KRuss Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I have been dating a widower who just turned 55, and lost his late wife 2.5 years ago after a 16 year marriage. He has a 15 yo daughter. We have dated 3.5 months and just became exclusive. I am 51, divorced 4 years after a 22 yr marriage. I have done a lot of reading about grief and how it relates to loss of a spouse, but wonder if anyone has first hand experience of the transition from loss to moving on with their lives. Much of the reading I have done "warns" you of the downfalls of dating a widower. While I can see there are issues that are there to deal with, it is that way in much of life no matter who you date. Life has happened to all of us, and it is how we handle that which matters. Appreciate any insight, books that may be helpful, personal accounts, etc. Thanks!
Speakingofwhich Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I dated a man whose wife had committed suicide. It was relatively early in his moving on experience. He wasn't an emotionally expressive type person and he was ready to be with other people. He did have photos of her in his home but that didn't bother me. He did talk about his wife a lot which was OK with me. I had met the wife previously and also knew of her reputation. She was a beautiful person physically (beauty queen) and a very high achiever in her career realm. But, had issues accepting a career downturn and personal pride issues, too, I believe.
melodymatters Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I am on the other side, a re-married widow. One bright side is I never EVER take my "new" husband for granted. I know people can be there one day and gone the next, so I treasure every moment. Hopefully that will be the case with your guy. 4
FitChick Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I think widowers are a "catch" and they get snapped up very quickly on the singles market. They are more willing to commit and don't have the bitterness most divorced men have. 6
HeartbrokenNewbie Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I havent dated one but technically u could say I am one my BF passed away. This was back in 2008 I was obviously devastated but since then I have had a 3 year relationship (I loved him just as much and we were due to get married) if there is any worry that u are living in someones shadow then from my experience I would say that u are not... my recent ex never lived in a shadow.. my ex dying was my past and he was my present. I light a candle and meet friends for drinks to celebrate his b.day and the day he passed and thats it. It no longer affects my day to day life and I was very happy with my recent LTR ex x
soccerrprp Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I think widowers are a "catch" and they get snapped up very quickly on the singles market. They are more willing to commit and don't have the bitterness most divorced men have. A widower here. After a very long illness, my wife passed away and I must say I didn't think I'd date or have another relationship like it again. For the most part, I agree with FitChick. I had a very loving relationship, so no bitterness when it came to considering another relationship or women in general. We, widowers, widows, simply ask that we be given the chance to demonstrate that we are ready for a relationship and not be written off prematurely b/c you are too scared or YOU think we are not ready. We know better than anyone else when we're ready, not you. I'm in a serious relationship with a woman right now who, initially came to some preconceived notions about whether I was ready or not. She was concerned and it may it difficult to move forward (then). There's nothing more frustrating than the person you're dating telling you what is best for you, or how to mourn, grieve... 4
Author KRuss Posted May 5, 2014 Author Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks for all the replies. I don't think I hold any "MORE" apprehensions about dating this man, but I hold different apprehensions. Because I haven't dated anyone who has lost a spouse, I have had to read about it to understand more. He is open with me that Mothers Day will be hard at his house (15 yo daughter). He shared he visits her grave site once a month or so, last week he grabbed a sandwich and ate it there for 20 min. I just listen, I don't say a lot. I did note that at his home in the extra bedroom (where I showered Sat morning) the closet was open and there were a lot of his late wife's clothes and shoes in there so although they are not in his closet and have been moved to the extra room, they are still there. I am not sure how I feel about it, but my initial thought was to not think too much into it at this moment. Obviously there are a few pictures of family around, and one of their wedding in the hall that leads to his bedroom. I realize this was part of his life, and he wants to move on and open up, and asked for an exclusive relationship. He told me he feels like an onion, and he is wanting to shed layers and not be guarded with me. I talked to my mom as she lost my dad when I was 3. She said she doesn't think the "things" in the house mean a lot right now, to be just patient and let time pass and get to know one another more. She thinks it is natural to slowly let go of things as he is ready and his daughter is. She doesn't think it is an indication of him being ready or not ready for someone else in his life. I do think it is important for him to take things slow and be able to process his feelings. He told me the first time we were intimate he felt a little bit like he had cheated as he had always been monogamous. I appreciate the thoughts/responses.
