Lernaean_Hydra Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Divorce or annul immediately. You keep going around in circles making excuses and talking about counseling and whatnot but seem to be totally ignoring the advice everyone else has given you. Your marriage is dead, your wife wants nothing to do with you and she's given you all the reasons you need to end the marriage. I don't understand why you insist on trying to "salvage" this ridiculous farce of a matrimony. It is O V E R. 3
Author GrandeH Posted May 16, 2014 Author Posted May 16, 2014 I am not ignoring your advice guys. Right now we are seperated, I broke up with her not long ago. At the request of my family and her family they have all asked me to at least give counselling a go with her. I don't want to seem like a douche by refusing a "last chance" counselling session to see if we can open up doors for R. I absolutely agree with you! I'm sorry I failed to mention this earlier. But also as Christian I am believing that God will save this marriage regardless of what the situation looks like. Even my family and her family also are on my side but they are really insisting I at least hang in there until ALL options are exhausted. God hates divorce, and this is something so easy for him to fix.
BetrayedH Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 You may not be having sex with her but I bet one of the bad boys from the club is. You were her ticket out of poverty but you only got her halfway to her goal. Listen to the older and wiser folks around here, young lad. You're being used. And I'd bet God isn't a fan. Go ahead and do the counseling session if you must. But if you don't see a complete 180 from the sham of a marriage you've been handed so far, make your next appointment with an attorney. 5
stillafool Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 I am not ignoring your advice guys. Right now we are seperated, I broke up with her not long ago. At the request of my family and her family they have all asked me to at least give counselling a go with her. I don't want to seem like a douche by refusing a "last chance" counselling session to see if we can open up doors for R. I absolutely agree with you! I'm sorry I failed to mention this earlier. But also as Christian I am believing that God will save this marriage regardless of what the situation looks like. Even my family and her family also are on my side but they are really insisting I at least hang in there until ALL options are exhausted. God hates divorce, and this is something so easy for him to fix. If thy right hand offends you, cut it off!
soccerrprp Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 I am not ignoring your advice guys. Right now we are seperated, I broke up with her not long ago. At the request of my family and her family they have all asked me to at least give counselling a go with her. I don't want to seem like a douche by refusing a "last chance" counselling session to see if we can open up doors for R. I absolutely agree with you! I'm sorry I failed to mention this earlier. But also as Christian I am believing that God will save this marriage regardless of what the situation looks like. Even my family and her family also are on my side but they are really insisting I at least hang in there until ALL options are exhausted. God hates divorce, and this is something so easy for him to fix. Please, I don't want to suggest that your belief system is any less honorable in healthy doses, but your SEPARATION is hardly an act of godliness. I've learned that as easy as EVERYTHING is for god to fix, he doesn't. It always comes back down to what you and I, mere mortals decide to do with our lives. Give it all you got, but don't be surprised if god doesn't do anything to save this relationship in the end. And if that happens, please don't make excuses for him for allowing something that you think he hates. 2
Author GrandeH Posted May 16, 2014 Author Posted May 16, 2014 BetrayedH the fact that your comment could be a reality haunts me. Will we see a 180 from this girl or will I be sending her back to her country? We find out tomorrow. On a side note, if she was using me, why would she screw herself over by behaving like this before the marriage visa is even processed? She is only here on a visitor visa and it expires soon... If I was in her shoes I would at least fake it till I make it then divorce after obtaining the visa, plus if I divorce her now, in her culture it is VERY difficult to remarry and she would most likely get disowned by her family. It really begs the question because she is a very smart girl and well educated despite her choice of lifestyle and social circle, there is a lot for her to lose here! She also wants a big family, is very family oriented and would absolutely be screwing herself major by this divorce. I know her family very well, they are really good people honestly, and are not taking this really well. She loves her family very much, too much even and would lose her meaning of life if they disowned her. The more I think about this, i'm gonna go into the MC session with the assumption that this is just a bad case of an overall narcissitic girl who DOES love her husband and has built up resentment/negative feelings torwads me due to bad communication skills and unneccessary high expectations. And also as I said, we have really amazing sexual chemistry when we fool around. She gets very wet, heavy breathing and really into it etc. just when it comes to the deed she is reluctant. Anyway i'm going on and on now, the point I want to make is she is not in anyway using me to get out of poverty. You can definitely conclude she doesn't love me, but I made sure I wasn't being used before I got married and to say I am being used is an insult to me.
