He said, now she said

[DKT3]

If you don't have more SOLID answers for YOURSELF about solutions - then YOU NEED a new counselor!

 

As much as you owe amends to DK - I can't see how you've solidly OWNED YOUR PART in it - I also think you owe amends to your OM for causing him harm as well.

 

Seriously? You have an affair - are getting divorced - and are angry enough that he's hauled off to jail? YOU caused that by misleading him.

 

 

I also think you've mislead DK into thinking you have done enough to restart a serious R. But I don't see where you have searched to the bottom of your soul to admit how YOU participated!

 

Until you understand completely how you participated - and exactly what YOU plan to do differently next time you consider cheating as YOUR solution to problems within your R - we can only assume you don't have the honesty and integrity to solve your problems differently than the last time.

 

YOUR cheating isn't about what OM did - or what your then H didn't do!

 

It is about your broken self and addressing what is broken about YOU. So broken that YOU harmed MANY people by YOUR decisions.

 

 

You skirt over the fact that this A lasted a long while. That it started long before DK was coming home that time - and you haven't been FORTHCOMING about how YOU reeled that OM in so QUICKLY that particular night!

 

Spill it sister! Because your chance to get honest is now! Protecting YOURSELF by minimizing isn't helping here!

 

Brutal honesty! That is what you need to be presenting - not excuses, not half truths, not omissions. Get honest!

 

I can assure you, I'm no fool. I have seen her break down. She is a different woman.

 

As far as the OM goes, I have said many times since I've been here you have no innocent bystanders in A's. Its like the bank robber blaming the car thief for getting caught.

 

I'm slightly bugged by why you feel so much is needed about the OM. She has offered me polygraph tests on the matter. I'm comfortable with what she has told me. Do I think I know it all? Of course not it was a freaking 2 year affair whatever levels she wants to put on it, its all the same to me.

[2sunny]

Why do I get the feeling you're being defensive right now?

 

 

If you can be honest - there's no reason to be defensive.

 

I understand I'm asking some tough questions of you - but I assure you - they are questions designed to HELP YOU GROW and understand YOURSELF, YOYR NEEDS and the way YOU can communicate all of that MORE clearly in YOUR future so that YOU can participate effectively and BUILD a more solid foundation for any relationship.

 

I'm here to help...I'm just gathering info FROM you which may help YOU grow... Please don't take my direct style as anything other than what it's designed to do = help you think further to grow into a better woman - and to challenge you to take ACTION on what YOU decide you're willing to CHANGE about YOURSELF and the way YOU participate moving FORWARD.

 

Change is up to you. BE the change YOU wish to see. I understand you've done some work in this area - but I do see you COULD BE doing MORE to HELP YOURSELF.

 

I'm hoping this works for you two - but you do need to be vulnerable enough to offer info to us so that we can make suggestions that you may consider helpful to you.

[2sunny]

 

Yes I did, I honestly missed the attention and validation. I broke it off about every time we had sex. Then I would text him.

 

So, what would be my point in coming here to lie?

 

Ok, this helps - to know what you recognize as a missing part of your M.

 

And when you aren't getting the attention and validation now from DK - have you told him what YOU need FROM HIM?

 

And is he capable of giving enough of that to you when you state it's not enough in that moment?

[2sunny]

What did the OM do that scared you?

[Fluttershy]

Lots of physco babble and bs going on here and not from the OP. Some things are not that complicated and not that difficult to simply not to again when you have taken responsibility for your actions.

 

To the couple. Keep up the good work. H don't throw hissy fits and storming off when things don't go your way. W take time to really think about why something bothers you and if it should be and communicate that. And love each other and your child.

[DKT3]

I think you are honest in expressing how the divorce affect you and your kids, and how seeing him with a younger and adoring (must have been healing for him) GF. I hope you have spent some time on separating these reasons from your desire to be back with him. Your desire to be with him should be very clear and not clouded.

 

Has the "younger version" of yourself been set aside? I wonder how she feels about your return and I assume she was dumped ?

