Why wayward spouses/partners risk everything

[fellini]

I'm rereading Esther Perel, and came across this quote:

 

And what I am going to really investigate in depth is why people are sometimes willing to lose everything, for a glimmer of what?

 

Slate: And what’s your best guess from your research

so

far?

 

Perel: I can tell you right away the most important sentence in the book, because I’ve lectured all over the world and this is the thing I say that turns heads most often:

Very often we don’t go elsewhere because we are looking for another person. We go elsewhere because we are looking for another self. It isn’t

so

much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

 

How accurate do you think this statement is?

[J2911]

Wow, very interesting .

I'm not sure as to say statistically how accurate that is, however , it's very interesting thought to ponder and I wouldn't be shocked to know that many a thousand would agree with that .

Thank you for sharing this.

[purplesorrow]

I'm rereading Esther Perel, and came across this quote:

 

And what I am going to really investigate in depth is why people are sometimes willing to lose everything, for a glimmer of what?

 

Slate: And what’s your best guess from your research

so

far?

 

Perel: I can tell you right away the most important sentence in the book, because I’ve lectured all over the world and this is the thing I say that turns heads most often:

Very often we don’t go elsewhere because we are looking for another person. We go elsewhere because we are looking for another self. It isn’t

so

much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

 

How accurate do you think this statement is?

 

I think it is very accurate for some. My WH said from day one it had nothing to do with me. As a bs, that was hard to believe. But then I saw an email conversation between he and the other woman. She asked why I was making him cheat. He replied, "she's not, she's always been great, it's me". He started IC the day after discovery and has gone once or twice weèkly. He has learned a lot about himself and has really changed and grown greatly.

I think more WS would leave if it were about the other person. They were selfish enough to have an affair. I don't think they would be selfless enough to stay if they didn't really want to.

[Speakingofwhich]

They were selfish enough to have an affair. I don't think they would be selfless enough to stay if they didn't really want to.

 

Well said...

[DKT3]

I think it is very accurate for some. My WH said from day one it had nothing to do with me. As a bs, that was hard to believe. But then I saw an email conversation between he and the other woman. She asked why I was making him cheat. He replied, "she's not, she's always been great, it's me". He started IC the day after discovery and has gone once or twice weèkly. He has learned a lot about himself and has really changed and grown greatly.

I think more WS would leave if it were about the other person. They were selfish enough to have an affair. I don't think they would be selfless enough to stay if they didn't really want to.

 

Very true. Although, many waywards do stay for selfish reasons ie cushy home, well paid spouse, social status, lack of social stagma, dissapproving family and friends, not wanting to pay alimony or child support.

[BHsigh]

I'm rereading Esther Perel, and came across this quote:

 

And what I am going to really investigate in depth is why people are sometimes willing to lose everything, for a glimmer of what?

 

Slate: And what’s your best guess from your research

so

far?

 

Perel: I can tell you right away the most important sentence in the book, because I’ve lectured all over the world and this is the thing I say that turns heads most often:

Very often we don’t go elsewhere because we are looking for another person. We go elsewhere because we are looking for another self. It isn’t

so

much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

 

How accurate do you think this statement is?

 

I think that this either hits the mark or at least gets close for a lot of cases.

[gettingstronger]

It isn’t so much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

 

 

Agree- my husbands affair was all about ego- about being someone he was not-having someone constantly tell him how wonderful he is-about not having to share the spotlight with me or the kids- sadly, the person he became haunts him and he would give anything to have not become such an ego freak that was able to lie to so easily-

[purplesorrow]

Very true. Although, many waywards do stay for selfish reasons ie cushy home, well paid spouse, social status, lack of social stagma, dissapproving family and friends, not wanting to pay alimony or child support.

 

I agree. I guess it was easy to decipher in my situation. On dday I offered 50/50 custody, no child support, no alimony and I wouldn't tell anyone. We didn't have any real estate. He really wants to stay. He told everyone in his life! He said he wanted to be accountable and wanted me to be supported.

[notserene]

It isn’t so much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

 

 

Agree- my husbands affair was all abou ego- about being someone he was not-having someone constantly tell him how wonderful he is-about not having to share the spotlight with me or the kids- sadly, the person he became haunts him and he would give anything to not become such an ego freak that was able to lie to so easily-

 

I mentioned before that my H said he felt like a fake person with OW.