Author GrandeH Posted May 16, 2014 Author Posted May 16, 2014 I hope I don't get flamed for this, but i MIGHT have had several chances to make love to this girl but failed to read the signals she was sending. I personally don't believe in being forceful to get sex from anyone, but when she says no sometimes to things, she doesnt always mean it. Example: one time when we woke up I started fooling around with her and she said "stop", but I don't know why I just kept going. Next minute she is the one who turned aggressive and WAY more into it than I ever could be. I think I had the opportunity to make love to her, but because she had said no to sex all together at that particular time, I never made any advances. I am also nervous about having sex with her to be honest. I am not a virgin, but I am not confident in the art of making love (although i'm amazing at foreplay) and reading sexual advances by women. Maybe she has given me many signals and I failed to read them!... Oh no
stillafool Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Women can have sex, get wet, fake orgasms, sometimes get into sex when they really don't want you, etc. We are complex individuals. Just because a woman gets wet and has sex doesn't mean she's into you. Think about prostitutes and how they perform. They aren't in love but can have sex anyway you want it. If your girl is educated maybe she can get a job and get all the material things she desires. Maybe she is goodlooking enough to get other successful men here to provide for her. Who knows, but it's obvious none of what is said here matters to you because you believe this girl is in love with you. There's nothing else we can tell you except good luck on the outcome of your situation. 1
BetrayedH Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 BetrayedH the fact that your comment could be a reality haunts me. Will we see a 180 from this girl or will I be sending her back to her country? We find out tomorrow. On a side note, if she was using me, why would she screw herself over by behaving like this before the marriage visa is even processed? She is only here on a visitor visa and it expires soon... If I was in her shoes I would at least fake it till I make it then divorce after obtaining the visa, plus if I divorce her now, in her culture it is VERY difficult to remarry and she would most likely get disowned by her family. It really begs the question because she is a very smart girl and well educated despite her choice of lifestyle and social circle, there is a lot for her to lose here! She also wants a big family, is very family oriented and would absolutely be screwing herself major by this divorce. I know her family very well, they are really good people honestly, and are not taking this really well. She loves her family very much, too much even and would lose her meaning of life if they disowned her. The more I think about this, i'm gonna go into the MC session with the assumption that this is just a bad case of an overall narcissitic girl who DOES love her husband and has built up resentment/negative feelings torwads me due to bad communication skills and unneccessary high expectations. And also as I said, we have really amazing sexual chemistry when we fool around. She gets very wet, heavy breathing and really into it etc. just when it comes to the deed she is reluctant. Anyway i'm going on and on now, the point I want to make is she is not in anyway using me to get out of poverty. You can definitely conclude she doesn't love me, but I made sure I wasn't being used before I got married and to say I am being used is an insult to me. No insult was intended. I am just giving you an outside perspective - one that is not blinded by love for your wife. But I don't see how you could conclude that you're not being used. If she can just manage to buy a little more time, she'll have a marriage visa in her hands. And she hasn't even had to have sex with you to get it. A neighbor of mine went thru the same thing. He was happy with a foreign girl that became his bride but once she had been here a few years (enough that she could get financially stable), she left him. He was used and devastated. For some women, it's just a strategy to get to a higher status in life. And if they can avoid too much sex with the guy in the meantime, so be it. I just don't see how you can rule out this possibility. Please also stop saying you have amazing sexual chemistry when you haven't even had sex with your wife and it's been six months. You're in the honeymoon period of your marriage when newleywed spouses may have sex multiple times a day. After a few years, the limerance wears off. But you're starting at zero and it makes me wonder if you'll ever have sex with your wife. Call it what you like but it sure doesn't sound like sexual chemistry to me. 3
Author GrandeH Posted May 16, 2014 Author Posted May 16, 2014 Grazie for your comments guys. Please understand in no way am I dismissing your advice, logically it all makes sense that this is a sham of a marriage and I am being used. And as much as I agree with you, a small part of me believes that she does love me and there are just a lot of problems going on. If I am being used and don't see a 180 tomorrow, well yes it will not be hard to continue with the annulment. She said she will tell all tomorrow about everything thats been bothering her and why the refusal to have sex plus coldness towards me etc. So I will update you all on the outcome. A quick question, what if there is a complete 180? Would you yourselves continue being in the marriage after a drastic change or would you continue to go ahead with the annulment anyway? (I know most of you wouldn't have bothered to go to MC, but lets just assume you did)