soccerrprp Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks for all the replies. I don't think I hold any "MORE" apprehensions about dating this man, but I hold different apprehensions. Because I haven't dated anyone who has lost a spouse, I have had to read about it to understand more. He is open with me that Mothers Day will be hard at his house (15 yo daughter). He shared he visits her grave site once a month or so, last week he grabbed a sandwich and ate it there for 20 min. I just listen, I don't say a lot. I did note that at his home in the extra bedroom (where I showered Sat morning) the closet was open and there were a lot of his late wife's clothes and shoes in there so although they are not in his closet and have been moved to the extra room, they are still there. I am not sure how I feel about it, but my initial thought was to not think too much into it at this moment. Obviously there are a few pictures of family around, and one of their wedding in the hall that leads to his bedroom. I realize this was part of his life, and he wants to move on and open up, and asked for an exclusive relationship. He told me he feels like an onion, and he is wanting to shed layers and not be guarded with me. I talked to my mom as she lost my dad when I was 3. She said she doesn't think the "things" in the house mean a lot right now, to be just patient and let time pass and get to know one another more. She thinks it is natural to slowly let go of things as he is ready and his daughter is. She doesn't think it is an indication of him being ready or not ready for someone else in his life. I do think it is important for him to take things slow and be able to process his feelings. He told me the first time we were intimate he felt a little bit like he had cheated as he had always been monogamous. I appreciate the thoughts/responses. It sounds like he's been opening up to you, trying to be honest about what he is going through. When I started dating again, I had a number of things in my closet that belonged to my late wife. A part of me wanted and still does, want to keep some possessions of hers, not so much for me, as it is for my children. When I look the items, I don't have a longing (like early on) for the past. I've moved on and as my children have for the most part. His wife passed away over 2-yrs ago. I suspect that he has made much progress, but when you're a lonely widow(er) with a child that constantly reminds of your late wife, it is understandable that it would appear that he is still holding on. The important thing is how strong is he holding on and how is that affecting his relationship with you. My gf understands to a great degree what I have and continue to go through with the loss of my late wife. She is not in competition. Neither are you. His late wife is gone. You are there and what and how you support him will determine and in reality, help him move forward. As he gets closer to you, more and more of the experiences, times you two have together will become the focus of his life and this is a good thing. I was saying that my gf understands...man o man, I am so fortunate to have her. My gf is the one that insists that I keep as many important things that remind me and my children of my late wife and their mother. I can't tell you how important this is. I don't want my children to forget their mother, but I know, that in time, she will be a memory, but as long as they are happy, and a new life with my gf represents all that is healthy, loving, then there are painful things in the past that are best left in the past. My children are young and we only have pictures and our occasional talk to help them remember. Don't be disturbed about the things of his late wife's. Some people take a little longer to clean house, but they may also be for his daughter. Boy, I hope I made some sense. In the end, it's all about perspective. Understand where he is coming from. That he has a daughter that does remember her mother and he needs to be sensitive to her needs, desire to hold on, remember. But don't treat him like he's some delicate flower. Allow him to demonstrate that he is serious, moving forward with you and is not using his status as a way to keep distant. It doesn't sound like he is. Don't lower your expectations, be patient, listen and know that you likely have a guy who has a much more positive outlook on relationships, women than most men do. 1
Author KRuss Posted May 5, 2014 Author Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Soccerrprp: Thanks for your message. It is so good to have your message to refer to as you have/are experiencing a similar experience as he has in losing a spouse. I really don't feel like he is using what he is going through in an attempt to stay distant at all. In a sense I feel he sometimes gets frustrated that he is where he is, as he doesn't want it to impede where we go from here. He has from the beginning told his daughter of our dates, and she teases him about getting his hair cut and putting on a cool blue shirt to come see me. So, in no way is he stuck in the past or hiding anything. But, he is sensitive to the past and his and her grieving that isn't always linear. I think from all he tells me that I am the first person he has dated that has allowed him the space he needs to be a dad, handle his career, and have space to deal with his feelings. He has not felt any pressure, and only understanding, caring and support from me which is very unusual to find he said. I think him getting close to me has maybe opened up new feelings