 

It wasn't about her - it was about the way she made him feel. she was an escape from life's problems. I don't think he thought at all about what he was risking until she started getting emotionally involved and he realized what a colossal mistake he was making.

[fellini]

Agree- my husbands affair was all about ego- about being someone he was not-having someone constantly tell him how wonderful he is-about not having to share the spotlight with me or the kids- sadly, the person he became haunts him and he would give anything to have not become such an ego freak that was able to lie to so easily-

 

What this explains in my case too, in terms of the selfishness in not leaving, is that my WS had an affair to do something for her, with a co-worker, but she did not want ANYONE at her work to find out about it - in a sense, because it would ruin the person she liked thinking others thought she was. She only wanted to rid herself of the marriage identity, not the successful, attractive, intelligent university professor who doesn't cheat on her family!

 

It's an impossible problem: I want to be like my co-worker, but I don't want the other co-workers to know!

 

Early after DDay I got the feeling she was more concerned about her colleagues finding out, than about me!

[gettingstronger]

Its all so crazy- who they think they are during the affair- it makes me sick to my stomach when he says he felt powerful-makes him sick too to know he found value in being such a terrible person-

 

I have said this before, but she told me he was so proud to have her on his arm because she was so hot-yet, a co worker that caught them out thought she was a hooker- I think she thought she was Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman or something-who knows- egos cause lots of issues-

[BHsigh]

What this explains in my case too, in terms of the selfishness in not leaving, is that my WS had an affair to do something for her, with a co-worker, but she did not want ANYONE at her work to find out about it - in a sense, because it would ruin the person she liked thinking others thought she was. She only wanted to rid herself of the marriage identity, not the successful, attractive, intelligent university professor who doesn't cheat on her family!

 

It's an impossible problem: I want to be like my co-worker, but I don't want the other co-workers to know!

 

Early after DDay I got the feeling she was more concerned about her colleagues finding out, than about me!

 

I understand this, my wife admitted that she chose to have an affair and sought out someone that she could "bully" into giving her the attention that she craved, she intentionally affaired down, she felt that she was much too good for OM, which is why she picked him.

 

She was the opposite of your wife's situation though, in that she didn't care that other people knew, but bent over backwards to hide it from me. So many other people knew that it wasn't funny, she tried to tell me that she didn't try to hide it from me, but she didn't have an answer when I asked why she didn't confess when I confronted her the first two times.

[fellini]

I mentioned before that my H said he felt like a fake person with OW.

 

It wasn't about her - it was about the way she made him feel. she was an escape from life's problems. I don't think he thought at all about what he was risking until she started getting emotionally involved and he realized what a colossal mistake he was making.

 

Yes. My WS finally told me about her A exactly 2 hours after the AP told her for the first time "I love you".

 

However, did she tell me because she now had an exit? or did she tell me because she needed me to end it for her. Or both? She really is bad a making decisions - good or bad.

[gettingstronger]

Our OW was similar in that she did not hide her affair from her inner circle-why her inner circle would keep her secret and also aid her in this is beyond me-I suppose we are the company we keep- her own Mother supported her all while playing nice with her husband-UGH!

[Owl]

I don't think that the vast majority of WS's give any real thought to what they're risking.

 

On the contrary, they work very hard to minimize what they risk, and to avoid even considering that risk while they're engaged in the affair.

 

They convince themselves that they'll never be caught.

[notserene]

Its all so crazy- who they think they are during the affair- it makes me sick to my stomach when he says he felt powerful-makes him sick too to know he found value in being such a terrible person-

 

I have said this before, but she told me he was so proud to have her on his arm because she was so hot-yet, a co worker that caught them out thought she was a hooker- I think she thought she was Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman or something-who knows- egos cause lots of issues-

 

I don't think the WS has any concept of how they look to other people. they are out of touch with reality!

[nightmare01]

My WW said she had her LTA because she felt she deserved some happiness.

 

Im not really sure what to make of that other than to say her entitlement allowed her to hurt others.

[fellini]

I don't think that the vast majority of WS's give any real thought to what they're risking.

 

On the contrary, they work very hard to minimize what they risk, and to avoid even considering that risk while they're engaged in the affair.

 

They convince themselves that they'll never be caught.

 

I think you're right, perhaps more succinctly, they do NOT ALLOW THEMSELVES to give any real thought, otherwise it would crash up against everything they know to be wrong.

