ThatMan Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I wasn't aware that this was even a double standard. Sometimes this happens. You have the wrong double-standard in mind, though. Male perpetrators of illicit activity often go to jail. Female perpetrators are typically viewed as someone who needs help and not punishment. You can get into this academically if you're familiar with sociology. The issue isn't whether or not people react with disdain or disgust to these actions, because they often do, but how we regard female perpetrators after the fact. Swap out the crimes of the OP's story, replace it with any given crime, and the attitude that women need help and not punishment will typically prevail. The double-standard is very real. Even a seasoned police officer that I'm acquainted with, a sergeant, always struggles with the idea that even beautiful women can do horrible things. But it also isn't everyday that those situations will crop up.
gaius Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 People seem to generally ignore that cases like these have a wide range of dynamics. Some where the teacher lures the male student in with candy and basically rapes him. Others where the male student pursues the female teacher and she eventually relents for whatever reason. Mary Kay and her guy were the latter, and a woman saying yes to a horny guy can never be considered abusive. No matter how old he is. The first type of case can screw a guy up for sure.
ASG Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 People seem to generally ignore that cases like these have a wide range of dynamics. Some where the teacher lures the male student in with candy and basically rapes him. Others where the male student pursues the female teacher and she eventually relents for whatever reason. Mary Kay and her guy were the latter, and a woman saying yes to a horny guy can never be considered abusive. No matter how old he is. The first type of case can screw a guy up for sure. I agree with this. And not just in that specific case, but teenage girls can also be VERY aggressive! And also because of the double standard of the male being the aggressor/rapist/creep, a teenage girl would be freaked out if a teacher came on to her and would probably tell other people or might actually be getting raped by said teacher. All the cases where they claim to be the "real thing", I'd bet the girl was pursuing it as well. Even if at first was only to tell her girlfriends she'd hooked the hot teacher! 1
ThatMan Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 It's still abusive and wrong. How the teenager behaves does not change the nature of these scenarios. There is still a mature adult abusing their position of authority at the expense of a minor. Just because a minor comes on hot and heavy, doesn't somehow rob an adult of their decision making ability. They're the adults in the situation. They are responsible for how they choose to react. They should behave as the adult and not the child. So should each of you if either of you truly believe this drivel. You two ought to be ashamed of yourselves. 2
gaius Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I agree with this. And not just in that specific case, but teenage girls can also be VERY aggressive! And also because of the double standard of the male being the aggressor/rapist/creep, a teenage girl would be freaked out if a teacher came on to her and would probably tell other people or might actually be getting raped by said teacher. All the cases where they claim to be the "real thing", I'd bet the girl was pursuing it as well. Even if at first was only to tell her girlfriends she'd hooked the hot teacher! Indeed. My sister's 16 and got involved with a guy in his 20's and as much as I hate to admit it she was making at least 1/2 the effort. I don't know if the law should be changed but it would at least be nice if every case wasn't treated like it's the exact same thing. The older person abusing the younger.
gaius Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 It's still abusive and wrong. How the teenager behaves does not change the nature of these scenarios. There is still a mature adult abusing their position of authority at the expense of a minor. Just because a minor comes on hot and heavy, doesn't somehow rob an adult of their decision making ability. They're the adults in the situation. They are responsible for how they choose to react. They should behave as the adult and not the child. So should each of you if either of you truly believe this drivel. You two ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You remind me of this liberal windbag named Jim Braude on one of our cable news stations. I saw him in a preview yesterday saying Monica Lewinsky was incapable of consent because Clinton was in such a higher position of power than her. Talk about offensive to Monica Lewinsky. As much as some like to believe young people are these rudderless, stupid, incapable of making a choice balls of putty it isn't really so. That just shows a lack of experience dealing with young people.
ThatMan Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) You're being incoherent. I'm conservative and Monica Lewinsky has nothing to do with this. Statutory rape is different and you clearly disagree with the entire premise that young adolescents cannot offer the same level of consent as an adult. I think your messages alone speak for itself and we do not need anybody to nitpick your *****y outlook. There's just no reasoning with people like you and it isn't my job to persuade you into being a decent human being. Edited May 9, 2014 by ThatMan 1
RedRobin Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I think that it might be more traumatizing for a girl than a boy...Lets face it, women arent often seen as creepy and predatory...In the same way guys are...Even when they are the ones that pursue...(id think in most of these cases the woman is the "aggressor"... So maybe in this case, its a double standard by its definition, but the two scenarios are rarely comparable... But what the hell do I know?... TFY Well, yes. for lots of reasons. The over-sexualization of men is encouraged, even at the detriment of their emotional health. The reverse happens for women. We don't have too many models of healthy sexuality in the US. For what it is worth, I lost my virginity at 17. 'Lost' is a misnomer. I threw it out the window with both hands. My parents only thought and concern for me was that sex happen on my terms and when I'm ready. They never pumped ideas of good girls and bad girls into my head. That is what I wish for all youth... but I still feel they aren't emotionally ready for all that comes with sex until they are older. It's not even about morality to me. More about healthy sexual development with someone they can trust who won't eff them in the head or do long term damage to their enjoyment of it. I've dated a couple men who had some VERY negative experiences as younger men and it scarred them terribly. So, it's just as important to the boys development as girls that they learn to enjoy sex in a positive way. I have serious doubts that sex with a much older person is the way to do that.
man_in_the_box Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Well to be fair in ancient Greece a young man didn't reach adulthood until he was deflowered by an older man.
