Author dichotomy Posted May 17, 2014 Author Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) What does "affairyland" mean? Is this just your BS term to state that you think that this is all a joke and not real? This thread is filled with people with wishful thinking that things with the AP were less than they really were. That's what it is, in many cases - wishful thinking. Do and say whatever makes you all feel better. Thats about it. But more to the point - their are all types of relationships and all types of relationship "phases". Someone made a good point to compare the rush of the dating phase to the rush of an affair (affairlyand). I am not saying that affairs are not real or less - but in both affairlyland, or dating phase - their are chemicals and emotions flooding the brain which often do not last and cause people to behave differently than in long term relationships or marriage. This is also why some people are more "giving" or put their best efforts into some things with an AP (or with a dating partner) - rather than for their spouse. Also when a divorce happens and the WS ends up with AP - the "reality" or next phase of the relationship happens and things do change - often drastically. Statistically speaking - most people do not end up staying with AP after a divorce, or if they do it is not the same as the affair state (affaryland). I think both these points can help a WS cope. Edited May 17, 2014 by dichotomy
Author dichotomy Posted May 17, 2014 Author Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Yeah, the trauma thing was a red herring. I do agree in principle. If a WW willingly did something for the OM she doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. However, the fact that she let some frat boy do anal 20 years ago when she was drunk dies NOT mean her hubby can Lord it over ad insist she do it. Unless he's a selfish ass Janedoe67, I have read your story about your asexual husband, how you twisted and prayed and hoped he would find sexual passion for you, and your eventual affairs. It is/was heartbreaking to me to read. I have struggled with the twisting thing myself - but different situation. But along the lines of this thread of mine. I wonder - (this is total fantasy) if you found out later that your husband had an affair during that time as was a dynamo in the sack, several times a week, for another woman. That his asexuality was just because of how he felt or viewed you and/or being married? Or that another woman or the affair was what was needed to bring out this giving side of him....Would that have been a relief... or added to your pain. Edited May 17, 2014 by dichotomy 1
road Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 So if an experience was traumatic for a woman with someone else her husband is entitled to traumatised her to" get his share"? Nice Well let's see. The WW made a $h1t sandwich for her BH to eat by having a PA. Then the WW makes that sandwich into a double decker by refusing to give her BH what she gave the OM. Then the WW gets all indignant that the BH will not eat the $h1t sandwich alone. The WW was able to make that sandwich. She had no problem making that sandwich with the OM. She got herself off on making that sandwich. Yet the WW refuses to help her BH eat that sandwich. How dare the BH expect his WW to eat that sandwich with him (do with him what she did for the OM). 1
janedoe67 Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Janedoe67, I have read your story about your asexual husband, how you twisted and prayed and hoped he would find sexual passion for you, and your eventual affairs. It is/was heartbreaking to me to read. I have struggled with the twisting thing myself - but different situation. But along the lines of this thread of mine. I wonder - (this is total fantasy) if you found out later that your husband had an affair during that time as was a dynamo in the sack, several times a week, for another woman. That his asexuality was just because of how he felt or viewed you and/or being married? Or that another woman or the affair was what was needed to bring out this giving side of him....Would that have been a relief... or added to your pain. If it had been another woman I would have been shocked. And of course hurt. Another man would have made sense. Either way, I have too much....pride? to want a spouse to do something sexual for me simply because I made them feel they had to do it. As far as road's rant.....I think it was pretty obvious to anyone reading that I meant some past terrible experience and NOT something a woman willingly did with the OM. But by all means continue the 20 year rant.
