Did WS treat AP better in someways? How?

[gettingstronger]

I agree with Purplesorrow-the main thing she got that I did not was the truth as it pertains to the A- thats a hard pill to swallow for me-

[Buckeye2]

Ding Ding Ding - we have a winner.

 

One of the major reasons behind some (i did not say all or many) women giving blatant sex or blatant honesty to their OM. Because they can be free to expose that side of themselves without being judged. They have to hold back in their good marriages and with their good husband.

 

Yes it does get you down - that giving in ways they dont for BS. Its what bums me out too.

 

Exactly correct. In the affair environment everyone has agreed to break the rules and have given each other a pass.

 

It’s like being at a party where everyone is drunk. One drunk can’t judge another. Sober people you see at church would think poorly of you if they knew.

 

Plus, you can get away from the people at the party that saw you do stupid things but you are stuck with your family. This is the basis of “what happens in Vagas stays in Vagas.”

 

Doing things with the AP that you don’t do with your spouse isn’t always about the liberation and passion of the affair environment.

 

I have a friend whose wife thought oral sex was disgusting and had no problem telling her husband “no.” Her affair with the OM was like dating again and she thought oral sex was expected.

 

She succumbed to the social pressure, gave it a try and it wasn’t as bad as she expected. My friend caught her, the affair ended and now he gets BJs.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Buckeye2

[dichotomy]

I have a friend whose wife thought oral sex was disgusting and had no problem telling her husband “no.” Her affair with the OM was like dating again and she thought oral sex was expected.

 

 

Yep - its expected so it is given.

 

There was a second hand story someone shared here about a guy friend - a married guy friend - who did not want to divorce, mainly because if he was single he would have to put more effort in to pleasing various women - more than he does for his wife... and he was not up for that amount of giving or effort - so he preferred staying in the marriage and slacking - cause he could

[Buckeye2]

She had OM pouring all his attention on her giving her the validation and emotional support. She shared intimate details of her life.

 

Interesting on the emotional/intimate part for man, but I get that too. She was way more honest and open with OM then me.

 

This is how affairs rob a marriage. Poor communication is often given as a reason for the affair.

 

Once the affair starts communication with the spouse is sabotaged. The APs have no secrets from each other and can be open and honest. They can even discuss problems with the marriage that should be discussed with their spouse.

 

Communication with the spouse is now guarded because you have to be careful not to let something slip. A question as simple as: “How was your day” requires thought and caution before answering.

 

The WS feels even less comfortable with their spouse because they feel guilty. To make themselves feel less guilty they are motivated to make a list of things wrong with their spouse even if it requires blowing some things out of proportion.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Communication with the spouse is now guarded because you have to be careful not to let something slip. A question as simple as: “How was your day” requires thought and caution before answering.

 

The WS feels even less comfortable with their spouse because they feel guilty. To make themselves feel less guilty they are motivated to make a list of things wrong with their spouse even if it requires blowing some things out of proportion.

 

Exactly. During my wife's affair she shut me out due to guilt. I kept asking her what was wrong, what was going on? I got empty answers.

 

During the affair the AP did get treated better than me. The AP got sex, fun dates, quality time, and her warm personality. I got cold silence the little time she spent in my presence. It became so bad that I began to ponder divorce solely on the way she had been treating me during the Holidays. (I didn't even know about the affair). It was soon after I communicated this to her that she broke off her affair. That woke her up.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Betrayed&Stayed

[tornapart2002]

You mean by talking to her and texting her when he was at work but making me feel like **** when I contacted him? Or how about letting her know that our marriage was over before I even knew. Yeah....there you go.

 

So do you think your WS treated AP better in certain ways?

 

For BH's often the answer is better sex (she did xxx with him), but I think I have read numerous other examples.

 

I think I am struggling years later with triggers of anger than I don't get treated as well in some areas as OM/MM was. In fact I get worse in some ways. Yet comparing a long marriage to an affair (affairlyland) is not the same - it is kind of like comparing dating phase to marriage phase. Yet I still trigger over this and it causes issues.

[Spark1111]

It's a terrible cycle isn't it? The more obsessed they become with the AP, the more distant and cold they grow with their spouse. That't the classic triangle and much as been written about it.

 

And it is horribly addictive, isn't it?

 

I liken an affair to that perfect and perpetual third date: Everyone is perfectly groomed putting their very best effort forward to be, not necessarily their TRUE selves, but a combination of the personna they WISH they were and WHATEVER the AP wants them to be.

 

And there is nothing that intrudes on that fantasy; no bills, kids, obligations, in-laws.