RedRobin Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) It's still abusive and wrong. How the teenager behaves does not change the nature of these scenarios. There is still a mature adult abusing their position of authority at the expense of a minor. Just because a minor comes on hot and heavy, doesn't somehow rob an adult of their decision making ability. They're the adults in the situation. They are responsible for how they choose to react. They should behave as the adult and not the child. So should each of you if either of you truly believe this drivel. You two ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Ditto. The same argument I made on the age gap 'dating' thread.... except I don't believe the dynamic changes just because the younger person isn't technically a child anymore. Edited May 9, 2014 by RedRobin
gaius Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Ditto. The same argument I made on the age gap 'dating' thread.... except I don't believe the dynamic changes just because the younger person isn't technically a child anymore. That's the one issue I've seen you be dead wrong on. Why do people think just because Letourneau was his teacher that automatically means she's on top in the power dynamic? I remember one female teacher literally crying on my shoulder when I was in high school. Strength and power is not always based on age and experience. You only end up hurting yourself and any younger guy you might find interesting Red.
gaius Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I might know one or two younger guys who wouldn't let the PhD, runners figure or not answering the phone on certain nights phase them. But guys with that amount of strength and confidence are so rare throwing out the younger ones is just crazy. 1
gaius Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 You're being incoherent. I'm conservative and Monica Lewinsky has nothing to do with this. Statutory rape is different and you clearly disagree with the entire premise that young adolescents cannot offer the same level of consent as an adult. I think your messages alone speak for itself and we do not need anybody to nitpick your *****y outlook. There's just no reasoning with people like you and it isn't my job to persuade you into being a decent human being. Sucks when you have to try to be inflammatory to get people to pay attention to you huh? Thanks at least for giving me a segway to complain about Jim Braude. Hate that douche!
William Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 She " took him under her wing and showed him the ropes ", his words, not mine. She was a sexy woman no doubt. This is generally accepted but with the genders reversed, a man who is in his early 30's and the girl is 16, this would be widely condemned as a dirty old man taking advantage of a young girl. As a reminder, this is the topic. Hurling keyboard grenades at fellow members is not the topic. Let's move on to looking at the different sides of this assertion of a double standard. Thanks! 1
Keenly Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I honestly prefer anal sex over missionary style. Awesome first post. Welcome.
TAV Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I've been with two guys who both lost their virginity to an older woman (not me, for the record ). One at 16 and one a few years younger than that even. When the topic of 'how old were you when you lost your virginity' came around the first time they felt quite proud to tell me that they were sexually active at a younger age and that an older woman had taken an interest in them. When we were longer in the relationship and they weren't afraid to show their vulnerability more details came to light. Both women (one a friend of an older sister, one a neighbour) kind of preyed on the boys, singled them out, gave them extra attention at first and then in a moment that they felt safe enough and the boys were groomed appropriately they took charge of the boys. I think this is pretty much what happens with girls in such a situation. Both felt confused about what happened afterwards and felt a sense of shame towards their parents. Since amongst boys this is something that improves your status they also felt some sense of pride. But when they grew older they also had a sense of regret, like something important had been taken away from them and they did not think these women had a right to do that to them. Both thought that if they had gone to a trusted older person and complained they would have been laughed at since boys are supposed to dig this sort of thing. One of the men, the one with who lost his virginity as a pre-teen, had a lot of trouble letting a woman lead in the bedroom. I believe his problem with that came from his first experience. I believe in all circumstances that your first sexual experiences determine how you enjoy sex later on in life. I therefore think that there should be some equality in your first sexual relationship. In both cases that I talked about there wasn't any. Yes there is a double standard here but that does not mean that a 16 yr old boy cannot be as affected by this as a 16 yr old girl. 2
ASG Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 It's still abusive and wrong. How the teenager behaves does not change the nature of these scenarios. There is still a mature adult abusing their position of authority at the expense of a minor. Just because a minor comes on hot and heavy, doesn't somehow rob an adult of their decision making ability. They're the adults in the situation. They are responsible for how they choose to react. They should behave as the adult and not the child. So should each of you if either of you truly believe this drivel. You two ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Like I said, where *I'm* from, age of consent is 14. FOURTEEN!! Though there is a grey area between the ages of 14 and 16, where the other person cannot be taking advantage of their inexperience, but it's still LEGAL! And that was the reality I lived. And as such, my opinion is based on it and I wil NOT be ashamed of thinking how I do. I was a *very* aggressive teenager. I actively pursued all the older guys I was involved with. In the case of teachers, though, there is the problem of them being in a position of power, but to be honest, that's the same as being harrassed by your boss. In my country, it wouldn't be statutory rape. It would be sexual harassment. But that is also true with university students and most people don't frown on that. 1
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