pteromom Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 We are currently not together, and she is not speaking to me until the session tomorrow, to avoid us fighting any further. So I may have to ask her on the spot what she wants in the marriage, where as I will have the advantage of having written it down. Maybe i'll just send a message passed onto her to write hers down too. Forget about "advantage"... your goal should be to try to resolve issues together, and if that isn't possible, to at least make sure you are both heard and you attempt to understand each other, so you can walk away knowing you did all you could do. I have to ask, what if I say something different than her, but we both want those things too for each other. I ask this because we have had this conversation before but not as serious, and although we said different things, they complemented each other. I hope that makes sense. It makes sense, but it is pointless to want things FOR each other. You should give each other freedom to be who you want to be, and focus on trying to meet each other's needs. Wanting each other to be someone different is pointless - won't happen. I am 22 and she is 25, but she expects to live like the Jones' already. Very confusing for somone who comes from a poor country. We had a big argument about this, and she has backed off but I can see in her eyes that she sees me as a failiure in this regard. She does not see the things that I do for her. Apparently, her "love language" is receiving gifts... in other words, receiving material things is how she feels loved. Google the "five love languages" and read it. When you say she doesn't see the things you do, that is true. That's not the language she speaks. In my marriage, my husband speaks "physical touch" language, so while I view folding his laundry and cooking him dinner as acts of love, without meeting his primary needs, he doesn't see those things as love. I speak "acts of service", so if he is just trying to hug and kiss me without helping me out around the house, it's annoying, not loving. Read about it... it may help you understand her! I also lack some leadership skills that a husband should have, not that I am not trying. I am a very self aware person and can understand why she wouldn't have respect for me. I just don't think its fair for me to be expected to have the marriage wisdom and understanding of a 30 year old guy considering she is actually my first proper relationship. No, it's not. Marriage is hard! And in order to grow, both people have to have a spirit of forgiveness and understanding... I am clueless at times and like I said in my earlier post, this can be fixed with a little wisdom from older married couples and life experience with a willingness to learn to grow together as a couple on both our ends. The bolded part is the biggie. You both have to be open to change, understanding, and acceptance. The problem is that it doesn't sound as if she's on the same page there. It could be that she is just very frustrated about not being understood and she may calm down after a couple of counseling sessions. But it could be that she's just a high conflict personality and there is nothing YOU can do about that. So yes while I understand my faults in this marriage, the biggest problem is that I feel I don't deserve harsh treatment from her when I fail to meet my wifes expectations You are correct. You do not deserve harsh treatment. It sounds to me like your head is on straight about this. You aren't going into it with blame and revenge and anger, but are trying to solve a problem. Keep doing that until it is obvious you can't, and if you get to that point, it is OK to walk away. 3
BetrayedH Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Grazie for your comments guys. Please understand in no way am I dismissing your advice, logically it all makes sense that this is a sham of a marriage and I am being used. And as much as I agree with you, a small part of me believes that she does love me and there are just a lot of problems going on. If I am being used and don't see a 180 tomorrow, well yes it will not be hard to continue with the annulment. She said she will tell all tomorrow about everything thats been bothering her and why the refusal to have sex plus coldness towards me etc. So I will update you all on the outcome. A quick question, what if there is a complete 180? Would you yourselves continue being in the marriage after a drastic change or would you continue to go ahead with the annulment anyway? (I know most of you wouldn't have bothered to go to MC, but lets just assume you did) I caught my wife in an affair and when she made a 180, I gave reconciliation a chance. It would be disingenuous for me to say I would do otherwise in your shoes. That said, make sure her remorse comes before your forgiveness. Some people put saving the marriage above all other priorities. Prioritizing her and the marriage and subjugating your own needs is not sustainable and it's actually counter-productive. As usual, I agree with Pteromom's post above. To be brief, marriage takes a lot of work from both sides. It takes two to make it work and only one to ruin it. If she turns things around and becomes open, honest, transparent, and willing to compromise, then of course forgiveness can be on the table. Sometimes a major incident like your separation is a big wake-up call for both parties. But if it isn't a wake-up call for her, then I really hope you really start putting some healthy boundaries in place for yourself. Don't accept unacceptable treatment. If you don't respect yourself, she never will. No one respects a doormat. Good luck tomorrow.