 

It is risk-free in that no cheater believes they will be caught AND they can be, role-play any aspect of their personality that mirrors adoration in their lover's eyes.

 

Think about it. We have all been in love, but was it ever necessary to text 300 times?

 

that's not love. That's addiction.

 

She's getting emotional needs met, he's getting physical needs met and they tell each other they are two unhappy, misunderstood, unappreciated, perfect people like Romeo and Juliette.....sigh.

 

After DDAY, when confronted or exposed and facing real life consequences....95% throw the AP under the bus and try to return to the spouse.

 

Why? they never truly wanted the AP forever. They wanted the fantasy of who they ALLOWED themselves to be with the AP.

[Spark1111]

Of course they treat the AP better, since they aren't cheating and utterly betraying and making a damn fool out of them. They aren't lying to them every day or spending their money while making total fools of them. So yeah, better treatment all around.

 

The worst thing though is when they do sexual things for them they hate doing for you. That to me would be grounds for divorce right there, even if she wasn't cheating on me..if in the past in relationships she is willing to do some stuff with one dude, but in the present day not with me? Okay then, she can go be with him then. I know some will say "oh maybe she experimented in her younger days" or something, but that is non-sense, why can't she experiment with me too?

 

I dated a woman who hated doing oral and would never do it or even want to do it. Then I find out in the past she did it all the time for some guy. I say, why not for me? She responds "Oh I was just trying to do anything I could to please him". So, then I ask "so you want to please that dude, but not me?" and she responds with "that is not how I meant it" but that sure as heck seemed like what she was saying. Sorry, if you can stand doing it all the time for some other dude, you can compromise and do it for me every once in a while. I broke up with her shortly after that, told her she can go be with her experimental buddy she loved pleasing so much. Sorry..I kind of went off on a tangent there, but that type of stuff just ticks me off. It is one thing if you did something ONCE for another guy, hated it, and never did it again, but if you did it routinely for him? Then you can suck it up(no pun intended) and do it for me. If you can't? Do not sit there and say you "love me".

 

I know men hate to hear this, women too, but do not get hung up on it.

 

It is a sign that she cared less for him, not more.

 

If it was terrible oral, or she truly didn't like it that much, she may have done it because she was NOT that invested in the relationship emotionally.....did not care all that much...so it was a WTH...If I fail or am lacking, so what?

 

We feel often too acutely our performance with those we care too much for. We sense their disappointment, judgement, emotions, and are hurt to the core by their complaints, criticisms, desires we are not fulfilling....so often AVOID the discussion, the initiation, the act....

 

Affairs can be like that drunken ONS, over and over and over again. I will give myself permission to do or try anything because I may never see you again. So if I disappoint you, have clumsy skills, do not please, or perform an act I truly do not enjoy....so what? YOU, the AP, cannot really hurt me. I have few expectations of seeing you again or building a future with you.

 

The constant uncertainty, and lack of reality, make this a wild-abandon, go-for-broke, fantasy event....risk-free of rejection. because IF you dump me, it is because you or I are married and NOT because you rejected me, personally.

 

perfect proving, experimental ground for the insecure.

 

Strangers versus loved ones. Loved ones can hurt us with judgement and anger.

 

Strangers? Who gives a crap? At least, that is how it starts....

[revelations]

Turnpike99,

Their is no way that I could agree with you more on this. I have had girlfriends that would do all kinds of kinky stuff with their past lovers yet refuse this to me. Hell I even told my xWW about this and how it bother me. Her responds was her and her girlfriend performed my fantasy threesome for another man over a three day weekend. Of course she was not going to do even one night of this for me and damn sure not a long weekend. However this is the typical result of when they use you and have to respect for you, damn sure don't love you.

 

I have found that their are typically four reasons for women to do this. I'll list them out below. Mind you these may not be the only reasons, just what I have gathered with the research that I have done.

 

First is the Madonna/whore complex. This is probably the most common where she wants to maintain a certain image with you, so behaves like the shy housewife. However loves to do all them kinky things and will only do it with other guys that she does not care about. Now as you can tell this is a bad combo. Because she enjoys doing the kinky things, yet feels that she cannot do them with you means eventually she will seek out someone else.

 

Second is usually something physical. Maybe too well endowed or not enough endowment, or bad smell, even looks. I have know some women not to perform oral because of looks of the penis or an unpleasant smell. I have known women to love anal with another lover, however reject doing it at all with another just because of the guys size. Truthfully this is one I might give a pass to knowing that it can cause a lot of pain. However because of looks or smell, well nope. You can wash it and if you don't like how it looks then why would you put it inside of you anyway.