to grieve and possibly a bit of guilt about moving on with someone. He has been very open about his feelings with me, and that is the one thing I really appreciate about him is his genuineness and that makes me feel like I can trust him. His intent from the first date was to ask what i wanted in a relationship as he is looking for his best friend for life/partner. We settled that on the first date, that we knew we both were in want of the same things. We just became exclusive our last date. He has pursued almost all the communication and dating since we met. I wanted this from him to gauge his intent, and didnt want to make it "easy" for him to just see me. Although I was open, engaging, and warm I didn't want someone in my life that wasn't REALLY interested and willing to show it. Also, because he is a widower I wanted to know he was ready to put effort into someone new being in his life. So, I haven't treated him like a delicate flower. If you have any advice on how to handle the conversation when he shares about a difficult holiday, or visiting her gravesite, etc. I would appreciate it. I am cognitive about balancing being true to myself, but also sensitive to him and where he is at. I feel at times a little unsure of how to handle some things, or knowing what to say. It is a new path for me... Also, I would add that there are family pictures in LR, wedding photo in hall leading to his bedroom, a bear with be mine in his shelf in bathroom toilet area, and i noticed all her clothes and shoes are in one of the extra bedrooms ( He set me up in that room to shower this past Sat and the closet door was open). Should I be concerned as it seems there are quite a few of her things still there. Also in his bathroom there is an opposite vanity that seems to have a mirror and a few things there as well. I can understand a lot of it, but I feel a bit uncomfortable with the wedding photo going into the bedroom and the clothes in the closet, and possibly the bear. I mean, I know he has memories but if you are bringing a girl home (very new not something he has done before, dated but not serious as we are or physical) shouldn't you think of these things? Edited May 5, 2014 by KRuss 1
FitChick Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 He is so used to having those things around that I don't think he truly "sees" them. They are just part of the "landscape." If there is any perfume or cosmetics, take careful note of them and do NOT wear the same items because scent is very evocative of past events. You need to create new memories, not stir up old ones. I think over time he will realize and pack some stuff away or throw it out. Just be patient and try to ignore of that stuff for now. 3
Author KRuss Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 Thanks FitChick. I have read a lot and there are differing views on this idea. I think I need to ponder awhile and just sit with it a little to figure out my thoughts/feelings. Appreciate your input!
soccerrprp Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 KRuss, There is no single, all-inclusive answer as to how to date a widow(er). I was married to my elegant, beautiful, classically trained pianist wife for 12-years. Had (have) two beautiful children (both still under the age of 9). I lost her close to 3-yrs ago. It sounds like my progression has been quicker than your bf's, but the nature in which my wife died may have much to explain that. My wife had terminal cancer, statistically very low chance of cure. As much as we hoped and tried to be optimistic, every time something, even minor, went awry, we, I was brought to the reality of the circumstances. I started mourning long before my late wife passed away, already looking and in some ways, planning for a life w/o her. I had to. I had two extremely young children to take care. We all mourn, bereave at differing ways, pace. I wonder if his wife's passing was more sudden, less time for him to prepare for it. Anyway, his opening up to you and acceptance of you are obvious good signs that he is ready or nearly ready for someone else to be the love of his life. It's cool that his daughter is good with it. Both seem to be moving forward. The happiness and new memories you bring is a blessing to them, believe me. You are helping them move forward, to concentrate more on the things that are immediate, in the now to be happier. I think that the more you two get closer, the more he will be willing to let go of the "stuff." Really. My gf doesn't know this, but when I became much more certain of her, I struggled to decide what belongings of my late wife's to keep. I wanted to move forward and not burden her with the memories of my late wife in anyway. In a sense, I thought I was being considerate, but with my gf's help, it seems that I was being selfish. My gf is the one who insists that I keep as much as I can...for me, but mostly for the kids. Give him time to let go or as others have said, he may not even really notice all the stuff that he has around. It isn't easy to let go of things of someone you loved so much. Sometimes it's nothing more than simply "being used to having them around." I love, adore my gf. I didn't ever think I'd meet someone like her. She is my support, my lover, friend and soon my fiancee (yay!). We all have more room for love and to love when we're healthy. Another note. Don't try too hard. Don't bring up his wife unless there is something substantive you need to know. Let him bring her up and simply listen. You are not in competition with his late wife!
