janedoe67 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 .....and, if so, is there ever a situation in which she is worthy of being truly forgiven and loved again? If we don't exist and cheating really does permanently ruin us, I'd just like to have it settled so I can stop torturing myself. The roller coaster is debilitating and I'm tired of crying.
RonaldS Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Bad joke deleted Edited May 2, 2014 by RonaldS
cocorico Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 .....and, if so, is there ever a situation in which she is worthy of being truly forgiven and loved again? If we don't exist and cheating really does permanently ruin us, I'd just like to have it settled so I can stop torturing myself. The roller coaster is debilitating and I'm tired of crying. Depends on whether you're talking about LS or RL. IRL definitely, I know several personally. Unless you knew them at the time of the indiscretion, you would not know from the state of their M now that it had faced infidelity, or that the FWW had "transgressed". On LS, I'm not so sure. Even some of those who claim to be happily R seem to have a staunch undercurrent of resentment - though there are a few who do seem genuinely reconciled - and it does not seem to take much to trigger all the anger and bitterness from their original betrayal, which suggests to those reading their posts that they're not as "over it" as they like to believe. Depends on which matters more to you, I guess - being at peace with those who matter to you IRL, or convincing a bunch of strange people on a bulletin board who have an axe to grind. 1
carhill Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 What is a FWW? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/off-topic/water-cooler/228723-loveshack-terminology-guide-acronyms-forum-shorthand#post2756496 To the topic, it depends on people's life view. If we always are everything we have been and forever, then no one can be a former anything. OTOH, if we accept change and who we are today and where we want to be tomorrow, it's possible to apply 'former' to who we were in the past. IMO, it really depends on the individual. In the wider view, society will judge as they see fit, whether that be socially or legally. As an example, I will never again be a single male. Legally, I will always be considered to be divorced, even though I'm not in a relationship right now, nor married. It's a label which is applied. The same for MM. I could be labeled as a MM, even though I'm not in a relationship nor married. I was a MM at one time in my past. Does that describe me today? Factually, no. Perceptively, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Rinse and repeat with any other label. OP, I hope you find your peace. I can state that counseling helped me greatly in that regard. Life is short. Best wishes! 2
Bigcitydreamer Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Personally I think that someone who has cheated and is truly remorseful for their actions can find forgiveness within themselves. People make mistakes, no one is perfect. It's unfortunate that you went against your values and are now struggling with these emotions. It's infortunate for your spouse also, but I do believe within time you can move on from this as the other posters have said above.
Under The Radar Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Is there really such a thing as a FWW? The answer is yes. Is there ever a situation in which she is worthy of being truly forgiven and loved again? The answer is yes. Forgiveness and love starts with ourselves. You are still in the acute stage of grieving your "old self". You are not that person anymore, yet still dwell in the abyss due to guilt. It will take time, but happiness and peace will come ...... you need to believe that. 2
Author janedoe67 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Posted May 2, 2014 It is hard. I see and feel and KNOW changes in myself. Then - wham - I am hit with something and all I can see is that the majority of my life never really mattered. I KNOW in my head it is not true, but it feels true at times. When that happens, I ping-pong between grief at what I gave up and anger that I have to be frozen there. Funny, stbx asked me what was wrong recently, and I blew it off. He gave me "that look" and said "Stop it. You are not a dirty sinner. Don't teach our kids that sin defines you forever." Ouch, but I know he is right. Thing is, should I be realistic as well? Bottom line, for some people, if one of my kids really blows it one day, they WILL be frozen in that time. It's like the friend I have whose daughter married a man of a different race. She loved him and was happy about the marriage. She was also straight with her daughter about how SOME people were going to be. So shouldn't I tell my kids that God and the people who know you will probably see your changes, but the rest of the world may categorize you by your flaws forever, so be careful? It's two or three wonderful steps forward IRL and then I have some time t spin in the virtual world, and it's a couple of crushing, slapping, stomach-punching steps back.
