Question for the BSs in R

[fellini]

i've stopped making references to throwing in the towel, because during the one year of R a specific pattern always displayed itself: she would bend over backwards to fix anything if she saw I was quitting.

 

If I told her, Im vacationing with our daughter, you are staying here and working on yourself, she would explode into a bundle of cooperation.

 

If I asked her about the AP and then said, "well, if that is how you think, why are we in this marriage...." she would want to back track.

 

When I asked for a "structured separation", she went into deep personal introspection.

 

So I have decided that I cannot be her therapist, and my telling her it's time to throw in the towel will only result in yet another phase of hyper-reconcilliation and massive attempts to put things right.

 

I want to see her figure out for herself what she has to do, when she has to do it, to ask me the questions, to offer me the information without my having to ask for it, etc.

 

Talking about ending it (even felt that again last night in the middle of the night) only forces unnatural and false reactions, because panic is the first emotion that emerges, and I want to live outside of panic and fear. So I've stopped.

 

Like some others, when I want to leave, I will say so, and I will follow that up by leaving. It is not going to be used as a bargaining chip to force some kind of behaviour out of her. This would be cruel and unfair treatment of another human being, and I would love her less if she went for it.

[seren]

What made me look ahead instead of back was listening to a double amputee veteran, he said he stopped wishing for what was, refused to accept that life couldn't be beautiful with what was and that with love and perseverance, anything was possible it gave me the motivation to look ahead and that's what I find works for me, that and H doing what was needed. I am sometimes surprised that I once had a BS label, even more so that I am still here. We talk when we need to, cry sometimes, but when you get through a day without feeling angry or sad is when it is beginning to work.

[whatatangledweb]

How does/did he respond?

 

I don't say it any more. Back then he would apologize and ask me to please give him another chance. That he loved me,etc. He wasn't upset with me for telling him. He was upset that he caused me to feel that way. As I healed I said it less and less until I said it no more.

[dichotomy]

Are we just kidding ourselves? All it come down to in the end is that the pluses of staying together are greater than the minuses.

 

 

Many times in the past when facing a life issue or fork in the road, this had been on my mind.

[underwater2010]

I agree. I have read some that I feel bad for too. Some of the MM they were involved with were losers and they were mislead by them.

 

The only time I feel sorry for the OW is when she is absolutely lied to about the MM actually being married. But that sympathy ends when the truth is discovered and they continue with the relationship. I know that may be cruel, but I don't think there is anything that excuses someone engaging in any type of relationship knowing that someone is married.

 

Ours however was not married woman knew the situation and no promises were made. She just won't disappear. Well maybe she will now after my H threatened to tell her H. Only time will tell. As for yours threatening the cubs. She's lucky you are a compassionate woman!

 

In our case contact had ended almost a year before I found out...yet they were still friends on facebook. If you truly want her to disappear for good, then tell her husband. Not only do he deserve to know....but it will keep her busy dealing with the fallout. I suggest you inform him first, but your husband needs to step up and apologize to her husband also.

 

I gave her 1 month to come clean and then I contacted her husband to make sure. I also sent him all the emails, texts etc. My husband also took a phone call from him and apologized. I think that was when it hit home to my husband the damage he had done.

[Red123]

I bet it hit home for him. Two families broken by the betrayal is a large pill to swallow. Once the initial conversations were over did they still try to contact you or you H. That is my biggest concern that if I open this up then I will be obligated if her H wants more info. I really just want her gone for good. She already occupies to much head space of mine.

[underwater2010]

I bet it hit home for him. Two families broken by the betrayal is a large pill to swallow. Once the initial conversations were over did they still try to contact you or you H. That is my biggest concern that if I open this up then I will be obligated if her H wants more info. I really just want her gone for good. She already occupies to much head space of mine.

 

I spoke with MOW about three times....the last time she wanted sympathy for the free pass she gave him. Stating that it was the same as what she did and she knew how I felt. LOL.

 

I spoke with her BH husband about 5 times. My FWH only spoke with her BH once. The worst was when he found out she cheated with her boss too and showed up at my work. That one kinda freaked me out, although I understood how upset he was. He even propositioned me about getting back at both of them....wasn't going to happen. Although I did tell him to say "Hi" for me. The problem for him was that she is a serial cheater. But he loves his kids to much to break up the home.

[Red123]

Wow. How did you finally stop the H from contacting you?

[cocahouts]

I am 7 months from D-Day and I still think about it though out the day. Some days are really bad then some days I don't even think about it. I get a glimmer of that woman I married every so often and it gives me some hope but then something will trigger me and it all falls apart.