Author KRuss Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 Soccerrprp: Thanks for taking the time to respond. I know with little kids life is busy.... His wife had ovarian cancer and was sick just under a year. They had just moved here from Canada for him to take on a new job role, and she got sick 3 weeks later. I think they initially thought she'd be ok, but later saw it wasn't. She was 9 yrs. younger than him and I think it was quite a surprise. Plus, they were happy and he had been in a marriage when young out of high school that wasn't. Two weeks ago on his birthday when he brought everything up to me and wanted to talk, one of the many beautiful things he said to me was that he never thought he would find someone like me again. After he lost his wife he gave up hope of that, and after dating a short while realized that he may have to change what he was looking for. He went on to tell me about all the things he finds amazing about me. I appreciate you saying not to bring up the wife, because I don't. I figure if there is something he wants me to know he'll tell me. I just listen usually, but sometimes it feels like that isn't enough. He really feels like he has just started living again this past 6-9 months. He wants to move slow and I am ok with that because I can see what an amazing man/person/father he is. Plus, actions over time demonstrate intention and he told me his are not short sighted. I will just sit with the "things" for awhile and see how that unfolds in time. As you mentioned, I think someone showing up in his life that he has feelings for may spur him to take stock of where his own life is all on his own. From what he has said, I think it has prompted him to start peeling layers away so that he doesn't appear guarded with me, as he doesn't want to be. I am so happy for you that you have found your best friend in life, and that she is supportive of your past and your beautiful children. True love takes time to build....
AncientEchos Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 My husband passed away eight years ago, so I’ve been a widow for a long time. It’s always such a touchy subject and I’m never quite sure why. No one can give you an answer on how long to takes to grieve and move forward with your life after a loss because grieving is an individual journey. For me, personally, I knew I was ready to date and look for a new relationship when I finally made my peace with my husband’s death. It took me three years to get to that point. When trying to understand the sharing of stories or seeing personal belongings/photos/gifts, I think one vital element people fail to understand about a widow or widower is that we have lost a member of our family. No one would dream of questioning any of these things if it was a parent/sibling/child/other family member or dear friend, in fact seeing reminders of other lost loved ones and hearing stories about times gone by is considered normal and even good. (A toast to our friend George who always knew how to pull a good prank!) An outright shrine to a lost spouse would be alarming, but a few photos or other personal memories shouldn’t raise any eyebrows, yet sadly it often does. Look, we don’t want to forget the people we have loved and lost to death, but that doesn’t mean we have not moved forward with our lives. As far as stories go, I have never viewed a story including my late husband as any different than sharing any other story about my past. For me, it would be the same as sharing childhood stories or friendship stories. We were together for 12 years, a good portion of time and many memories. Everything that has happened in our past, all of the people we meet, the things we experience and see make us who we are today. (I don’t mind hearing stories that include ex-wives or ex-girlfriends.) When he is mentioning that a holiday will be difficult or talking of visiting her grave, I don’t think you need to say anything. If you are curious about anything, don’t hesitate to ask. I think he is just opening up to you and sharing his feelings, so I wouldn’t worry about trying to come up with anything to say to add to the conversation. Just as when one of your friends opens up and shares, sometimes all they want is someone to listen. The stuffed bear shouldn’t upset you, or any other little gifts you may discover in the future. Why would I get rid of one of my favorite pairs of earrings or stop wearing them because my husband gave them to me? I’m going to tell you a story that I hope will give you a different perspective about the little stuffed bear. When my husband and I first started living together, I noticed he had a stuffed Garfield in his closet. (Believe me, he was not a stuffed animal kind of guy. lol) I took it out of the closet and I asked him about it. An old girlfriend of his had given it to him on a particularly good day they had and he shared the story of that day with me. I thanked him for telling me the story and I put Garfield back in the closet. A few years later when our daughter was stuffed animal crazy, she saw the kitty and wanted the kitty, so he gave it to her. A few years after my husband’s death, my daughter was going through her old toys and getting rid of things she never played with anymore. I went to check on her progress and saw Garfield sitting in the pile of toys to be thrown away. I picked Garfield up and put him on one of my bookshelves. Why? Garfield represents a happy memory for my late husband. His old girlfriend was never a threat to me or our relationship; the stuffed animal and the memory of a good day were never a threat to me. Garfield makes me smile sitting here on my bookshelf. I still have a few photos of my husband on display in my home. (No wedding photos.) My daughter is now in college, but this is still her home and she does still live here while school is out. Someday when she is all grown up and out on her own, I will give them to her and she will be the official memory keeper, but for now they will stay in our home. I can however see how a wedding photo would feel weird for you. I can also understand seeing her personal toiletries in the bathroom would make you feel uncomfortable. I would give it a little bit of time to see if he removes those things on his own. If they are still there after some time has passed, I think you should be able to talk to him about it, but I would do so by asking him about the items and asking him why he still has them on display. You never know, his answers may not be what you think they would be. After you hear what he has to say, I think it would be perfectly okay for you to open up about your feelings and how those particular items make you feel. I would not worry about her personal belongings that have been moved to the spare bedroom. As others have pointed out, he is probably keeping them for his daughter and she shouldn’t be asked to hide away her mother’s belongings or even make decisions about what she wants to keep or let go of until she is ready to do so. Time and patience is the key to understanding. I think you are on a good path so far.
