Did WS treat AP better in someways? How?

[Fluttershy]

My opinion is that affairs happen. In all sorts of marriages and that how to define a good marriage, medicore marriage, or bad marriage is conpletely a matter of opinion. I don't think any marriageis affair proof or any person can know 100% their partner will never cheat. I don't think why people cheat can be a matter of one size fits all or fact. I think all marriages can be improved on and are a WIP. I don't believe cheaters are always a seperate species but sometimes a good person who makes a bad descision.

 

I already mentioned that he decieved me not her but I will say that in my situation there wasn't anything else he did better. So no injury adde to insult I guess you could say.

[HermioneG]

I'm sorry, but people don't step out on good marriages. They don't allow personal problems to cause them to ruin a good marriage. To think otherwise is to be at the risk of not understanding what marriage is supposed to be about.

 

See, you know what part in your marriage vows that says "for better or worse" ?? Yeah, that isn't just saying you should be there for your spouse even when they are at their worst..that is also saying YOU need to be there for your spouse and this marriage when you are at your worst.

 

I have to say I am worried at peoples need to believe their marriage was good even though they cheated or their partner did. That isn't healthy, that isn't a good way to heal.

 

See, there is zero ways infidelity is a personal problem only, because if the marriage is good the person will find other ways to deal with their problems other then stepping out of their marriage.

 

One thing I should clarify, I am not saying the fact a marriage isn't good means the marriage is BAD persay. So don't take that the wrong way. Since, some marriages can merely become what I call "passive". It's not a specifically bad marriage, they treat each other with respect, but..they are just going through the motions.

 

I used to think exactly as you did. Exactly.

 

I was wrong.

 

But don't take my word for it. Look for the researchers I listed above and read for yourself.

 

It's actually pretty disheartening.

 

But true.

[purplesorrow]

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Nobody can be 100% sure and a marriage can also have two good people, but sometimes the marriage itself can be lacking.

 

I also know that sometimes it is a good person who makes a bad choice, and for me I would honestly prefer it be a bad person. It's harder when the person is good, because you can usually see it in their eyes that they are truly sorry for what they did..and it can really mess with the mind of the BS.

 

I was cheated on in two relationships. The first was a girl I did love..but I also knew that she had a reputation for being "easy". She had also admitted she had cheated on past boyfriends, but told me she changed. She really hadn't changed though, when I found out she cheated I was upset. She too was upset and crying...for about 2 days. Then she was over it and already moving on(and moving in with a guy she cheated on). Now this hurt, but I have to say her cheating wasn't unexpected. In the end, she wasn't a good person..she was a manipulator.

 

The 2nd girl though was different. She knew I'd been cheated on and how it affected me, she would swear she'd never hurt me like that. This was a girl I trusted completely and I would never in a million years of thought she'd cheat..because she was a very good person. So when it happened, it was 1,000 times more devastating for me.

Did they both cheat because your relationships weren't good?

[HermioneG]

Well I respect if you feel you were wrong, but I don't think you were. I may check out some of those researchers, though I still know at the end of the day this is a matter of opinion.

 

I really wish you would read up on from the experts. It's eye opening, and when you look at the data ( not opinion), you'll see a very different picture than the one you are presenting.

 

I actually argued with my IC over this concept for a long time. A really long time. Because if it had something to do with the marriage, then it was something I could fix. I could exert control. I could do it.

 

It just isn't that way, in the end. Which I am now peaceful regarding. I understand. But at the time? It was devastating.

[purplesorrow]

Well, first keep in mind we were not married. We took no vows or anything. However, yes. The first girl, for instance, in my heart I knew something was off..that she probably was cheating. I feel if we had a good relationship I would of come to her and explained to her how I'm feeling so we could try to figure out some way to fix this issue..but I did not do that.

 

The second one..the one who truly shattered my heart into a billion pieces, cheated while drunk and that was her excuse. I feel if we had a truly good relationship it would of prevented her from cheating, but it did not.

But don't you keep relationships in good working order by discussing and solving issues? Why didn't you bring it up?

[HermioneG]

Turnpike-

 

In this thread, you have repeatedly invalidated the statements of former waywards who tell you that the reasons they cheated were internal, and not external, and you also blame external factors for your relationships that had infidelity.

 

You may want to think about why that is. As an observer, it's interesting.

[HermioneG]

If your girlfriend hit you, would you accept blame for that? Is it your fault she chose to hit you?

 

Or is it her faulty decision making?