revelations Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 I'm actually the exact opposite to this. For me casual sex (drunken or otherwise) has always been perfunctory, vanilla and utilitarian; get off, and get out. I'm only ever experimental and kinky with those I truly care about and trust. I can't be truly abandoned unless I feel safe. So if I get to this place in a relationship, I never deny my partner something I've done before. Because I invariably want to do it too; and more! If I don't want to... it's a sign to me that something's not right. That there is some element of the relationship stopping me from expressing my full sexual self with this partner. But that's just me. And we're all different! Truthfully this is exactly how I feel also. If I am with a woman that I love I am always wanting to give her my all. Now truthfully I don't keep tabs such as I did X so many time before so now I'll do it X this many more times. However the point is that if I am going to experiment or even do something I normally do not do, it will always be the one I am in a relationship with. I guess that is just one of my ways I express love. However I do find it very sad that other people are very dismissive of this. You can always tell when the reason is different than what they tell you. Mainly because they will say "that's childish", "that's selfish", "your insecure" and we can probably add a lot more on that list. I mean hey they may have enjoyed doing that sexual act with their affair partner or a previous lover and just do not want to cheapen the memory by doing that with their husband. After all, it is usually the AP or a previous lover that is special and not the husband or current lover. No matter the reason it does not fly with me unless for some reason it causes pain or she did it once and decided never to do it again with a good reason. However it is shameful that people like this choose to try and belittle, shame and guilt others that do not share their same viewpoint. I just know it is something I don't have to worry about since they will never even be on a date with me. No way in hell would women like this be in my bedroom. So ladies, try and shame and guilt all you want. That is the way I see it and your opinion on this means nothing to me.
revelations Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Hey everyone. Not to sound all moderator'ish (just call me William jr )- but the last parts of this thread we have deviated off Affair behavior to past single life behavior, thats a whole other thread - and one that has been discussed many many times here on LS (past sex life) I know why this happened as for many men sex or sex acts = how special and loved we feel to our women, and so we follow this line of thinking back before the marriage to past single partners.........but thats not what this thread is about .......this thread is only for affair behavior - which is much more clear cut. Sorry I may have derailed it a bit myself. However that is because I have had this happen in both areas, girlfriends past and of course girlfriend and wife cheating. So again please accept my apology.
purplesorrow Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 "I agree with this, people can tell themselves it was less then it really was, but the reality is..the person would not be cheating on you with someone unless they found them better. If you have a spouse..you already have someone to have sex with. So going to someone else clearly says that they are better, since you can already get sex from your spouse." Yes, this explains it all! The ap is always better. Please then help me understand that very strange phenomenon of the WS trying to stay with their less than spouse? I gave my husband the easy walk away offer to be with the ow, you know, the better one. A year later and he still isn't with her. What a horrible jab to bs on this forum who are already hurting. 3
Furious Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 So do you think your WS treated AP better in certain ways? For BH's often the answer is better sex (she did xxx with him), but I think I have read numerous other examples. I think I am struggling years later with triggers of anger than I don't get treated as well in some areas as OM/MM was. In fact I get worse in some ways. Yet comparing a long marriage to an affair (affairlyland) is not the same - it is kind of like comparing dating phase to marriage phase. Yet I still trigger over this and it causes issues. I see it as having company over for dinner. You know....the crisply ironed tablecloth, the flowers for the table, the appetizers, fine wine, that 15 pound rib roast in the oven, the scalloped potatoes and julienned vegetables, and lets not forget the dessert of chocolate cheese cake and raspberry coulis, coffee and a brandy. You could say the guests were treated better than the family, you know the family who eats meat loaf on Monday and leftovers on Tuesday... Affairs are a special gourmet meal, but who has the time and energy to cook and serve such a meal everyday day of the week. My analogy is, sure the affair partner is treated special, it's easy to be all that and a bag of chips if it's not 24/7. 2