Author KRuss Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 AncientEchos: Thank you for your lovely post. I appreciate you sharing at length with me. When I read this, it did help a bit. In an attempt to try and understand where he is I have read a lot. There are books by Abel Keogh, a remarried widower. He says not to tolerate them having a lot of things as it says they aren't ready to move on. It seems like a hard line to me in a sense. I want to be empathetic and understanding to him, but also fair to my own thoughts and feelings, and boundaries. I think my search for information is me trying to determine if he is ready to really give of himself like he needs to be able to in order to fall in love again. I have allowed him to pursue the entire 3.5 months for two reasons, one to gauge his interest and the other to see if he continues to want things to go to another level. He has been the one to start every conversation with the last one telling me he wanted just us to be exclusive. He has opened up a lot, and I am trusting it right now to a degree. I am fearful that by investing the amount of feelings I am now, and them rapidly growing, that I am in a very vulnerable position. Somehow, I am trying to make sure that I am investing my heart in the right place and at the right time. Maybe that is just a risk I have to take and deal with the aftermath if things don't work. Again, thanks for sharing with me. 1
soccerrprp Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I want to be empathetic and understanding to him, but also fair to my own thoughts and feelings, and boundaries. Yes, yes. Try to understand where he is coming from, but do be TOO lenient, in fact, in my opinion, treat him as you would any other person you'd date. I've dated quite a few women since my wife passed away and ONLY one of them made more of my status of a widower an issue and that's the woman I'm with now. All the other women had, in my opinion, a healthier perspective of my loss as they didn't assume to know more about what I was going through and how I should deal with it. They treated me like any other guy and I appreciated that. I could be me. It's a little ironic that I'm with my gf, but she is very supportive. DO NOT ALLOW him to use his loss as a means to manipulate or diminish his responsibilities. Do what is best for you, but be sensitive to his need to communicate to you about his late wife.
AncientEchos Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 AncientEchos: Thank you for your lovely post. I appreciate you sharing at length with me. When I read this, it did help a bit. In an attempt to try and understand where he is I have read a lot. There are books by Abel Keogh, a remarried widower. He says not to tolerate them having a lot of things as it says they aren't ready to move on. It seems like a hard line to me in a sense. I want to be empathetic and understanding to him, but also fair to my own thoughts and feelings, and boundaries. I think my search for information is me trying to determine if he is ready to really give of himself like he needs to be able to in order to fall in love again. I have allowed him to pursue the entire 3.5 months for two reasons, one to gauge his interest and the other to see if he continues to want things to go to another level. He has been the one to start every conversation with the last one telling me he wanted just us to be exclusive. He has opened up a lot, and I am trusting it right now to a degree. I am fearful that by investing the amount of feelings I am now, and them rapidly growing, that I am in a very vulnerable position. Somehow, I am trying to make sure that I am investing my heart in the right place and at the right time. Maybe that is just a risk I have to take and deal with the aftermath if things don't work. Again, thanks for sharing with me. My situation was a little different than yours, but my mind operates a bit differently than most! lol By the time I had started dating, I had already gone through the entire house and all of my husband's personal belongings. I had already redone my bedroom to make it my own space and it was no longer our space. The same went for the rest of the house, I had changed some things about the house to create my own space, similar, yet different to what it had been. As I mentioned, I do have a few photos of him still on display, but they are not couples photos, they are father daughter photos and work photos. I can't wipe him out of my life entirely, he was my family and my best friend. He is a part of me and a part of who I am. However, I had done the hard work to make sure my heart and mind were in the right place before I began dating again. I did that not only for myself, but I also did that to make sure I wouldn't hurt anyone else by becoming involved and then not being ready. Then again, as I already said, I'm not your typical case. I haven't seen any serious red flags in what you have posted so far. Give this guy a little bit of time to see if he can put away his wife's very personal belongings and take down the wedding photos, etc. He could be agonizing about it already. If he doesn't do it after a bit more time, talk to him. (Only you can decide how much time you can give him.) One thing that worries people when they get involved with widowed person is that we are still in love with our late spouse. All I can tell you is my own personal experience. I will always carry my husband in my heart, he will always be a part of me, a part of who I am. I still love him, but the love evolves and changes over time, it is a very different kind of love from when he was still here and we were married. I am no longer actively in love with my late husband. It isn't possible (for me) to remain actively in love with someone who is no longer here. Now it more of a fondness for someone who was such a big part of my life for so many years. It is more about honoring who he was, what we were and what we had together. (I hope that makes some kind of sense for you,) The two of you are taking things slow and it is probably wise to continue to take things slowly. You seem to like this guy and all indications point to him being very interested in you as well. Remember though, any time we open our hearts to a new person we are risking hurt if it doesn't work out. Try not to over think it and try not to go by the letter in all of those books you are reading. They can be useful guides and give you some insight and understanding, but they will never give you the entire picture. Take it one day at a time. 2
soccerrprp Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 AncientEchos' words are spot on. Like her, I had already gone through a lot of my late-wife's things. I do not have any pics of my wife and I, rather my children and her or only of her. Give it time.
