Cpt Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Infidelity was considered a fault in all court systems around the world. - Those who have cheated, would you have cheated? and those who are currently cheating, would you still cheat? - Those betrayed sometime ago and R, would you still have R? Those who have recently been betrayed and considering R, would you R? This is all under the pretence that a WS would lose a majority in the court and the BS would gain the majority from the court if a D happened. Really would be interested to know your opinions.
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Infidelity was considered a fault in all court systems around the world. - Those who have cheated, would you have cheated? and those who are currently cheating, would you still cheat? - Those betrayed sometime ago and R, would you still have R? Those who have recently been betrayed and considering R, would you R? This is all under the pretence that a WS would lose a majority in the court and the BS would gain the majority from the court if a D happened. Really would be interested to know your opinions. I would support any social movement interested in reversing the idea that the courts have any legal or punitive say in what I do or do not do with my body because the fact is neither my Spouse nor the court own me. A short trip to google will tell you how it's legally "handled" in many Muslim countries: Stoning is set out as a specific punishment for adultery under several interpretations of sharia or Islamic law. In some instances, even a woman saying she has been raped can be considered an admission to the crime of zina (sex outside marriage). In one case cited by Shameem, a 13-year-old Somali girl, Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, was buried up to her neck and stoned by 50 men in front of 1,000 people at a stadium in Kismayu in 2008. Her father told Amnesty International she had been raped by three men but was accused of adultery when she tried to report the rape to the al-Shabaab militia in control of the city.
Author Cpt Posted May 1, 2014 Author Posted May 1, 2014 I would support any social movement interested in reversing the idea that the courts have any legal or punitive say in what I do or do not do with my body because the fact is neither my Spouse nor the court own me. I disagree, all I got from this is "me me me me me". - By signging that contract and saying those vows, you do give yourself to your spouse, regardless of how you see it. - If you commit a crime, the courts own you. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. My original question has nothing to do with what you just said.
janedoe67 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I don't think it would have factored in for my because I was so self-centered, resentful, and "desperate," the last thing on my mind when I made the awful choice to cheat was "Is this legal?" Regarding the whole Muslim thing, I would be interested to know how many people on LS think an adulterous woman (Because the men seem to be irrelevant) should be stoned? It would be interesting and probably not surprising to take THAT poll.
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I disagree, all I got from this is "me me me me me". - By signging that contract and saying those vows, you do give yourself to your spouse, regardless of how you see it. - If you commit a crime, the courts own you. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. My original question has nothing to do with what you just said. The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation. Likewise, I do not wish the state to create laws to protect ME from things I am capable of dealing with myself. The state is not here to stop us from behaving badly, nor to make laws to stop us from doing things that we shouldn't do that are not their business. The entire issue of linking property division to infidelity is already a thing of the past. "Women and other Chattel". Divorce was once made legal if the woman confessed her infidelity publicly before the court. The times, they are a changing, even if some still want to use laws for personal profit if their spouse steps out Obviously I am also against states that have sodomy laws. And your proposal is just that, the state gets to screw me up the backend for things I did in the privacy of my life. Edited May 1, 2014 by fellini
iris219 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 This would be an awful idea. What about people who lie about someone cheating to get money? This "law" would just be a disaster. I was cheated on by a partner when I was young. At the time, if we had been married, I probably would have wanted to punish him, but I know now I would have felt terrible about doing so. It would have been pointless. We are both happy now. He wouldn't have deserved any legal consequences. I don't think making laws about this sort thing will change human behavior. It might just make people sneakier.
nightmare01 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Infidelity was considered a fault in all court systems around the world. - Those who have cheated, would you have cheated? and those who are currently cheating, would you still cheat? - Those betrayed sometime ago and R, would you still have R? Those who have recently been betrayed and considering R, would you R? This is all under the pretence that a WS would lose a majority in the court and the BS would gain the majority from the court if a D happened. Really would be interested to know your opinions. I think this would be a good thing in theory. But there are always unintended consequences. One of which might be that fewer WS confess. If a D court would weigh infidelity in regard to the property settlement, I think it would be a good thing. In some states in the US "alienation of affection" law suits allow the BS to sue the OP. I think that would be a good thing. Had these laws been in place on my Dday. I think I would still have attempted R. But had my WW not done the work (as she has not) then I probably would have D her. Of course that threat, that she would loose financially and that I would sue OM, may have driven her to work harder at winning me back. Interesting question.
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Of course that threat, that she would loose financially and that I would sue OM, may have driven her to work harder at winning me back. Wishful thinking. The end effect could equally have been she would have bent over BACKWARDS to CONVINCE you she was winning you back to REMOVE any further possibility of losing in court over her affair. LATER, she would just divorce you plain out and make sure she got 50% This is what happened to someone I know well. Her husband was videotaped by the BS of his MOW, enough evidence to allow my friend to sue for damages of about 3 million dollars. When the WS found this out, his lawyer convinced him to TRY to get back into the house IF ONLY FOR ONE NIGHT. Had she done that she would have lost her ability to claim against him for damages resulting from the affair. This is the kind of world we create when we act according to state laws, and not our moral codes.