WasOtherWoman Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 In my humble opinion, the only one who's thoughts matter on this are those of your husband. If he forgives you, loves you and you both have done the work necessary to forge ahead with a great marriage and he is willing.. move on! Besides my parents, the ONLY person whose opinion of me matters to me is that of my husband. Take this as a learning experience that you don't wish to repeat.... forgive yourself. 4
Under The Radar Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Yes, SOME people will hold your sins against you forever ...... but, that is only SOME people ...... you need not concern yourself with those individuals. There are definitely people in the world who will accept you for your past ...... especially because you choose to be honest and your repentance is sincere. It's both normal and understandable to be set back a step or two on occasion. When that happens do not beat yourself up over it. Instead, use it as constructive ammunition to REMEMBER invaluable lessons you have learned through this painful process. Use it to REMIND yourself who you wish to be and what mistakes you never want to repeat again. Use it as a moral compass and learning experience to better yourself ...... THEN take one, two, or three steps forwards ...... repeating when necessary. Trust me when I say God and your husband are not the only ones who forgive ...... I promise you that . Edited May 3, 2014 by Training Revelations 2
Fluttershy Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 Here is te thing? Do you really care what arrogent, self righteous, critical, judgemental people think of you? Is their "favour" really worth beans to you? 2
Grumpybutfun Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 Jane, until you forgive yourself, nothing else matters. Forgiveness is a powerful cleanser, it is the water and the purity and the beginnings of a new day. You don't have to live in your past forever, regardless of your guilt. My wife has this great painting in our hallway...it says... In this house, we believe in forgiveness, we believe in second chances and self love. In this house we believe in ILoveYous not just when we do the right thing, but sometimes the wrong things too. In this house we believe in I'm sorrys and I forgive yous...in this house we show compassion to each other and to ourselves. Time to forgive yourself and show yourself some compassion. We all do things we regret, and the ones who are truly contrite are forgiven. I think over the years you've been more contrite than any other FWW on this forum...so stop being a FWW and just be Jane again. It's time to release and let go. Other memories and events and acts of love will erase this terrible event for others after you lift your head and stop reminding them of your shame. Best, Grumps 5
anne1707 Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 Grumpy is right Jane. This isn't about what others think of you, it is what you think of yourself that is causing all these questions and doubts. Moving on from an affair is more than being forgiven by those you hurt. You also have to forgive yourself. You have to let go of the disgust and anger you feel for what you did and recognise that you have now changed, that you have learnt from the experience and that you are now a better person. Find your self-respect Jane and you will see that those who matter also respect you. There will always be naysayers but are they really the people you want around you (even if you had never had an affair)? 5
Under The Radar Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 Jane, until you forgive yourself, nothing else matters. Forgiveness is a powerful cleanser, it is the water and the purity and the beginnings of a new day. You don't have to live in your past forever, regardless of your guilt. My wife has this great painting in our hallway...it says... In this house, we believe in forgiveness, we believe in second chances and self love. In this house we believe in ILoveYous not just when we do the right thing, but sometimes the wrong things too. In this house we believe in I'm sorrys and I forgive yous...in this house we show compassion to each other and to ourselves. Time to forgive yourself and show yourself some compassion. We all do things we regret, and the ones who are truly contrite are forgiven. I think over the years you've been more contrite than any other FWW on this forum...so stop being a FWW and just be Jane again. It's time to release and let go. Other memories and events and acts of love will erase this terrible event for others after you lift your head and stop reminding them of your shame. Best, Grumps ^^^^^THIS X 1000^^^^^ Stop labeling yourself and just be Jane again ...... ...... Jane WHO IS forgiven ...... WHO IS completely worthy ...... and WHO IS absolutely lovable. Read it, memorize it, and most importantly ...... live it. 2
compulsivedancer Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 Jane, are you feeling tempted to cheat again? Because if you are, that's a different issue. And what matters, what adds that little "f" to the WW is what you do with it. Do you take measures to make sure it won't happen again: discuss it with H or your therapist, distance yourself from the person and thoughts, etc? If this is not the issue, then what Grumps said is the real answer. You have to learn to forgive yourself and move forward. One thing I've wondered: is being on LS still helping you, or is it holding you back? 2
BetrayedH Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 Janedoe67, Thank you for your query. You may not be aware but the Loveshack Community has an established committee that routinely convenes to review such requests. As head of the committee, I'm glad to inform you that following a comprehensive review of your posts against a stringent set of qualifying criteria, the committee has unanimously voted to grant your request for 'former' wayward wife status. As we like to say, you have officially earned your 'f.' Congratulations. Kind regards, BetrayedH Chair, LoveShack 'Former' Committee 6