veritas lux mea Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Well the thing of it is..they feel the sex is better, etc. but probably not the person itself..so that is why they go back. Since let us face it, the person they are with is more or less trash..unless the person has no idea the other person is in a relationship, but most of the time they do know. So why would they want to actually be with them? Also I don't get why you said this was a horrible jab at BS's. This is a topic about if they treated the AP better, so why is it a horrible jab? I'm talking about the issues the topic is about. I am sorry for what your husband did, honestly I think you should of divorced him. I don't know your situation, maybe you have kids,etc. and don't want to divorce now..then wait until they all turn 18 and then do it. Good ol' blanket statements that are no where near true for all cases. Sex with xMM I realized later wasn't "better" than dex with my H. The whole package deal just made it titillating. xMM was also out to please like boyfriend sex. It is a myth that affairs always have to do with the mariatal situation. Sometimes it is the affair that damages the marriage. xMM was never someone I wanted a future with. Even in a hypothetical, we both single, situation. 4
purplesorrow Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Well the thing of it is..they feel the sex is better, etc. but probably not the person itself..so that is why they go back. Since let us face it, the person they are with is more or less trash..unless the person has no idea the other person is in a relationship, but most of the time they do know. So why would they want to actually be with them? Also I don't get why you said this was a horrible jab at BS's. This is a topic about if they treated the AP better, so why is it a horrible jab? I'm talking about the issues the topic is about. I am sorry for what your husband did, honestly I think you should of divorced him. I don't know your situation, maybe you have kids,etc. and don't want to divorce now..then wait until they all turn 18 and then do it. Because you just told people they were cheated on that their spouse's ap was better! Yes, that is a cheap shot. I just started a post saying I wish his ow would have been worth it. From reading their conversations, the sex wasn't all that for either of them. She wanted a husband, he wanted a live blow up doll... Not a very good match. 2
purplesorrow Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Exactly, you thought the guy was better. I don't think it matters if later you say you realized he wasn't, but I think the damage is already done one you think the other guy is better. Getting all turned on and "titillated" by some other man when you are married just shows a lack of love to me. You have a husband at home who can do those things and if you are unhappy with you sex life then you talk it out and try to fix it and if the guy refuses then you leave. I don't even know what you mean by this. Of course they have to do with marital situations. I don't see how you can say otherwise. If someone cheats on their partner that means there is a problem in the relationship. People in truly happy and good relationships don't cheat, so if someone is cheating there is a problem somewhere. Part of marriage is being open about your problems and talking them out. When you decide to cheat instead of doing that..yes, that is a marital situation. Of course the affair damages the marriage, but the cheating happened because there is a problem somewhere, and you should of discussed the problem before cheating, this..yeah, it is both. The cheating is a sign something is not right. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying most cheaters want to leave their partner and go be with the other person. Most of the time they don't because cheaters are selfish, they want to have their cake and eat it too. You may want to run this by my WH! He said from day one it had nothing to do with me nor our marriage. It was all his issues that he has been in therapy to work on. If this theory is true, why didn't both people cheat? This implies there is such a thing as a perfect relationship. Just not possible with 2 imperfect people. The cheating is a sign something isn't right with the WS. An affair is not the way one should deal with marital problems. You make my head hurt, please stop . 3
purplesorrow Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 I still don't understand your problem, I find your response to be unfair. The topic is about if AP's are treated better, etc. I voiced my opinion about it. I feel yes, they do view the other person as better, sexually at least. Later on they may realize that wasn't the case, but the damage is already done by even thinking that. So I can understand if you don't agree, but I can't see how you can get upset when I'm talking about the thing the topic is about. Also you talk about the sex not being good, well if the sex wasn't good then why continue it? Sounds like a lame excuse. That to me would be worse actually in some ways. You cheat, you risk your family, you betray your partner..all for some lame sex with some scumbag? Yeah, not good. Well they weren't writing that stuff hoping I would read it. If wasn't what they thought it should be, it just wasn't. Affairs are lame.