[HermioneG]

I will probably check a few out, but I wouldn't say they would necessarily prove anything. How could they legitimately do that? They interview couples who went through cheating? Ask them questions? What did they do? Since sometimes people can be in denial about certain things, how would they even be sure this "data" was valid?

 

I actually argued with my IC over this concept for a long time. A really long time. Because if it had something to do with the marriage, then it was something I could fix. I could exert control. I could do it.

 

 

 

The problem is I still regard it as a problem with the marriage too, not just the person. Like I have said, can you deny that your husband/wife is supposed to be your partner? That you are supposed to be a team? Just like any team, when a member is having trouble it's up to the rest of the team to try to pick them up again. For better or worse applies to both people. If you can't maintain your vows because you have some personal issue, I feel that also reflects on the marriage. Since..you are supposed to be able to do that, in a good marriage you are supposed to be faithful no matter WHAT happens.

 

Partnership doesn't mean becoming a symbiotic enmeshment.

 

You don't lose your identity when you get married, and become psychic.

 

Enmeshment is a psychological concept which you are sort of describing. That's not actually a healthy relationship standard.

 

And yes- you are supposed to be a team. For sure. I totally agree. But working together as a team doesn't mean the other person becomes responsible for your emotional well being. Happiness and mental health are not externally derived. They are internal issues.

 

Some people cheat because of personality disorders, depression, entitlement, boredom with themselves( not their partners). In an ideal world- they would discuss those things with their spouse. But people who choose cheating as a coping skill by definition and nature don't do that. So the spouse isn't aware that this stuff is going on behind the scenes. You cannot be held responsible for what you don't know. You just cannot.

 

Up until I discovered my spouse's affair, I would have told anyone who told me he was cheating that they were a liar. There was absolutely no indication. At all. If you ask him- he'd tell you, then and now- it had nothing to do with our marriage. He had a problem. And one he did not share with me. Or anyone. And my story is not unique. It's been told in this thread multiple times.

[revelations]

Partnership doesn't mean becoming a symbiotic enmeshment.

 

You don't lose your identity when you get married, and become psychic.

 

Enmeshment is a psychological concept which you are sort of describing. That's not actually a healthy relationship standard.

 

And yes- you are supposed to be a team. For sure. I totally agree. But working together as a team doesn't mean the other person becomes responsible for your emotional well being. Happiness and mental health are not externally derived. They are internal issues.

 

Some people cheat because of personality disorders, depression, entitlement, boredom with themselves( not their partners). In an ideal world- they would discuss those things with their spouse. But people who choose cheating as a coping skill by definition and nature don't do that. So the spouse isn't aware that this stuff is going on behind the scenes. You cannot be held responsible for what you don't know. You just cannot.

 

Up until I discovered my spouse's affair, I would have told anyone who told me he was cheating that they were a liar. There was absolutely no indication. At all. If you ask him- he'd tell you, then and now- it had nothing to do with our marriage. He had a problem. And one he did not share with me. Or anyone. And my story is not unique. It's been told in this thread multiple times.

 

You are correct in that a married couple should act as a team and that each individual is responsible for their own happiness. However the actions of the other spouse does play a major roll in the happiness of the other spouse. Remember that we are in love with that spouse so when cheating occurs it does effect the other spouse. This is why stating that each is responsible for their own happiness is actually not accurate.

 

Think of it this way, if a woman that you do not know says that your ugly and creepy you probably would not think twice about it. However if your wife says this to you, then it will probably hurt you. This is because when we are in love, the perspective and what that person says or does has meaning to us. We value how they think of us, the respect and love we get from them. So when cheating happens it shatters us because we have been shown that our value to them is very low or nothing. Usually we were shocked because we did not know how low are value was and we still placed high value on that spouse.

 

So I would agree that a spouse is not reasonable for making you happy day to day. I would say that their actions can be responsible for making you unhappy. It is one of those subjects with a lot of grey area in it. This is why both men and women get upset at times if their WS treated the AP better in some way. Rather it be with gifts or going out to sexual acts performed. A BS then wants these things to at least try and feel that the AP is not special, which is a reasonable request. Truthfully the AP has already proven that the BS is not special and that the AP is special simply by cheating. Now I also agree that the WS does have something wrong with them. For the WS it may have nothing to do with what the BS has done or did not do. Even if this is the case, the BS will still be effected just because they are in love and this is a shock to them. Normally the feelings of less than or not being valued by the WS will continue when that WS has done something for the AP that is still refused to the BS. Now the WS is well within their rights to deny the BS anything they choose. However the BS is well within their rights to leave and seek out another that will meet their needs. With actions their are consequences.