 

Strange coincidence - when single I dated a divorced woman who said he husband left her for a younger version of herself. I met them once and she was not kidding she was the spitting image of her - just nearly 12 years younger (I mean she was 19! WTF?). Also strange - they did get back together and remarry - and have more kids and divorced again 7 years later as much of their old dynamic returned.

 

She was a wonderful young lady. We were in different places in life. She was 27 looking to start a family, I was 36 having been divorced for less then a year not looking to have kids by a different woman. We ended a very short relationship and she moved to chicago shortly after that.

 

She did look like Lovin both were about 5'9" both about 1¿? pounds(not dumb enough to post that), dark hair green eyes.

 

It took me about 3 months to tell lovin she moved. She would ask all the time about her. It was a small part revenage knowing it stoked her fire.

 

And before anyone asks, nothing happened with her before I was divorced. Like I said it was about a year after.

[dichotomy]

Another question - sorry if this has been asked/answered, but did you ever share the old emails, texts, PM?

 

As a BH, i get and understand the anger and harsh comments towards you. After reading all that has happened - before and after the divorce. I think it is worth a try at reconciling, in many steps, with long term couples therapy, and with some legal agreements at the end if you remarry. Just my two cents.

[compulsivedancer]

I don't know if I should, but I can clear it up. She never admitted to anything until after she was served. She made the already tried that comment while we were fighting then quickly backed off and said she was trying to get a reaction out of me. To the best of my knowledge the physical A had already ended by this point.

 

During the 14 months of hell she blamed me for the A that she was still claiming she didn't have. Fu#@ed up right? In the real world whe both knew, she knew I knew. She just would fess up.

 

Lovin wants me to comment on this thread, I don't think I will after this, its her side of the story to tell.

 

DKT and lovin, H and I are both on LS. I am told that doesn't always work out well. The way we handle this is: we don't comment on each others' threads (generally), since we don't want to start arguing on LS, and that would make it easy.

 

The two or three times he has started a thread, I have a thread going at the same time, so those who want to ask me questions can ask there. It makes for confusing reading later, but is a lot easier during the conversation.

 

I do not "correct" his posts, even though I sometimes disagree with the way he sees things or remembers them. Again, this keep us from arguing on LS.

 

A month or two ago, H revealed on LS that I was still googling OM, which caused a firestorm of indignation to reign down on me from the community, in part caused by the fact that so many people here have been following our story since June and are rooting for us. They were angry that I lied to LS and felt betrayed. It was not fun, and they would not let me carry on on LS until I had answered their questions and explained myself.

 

Now, I have no issue with a H and W posting, but I just wanted to tell you about our experience and remind you to have some ground rules in place about posting.

 

Best of luck!

[compulsivedancer]

My thoughts: it sounds like you two have had a long and hard road to get to where you're at now. As you move forward in your relationship, keep in mind the growth and changes you've made. Approach this as a NEW relationship not as a continuation of the OLD. Grow and change together.

 

I imagine it would be very easy to slip back into old ways of doing things, and that didn't really work out. So now you have the chance to start anew (yes, with the knowledge of the past). But make sure you set your foundations well, etc.

 

If you do that, I think you'll do wonderful.

 

Does DKT still work the job that has him out of town for long periods of time?

[Buckeye2]

My point with 2sunny is words mean nothing. I could write ten pages of words about how and why I would never do it again. Problem is what makes my words different? I told DKT all those things before and then I was unfaithful.

 

This is honest and exactly correct. That’s why I think the perfect solution is to never get remarried. You can live together, raise your kids together and make a well intentioned try at monogamy.

 

 

But don’t get remarried because, as stated by lovin, what make those words different the second time around?

 

 

After reading many posts I’ve found that a common problem is the BS feeling that the WS got away with the affair after R. There were no significant repercussions for the WS. Being divorced is a symbol that a price was paid.

 

 

If there is cheating again, then it will not hurt as much if you are not married. The only negative thing I can think of if you don't remarry is health insurance.

[Fluttershy]

This is honest and exactly correct. That’s why I think the perfect solution is to never get remarried. You can live together, raise your kids together and make a well intentioned try at monogamy.