Author KRuss Posted May 7, 2014 Author Posted May 7, 2014 Soccerrprp: He obviously has gone through some things, but all her clothes in x room closet or MANY and shoes, things in his bathroom are the glaring things i think. The one wedding photo and LR photos are really only other things around the home. I have spent the last couple of days thinking a lot about things and reading the posts from Ancient, you, and widower blogs. We have dated 3.5 months, almost 4. I think at this point what is bothering me is that the conversations when we are not together have not increased. I saw him Fri night, stayed and left Sat morning as he had plans with his son and daughter for the day, and his son's wife's family Sunday. He texted me good night Sun night, texted me Mon night about hockey game as we both watch and then a few good night texts, a flirt. Then last night I texted him good night. No talking. I feel like Fri night was an exclusive talk, and then we had an amazing night and morning. THAT makes me want to be closer, talk more, etc. For him I feel like he needs space to process it as it was the first time in 2.5 years he has had anyone stay at his place overnight. I am the first person even after his dating for 1.5 years that he has been intimate with. If I don't treat him ANY different then I am concerned that the frequency of communication and seeing one another hasn't increased. I know he wants to go slow, he said that from the BEGINNING. My concerns I talked about the other night brought this up...does he have time to have a relationship go to the next level? He said yes. I am waiting for him to pursue and make that happen. I am feeling disappointed. I feel like me coming into his life has made him face a new level of grief....how he feels about having feelings for someone else, sleeping with someone else, having someone in his home, etc. So, I cannot treat him like every other guy because that is not where he is. I am not sure how to handle this. I feel like he has to make the moves to see me more during the week and talk more as my schedule is much easier with no kids at home, and just myself to take care of. I have lots of time to spend if he did. AncientEchos: Thanks. I realize that knowledge in books is just that, and that you have to trust your instincts and see each person as they are, individual in nature. I don't see a lot of red flags right now, but I do think I am feeling a bit like he isn't ready to jump all in. He is feeling apprehensive and needs to move very slowly....maybe slower than I would like at almost 4 months in. I am wanting more than he is giving as far as a time/communication. BUT, I think if my intuition is correct that he is doing a lot of processing right now. I think when someone new comes along there is probably the guilt of that for him, and the time alone to work through that. I don't want to run, but I am really needing to see a move in the direction I want within the next couple of weeks here. If not I think I will need to reiterate my concern I voiced which was that he doesn't seem to have time to elevate our relationship. I don't know if he doesn't have the time, or just can't go there. I sense it is as much not ready as it is time at this point. Prior to the last two weeks he was crazy busy at work and then was sick, but all that is over now and more normal. Thanks for writing....the people that you and soccerrprp are fortunate in that you cleared your lives and were totally ready. I am wondering if maybe I should back off and tell him to take more time for himself and if he wants to contact me later. On the other hand, I adore him and I haven't felt this way in a VERY long time. He truly is a special, special man. Sigh......
soccerrprp Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 You know, it's pretty clear to me that he and i may be dealing with the loss in very different ways. 1. After some time, I prepared myself to find someone else. That necessarily entailed clearing house to a point, not talking about my late wife unless need be or asked. 2. I appreciated that women (but one) did not treat me like a child or vulnerable, emotionally unsteady single father (widower). 3. I was ready, I pursued and the women made it clear that if I wanted them that I should. I know it's hard, but I really believe sooner the better that you let him know what your expectations are. That moving TOO slow won't work for you. That perhaps, he isn't ready to have a relationship. Actions....actions. He says that he is ready, but does his demeanor and actions DEMONSTRATE this? I told the only woman who seemed to have issues with my widower status that my actions are what should show her whether I am ready or not. Am I behaving like someone who is interested and looking forward to a serious relationship??? Needless to say, my "actions" were enough to convince her, but they mean much more than words. Is he REALLY ready for a relationship beyond his wife? I hope so.