 

It has been getting better and my WW has been doing her best but sometimes I wish she would understand a little better.

 

Some days I take the hurt and it brushes right off, but then some days like this morning I couldn't get it out of my head and felt like throwing up.

 

I'm giving it a year or two, hell I've been with her for about 20 years so the 10% mark doesn't seem that bad. I know she's tying

[Spark1111]

When you feel this way do you ever tell him the pain is so bad you think of quitting?

 

Of course. I said what I felt many, many, times during R.

 

I thought avoiding our feelings, avoiding conflict, being too nice and not honest enough was part and parcel to blame for the mess we found ourselves in after DDay, and like the RAVEN, I vowed NEVERMORE.

 

I was kind, but brutally honest, as in I love you, I hope counseling is enough, but I remain unsure if I can trust you again, and most importantly for me; Can I ever respect you again?

 

I told him I could not be with a man I did not respect. I was trying very hard (and so was he) but I needed the truth of his feelings, his lies and his actions....and he needed it all to go away...quickly.

 

he wanted to be evaluated on his actions from this day forward but I could not move forward until he and we examined our past.

 

and that included the affair.

 

yes. I had a bag packed and a divorce attorney on speed dial. My hardest moments were not about the affair or the AP....it was when he grew defensive, angry, and oh so wanted to avoid talking or introspecting about any of it to or with me.

 

That'a when I would lose respect that he lacked the courage to put us back together; that his shame would take precedence over my pain and healing; that he would not be a strong enough man for me.

 

And it is completely normal to feel this way, IMO.

[Red123]

I am 7 months from D-Day and I still think about it though out the day. Some days are really bad then some days I don't even think about it. I get a glimmer of that woman I married every so often and it gives me some hope but then something will trigger me and it all falls apart.

 

It has been getting better and my WW has been doing her best but sometimes I wish she would understand a little better.

 

Some days I take the hurt and it brushes right off, but then some days like this morning I couldn't get it out of my head and felt like throwing up.

 

I'm giving it a year or two, hell I've been with her for about 20 years so the 10% mark doesn't seem that bad. I know she's tying

 

You know that doesn't sound like a bad idea 10 percent is fair. I hope your R works for you and that your good days out number your bad. Some days though its so hard to see. I'm with ya.

[Furious]

For the BSs who have chosen to R with your WS how many times during the R process have you said you give up or wanted to? For those who have did you express that to your WS?

 

Before even considering reconciliation you must first reconcile with yourself.

 

1. Being cheated on does not define you. Cheaters cheat because they can and want to cheat. It's a choice they've made. Usually, a choice they justify. Of course that justification is conducted in secrecy. A secret justification without transparency is like playing poker with a stacked hand. If the justification to cheat were as equal to getting a divorce than why cheat?

 

2. Kick some ass. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and honor yourself. Cheaters have made you the villain in their justification. If you beg or plead or invite blame into why your spouse cheated it's music to their ears. Cheaters will never respect a spouse who eats the **** sandwich.

 

3. Cheaters, who never really intended to divorce, but have a sweet tooth for cake, are are infamous rug sweepers. Don't rug sweep, take that rug outside and give it a good smacking, shake off that dirt and dust and do not let it enter your home unless it's been put through a thorough washing.

 

4. Self esteem comes within. Celebrate yourself. In no way does a cheater define you. If you don't embrace yourself, if your identity is about how you're treated as opposed to how you demand to be treated you will NOT get the respect you deserve.

 

5. Let them go.....it freaks them out..letting go and wishing them well speaks volumes. Letting go of a cheater translates to reclaiming yourself.

 

 

Set the standard in which you will either move on or the standard in which reconciliation may be considered.

[Red123]

Well said! Thanks:)

[underwater2010]

Wow. How did you finally stop the H from contacting you?

 

I sent him a final email stating that it wasn't healthy for either of us. Recovery would be hampered by continued contact.

[ClemsonTigers]

I agree with Underwater….telling the MOW's husband the truth about his life is the right thing to do and essential to your long term recovery.

 

I don't agree with giving the MOW a chance to come clean first. Exposure should be done without forewarning. Otherwise you're just giving her a chance to come up with a story (LIE) about the situation such as telling her betrayed husband that some guy was hitting on her and that guys crazy wife is accusing them of having an affair and if she calls you just humor the woman and ignore it. Forewarned is forearmed. Besides, she didn't warn you before having an affair with your husband, did she? She's not entitled to any courtesy's.