 

 

But don’t get remarried because, as stated by lovin, what make those words different the second time around?

 

 

After reading many posts I’ve found that a common problem is the BS feeling that the WS got away with the affair after R. There were no significant repercussions for the WS. Being divorced is a symbol that a price was paid.

 

 

If there is cheating again, then it will not hurt as much if you are not married. The only negative thing I can think of if you don't remarry is health insurance.

 

Nobody ever answers me when I ask but is there really that much protection in not getting married doen there. Are there no common law laws or do people just not realize they have them? And if there is no laws and such that may protect you physicaly but how does it change the devestation of being cheated on or even make a break a "clean one" especially if a child is involved?

[lovinDKT3]

So Lovin - were YOU the one to start things back up with OM or no? Be honest!

 

We have nothing to work with here if you're not going to OFFER us HONESTY...

 

DKT and lovin, H and I are both on LS. I am told that doesn't always work out well. The way we handle this is: we don't comment on each others' threads (generally), since we don't want to start arguing on LS, and that would make it easy.

 

The two or three times he has started a thread, I have a thread going at the same time, so those who want to ask me questions can ask there. It makes for confusing reading later, but is a lot easier during the conversation.

 

I do not "correct" his posts, even though I sometimes disagree with the way he sees things or remembers them. Again, this keep us from arguing on LS.

 

A month or two ago, H revealed on LS that I was still googling OM, which caused a firestorm of indignation to reign down on me from the community, in part caused by the fact that so many people here have been following our story since June and are rooting for us. They were angry that I lied to LS and felt betrayed. It was not fun, and they would not let me carry on on LS until I had answered their questions and explained myself.

 

Now, I have no issue with a H and W posting, but I just wanted to tell you about our experience and remind you to have some ground rules in place about posting.

 

Best of luck!

 

Its tough to read people telling DKT that I'm not worth it, so I get what your saying.

 

We are new to this me moreso then him. He thinks we shouldn't reply directly to the others posts.

[2sunny]

Ok, I understand. I wish you both well and much happiness.

[compulsivedancer]

Its tough to read people telling DKT that I'm not worth it, so I get what your saying.

 

We are new to this me moreso then him. He thinks we shouldn't reply directly to the others posts.

 

It's up to you - whatever works best for you and DKT. This is just how it worked best for us. I've heard of a few horror stories with H and Ws posting together.

 

I think that when you first post your story as a WS, there is a bit of a hazing process on LS. Part of that is people who mean well (like 2sunny) and just want to know that you are genuinely remorseful. You actually haven't had any of the really ugly posts so far. Hopefully you will get to sidestep that, but I wouldn't hold my breath. LS is fairly quiet on the weekends.

 

On the other hand, there are also some really supportive people here with some really great advice. I try to approach it with as thick a skin as possible. Part of that is knowing that I did some truly awful things and deserve a certain amount of it, and part of it is knowing that I'm not that person any more and so those words don't hurt as much as they could.

[compulsivedancer]

Also, I've found that when people ask what seem like rhetorical questions, a lot of them are really great for helping you along and helping to clarify your thoughts. I try to remind myself to not treat them as rhetorical and really think them through.

 

You are much further along past DDay than I am, so you may also be further along that path of self-discovery. But sometimes the questions surprise you, and so do your own answers. It's worth a try.

[2sunny]

I asked a multitude of questions that weren't necessarily meant to be answered to me or here.

 

My idea was to hopefully spark some significant conversations between the two of you!

 

Heck, I don't care if you don't ever answer - but I would be happy if my constant questions helped your R to grow and learn how your R can get better.

[lovinDKT3]

I asked a multitude of questions that weren't necessarily meant to be answered to me or here.

 

My idea was to hopefully spark some significant conversations between the two of you!

 

Heck, I don't care if you don't ever answer - but I would be happy if my constant questions helped your R to grow and learn how your R can get better.

 

DKT is super protective of me, he is with his family and those who know about my A. He wants to be here also. I told him no one can beat me up any worse then I did to myself. I have no problem with the questions outside of those about OM and that is because a lot of that stuff is new to DKT.