Author KRuss Posted May 7, 2014 Author Posted May 7, 2014 Soccerrprp: So, you think I should have a conversation related around the slow pace of the relationship at this point....and let the possessions not be part of that?
AncientEchos Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 It sounds like it might be time for you to do a bit of soul searching and figure out exactly what your expectations and needs are for this relationship. He could be feeling guilt or confusion or Mother's Day may just be hitting hard right now, perhaps he is only processing everything that has happened, only he has those answers. I think it is good for two people to talk about issues like communication and how often to see each other. Some people don't have a need for daily communication, others do, some people want to see each other three or more times a week, others are perfectly happy with once a week. Sometimes you need discuss these things to find a balance. People don't always fall in sync effortlessly. I'm going to point out a few things here for you to think about. Please don't take any of this the wrong way, I don't mean any of it in a bad way, just food for thought. You only agreed to be exclusive last week. You appear to have an expectation that the entire relationship would change overnight in regards to communication and closeness. These are things you need to discuss with him, it isn't something that will magically change with the word exclusive. In some ways it seems that you have been asking him to prove himself for a very long time now. You have made sure that he is the one initiating contact, dates, taking things to the next level. You appear to need him to provide proof he is invested enough for you to in turn come around and invest in him. I think at 4 months time and agreeing to be exclusive there should be more of a balance in the relationship. Perhaps he is wondering why you aren't pursuing/initiating more of the relationship at this point in time. I just don't have a sense of a good balance of give and take between the two of you at this point in time and that could lead to doubts and insecurities on both sides. I do think you both need to sit down and discuss what each of your expectations/wants/needs are going forward in this relationship. Remaining silent about important issues always does more damage than good.
soccerrprp Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 Soccerrprp: So, you think I should have a conversation related around the slow pace of the relationship at this point....and let the possessions not be part of that? I think that you should not talk about the possessions for now. The most important thing is the pace of the relationship. You've been dating for 3+ months which is not a long time. How often do you see each other? How many contact times have you two had? In the end, you need to let him know you need/want a little more. If he's serious about you, he'll appreciate your candor. Let him explain why he's going slower, but make certain that you have expectations too. Don't be ambiguous. Some people take ambiguity as a sign of uncertainty.
Michelle ma Belle Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 I can only speak of MY experience with dating someone who lost someone they loved and that experience hasn't been a positive one unfortunately. I certainly wouldn't dare paint ALL widowers with the same brush so take it with a grain of salt. I dated a man who lost is fiancee very tragically (in a car crash). He was also a childhood friend who I knew for many years prior to us taking a leap of faith and dating when we reconnected again in our forties. He spent a LOT of time talking about her. He had at least one tattoo he got while they were together (matching tattoos actually) and was in the process of finishing up another one he had started years AFTER she past in honor of her. He showed me pictures of her he still had on his phone and told me that he would never delete them. He talked a lot about her and often including the hell he went through when he lost her but was convinced he was ready to fall in love again and move on. Although some of these things showed up as red flags for me, I was (and am) nothing if not someone who likes to give everyone a chance and since I had known him since childhood, I felt like we might have a good chance at finding something together. I was wrong. Although he said all the right things to me, his actions were anything but. It was painfully obvious he was STILL grieving his fiancee even 4 years later. I quickly realized that he was an alcoholic who loved to find any excuse for a party and used drinking as a way to numb his pain and perhaps the guilt of WANTING to love again. Initially, he was engaging but very quickly disconnected from me and I was clueless how to handle things without making some hard points. It didn't help that the anniversary of his fiancee's death fell on a day while we were dating. This seemed to just make things worse. He took the day off work and spent time at her grave. I saw him later that night and when I looked into his eyes, it looked like the lights were out and no one was home. Just going through the motions. There was no getting him back after that. As much as I empathized and sincerely ached for him and his loss, I understood that I couldn't "save" him nor should I. Not only was I not able to save him but deep down I realized I didn't want to save him. I know that may sound cold but it was for