 

I also don't suggest talking to your husband about it. This secret is your secret too (since it involves your life) and the moral decision to share this secret or not with the other betrayed spouse is yours alone. I submit it's the correct moral decision to tell just as it would be the correct moral decision to tell your neighbor that you saw his housekeeper stealing things from his home. In a way, I tend to feel that by keeping this secret your husband has made you an accessory to his crime. An accomplice to the destruction of their marriage which can only be restored upon a foundation of honesty (in other words…the affair has already laid the seed of destruction and exposing can actually help save the marriage versus the notion that the exposure is what would destroy the marriage). MOW's husband deserves the truth about his life just as much as you do and what right do you have to hide such information from him????? These are deeply personal moral struggles and I pray you dig deep and find YOUR answers. I'll say that most everyone I've heard that did follow through and disclose the affair were glad they did thereafter. Seems no one ever regrets doing the right thing despite the potential consequences.

[Red123]

I agree with Underwater….telling the MOW's husband the truth about his life is the right thing to do and essential to your long term recovery.

 

I don't agree with giving the MOW a chance to come clean first. Exposure should be done without forewarning. Otherwise you're just giving her a chance to come up with a story (LIE) about the situation such as telling her betrayed husband that some guy was hitting on her and that guys crazy wife is accusing them of having an affair and if she calls you just humor the woman and ignore it. Forewarned is forearmed. Besides, she didn't warn you before having an affair with your husband, did she? She's not entitled to any courtesy's.

 

I also don't suggest talking to your husband about it. This secret is your secret too (since it involves your life) and the moral decision to share this secret or not with the other betrayed spouse is yours alone. I submit it's the correct moral decision to tell just as it would be the correct moral decision to tell your neighbor that you saw his housekeeper stealing things from his home. In a way, I tend to feel that by keeping this secret your husband has made you an accessory to his crime. An accomplice to the destruction of their marriage which can only be restored upon a foundation of honesty (in other words…the affair has already laid the seed of destruction and exposing can actually help save the marriage versus the notion that the exposure is what would destroy the marriage). MOW's husband deserves the truth about his life just as much as you do and what right do you have to hide such information from him????? These are deeply personal moral struggles and I pray you dig deep and find YOUR answers. I'll say that most everyone I've heard that did follow through and disclose the affair were glad they did thereafter. Seems no one ever regrets doing the right thing despite the potential consequences.

 

I definetly don't dispute that this is the right thing to do. But is it my right thing or his wife's? I am fully torn because I have known since September and haven't contacted him(I don't have his info but I'm sure I can find it). If I did it now it almost feels like an unprovoked strike at them. That's probably not true but that's what my gut is saying. I am not wanting to involve myself with them and I want to move on. This is the same reason I never confronted her about the A. I don't want the drama going forward. My H screwed me over technically the MOW did not as she doesn't know me at all. Her H should know from her. On the other hand I do want to tell him as I know how hard this is. I waited too long to do it. Now I feel like I can't. For all the reasons I listed.

[Snowflower]

Before even considering reconciliation you must first reconcile with yourself.

 

1. Being cheated on does not define you. Cheaters cheat because they can and want to cheat. It's a choice they've made. Usually, a choice they justify. Of course that justification is conducted in secrecy. A secret justification without transparency is like playing poker with a stacked hand. If the justification to cheat were as equal to getting a divorce than why cheat?

 

2. Kick some ass. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and honor yourself. Cheaters have made you the villain in their justification. If you beg or plead or invite blame into why your spouse cheated it's music to their ears. Cheaters will never respect a spouse who eats the **** sandwich.

 

3. Cheaters, who never really intended to divorce, but have a sweet tooth for cake, are are infamous rug sweepers. Don't rug sweep, take that rug outside and give it a good smacking, shake off that dirt and dust and do not let it enter your home unless it's been put through a thorough washing.

 

4. Self esteem comes within. Celebrate yourself. In no way does a cheater define you. If you don't embrace yourself, if your identity is about how you're treated as opposed to how you demand to be treated you will NOT get the respect you deserve.

 

5. Let them go.....it freaks them out..letting go and wishing them well speaks volumes. Letting go of a cheater translates to reclaiming yourself.

 

 

Set the standard in which you will either move on or the standard in which reconciliation may be considered.

 

One of the best posts I've read here in a long time. I wish I had done better with the points raised in this post, but yep, I finally got it and things improved.

 

I wish I could like this post 1000x.