Author janedoe67 Posted May 3, 2014 Author Posted May 3, 2014 Jane, are you feeling tempted to cheat again? Because if you are, that's a different issue. And what matters, what adds that little "f" to the WW is what you do with it. Do you take measures to make sure it won't happen again: discuss it with H or your therapist, distance yourself from the person and thoughts, etc? If this is not the issue, then what Grumps said is the real answer. You have to learn to forgive yourself and move forward. One thing I've wondered: is being on LS still helping you, or is it holding you back? I have no urge or desire to cheat, even if meeting someone "might" be a gray area now. I am not even in tat realm. And even if I do ever in the future have a relationship it won't be until I have worked on myself. And no matter what my past, I'm NOT going to resign myself to being" low hanging fruit." I'd rather be alone than be with a bum because" that's all a former cheater deserves." Anyway, maybe the internet isn't all that great for me. But I have a stubborn streak; nobody is going to" make" Me leave somewhere passively or actively. Part of me feels if I respond to other's bitter projection by running away, they win. 1
HermioneG Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 I absolutely believe in the title of former. Grumpy and Anne said it very well- the person who labels you the most...is you. Gently, I have watched you make gigantic strides forward. And then you will make digs at yourself and imagine slights against you that aren't occurring. And I think it causes you angst, because you have not found peace with yourself. So you are both beating up on yourself, and in the name of that, projecting imagined opinions onto yourself from others. Of course there are fools who pop in on some threads and say terrible things. They say them to you, to me, to lots of people. And it's a reflection of what is wrong with them, not any of us- whether it's a former wayward like yourself, or a former betrayed, like me. But I think in the vast majority of instances on this forum, the person who is hardest on you, is you. And I wish you'd knock that off, because you don't deserve it. 5
BetrayedH Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 I absolutely believe in the title of former. Grumpy and Anne said it very well- the person who labels you the most...is you. Gently, I have watched you make gigantic strides forward. And then you will make digs at yourself and imagine slights against you that aren't occurring. And I think it causes you angst, because you have not found peace with yourself. So you are both beating up on yourself, and in the name of that, projecting imagined opinions onto yourself from others. Of course there are fools who pop in on some threads and say terrible things. They say them to you, to me, to lots of people. And it's a reflection of what is wrong with them, not any of us- whether it's a former wayward like yourself, or a former betrayed, like me. But I think in the vast majority of instances on this forum, the person who is hardest on you, is you. And I wish you'd knock that off, because you don't deserve it. Quoted for truth. 1
Author janedoe67 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Posted May 4, 2014 Janedoe67, Thank you for your query. You may not be aware but the Loveshack Community has an established committee that routinely convenes to review such requests. As head of the committee, I'm glad to inform you that following a comprehensive review of your posts against a stringent set of qualifying criteria, the committee has unanimously voted to grant your request for 'former' wayward wife status. As we like to say, you have officially earned your 'f.' Congratulations. Kind regards, BetrayedH Chair, LoveShack 'Former' Committee In the immortal words of my youngest: You're a butt.
The Like Fairy Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 In the immortal words of my youngest: You're a butt. I don't think so. Betrayed H made a very clever and cute joke there for you. 1
yellowmaverick Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 .....and, if so, is there ever a situation in which she is worthy of being truly forgiven and loved again? If we don't exist and cheating really does permanently ruin us, I'd just like to have it settled so I can stop torturing myself. The roller coaster is debilitating and I'm tired of crying. I am sorry that you are still stuck on the rollercoaster. Your past has not ruined you, Jane. You have the rest of your life to be the person you want to be. One day at a time, Jane. 2
BetrayedH Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I don't think so. Betrayed H made a very clever and cute joke there for you. It's one that my son would call an 'epic fail.' In all seriousness jane, I think you greatly underestimate the support for you around here. It sounded like your husband wants you to forgive yourself, too. And you're smart enough to know that your actions at one time in your life don't define the entirety of your life or 'you' as a person. You also know that your 'bad' actions don't negate your husband's bad actions. That stuff isn't rocket science. And you know that those who would never forgive and those that would permanently label you are very likely thinking about how much they hate their own wayward wife. Hell, I hurt anne's feelings once by doing it myself (note: she's probably my favorite poster around here). As it turns out, I like almost all of your posts, too, except for these self-deprecating ones. You're damn smart and sound like a BS most of the time. I don't blame you for much of your angst because I think it's a sign of a truly remorseful former wayward wife. It's a big cross to bear. But I joke with you about it because I think it's obvious that you've earned your 'f.' You're alright in my book. I also have to add that I 'get' what it's like to be in a sexless marriage. 7 years of bullcrap is what I put up with. It's its own form of betraying vows in my opinion. Your husband doesn't get a free pass as far as I'm concerned. 2
Author janedoe67 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Posted May 4, 2014 I got Betrayed's joke and thought it was funny. That is why I called him a butt. Gosh people... Honestly, I know what I need to do to keep from triggering, I just forget when things are good. BUT I am going to take care of that right now. 2
AlwaysGrowing Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 Hey Jane, We both know that there are some posters that have to have their angle highlighted in every single thread they respond to. That is why, for me, it is easy to dismiss their POV, as they are constantly defending each and every choice/decision they have ever made OR the posters who have a copy and paste rant that never addresses the issue/question posed. Once one no longer feels related to their past....we let go of it. No need for an "F", no need for any hat badge.....we evolve...we weave it into the new tapestry of who we are...to make us that much stronger than we were before. Some chapters in my life have been closed with THE END. Others...are wonderful tales still being written. 4
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