[dichotomy]

 

Some people cheat because of personality disorders, depression, entitlement, boredom with themselves( not their partners). In an ideal world- they would discuss those things with their spouse. But people who choose cheating as a coping skill by definition and nature don't do that. So the spouse isn't aware that this stuff is going on behind the scenes. You cannot be held responsible for what you don't know. You just cannot.

 

Yes, this can the case....be just like any destructive behaviors, from adultery to drinking and drug use. I honestly believe my wife suffer(ed) from depression and character disorder and hid it well.

 

But we are off topic again.

[tornapart2002]

People step out on marriages that they, in their mind, said were bad and told their AP was bad. That does NOT mean the marriage itself was bad. I was sick for over a year, fighting to get my life back and that's when my WS started cheating. He was in a deep depression from the death of his father figure as well and perceived our marriage was over because I could not show him I loved him while i was up throwing up, having panic attacks for no reason, and trying to remember where I was from moment to moment due to various attempts to find out what was wrong with my health.

 

I understand, in some ways, what you are saying, but people DO indeed let their personal problems affect their marriages.You are ignorant (not dumb, mind you...just not understanding) to not know that. My husband's personal issues? Rejection from his mother for years turning into his perception that i was rejecting him when I was simply sick and even suicidal at one ponit to make it stop. Another issue...depression. Another issue..the need for attention from women that his mother never gave him.Did he let these issues come into our marriage and refuse to get help? Hell, yes, he did.

 

Did I ask him to get help? Hell, yes. Did he? Never. He refused. Sometimes I feel like what you are saying is that the affair is the fault of the BS....I've heard of many cases where a BS was sick or had surgery or in some other way not able to support the WS the way they thought they shold be be at that time.

 

As for the comment about marriage being a partnership, you are correct and if you ever get married, I hope you remember that.IT's what I'm focusing on now, as is my husband, who is finally getting help for his personal issues (so am I, by the way).

 

Thanks for making us all think some more on these issues, even if we don't all agree!

 

I'm sorry, but people don't step out on good marriages. They don't allow personal problems to cause them to ruin a good marriage. To think otherwise is to be at the risk of not understanding what marriage is supposed to be about.

 

See, you know what part in your marriage vows that says "for better or worse" ?? Yeah, that isn't just saying you should be there for your spouse even when they are at their worst..that is also saying YOU need to be there for your spouse and this marriage when you are at your worst.

 

I have to say I am worried at peoples need to believe their marriage was good even though they cheated or their partner did. That isn't healthy, that isn't a good way to heal.

 

See, there is zero ways infidelity is a personal problem only, because if the marriage is good the person will find other ways to deal with their problems other then stepping out of their marriage.

 

One thing I should clarify, I am not saying the fact a marriage isn't good means the marriage is BAD persay. So don't take that the wrong way. Since, some marriages can merely become what I call "passive". It's not a specifically bad marriage, they treat each other with respect, but..they are just going through the motions.

[tornapart2002]

I believe you are blaming her for not being able to make her husband talk to her, but that is a bit off topic of this thread, I guess.

 

I'm sorry, but you STILL are not getting this, so I don't know what else to tell you because you seem to have a weird definition of how marriage works. Your husband had issues with himself? Well, you are his wife! He should of discussed these with you. I know you aren't a therapist, but it doesn't mean you still can't listen to him and maybe try to help. So how can you not see how this is still a sign of the marriage?

 

I'm sorry if I make your head hurt, but I think it is because you want to ignore the reality of the situation, so I don't know what else to tell you.

[cozycottagelg]

A marriage can be great to one spouse and horrible to another...just something to think about.

 

When I first told my husband how terribly unhappy I was, he was blown away and had no idea it had gotten that bad. His needs were being met, mine were not.

 

This is why you need to look at the individual, and not the marriage as a whole in regards to infidelity.

[snappytomcat]

A marriage can be great to one spouse and horrible to another...just something to think about.

 

When I first told my husband how terribly unhappy I was, he was blown away and had no idea it had gotten that bad. His needs were being met, mine were not.

 

This is why you need to look at the individual, and not the marriage as a whole in regards to infidelity.

this is very true,but what can you do if you are very unhappy,and keep telling your hubby,we need counseling and he says nothings is wrong,hes happy just stressed from work,and it will get better.

you cant fix something when the other person is in denial about it,and im not the one who cheated.