Gemini611 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) Hi, I'm new and and at my wit's end with my marriage. Married 18yrs, 2 beautiful teenage kids---and affection/sex from my wife that has basically When we were dating and early in our marriage, things were quite good I'd say. I'm typically very affectionate and she generally was too. With kids and all, I understand the maternal/paternal things and that can change things some. But, I never thought it would get like this. It's almost like she wants some sort of platonic relationship where we're just two adults living in the same house. I've asked her this directly at least twice in 4 or 5 years with little to no response. It might get better for awhile but it fades. You know, things like...they don't generally say "I love you" unless you say it first. I pretty much have had to initiate all the affection and start anything related to intimacy. I could go on and on and probably will later. Bottom line, when you birthday comes and goes without even so much as getting told "happy birthday"----well something's wrong. That was last year and I'm still here--with a breaking heart but determined spirit to figure this out or do what has to be done I guess. I'm a locomotive engineer by profession and have been for 17 years. This job involves REALLY screwy hours and probably hasn't helped but it had her blessing from the start. She wanted to be a stay at home mom and I agreed so the railroad was a "good money way" to make that happen. She's now employee full time in education and she's damn good at it. For my part, I'm clean, well groomed, working on my weight at a little 220 at 5' 8". Been working in this for several years now and only recently found that I have a thyroid issue that has just now begun to improve. So yes, I'm overweight but not hideously obese and striving to get myself straightened out. My efforts have received not shred of comment from my wife other than to complain about the money some of the supplements have cost. Anyway, with me being the primary one to initiate things between us I finally decided I should try something different in hopes I may get her attention. Well... Not realizing the term "lowering the thermostat", I put just this sort of thing into practice and about a year and a half ago----and it has only gotten worse. If nothing changes by the end of this August, we will have had sex once in two years. We last had sex in October (and one other time 15 months prior) and it was pretty clear she would just as soon not have. If I go into the bedroom alone with her--just to be there, she will leave after a few minutes. If I ask her to sit with me on the couch, she has to go bed---only for me time sometimes find her on her smartphone or my daughter's phone on twitter or FB. This is all a little abbreviated and I could get into things, that I think qualify as abusive on her part but I'm running out of time to type all this right now and the idea of being on the receiving end of abuse from a woman is a little embarrassing for a guy. I've been reading some things the last few days that nearly made me want to heave they were so dead on. What do I do? She's my wife and the mother of my children. I've tried to address this with her several times to no avail. HELP Edited May 6, 2014 by Gemini611 Forgive the heading. Meant to say 'opinions' Site wouldn't allow me to correct it?
Candy_Pants Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Men are abused by their SOs more than we think, and I'm very sorry you've been on the receiving end of it. Can you elaborate on the specific type(s) of abuse? I know the lack of sex can be frustrating, but I think the abuse is much much worse and should be addressed as the primary issue.
FitChick Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Ask her to go to marriage counseling with you. If she declines, ask her if it would be okay if you had affairs as long as you were discreet so as not to embarrass her. Then when your kids are out of the house, you can get a divorce. In the mean time, lose the excess weight. She may just be turned off by your appearance.
Author Gemini611 Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 I apologize for the thread title. It was supposed to read "unbiased opinions" but for some reason I couldn't correct it on my phone. A few errors too I see. Umm. Well, she's hit me a few times over the years---when I stood my ground in an argument. A few spells with calling our kids names like "stupid" and "idiot" which I insisted I would not tolerate. This usually takes place around "that time of the month" but if you point that out, she denies it. She maintains this trinity of faults against me---only one of which I think has some merit. 1) I don't listen--this has some merit, although I must point out that she more often than not insists on attention no matter what I might be doing at the time. The same can not be done to her of course. I mean, she doesn't always hear everything I say either (we're people ya know?) but I don't hold it over her head. I've told her this but....2) I don't help out enough around the house. This one has been around since she was a stay at home mom with one child and I truly don't understand it. I changed diapers, did dishes, did what laundry I was confident doing, etc. I don't leave messes. I clean up as I make one. This is in addition to lawn, cars, etc. 3) This is the biggie--I'm always "trying to make things her fault" or "being critical". In practice this means, I can't lay out my concerns or perspective. I don't put her down or denigrate her but for instance, pointing out to her recently about our relations--that she stays on her phone or computer or in my daughter's room for hours, or that she will leave the room if we're alone together...that this is "making things her fault". This one really, really hurts. For my part, I usually just clam up at that point because I don't want to be the one to make her upset or cry and there's just no point in going farther at that point. I really need to get to my computer to elaborate but maybe this helps to point some of it out. THANK YOU for the reply.