 

However, my WS did tell me something that struck me as strange, that she said several times to the AP "This is going to end badly". Now I cannot for the life of me get from her if she meant:

 

"This is going to end badly for us" (because I am not going to leave my H)

or

"This is going to end badly for us WHEN my H finds out and puts an end to it."

 

She says the the second - which suggests that getting caught was for them inevitable, and they were going to keep going until that day hit them.

[dichotomy]

Because AP fulfilled a need, a hole inside her (her dead father - daddy issues). Because he was very opposite of me and she wanted both types of men. Because they had a long history and she could not break the glue....Because he was good at manipulating women into having sex with him...because she felt it was ok to love multiple people at the same time - in different ways - how can love be bad, I can do these things and I am still loving to all. I can lead different lives at once - whats the risk, I am a good person and so is OM.

 

Messed up stuff.

[WasOtherWoman]

I think, in a lot of cases, that the WS does not feel like they are actually risking anything, for a variety of reasons:

 

 

• Some may feel they will never get caught
  
• Some may feel that, if they DID get caught, they would be able to "manage" the situation
  
• Some may feel that the marriage is over anyhow so what is the difference if they get caught
  
• Some may feel that the marriage is currently so bad that it could only get better if they got caught
  

Just some random thoughts......

[Quiet Storm]

I think there is a lot of truth in that statement.

 

For some WS, an affair is not the first sign that they have issues. It's common for WS to have other issues, such as being irresponsible about money, alcohol or addiction issues, not helping with kids or household and lying or hiding things not related to infidelity. This often causes BS to be the "responsible one", which can be exhausting after awhile.

 

When you are in a marriage like this, the "responsible" spouse will often grow resentful. They stop complimenting the WS, and really don't admire them anymore., which is understandable. It's hard to give validation & attention to someone that doesn't deserve it.

 

If WS is the type that craves validation and attention, instead of thinking "What can I do better, what can I improve?", they seek that attention, validation, admiration from other people.

 

A new person doesn't know WS flaws. They don't know they are irresponsible. They don't know they avoid conflict, have unhealthy needs for validation, are inconsiderate & selfish. They see what WS portrays- a nice family man, neglected at home by a wife who doesn't realize what a great catch he is. They admire him, and sympathize with him, giving him lots of undivided attention. He's just a great guy in a tough situation!

 

An AP judges WS by how they are "with them". They take what he says at face value, completely ignoring how cheating itself is a reflection of WS character or personal issues. Most see his actions as circumstantial, blaming red flags like conflict avoidance, lying, breaking promises, on his "situation". In a non affair relationship, these same OW would likely take note of this mans flaws & reconsider, but in an affair... it's all overlooked and blamed on the marriage.

 

I think most WS don't feel like they are risking "everything", because they think they won't get caught, or that they will be able to work it out if they do get caught. Or else they don't consider it at all, and just live in the moment. I definitely think they do not realize the impact it will have on their spouse & children.

[cocorico]

I'm rereading Esther Perel, and came across this quote:

 

And what I am going to really investigate in depth is why people are sometimes willing to lose everything, for a glimmer of what?

 

Slate: And what’s your best guess from your research

so

far?

 

Perel: I can tell you right away the most important sentence in the book, because I’ve lectured all over the world and this is the thing I say that turns heads most often:

Very often we don’t go elsewhere because we are looking for another person. We go elsewhere because we are looking for another self. It isn’t

so

much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

 

How accurate do you think this statement is?

 

I think in my H's case, it is very apposite!

 

He had gotten involved as a kid with an older, very broken MW to try to "fix" her. When her BH dumped her, he allowed her to move in with him, and years later they M when the tax laws changed. Photos from those years tell a very clear story of a young kid suddenly dressing and looking like a much older man - like he went from teenage hippy to middle-aged geezer overnight, with no period of youth in between.

 

She didn't like modern music, so he was not allowed to play his tapes / records / CDs at home when she was there - she insisted on classical music only, and his interests were derided and discouraged, his friends alienated and he was isolated from his family because she had FOO issues and no friends of her own, and distrusted other people. He is naturally very social but had to be seen to be "on her side" because she was convinced that if he developed any kind of connection or loyalty to anyone else then he was her enemy. And so, of course, he slipped into clinical depression.