veritas lux mea Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Exactly, you thought the guy was better. I don't think it matters if later you say you realized he wasn't, but I think the damage is already done one you think the other guy is better. Getting all turned on and "titillated" by some other man when you are married just shows a lack of love to me. You have a husband at home who can do those things and if you are unhappy with you sex life then you talk it out and try to fix it and if the guy refuses then you leave. I don't even know what you mean by this. Of course they have to do with marital situations. I don't see how you can say otherwise. If someone cheats on their partner that means there is a problem in the relationship. People in truly happy and good relationships don't cheat, so if someone is cheating there is a problem somewhere. Part of marriage is being open about your problems and talking them out. When you decide to cheat instead of doing that..yes, that is a marital situation. Of course the affair damages the marriage, but the cheating happened because there is a problem somewhere, and you should of discussed the problem before cheating, this..yeah, it is both. The cheating is a sign something is not right. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying most cheaters want to leave their partner and go be with the other person. Most of the time they don't because cheaters are selfish, they want to have their cake and eat it too. No I did not think he was better. It was different sex not better. And the only reason it was even good for me was because of the whole package. That is what I realize now. And nope, affairs happen sometimes because we are still individuals when we marry and we have individual issues that come up. It is just rediculous to think there must always have been soemthing wrong in the marriage. But my affair did cause issues. See what I mean? Cheating then mariatel problems. Marriages aren't the end all be all of being an individual. Sometimes your spouse will have problems and issues that have bothin to do with you or your marriage. And all you can do is be there for them. Or smack them upside the head if needed.
purplesorrow Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 I'm sorry, but you STILL are not getting this, so I don't know what else to tell you because you seem to have a weird definition of how marriage works. Your husband had issues with himself? Well, you are his wife! He should of discussed these with you. I know you aren't a therapist, but it doesn't mean you still can't listen to him and maybe try to help. So how can you not see how this is still a sign of the marriage? I'm sorry if I make your head hurt, but I think it is because you want to ignore the reality of the situation, so I don't know what else to tell you. Exactly, HE should have discussed them. HE did not, how is that MY fault? When I had issues I went to him because after 12 years of marriage, I kinda had a clue that is how it should work. 1
veritas lux mea Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Look, I'm not going to argue with you about this specific point. Whatever you need to tell yourself, that is fine. Whatever is working for you and helping you rebuild what you destroyed. Nope, sorry, if you feel this way then you have no idea what marriage is truly about. Yes people have personal issues, ANYTHING you have has to do with your marriage because when you got married you became partners. His problems are your problems too. Your problems are his problems too. That is how marriage is supposed to work, you help and support each other, you go to each other if you are having issues and need support, but you don't cheat. I am not saying cheating is right. I am just saying you don't know how every affair comes about. Chicken or egg situation. In my marriage the actual marital problem came because I had an affair. I didn't even know I was going to until I did so I had no idea I needed to share it. And then I did and that is when everything went to sht. But maybe some people think they got every and all situations figured out and know everything. But I would advice you not to be so patronizing with your "whatever helps you sleep". Because you don't know me, my POv, what I was thinking or feeling so you can't know if xMM was better than my H. Betraying my H aside, I treated him far better than my AP in everything else. Of course here the only thing that matters is infidelity. And I get that. I did wrong. But if we are talking, words of love, menial acts of service, fighting, praising, funky sex moves, gifts, time. I did not give any of those to my AP in my situation. 2
harrybrown Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Was xMM better than your H? if so how? Have you shared this with your H? However, so far , your H is better than the xMM. He did not cheat with a married woman. Your H is way ahead of xMM. And if he will cheat with you, you will cheat on you. 1
purplesorrow Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 But again you miss the point. I'm not saying you are to blame, but for whatever reason he felt he could not come to you. I don't know why, it may of been something you did unintentionally, it might be a subconscious thing. Make no mistake, when I say maybe you did something unintentionally to cause him to not want to share, I am still NOT blaming you for it. I just feel he should of came to you and talked about why it is hard for him to open up. That is why I still call it a marital problem, you are not to blame, but as I said..his problems are yours, and vice versa. You are a team, not a solo act. People in good, bad and ugly marriages cheat. Marital problems are just that, marital problems. Poor coping skills on dealing with said marital problems are all on the WS. I can't believe you are married? To the op, my apologies for going down this rabbit hole on your post. Please forgive the off topic rant. 1