Author Gemini611 Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 My weight is steadily fixing itself. She's had issues with her weight too. I'm inclined to say that's not the primary issue or she would have had had something positive to say about my progress so far. She hasn't---not a bit. My hour drive to get a case of her favorite wine for valentine's day got a thank you. I mean a genuine thanks but that's it. No hugs, kisses, happy valentine's day wish. Kinda hurts.
pie2 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 You're not happy, and I think you should leave the home (separate for a time) if you're afraid or being abused. There's no excuse for that behavior . You do seem to walk on eggshells around her, and seem a little scared to stand up for your own desires in the marriage. Just my impression. Have you gone to counseling with your wife? Or alone?
Author Gemini611 Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 We discussed it some time ago. Once my her, and then once by me. She was much more bothered by the idea when I suggested it. I don't think I'm afraid of being abused. It's that I'm just now kind of becoming aware of what it actually was. I used to think it was just her at "certain times" but since "turning down the thermostat" and seeing the results so far---I'm seeing things in a way I hadn't before.
pie2 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 "turning down the thermostat" What does this mean? It is funny though how, from one day to the next, our opinions about someone, something, or even an entire marriage, can start to change. I think that change sounds like it's a healthy thing for you. I hope your wife can humble herself and take an honest look at her behavior in the marriage.
Author Gemini611 Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 It's a reference I read on another site. It means for the one in the relationship who is the one initiating the affection, the touchy-feely to basically stop. The intent is to draw a reaction from the other. It hasn't worked---at least not positively. So either A--I actually wasn't doing it enough and should be thankful for what amounts to the scraps I did get or B---something is bad wrong. I don't think it's A, but that's why I'm here I guess. It's difficult for someone like me to be this way. I don't like thinking in cold, clinical terms about love/relationships but I will to protect myself and spare my kids from living this way too. It's not fair to them at all. My son sees it and has already said he wants to come with me if it gets to that point. My daughter I'm not sure about. I mean, she sees it too and gets some of it too (her and my wife are both born in October--sometimes clash of the titans) but I don't know how she feels exactly.
Andy_K Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 For my part, I'm clean, well groomed, working on my weight at a little 220 at 5' 8". Been working in this for several years now and only recently found that I have a thyroid issue that has just now begun to improve. So yes, I'm overweight but not hideously obese and striving to get myself straightened out A quick reality check for you. 220 at 5'8" is not just a little overweight, but well into the obese category, and just a few pounds away from morbidly obese, where serious health problems can and will assert themselves with alarming rapidity. It's great that you're doing something about it, but don't underplay it. 1
shet Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 You sound a lot like my parents. I can't advise except to say these things: Take a hard look at yourself to honestly consider what you might be doing wrong, because long married men tend to take an awful lot utterly for granted and totally lack any self critical faculty. She says you don't listen. Do you not listen? She says you don't help round the house. Do you? Really? I noticed you said you changed diapers, yet your kids are old enough to say they want to come with you if you leave. Sounds like some pretty old justification there. Have you ever hoovered? Mopped the kitchen? Done the shopping? Changed the beds? She says you criticise her. You say you don't denigrate or put her down. Do you really not do those things.