ThatsJustHowIRoll Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Slippery slope. Everyone has autonomy over their own body. The state should not be legislating for that. I think if that were to happen, people just wouldn't marry. Marriage does not look attractive a when the state says what you a can or can't do with your own body within marriage. I know I wouldn't. Not because I want to cheat, but because I would never hand that kind of power over.
Davey L Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Clearly it wouldn't stop people having affairs - people still do even where the legal penalty is death by stoning. Betrayal can be more painful than many other things that ARE a crime. It's one of the worst things you can do to someone else. And yet it remains legal in the western world. There was a time it felt to me as though it would have been better to have been murdered by my wife than betrayed by her; although murder carries major legal penalties adultery does not. I still do not think adultery should be an offence. But then I am generally opposed to the current tide of legislation telling us how to live our lives anyway. I also think that if it were to be taken into account in "fault" divorces then there's a lot of other stuff that should also be taken into account, much of it unverifiable one way or another - who knows what goes on inside a marriage? So there is a practical objection here. And to come back to the example of murder - actually I do not think I would want my wife to spend 20 years in prison if he were to poison my dinner - she probably did it because I deserved it!
topaMAXX Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 I don't think it would have factored in for my because I was so self-centered, resentful, and "desperate," the last thing on my mind when I made the awful choice to cheat was "Is this legal?" Regarding the whole Muslim thing, I would be interested to know how many people on LS think an adulterous woman (Because the men seem to be irrelevant) should be stoned? It would be interesting and probably not surprising to take THAT poll. If society shunned cheaters (as opposed to encouraged them, which is what it does), it would have been ingrained in you not to cheat. Wouldn't even have been a thought in your mind. No-fault divorce destroyed relationships and morality in the west, unfortunately.
fellini Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) If society shunned cheaters (as opposed to encouraged them, which is what it does), it would have been ingrained in you not to cheat. Wouldn't even have been a thought in your mind. No-fault divorce destroyed relationships and morality in the west, unfortunately. Too simplistic. Society both shuns and encourages cheating. When we ask the state to be responsible for making us do things we don't want to learn for ourselves, then we are asking the state to bind us in a Pastor/Flock relationship. Some of us are athiests and/or do not think we need Big brother to keep us in line. You ask the state to do this, you can expect more, and worse impediments on your freedoms as each and every person with a grudge or pet peeve asks the state to legislate it and make it public impunity. I do not want to live in that world. While popular culture surely has something to say about encouraging affairs (very little IMHO) the vast majority are against it. I consider movies to be an interesting source for this because movies DEVELOP an argument, they put everything into a context, and they develop that. So I you look at movies in which Infidelity is a major "theme" if not the only theme, I fail to see how one can walk away with your attitude that it's all about not shunning cheaters... Fatal Attraction. The Other Man (One of the very best and probably ONLY film to convincingly portray the concept of triggers and intrusions on a BS) Little Children (Kate Winslet - One of the very best to show how "good" people slip into affairs and how they do so when they are in good marriages) The Descendents (George Cluney - awesome film about the impact of infidelity on an unsuspecting husband and kids) Incomplete Perfect Man Deceptions of Love An Immoral Incident The Graduate Hanna and her Sisters Manhattan Crimes and Misdemeanors The End of the Affair Notes of a Scandal Take this Waltz Monster Young Adult Blind Husbands Grand Canyon The Painted Veil Unfaithful Henry and June Married Life Jungle Fever Choose Me Mystic Pizza Hollywoodland Three Sisters Nights in Rodanthe And there are dozens more, each and every one of these films with a major hollywood star(s) and each one with a clear message that infidelity is painful to someone/everyone I'd love to see the list of watched movies where the message of the film is that infidelity is A-OK. PS. I have seen each and everyone of those films, prior to DDAY. Now as they are being televised and I am post DDAY, wow, they have a whole new meaning. So I think it's possible that most of us are being bombared with anti-infidelity messages, but since they are "not relevant" to our situation, they tend to go largely unnoticed. We experience what happens to "them", not that it might have anything to do with "us". Kind of like, other peoples wives cheat, not mine... oh look, Diane Lane is really hot in this pic! Edited May 2, 2014 by fellini
Betterthanthis13 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 I don't think it would work. I think instituting stricter laws and punishments for people who cheat would give you a situation similar to what prohibition did for alcohol. I also don't think the media generally "glamorizes" infidelity. There are plenty of media messages that discourage cheating, far more than glamorize it. Of course there is also content that does glamorize and promote cheating, like the Ashley Madison website, but most mainstream media depicts cheating as wrong, with undesirable consequences. What I do see is media saturation of content that features infidelity that is vastly disproportionate to any media content that shows any form of non-monogamy that does not include lying, deceit, and betrayal. The media overall seems to portray monogamy as the only viable relationship structure. It seems like people in general are more accepting of infidelity than they are of the idea of open relationships, which I find puzzling but very interesting.
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