 

Third is for control over you. This one here is usually easy to spot, she is always jealous. However she will tell you her stories of her doing them kinky things for others and not with you. This is to chip away at your self-esteem so that you feel that no other woman would want you. Normally these women will not cheat unless they feel that they have you completely beaten down. These women resemble a psychopath a lot, however the reason for what they are doing differs greatly. They do not seek to cause pain. The pain is just a byproduct of what they want which is control over you.

 

Last one is uncommon, however they are out their. That is because she is a psychopath. Often times when we hear the word psychopath we think of some serial killer. However this is actually rare for a psychopath to be a killer. Usually a psychopath is very intelligent and they know how to string their victims along. The psychopath gets pleasure from causing you pain. They understand what they have told you or did hurts so they keep doing it. Usually with a woman she will give you the promise of performing such a kinky sexual request, however never does it. She will usually tell you stories of doing this with others or cheat and do this with the OM. Usually she will have a few OM's that she has cheated on you with and will do these kinky things with them. Usually you can tell these women by doing a simple observation. Once you have told them that you want to do this kinky thing and are upset because she refuses to just wait. Soon she will repeat her story of that kinky act, however each time the story will become more detailed. You will find that she will focus on how great it was or how much fun it was, even throw in that it is too bad you will never be able to do this. Each time the story will be longer, more detail and she may even add in new stuff. Watch her face, she will often show an expression of happiness while telling her story to you, as if she is fondly remembering the event. Truth is that she is not actually reminiscing about, rather that she is getting joy from causing you pain. Truthfully this is a woman that you always RUN, not walk away from. These women will do this and much more such as cheating, filing false DV or sexual crime cases against you, humiliate you, and a number of other things. Again run, don't walk away from this.

 

Now no matter what the reason is their is something you have to remember. That is that you have the right to set what your standards are and no one can tell you that it is wrong. Mind you it may not be realistic as in wanting to find a 40 year old virgin or something. However your standard is for you and you only. To give you a perfect example of this and I am sure you have heard this before. That is when you are told "it's her body (or my body) and I have the right to use it anyway I want". That statement is, in itself very true. She does have every right to do all sorts of kinky things with other men, while with you be very vanilla. Is what she and most other people forget is that you have the same right also. This means that you have the right to say "well take care, I want a woman that will give me everything and not just the scraps".

 

Myself I am just usually upfront about this. I state that to me it shows that I am being settled for and not worth the effort she has put in with other men. I warn them that if I find out for example they did a threesome before me and has refused this to me, that I will walk without even talking about it. So yes to me, anything she has done in the past with others should be available to me, maybe not all the time but at least once or twice. Lying or omitting it (which is still a lie) is something I do not tolerate at all. I may give a pass on "I tried it once and hated it", however it is only if she stopped in the middle and never did it again. If she did it more than once, then I call bullsh*t. I will tell you that most women I have known do not like this standard. They have no clue why this would be so important to a guy. I usually explain it by saying

"well it is kind of like if I was to never give you a birthday gift, maybe only a card. You may think that I just do not celebrate birthdays so you accept that. Then you find out that my past girlfriends got really nice gifts on their birthdays, such as jewelry or perfume. This would probably upset you, leaving you feel like your not worth much to me".

However the trouble is that often times even with giving the example I am still dismissed. The one I love the most is being told I am insecure. However if she caught me banging her best friend and I stated that she is just insecure because her friend may be better, then it would be seen as an insult and not an observation.

 

Most women that I have encountered seem to have a lot of double standards for me and themselves. To them it is perfectly normal to do that kinky stuff with another guy and not with you. However you had better treat her a lot better than any other woman in your past. This is one of the reasons I avoid relationships at all anymore. I just do not need to make myself feel second best to her past lovers or the one she is cheating with. For me if I want to have a woman for a little while to have some fun with I can simply rent one. No worries, no fuss, just a good time without all the trouble that comes with a relationship. The thing is that it is not wrong to have a standard or what is acceptable and unacceptable to you. Is what is wrong is to compromise that standard because you are being shamed into thinking that you are wrong. That standard may be anything from I get all the kinky things the other guys did to as basic as no cheating. After all if she has certain standards don't we usually go by them? If she tells me she has a problem with me going to a strip club I just don't go anymore. So agreeing to what you need from each other in a relationship is a great thing. However just like you, she should also respect your standards.

[janedoe67]

Wow. I was a sex and affection starved wife and even I feel sick after reading THAT

[revelations]

janedoe67

Well trust me I did not like living with the fact that my xWW would do something like that for another man and refuse it to me. I imagine that for you it would be even more confusing if your a woman that would never even think of doing such a thing. However for me that is why it is a deal breaker for me. Now truthfully I apply the same standard to myself short of harming myself, I.E. marriage. So any woman I have been in a relationship has never said "Well you gave her oral, why not me?".