[lovinDKT3]

To answer a few other questions.

 

DKT no longer travels for work but he still work a lot of hours and odd times he is working over nights now. We don't live together so its not an issue.

 

We went two days with that no sex thing, then I watched him working out it was over.

 

Thanks to everyone here helping us along.

[2sunny]

I don't know why he would try to protect you... You're a strong woman capable of taking care of yourself.

 

If anyone asks and you don't want to answer - don't answer.

 

Just practice honesty between the two of you. You owe him honesty to repair the relationship.

 

Challenge yourselves to find a NEW relationship that works for you.

 

People may have suggestions you wish to try - and some may not - do what works for you two as long as you don't leave it the same as it was... That is your PAST.

 

I wish whichwayisup was around - she's a solid voice of reasoning around here... Maybe she will drop in tomorrow.

 

Be your own person above all else! ;-)

[lovinDKT3]

I don't know why he would try to protect you... You're a strong woman capable of taking care of yourself.

 

If anyone asks and you don't want to answer - don't answer.

 

Just practice honesty between the two of you. You owe him honesty to repair the relationship.

 

Challenge yourselves to find a NEW relationship that works for you.

 

People may have suggestions you wish to try - and some may not - do what works for you two as long as you don't leave it the same as it was... That is your PAST.

 

I wish whichwayisup was around - she's a solid voice of reasoning around here... Maybe she will drop in tomorrow.

 

Be your own person above all else! ;-)

 

I have no problem with question like I said, it just those about OM, knowing that DKT is reading.

 

As to why he is so protective, he has always been that way. No I don't need it anymore, maybe at one point I did.

[whichwayisup]

Life is short and if you two have found your way back to each other for whatever reason(s), then do your absolute best together to work hard to forgive and find peace so you two can have a life together again. Obviously the love is still there. Do counseling together and apart, post here and speak from your hearts, always be honest no matter what.

 

Good luck, I hope you both work through it and come out shining..

[revelations]

Lovin:

 

It seems like your A has cause a real sh*tstorm in your life and the lives of others. Now much like your BH is on the fence about R with you I am on the fence if he should also. You had made some very bad mistakes after choosing to betray your BH. However you have also paid a very dear price for it and you are still paying a price. From what you have said, you have been working for roughly the past 5 yrs trying to win the love of your BH back. You have stood by while he dated other women that were very much a threat to you. If I go by that you are 100% honest about not dating or banging any other men since the divorce then I am very impressed. You may not understand the full magnitude of the hurt you cause your BH. However you understand enough to know that it was real bad and your trying your best to make amends. To me that puts you way ahead of most WW's I see on here.

 

Now I am not trying to put you down by saying this, but you need to understand something. You have actually ruined your BH for all other women out their. I don't mean that in a good way like you have great skills in bed that no woman can compete with. I mean that in a bad way, in a way that you have done changed him to his very core. Your BH will have a much harder time to give trust to another woman. Staying with you is just as bad if not worse, he already knows you have cheated on him. He knows that you have enjoyed another man inside of you and shared yourself in ways that was suppose to be only for him. Every time he looks at you he is reminded of that. Anytime you make love he is wondering if you did it like this with the OM, or if you were more wild. He may wonder if you enjoyed the OM more in bed than him. There are probably a thousand more things running through your BH's mind. In a very profound way you showed and proved to your husband that he was #2 during the affair.

 

Now after what you have done and all you have been through you have a second chance to build a new relationship with DKT3. That means some work for you and very heavy lifting. Remember that you have shattered his trust in you and his perspective. So you not only need to show, but prove to him that your a trustworthy woman now. First off I would suggest that you two may not want to remarry and instead work towards the gold of living together. By getting married again is only asking him to take a risk that he was already burned on once before by you and serves no real purpose.