 

The one area of his life that allowed him some autonomy was his professional life, and so he threw himself into that, progressing rapidly while she plateaued in an unchallenging role. They developed completely divergent lives, sharing an address and later kids (that they had both agreed they did not ever want, but she changed her mind without telling him and tricked him into) but nothing else.

 

When we got together, he rediscovered hidden and buried parts of himself, and he slowly grew back into himself, renewing all the parts that had withered away with decades of neglect or vicious pruning. One of the first things his sister said to me was "thank you for giving us our brother back". They said it felt like he had been abducted by aliens during his M to the xBW and a hologram left in his place. He is a very different person now, happy, creative, engaged, unlike the depressed, hollow figure in those old photographs. He is much more his authentic self again, enjoying his second chance at life.

[cocorico]

I'm rereading Esther Perel, and came across this quote:

 

And what I am going to really investigate in depth is why people are sometimes

willing to lose everything

, for a glimmer of what?

 

 

I also think, in my

H

's case, that he was "willing to lose everything" because he really had nothing to lose. He had already lost everything that mattered because of his

M

- his family, his friends, his youth, his interests, his confidence, his sense of purpose and meaning, his enjoyment of life, his soul.

 

There was nowhere to go, but up.

[BHsigh]

I think in my H's case, it is very apposite!

 

He had gotten involved as a kid with an older, very broken MW to try to "fix" her. When her BH dumped her, he allowed her to move in with him, and years later they M when the tax laws changed. Photos from those years tell a very clear story of a young kid suddenly dressing and looking like a much older man - like he went from teenage hippy to middle-aged geezer overnight, with no period of youth in between.

 

She didn't like modern music, so he was not allowed to play his tapes / records / CDs at home when she was there - she insisted on classical music only, and his interests were derided and discouraged, his friends alienated and he was isolated from his family because she had FOO issues and no friends of her own, and distrusted other people. He is naturally very social but had to be seen to be "on her side" because she was convinced that if he developed any kind of connection or loyalty to anyone else then he was her enemy. And so, of course, he slipped into clinical depression.

 

The one area of his life that allowed him some autonomy was his professional life, and so he threw himself into that, progressing rapidly while she plateaued in an unchallenging role. They developed completely divergent lives, sharing an address and later kids (that they had both agreed they did not ever want, but she changed her mind without telling him and tricked him into) but nothing else.

 

When we got together, he rediscovered hidden and buried parts of himself, and he slowly grew back into himself, renewing all the parts that had withered away with decades of neglect or vicious pruning. One of the first things his sister said to me was "thank you for giving us our brother back". They said it felt like he had been abducted by aliens during his M to the xBW and a hologram left in his place. He is a very different person now, happy, creative, engaged, unlike the depressed, hollow figure in those old photographs. He is much more his authentic self again, enjoying his second chance at life.

 

There is always room for the outlier in any attempted description of any situation. I do understand the some people have true exit affairs, because for any number of reasons they are unable to get themselves out of their situation, and your husband sounds like a good example of this.

 

As much as I hate affairs in general, I am glad that your husband was able to get away from that situation and find happiness.

[JourneyLady]

I'm rereading Esther Perel, and came across this quote:

 

And what I am going to really investigate in depth is why people are sometimes willing to lose everything, for a glimmer of what?

 

Slate: And what’s your best guess from your research

so

far?

 

Perel: I can tell you right away the most important sentence in the book, because I’ve lectured all over the world and this is the thing I say that turns heads most often:

Very often we don’t go elsewhere because we are looking for another person. We go elsewhere because we are looking for another self. It isn’t

so

much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

 

How accurate do you think this statement is?

 

I think it's very accurate. The Other treats you differently, pays you attention, (compliments you very skillfully in some cases) and generally builds you up in a way that your BS doesn't. They assist in liking yourself again, which may be missing at home. I'd say this was true of both my ex-hubs affair and my own online fling. In addition my ex-AP opened my eyes to how selfish I was sometimes and I started to change that (not soon enough to save the marriage however).

 

I was able to be playful, childlike, fun-loving and productive in a way that I could not have been with ex-hubs. He wasn't able to "let loose" any more and was always serious and controlled and calm. Who he was seemed to make me feel worse about myself, and ... looking back, that is why I was angry much of the time. I didn't know what to do with the anger. ex-AP served to dissipate the anger and return to my core joyful self. At least until I realized what I'd done...

Edited April 30, 2014 by JourneyLady