 

I will say to all the women reading this, is if you make sure your husband gets all the kinky stuff you did for others and more then you rock in my book.

[janedoe67]

So if an experience was traumatic for a woman with someone else her husband is entitled to traumatised her to" get his share"? Nice

[Owl6118]

So if an experience was traumatic for a woman with someone else her husband is entitled to traumatised her to" get his share"? Nice

 

I think this is one of those unresolvable, tragic dichotomies that some affair scenarios can create.

 

It is not an unreasonable thing if a man is unable to get over the idea that his partner offered her OM sex acts that she had never offered to him and will still not contemplate with him. It creates a feeling of being second choice, second best, and not an object of real desire that would be brutally hard to overcome.

 

It is also and equally not an unreasonable thing for a woman (or man) to withhold consent to a sex act she would find traumatic.

 

These are both valid. If both are strongly held in one reconciliation scenario, there may just be no road forward for that couple. It's not that either is wrong. It just a case in which things got broken that can't be put back together.

[painfullyobvious]

Affair sex and the affair itself is new, unique, secretive all which elevate it's standing to the wandering spouse. There are no expectations from an affair partner besides be there when they are needed from wandering spouse. How can the affair partner look anything but awesome compared to actual realistic life circumstances. Affairs and affair sex take place inside the minds of those that engage in them.

 

Funny when an affair is busted up and time presents itself few report that it was really all that great. It was the secrecy and thrill of getting caught that made the affair exciting not the people in most cases. I have heard no one say to me that was in an affair after the fog was lifted that affair partner was so awesome in bed. I have heard them discuss certain sex acts which may be thrilling but is it the sex or the affair. My money is on the affair due to the things listed in my first sentence. Even broccoli seems awesome if you eat pizza everyday

[janedoe67]

I can attest that the "affair sex" in my situation was just..plain old sex. The main thing that made it good was that it existed, as opposed to my touchless, sexless marriage.

 

Honestly, with my H, I would have dressed as a furry, spoken Klingon, and worn a strap on while on a rooftop had I thought it would make him actually WANT to be near me.

[revelations]

So if an experience was traumatic for a woman with someone else her husband is entitled to traumatised her to" get his share"? Nice

 

Hmm, once again on the attack, typical. Now trauma was never said in my statement. I do believe that I was talking about stuff that the wife had willingly done for others (be it affair sex or not) and now refuses her husband.

Now how is it that it is okay to do something for others yet it becomes traumatic to do it for the husband? I mean to me that is very confusing. Hell I think that on an earlier post here I gave an out for not liking something. However you do it multiple times for another guy then you are not selling me on the trauma bullsh*t.

[violet1]

Hmm, once again on the attack, typical. Now trauma was never said in my statement. I do believe that I was talking about stuff that the wife had willingly done for others (be it affair sex or not) and now refuses her husband.

Now how is it that it is okay to do something for others yet it becomes traumatic to do it for the husband? I mean to me that is very confusing. Hell I think that on an earlier post here I gave an out for not liking something. However you do it multiple times for another guy then you are not selling me on the trauma bullsh*t.

This is exactly why I don't believe in discussing sexual past in detail. I'm not talking about affair sex here. Everyone is different. Just because someone has done x or y in their past with someone and not with you it doesn't mean that person doesn't love you. Everyone's bodies are different and fit differently with other people. I've done things in my past with others that I would never do with my H. I'm sure he's done things with others that he hasn't done with me. I don't see it as a big deal and luckily neither does my H. I do get being upset that a WW would do oral with an AP and not her H, but in a normal dating relationship, the sexual past is irrelevant. It really makes no sense to be upset that a woman did something with her ex bf that she didn't do with you.

[jnel921]

Let's not get it twisted....As a BW I have never classified this behavior as better. It's inappropriate....period!

[janedoe67]

Yeah, the trauma thing was a red herring.

 

I do agree in principle. If a WW willingly did something for the OM she doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.

 

However, the fact that she let some frat boy do anal 20 years ago when she was drunk dies NOT mean her hubby can Lord it over ad insist she do it.

 

Unless he's a selfish ass

[revelations]

Turnpike99,

 

Awesome retort. You did a good job of flagging key lines that are total bullsh*t. Hey I am the same way, she tried X,Y,Z once 10yrs ago and did not like it or it would cause her pain to do it with you is one thing, hell I'll give a pass on that. After all sex should be about fun in a relationship or marriage. Now if she did X,Y,Z with others a few times or more then does not want to do this with her hubby or lover, well let's face it some if not most men would be upset by this.