 

To show that you are trustworthy will take some action on your part. Aside from the normal, giving him all your passwords, access to phone and all of that I would go a few steps farther. One is that I would install and show him that you have a GPS tracker either on your car or cell phone, even both of them. If their is a fee for the service, you pay for it and give him access to it. Let your BH know that you are doing this so that he does not have to second guess where you are at. Oh you offered to do a polygraph for your BH, that is awesome. When I read that it was a big plus in my book. Offer to show him your bank statements each month if he wants to look at them, let him know that you will show him were every dime you spent went to. Their may be other things that will make your BH suspicious or trigger. Talk with him and find out what they are and correct it. If he goes out of town for work and that triggers him offer to go with if possible. If not offer ways to set his mind at ease. Maybe picking up and staying with your parents or other siblings while he is gone? Offer to send pictures of you and the kids at the house with a time and date stamp. A current newspaper or such item with a date on it works well also. Bottom line is really listen to your BH about what is bothering him. Right now even something that seems small can turn into something major.

 

Working on trust has to go hand in hand with proving to your BH that he is #1 in your life. Remember he was competing with OM without even knowing it and lost. However your BH can in no way compete with the OM because the OM was forbidden fruit which adds a whole new layer to the passion you shared with the OM. Anything your BH wants to know about the sex you have had you should tell him honestly and bluntly with no emotions to it. If OM was great in bed then tell your BH that he was. However follow it up by letting him know that the major reason was that he was different or it was the situation and not the OM himself. Whatever the reason was just be honest about it. Do not give your BH details that he does not want to hear, remember to let him control what information he wants. You need to really step up and prove to your BH more than ever that he is #1 both in and out of the bedroom.

 

To do this we can combine it with making a daily living amends to him. After all you cannot go bag and unbang the OM so you have to prove why you want your BH over the OM. This may not bother your BH, however one thing that had always bothered me was hearing "I chose you over him". To me a real bad and insulting thing to say to a BS. Instead I would word it "I made a poor choice to be with the OM when I have always wanted you". See the difference? Your BH is no longer a calculated decision, now his is the object of desire. First step in proving that the BH is #1 to you. You have a big advantage being that you two are still living apart from each other. Use that to show your desire for him and create new and fond memories with your BH. Get someone to watch the kids, then put on an overcoat. Does not need to be fancy just something to cover yourself up with because you will be nude under it. Grab the pizza and beer (or whatever his favorite drink is) that you have already gotten and call him up. Tell him that you want to see him for an hour and ask to come over. Show up wearing only that overcoat holding the beer and pizza. Set them down, drop your coat, get on your knees and give him some fantastic oral. Once our done just tell him that you needed to do that and you thought he might want some pizza and beer after, then leave. Surprising your BH with stuff like that can go along ways to repair a damaged relationship. By putting his needs above yours for awhile will help repair that damage that was caused during the A.

 

An important thing to remember is that he may not always be okay to receive such gestures of love from you. Be ready for that, nothing is worse to a BH who is pining about your affair only to see you bouncing in all happy. At that point the last thing they want to see is you being happy. So it is important to call first or get a general idea of what his mood is at that time. Since you two are just dating this is another opportunity for you. Instead of letting him pursue you, you do the pursuing. Call him up and ask him out, ask him were he wants to go. Pick him up and pay for the date. Mind you that it may seem a bit unusual, however it does show that you are willing to go to any lengths to be with him. I will give you this, and that is that you have already gone to great lengths by waiting for him while he was out dating. So doing stuff like this should be easy for you. Don't forget gifts also and I mean the gifts that he would like. This can be anything from a hand made card to a new fishing pole or wrench, whatever his fancy is. Build that new relationship with him and prove to him that your a new woman. Show your BH that their was a reason that he wanted you before and that he should want you now. Create new memories for your BH, trust me pizza and beer after showing up in nothing but an overcoat is something that he would remember.