Fluttershy Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Marriage takes two people invested to be fulfilling. When you hear about people reconciling and being succesful it because both people work hard. There is also something there to fix. You talk about how much you love her but that isn't enough to keep a marriage together. I do hope things go well for you ajd she smartens up but you need to be willing to pull the plug on this if it doesn't. Before more time is invested and children (obviously not a factor at this point but it couls take one time of her letting you have sex with her)
pink_sugar Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 What would you tell a young guy who has been married for 6 months and the wife refuses to have sex with him for God knows what ridiculous reason, AND she is horrible to him and says that her ex made her happier than him? By no sex, I mean it hasn't happened yet! My response would be WHY did you get married?!!
janedoe67 Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 I knew on my honeymoon sex would be a major issue. I cannot tell you how hard 20 years of marital rejection feels. Do not continue this. You are not even truly married, so this is not a divorce.
ChatroomHero Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 And as much as I agree with you, a small part of me believes that she does love me and there are just a lot of problems going on. I am going to draw from experience and tell you what I think I am seeing in your posts. You may have loved her or thought you loved her. She has treated you worse than a complete stranger would treat you. You realize you two will not ever work and you already know it. You are watching the situation like it is a slowly sinking ship but for some reason you cannot jump off. You feel like somehow if you do, it means you made a bad choice and failed. It scares you that you could have been so wrong when just recently you thought it was so right. When I read some of your posts it reminds me if a situation I was in, it's almost like the nostalgia of it all gets to you. You remember a point when you were happy but probably realized even then things were off. You toggle between wishing it never happened, wanting to move on and thinking you don't want to hurt her feelings and thinking you can make actually her happy. You can't. From experience, you need to move on so you both can be happy. She will not be that hurt. She might not be hurt at all. You will have a few days when you feel like a failure, you feel like things she did wrong were somehow your fault, and you feel like you could have done something differently but the truth is, in a relatively short time you will get over it. 1
littleplanet Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 Well OP, I'd fold my hand, lay down the cards and leave the table. Time to get the heck out of Dodge. What is there about you two that is actually compatible? (Especially - since married?) You describe your wife (and if your description is at all accurate) as a prima donna princess silly girl......not at all as a young woman capable of understanding the committment of marriage. The bonding - the partnership. She hasn't a clue - and has played you like a 5-cent fiddle. Understandably.....if you love her, you're going to hang by any thread you can drum up. But in the end? It's a bad business. And if it's this bad now - think of what it could turn in to, in the future! I'm such a ruddy dyed in the wool North American - that I don't really understand all the nuances of cultural specifics you describe......all this family stuff, and dishonor stuff - but it sure sounds to me like you've been trash-slapped by something 'old-country' that doesn't really fit where you now live. (And God knows what of that she's brought along with her!) All that being said: I would still strongly emphasize the fact (from your description) that you're both young - though not that young.......but she hasn't a clue right now how to grow up enough to actually be a married woman, period. And that was HER big mistake. Forget the family ties for a moment. She owns that one all by herself. Whatever the consequences....you need to look after yourself, bud. Whatever you have - you don't at all, not remotely - have a marriage. 2
johnpatric Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 What would you tell a young guy who has been married for 6 months and the wife refuses to have sex with him for God knows what ridiculous reason, AND she is horrible to him and says that her ex made her happier than him? By no sex, I mean it hasn't happened yet! What??? could you call it marriage?? Are you sure they got married??