 

After all if you break it down what would be the reason to do this? I mean you may not do it all the time but once in a while should not be a problem. I bet it would be a problem if you gave expensive jewelry or did certain chores for a past lover and not your current lover or wife. I mean hell I posted that I would never or marry or be in a relationship again and the women here had their pitch forks out and rope and was ready to burn me at the stake for speaking such heresy.

 

So I guess the point is that their is a double standard. That double standard is that her standards are the only one that matters. Thankfully that is just with most of the women on here. I have ran into a lot of women in real life that would never even think of doing such a thing. At the most they may prefer to do a certain sexual act with one lover more than another, however nothing was off the table. I mean hell I would never deny a woman that I am with a sexual act that I did with another. I may not want to do it all the time, however she would get it. Oh and before you women get your pitchforks out again let me point out I also said short of being painful, and to me yes marriage is painful as well as harmful to my retirement. So yes their is a reason why that is totally off the table. If you won't do anal because it is painful with me I can respect that, however you need to respect the fact that marriage is painful to me. Hmm, I guess I just get tired of the bullsh*t that is posted on here at times. Anyhow great retort Turnpike99, I look forward to reading more of your posts.

[SolG]

Affairs can be like that drunken ONS, over and over and over again. I will give myself permission to do or try anything because I may never see you again. So if I disappoint you, have clumsy skills, do not please, or perform an act I truly do not enjoy....so what? YOU, the AP, cannot really hurt me. I have few expectations of seeing you again or building a future with you...

 

Strangers versus loved ones. Loved ones can hurt us with judgement and anger.

 

Strangers? Who gives a crap? At least, that is how it starts....

 

I'm actually the exact opposite to this. For me casual sex (drunken or otherwise) has always been perfunctory, vanilla and utilitarian; get off, and get out. I'm only ever experimental and kinky with those I truly care about and trust. I can't be truly abandoned unless I feel safe.

 

So if I get to this place in a relationship, I never deny my partner something I've done before. Because I invariably want to do it too; and more! If I don't want to... it's a sign to me that something's not right. That there is some element of the relationship stopping me from expressing my full sexual self with this partner.

 

But that's just me. And we're all different!

[Hope Shimmers]

What does "affairyland" mean? Is this just your BS term to state that you think that this is all a joke and not real?

 

This thread is filled with people with wishful thinking that things with the AP were less than they really were. That's what it is, in many cases - wishful thinking. Do and say whatever makes you all feel better.

[Arieswoman]

You are asking a very difficult question, Dichotomy, as most WSs don't have the full picture, so it's difficult to make comparisons.

 

It also depends on your definition of "better".

 

I agree with those that said the AP had the advantage of knowledge (of the BS's existence) and could therefore make a choice about entering into/continuing the affair - but then they had to deal with the guilt.

 

In my situation my WS was more communicative with his AP , as he all but shut down any communication with me entirely during the time the affair was progressing. When I asked what was wrong I was told I was imagining it. So she certainly didn't get "gas-lighted".

 

In addition he used our joint monies to buy her presents (gold jewellery and week-ends away (on the pretext of going fishing) as he wanted to impress her. After we parted company and he no longer had access to such funds all that dried up. So she had the benefit of material items for a short time.

 

I had the advantage of a clear conscience and when DD happened was able to take charge of the situation, file for divorce and give her what she wanted, which was him.

 

Years later she told her friends (and this eventually got back to me) that "she wasn't as happy as she thought she'd be, being with him". Apparently she told him that as well - nice one!

 

All in all, on balance, I don't think she was treated any better, she just had higher tolerance levels for bad behaviour.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Arieswoman

[dichotomy]

Arieswoman - thanks. I think you mention a few things like communication and jewlery during the affair that your WH bought for AP. My point of the thread would have been if your husband was never very communicative at all to you, or never bought you jewelery at all - but he did all this for AP.

 

I do thiink the dating analogy is a pretty good analogy to some affairs. The attraction is new, the emtions new, your giving or projecting one side of yourself.

[dichotomy]

Hey everyone.

 

Not to sound all moderator'ish (just call me William jr )- but the last parts of this thread we have deviated off Affair behavior to past single life behavior, thats a whole other thread - and one that has been discussed many many times here on LS (past sex life)

 

I know why this happened as for many men sex or sex acts = how special and loved we feel to our women, and so we follow this line of thinking back before the marriage to past single partners.........but thats not what this thread is about .......this thread is only for affair behavior - which is much more clear cut.