salparadise Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 You describe familiar patterns. It's not about weight, it's disorder in the family dynamics. The primary relationship you two once had with each other seems to have been supplanted by her relationship with the children. It's not uncommon. The essential family structure should be in the following order: 1) husband and wife taking care care of themselves as individuals so that they can fulfill their roles as spouse and parents, 2) husband and wife being primary to each other and nurturing their relationship because it's the foundation of the family , 3) the overall family and home environment, 4) parenting relationships with each of the individual children. It's kind of like how a building must have a foundation, structural support, and a roof in a certain order to maintain the integrity of the overall system. Of course this is a gross simplification of a complex system. This will probably be of interest to you. Also this example of diagramming family systems. Harville Hendricks wrote a good book on family/couples therapy called "Getting the Love You Want." His concept is that marital relationships break down due to subconscious expectations not being met. Basically, we fall in love and marry our spouses in hopes of the other person being able to heal our wounds and reunite us with our split off self, the part that we had to deny of necessity to be accepted as a child. This is an impossible task though, and the spouse invariably fails to complete us (make us eternally happy). This disappointment turns into resentment and one (or both) partners project all of life's difficulty and disappointment onto their spouse. Somewhere in this process the primary relationship may be supplanted, often with children, and the other spouse emotionally abandoned, which drastically weakens the overall family system. I suggest that you read Hendricks' book and make an appointment with a good family therapist. If your wife is willing to participate in therapy and recommit to the marriage it may be fixable. If not, then you should probably go ahead and do what you know you will have to be done eventually. In the meantime, I suggest being assertive with her (openly saying what you need and feel, without hesitation or apology, but also non-accusatory) and proactive with your own self care. You will need to make some changes and getting the right support will give you the best shot at making positive changes that benefit the whole family. 1
Author Gemini611 Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 "A quick reality check for you. 220 at 5'8" is not just a little overweight, but well into the obese category, and just a few pounds away from morbidly obese, where serious health problems can and will assert themselves with alarming rapidity. It's great that you're doing something about it, but don't underplay it." Andy K, actually it's just about 20 pounds from morbidly obese. I know, I've fought to get every single one of them off---just about 20 pounds and a waist size ago. Thyroid issues are HELL. Especially, when you only discovered it about year ago, though I've suspected it for several but couldn't get a doctor to listen. Picture yourself working out and exercising for say an hour and then an hour later, feeling like you haven't really done anything. In fact, you feel like you could probably take a nap. You're metabolism just doesn't run or does it for a very short time. Things get out of whack with cholesterol, triglycerides, vitamins B & D, endocrine and liver functions. It's not pleasant but my internal medicine doc is really helping me. Having the hours of a railroader makes it worse. I've been on an upswing for over a year now but my wife hasn't had one positive thing to say about it. I don't think I'm underplaying it but I'm open to the idea. If true, I would have thought she would have offered a little encouragement by now?
Author Gemini611 Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 Thanks salparadise. That lays it out very clear I think.
salparadise Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Thanks salparadise. That lays it out very clear I think. Good. I hope the resources will be helpful. Please read the section on Emotional Fusion and Differentiation, then google enmeshment and see if either of these seem to characterize the situation. With enmeshment there are lack of boundaries and typically one spouse sees the other as an extension of him/herself, and therefore having the right to control, think and decide for, etc. Projection (blaming one's own faults on the other) tends to accompany fusion/enmeshment. Healthy relationships are differentiated with both being aware of and sensitive to the other's unique needs. In any case, the key is to differentiate and you do that by being assertive in both thought and interaction. This is a classic book on the topic. It's directed at those in relationship with borderlines, and although that may not be the case with you it would still be valuable I think.
Author Gemini611 Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 Should I write her a letter? I've seen arguments for and against. It's the only way I can think of to get it all from my heart and head without her getting upset or me losing track ( by her getting upset ). I have no intention of groveling or being accusatory but I do want my perspective on the table. 2
pie2 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Should I write her a letter? I've seen arguments for and against. It's the only way I can think of to get it all from my heart and head without her getting upset or me losing track ( by her getting upset ). I have no intention of groveling or being accusatory but I do want my perspective on the table. I think so. Even if you don't end up giving it to her, I think it's really cathartic, and hopefully help you clarify your thoughts and feelings, and maybe even help you see some patterns or realities you didn't even see. 1
salparadise Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Should I write her a letter? I've seen arguments for and against. It's the only way I can think of to get it all from my heart and head without her getting upset or me losing track ( by her getting upset ). I have no intention of groveling or being accusatory but I do want my perspective on the table. If that's the only way you can be heard without it devolving into an argument then perhaps it would be a good idea. Begin your statements with I feel, I believe, etc., and avoid "you" statements which will likely be interpreted as accusatory. The underlying message will be that what you feel is important too, and that from here on you will be saying how you feel and what you need. You will be differentiating, which she may not be happy about. But it's hard to argue with what someone says they feel when there is no accusation attached.
Recommended Posts