self preservation. Had I met him 10 or 15 years earlier, YES I would have done just that...put MY life on hold to be everything he needed and white knuckle my way into his heart but I was at a very different point in my life. I had been through my own hell and loss and had done a tremendous amount of work on myself to get to a place where I finally felt healed and strong and happy. I was ready to LIVE and experience life and have fun and fall madly in love again NOT take on someone that clearly was not ready to let go of the past. Inevitably, I ended things with him. He wasn't surprised and admitted that he wasn't sure he could ever love like that again and it wasn't fair to me. We wished each other the best and moved on. We are still friends and although we don't communicate or hang out regularly, we do have many mutual friends and occasionally bump into one another. He is still a hot mess as they say but I am forever hopeful that he will find his peace. 4
Author KRuss Posted May 8, 2014 Author Posted May 8, 2014 AncientEchos: I have been asking him to prove himself for a long time. The difference is I am post divorce 4 years. I have a very pleasant life with a lot of time to focus on someone, the right someone. I have always been very inviting, very verbal about where I am, etc. For awhile, first 2.5 months or more, he was a reserved in a sense. He wouldn't flirt back much on texts, or say much outside of, "I am really enjoying getting to know you". I was being more open. So, I decided to sit back and stop that a little, and wait for him to open up. Really, what I think did it for him is that we had been dating, met on EHarmony in a very funny story, I wasn't even a member, just on a free weekend. I had been on Match awhile, and he had been on awhile before but wasn't in last 5 months. Well, its a long story but he logged in after getting an email about his subscription about to end, and when he did I popped up at the top of his search function, 96% match. I saw him too, and it upset me. Well, after we saw one another again, on his birthday by chance, that is when he finally laid all his cards on the table about how he thought he would never find someone like me again, how he liked everything about me, and didnt have any intention of meeting anyone else, wanted to take me on a long weekend, etc. Then the following week, our last date, is when he asked me to be exclusive. He explained he had been guarded and we talked about it and he said he didnt want that to be the reason he didnt get to find out more about me. I think he "HAD ME" and when he say me online he said it visibly upset him, and i felt the same. So, the reason I have had him continue to pursue is that I didnt know how he felt, and I wanted to see what his actions were telling me. I have been very open, warm, inviting, etc. I also told him our last date when he asked for exclusivity that my concern was if he had enough time to elevate our relationship to the next level. He said he did. Now he needs to show that. We are an hour apart and I have told him and followed through on the fact that i am willing to drive his direction. We have shared that after the first few dates. I am really willing to dive in head first here...my emotions already have. But, I also feel like there is still the issue of HIM having more time for me. I don't want to drive that decision for him. I do acknowledge your point and have thought of it myself. So, I do initiate some cute texts and things. Thanks for your time and thought in writing, it is appreciated. Soccerrprp: We have dated approx weekly. For about 2.5 months after I met him he was in a crazy busy work phase, traveling, an MBO, acquisitions of property, etc. But even during that time he made time to see me. It has been consistent, and even tough he says he wants to see me more often that hasn't changed yet. It is hard as during the week his daughter has soccer and I haven't met her yet. So, we can see one another but it is harder, although if he plans and I drive down his way it is very possible. He just needs to decide to do it. Last Friday, our last date, that was the first time we spent the night with each other overnight. If he is here he drives home into the night as he wants to be there in the morning with his daughter and I can appreciate that. I did tell him last friday that a relationship at the next level requires more than weekly dating, and my concern was if he had that. He said he agreed and does, and as we open our world to others that will be easier to do. Thanks. I will make sure I am concise about communication or the lack thereof, and the time again. I want more, have for awhile, but have allowed him the time because I felt he needed it. I am ok with what I have done, but at this point almost 4 months in it is time that his actions show that he does. Michelle: I am so sorry that you were hurt. That is a very difficult thing to experience. I haven't felt like he has spoken a lot about his late wife. Initially he told me the story, and if it has pertinence to the conversation he will talk of it, but tries to make it very short and very succinct. He doesn't attach a lot of emotion to it, other than when we talked about Mothers Day being tough. It is hard when we invest where we shouldn't, I think that is why I have tried to be cautious where I place emotions and with whom. I have learned much about myself, and what i need. Hugs to you!
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