veritas lux mea Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 But again you miss the point. I'm not saying you are to blame, but for whatever reason he felt he could not come to you. I don't know why, it may of been something you did unintentionally, it might be a subconscious thing. Make no mistake, when I say maybe you did something unintentionally to cause him to not want to share, I am still NOT blaming you for it. I just feel he should of came to you and talked about why it is hard for him to open up. That is why I still call it a marital problem, you are not to blame, but as I said..his problems are yours, and vice versa. You are a team, not a solo act. Maybe he didn't know he had a problem? I think your trying a little too hard to get your point accross. We simply disagree as it appears to be a lot of splitting hairs. 1
road Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 I am not saying cheating is right. I am just saying you don't know how every affair comes about. Chicken or egg situation. In my marriage the actual marital problem came because I had an affair. I didn't even know I was going to until I did so I had no idea I needed to share it. And then I did and that is when everything went to sht. But maybe some people think they got every and all situations figured out and know everything. But I would advice you not to be so patronizing with your "whatever helps you sleep". Because you don't know me, my POv, what I was thinking or feeling so you can't know if xMM was better than my H. Betraying my H aside, I treated him far better than my AP in everything else. Of course here the only thing that matters is infidelity. And I get that. I did wrong. But if we are talking, words of love, menial acts of service, fighting, praising, funky sex moves, gifts, time. I did not give any of those to my AP in my situation. What did you give your AP?
janedoe67 Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 What did you give your AP? You are not her BH, so that's actually none of your business.
veritas lux mea Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 What did you give your AP? Sex. And then a whole lot of headache when I told his wife. 2
AmyBamy Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Affair sex and the affair itself is new, unique, secretive all which elevate it's standing to the wandering spouse. There are no expectations from an affair partner besides be there when they are needed from wandering spouse. How can the affair partner look anything but awesome compared to actual realistic life circumstances. Affairs and affair sex take place inside the minds of those that engage in them. Funny when an affair is busted up and time presents itself few report that it was really all that great. It was the secrecy and thrill of getting caught that made the affair exciting not the people in most cases. I have heard no one say to me that was in an affair after the fog was lifted that affair partner was so awesome in bed. I have heard them discuss certain sex acts which may be thrilling but is it the sex or the affair. My money is on the affair due to the things listed in my first sentence. Even broccoli seems awesome if you eat pizza everyday What about long term affairs? I read a lot of stories here about years and years. So that affair is broccoli now too isn't it? If it's not then what is different about it? Something must be to keep it going. I think this might apply to very short term affairs but long term affairs show that this is not the case.
veritas lux mea Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 I find this silly, people in good marriages do NOT CHEAT, period. It just doesn't happen. If you cheat and you feel you had a good marriage then that is some serious denial going on. I don't care what problems you have, you won't be sleeping with another person if your marriage is good and it is not a good sign if a cheater actually feels their marriage is good, that is a huge red flag. I'm not married, but even I understand marriages are supposed to be partnerships. Stop discounting other people's experiences that differ from your narrowminded ideas. You have no idea what goes on in every single marriage. It is arrogence to think you do. There is no such thing as a perfect marriage. And an affair is a reality in every single one. But there are bad marriages and then there are good marriages. My marriage was normal. Not perfect but good and no issues that had anything to do with me cheating until I cheated. 2
HermioneG Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) I find this silly, people in good marriages do NOT CHEAT, period. It just doesn't happen. If you cheat and you feel you had a good marriage then that is some serious denial going on. I don't care what problems you have, you won't be sleeping with another person if your marriage is good and it is not a good sign if a cheater actually feels their marriage is good, that is a huge red flag. I'm not married, but even I understand marriages are supposed to be partnerships. You have no idea how much I wish a happy marriage was an innoculation against cheating. It isn't. Unfortunately, infidelity is a personal problem, not a marital one. And to think otherwise is to be at risk of missing a lot of important understanding. It would be a good point to start researching it- I suggest the authors Shirley Glass, Frank Pittman, Helen Fisher and John Gottman. Again, I totally wish you were right. If you were, then I would not be a betrayed spouse. Sigh. Edited May 18, 2014 by HermioneG 2
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