Author GrandeH Posted May 17, 2014 Author Posted May 17, 2014 Oh wow do I have an update for you guys after MC today! Right now i'm in the toilet on my phone. I'll type everything out when I get time! All i'll say for now is i'm one happy young lad
Author GrandeH Posted May 18, 2014 Author Posted May 18, 2014 Buongiorno LS, In MC we basically addressed that we don't understand each other and we have poor communication skills, plus cultural issues, and language barrier. The no sex, was actually because we had not had a chance to get blood tested, and I had completely misunderstood that from her end as just not wanting to have sex. The cold attitude torwards me, well in their culture what we consider rude is actually polite in their culture! Anyway after really talking about everything we decided to give things another go. Grazie for your help! Will update you on everything... and yes the marriage is now consumated
LittleTiger Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 I'm pleased to hear that it was a series of misunderstandings, but rather confused as to why either of you chose to marry someone you can't communicate with! 2
soccerrprp Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 I'm pleased to hear that it was a series of misunderstandings, but rather confused as to why either of you chose to marry someone you can't communicate with! My thoughts exactly! OP, happy for you, but I am astonished that it took MC to discover what should have been OBVIOUS if there was any reasonable communication between the two of you. Good luck, but unless your communication with you wife changes dramatically, there is going to be more trouble ahead.
BetrayedH Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Buongiorno LS, In MC we basically addressed that we don't understand each other and we have poor communication skills, plus cultural issues, and language barrier. The no sex, was actually because we had not had a chance to get blood tested, and I had completely misunderstood that from her end as just not wanting to have sex. The cold attitude torwards me, well in their culture what we consider rude is actually polite in their culture! Anyway after really talking about everything we decided to give things another go. Grazie for your help! Will update you on everything... and yes the marriage is now consumated GrandeH, I don't want to rain on your parade. I really don't. It's certainly good that you've identified issues to work on: basic communication, cultural differences, and language barriers. And it's good that you've consummated the marriage. That said, I'd keep a healthy dose of skepticism that I'm not hearing in these latest posts (probably because you finally got laid). I've never heard of ANY married couple not having sex for six months because of a blood test and I can't imagine how she could possibly not have communicated that effectively for such a long period when it was stopping your consummation of the marriage. It really sounds like a lame excuse someone would come up with when they ve had days to come up with an excuse. And giving you sex is a very effective way to get a guy to shut up about it. As well, while I can understand some cultural differences, I can't imagine that being rude was intended as being polite. Again, it sounds like nonsense that a guy would overlook when the prospect of having sex after a dry spell is on the table. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong altogether. For your sake, I also hope that you keep watching for red flags (and keep going to MC). Good luck. 2
stillafool Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Buongiorno LS, In MC we basically addressed that we don't understand each other and we have poor communication skills, plus cultural issues, and language barrier. The no sex, was actually because we had not had a chance to get blood tested, and I had completely misunderstood that from her end as just not wanting to have sex. The cold attitude torwards me, well in their culture what we consider rude is actually polite in their culture! Anyway after really talking about everything we decided to give things another go. Grazie for your help! Will update you on everything... and yes the marriage is now consumated To be honest, this makes no sense whatsoever. If the attraction and desire are there a couple will have sex even if they don't speak the same language, especially if they are married. If she doesn't understand what you are saying and you don't understand what she is saying how on earth did she understand you when you asked her to marry you. How do you understand her when she told you she wanted material things. Sorry dude, but it sounds like you are getting the wool pulled over your eyes again. I'm surprised the MC would go along with this. I'm glad you are happy and feel your problem is solved. 2
littleplanet Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 (reading through to the end of the thread....) Why do I feel a little like I got offered some swampland in Florida? Palms spread outward. That's cool. I sincerely hope that MC doesn't need to precede every single roll in the hay. Um, this cultural motif happens to be Italiano? If so, I'm shocked. I come from that specific myself, and in all my born days, never came across such a thing. If not - beg ignorance, a thousand pardons. But whatever it is......good luck on this one, OP. You may need to learn the fast sprint just to stay even on the track. ("clarity" works well in marital communications, too.)
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