 

All being said I would normally suggest to DKT3 to stay away from you. Is what changed my mind about that was reading about some of the things that have transpired between you two. You offering to take a polygraph, you waiting by and trying to win his love while he was dating other women. You not being with another man while he was dating. I know that had to hurt you a great deal. To me that shows that you understand to a degree what harm you have caused and are willing to go to any lengths to make amends for it. If you stay the course of being 100% honest with him and faithful, take some extra steps to prove he is extra special to you, you may find yourself under the same roof with him again. Do your best to learn what your BS's perspective is about the affair and what hurts him the most. Remember that men and women are different and it is not just the plumbing that is different. So use these tools to help your BH feel safe with you and wanted by you. So far you are one of the few WW's on here that I would cautiously tell a BH "Hmm, well you might want to give her a second chance, just be careful about it". Normally I would never give a WW a second chance, however if my WW did what your doing, then I just might bend my rule a bit to see what happens. Best of luck to both of you.

[lovinDKT3]

My A was never about passion or sex. Some may not believe it but sex was horrible with OM, I'm honestly not just saying that. It was the price I paid for the attention and validation I got from a man who made me #1 in his life. It was selfish and short sighted.

 

I often thought why can't I have this with DKT. It was always him I wanted, I just wasn't getting that from him. It was my fault because I failed to communicate that to him.

 

I avoided sex with OM, it wasn't what I needed from him, DKT was more then enough in that area. I just needed to feel important, it felt like I always came second to his career.

 

This is in no way an attempt to justify or blame shift. I made the selfish and hurtful decisions and did so over and over again. All the while telling myself it was only because my marriage was over.

 

Once DKT was on to the A and I saw the look on his face followed by the cold and distant attitude he had I knew I couldn't lose this man. The fog was lifted. My goal at the point was to put some distance between the A and me confessing. Maybe he won't be so hurt and upset in a week, a month or two. Then I can tell him. After about six months he went totally cold and couldn't even look at me. I guess I knew he would leave me at that point. Before I thought I could make amends, I thought no matter what he would never leave we would be together for ever. After all he is still here.

 

I just don't understand why I couldn't confess. He knew, we both knew that, yet I lied. Hoping that if I denied it long enough he would let it go. Flawed thinking I know, but its all I thought I had at that point.

[revelations]

Okay you may not have actually shared passion with the OM. However please understand that most BH's will play mind movies of their WW's having some of the best sex with the OM. Hopefully you read my entire previous post and will incorporate some of it or a variant of my suggestions.

 

I tend to embellish a little bit about the sex to drive a point home. That point is that each time you were banging the OM you knew exactly what was going on, what you were thinking, how you were feeling, how much or how little pleasure you were getting. Your husband can only go by your word that now he cannot trust. Mind movies take over and get worse. Truthfully you could have been laying on the bed with the OM saying "get it over with" or "is it in yet". However a BH may have a mind movie playing were your saying "It's so big I don't know if I can get it all in but I will try".

 

I do want to see you work it out with DKT3, and I think that you have a good shot at it. You have been doing a lot of things right to win back your BH and I would encourage you to keep it up and even do more. I will tell you that in my case my xWW (notice the x?) cheated on my by preforming my fantasy for another man then made sure to give me every detail about how much he enjoyed it and herself. Then told me that not only would she never do that for me, she would be happy to let me know what I am missing out on. Then I got the normal, get over it, it was a long time ago, etc. type of crap. To this day I have not even dated another woman for any length of time and will not allow a woman I am dating into my house. Truthfully it is not about being bitter, it is about protecting myself.

 

So when I see a WW such as yourself that is trying her best to win back the love of her BH I am proud of you. I share little suggestions in the hopes that you will follow them. Those suggestions are things I would have wanted to see or hear from my xWW. I suggest those adult things like a surprise BJ for your BH for a reason. Their is an old joke about how to win a woman's favor. You bring flowers and a card. Take her to dinner and dancing. Write a poem for her.. Now to win a man's favor, show up naked and bring beer. Two major things that most men see as a language of love. Sex, the kind you have done before and they kind you are trying with him for the first time. Food, most men will see a good home cooked meal as a sign of love. So hit your man right above and right below the belt.

 

Wish you all the best, keep up the good work.

[DKT3]

I don't know why he would try to protect you... You're a strong woman capable of taking care of yourself.

 

I protect her because I love her and I will not allow anyone to hurt her. Sounds slightly odd since I've hurt her more over the past 20+ years then anyone.