[ClemsonTigers]

I definetly don't dispute that this is the right thing to do. But is it my right thing or his wife's? I am fully torn because I have known since September and haven't contacted him(I don't have his info but I'm sure I can find it). If I did it now it almost feels like an unprovoked strike at them. That's probably not true but that's what my gut is saying. I am not wanting to involve myself with them and I want to move on. This is the same reason I never confronted her about the A. I don't want the drama going forward. My H screwed me over technically the MOW did not as she doesn't know me at all. Her H should know from her. On the other hand I do want to tell him as I know how hard this is. I waited too long to do it. Now I feel like I can't. For all the reasons I listed.

 

Feelings lie. Don't wait any longer. It's not too late to do the right thing and tie up this loose end (that will continue to nag at your conscious).

 

The courage is in the doing.

 

Waiting, wishing or hoping she'll do it herself??? Forget about it. She'll just lie. The only way you'll know for sure her husband knows the truth is speaking to him yourself without forewarning her.

 

I know it's hard and I'd do it for you if I could (figuratively speaking).

 

I wish you well.

[Red123]

Feelings lie. Don't wait any longer. It's not too late to do the right thing and tie up this loose end (that will continue to nag at your conscious).

 

The courage is in the doing.

 

Waiting, wishing or hoping she'll do it herself??? Forget about it. She'll just lie. The only way you'll know for sure her husband knows the truth is speaking to him yourself without forewarning her.

 

I know it's hard and I'd do it for you if I could (figuratively speaking).

 

I wish you well.

 

I don't know your situation/story, did you do this in yours? If so what was the outcome?

[Spark1111]

I definetly don't dispute that this is the right thing to do. But is it my right thing or his wife's? I am fully torn because I have known since September and haven't contacted him(I don't have his info but I'm sure I can find it). If I did it now it almost feels like an unprovoked strike at them. That's probably not true but that's what my gut is saying. I am not wanting to involve myself with them and I want to move on. This is the same reason I never confronted her about the A. I don't want the drama going forward. My H screwed me over technically the MOW did not as she doesn't know me at all. Her H should know from her. On the other hand I do want to tell him as I know how hard this is. I waited too long to do it. Now I feel like I can't. For all the reasons I listed.

 

Oh, no one is coming clean darling....unless forced to.

 

Unless someone does, there is no guarantee NC will hold in the future.

 

IF there are no consequences, the lovers can reunite at any time.

 

Is this what you want?

 

I understand letting sleeping dogs lie....I really do.

 

But please understand, in my sitch...2.5 years went by....when she waltzed into his office and pushed every button he had to see if he wanted to reinitiate the affair.

 

Thank GOD he told me.

 

She REALLY believed he returned to the marriage for the kids, his legacy, but was secretly pining away for Her, his one true love.....she thought or was led to believe...

 

It wasn't until I forced her to talk with me did she realize their was a loving, devoted woman on the third side of the triangle.....and she freaked out....

 

She was a D mom.

 

Why did you not inform her H immediately after DDay?

 

Who were you protecting? And WHY?

[Red123]

Oh, no one is coming clean darling....unless forced to.

 

Unless someone does, there is no guarantee NC will hold in the future.

 

IF there are no consequences, the lovers can reunite at any time.

 

Is this what you want?

 

I understand letting sleeping dogs lie....I really do.

 

But please understand, in my sitch...2.5 years went by....when she waltzed into his office and pushed every button he had to see if he wanted to reinitiate the affair.

 

Thank GOD he told me.

 

She REALLY believed he returned to the marriage for the kids, his legacy, but was secretly pining away for Her, his one true love.....she thought or was led to believe...

 

It wasn't until I forced her to talk with me did she realize their was a loving, devoted woman on the third side of the triangle.....and she freaked out....

 

She was a D mom.

 

Why did you not inform her H immediately after DDay?

 

Who were you protecting? And WHY?

 

Wow. That feels a little harsh. I'm sorry for your situation and shocked that after all of that time she would do that. A little crazy IMO. Lets see I guess I'm protecting me. I have enough to deal with and during their A she claimed her H found out, conveniently around the time I did so maybe he knows and hasn't told me. These are adults I am not their mother and consequences for her is not my job. I am still on the fence because I am not sure if I want to open the door to see if he knows. I am only protecting me. This has torn me down from a fierce outspoken strong woman to an emotional mess that I am not used to. If my H wants to get back into the A he will but that will be the last if me and him. It doesn't matter what I do if that's his choice it will be. I don't believe it is but time will tell. Believe me he has been facing his consequences. She is not my problem.

[waterwoman]

Wow. That feels a little harsh. I'm sorry for your situation and shocked that after all of that time she would do that. A little crazy IMO. Lets see I guess I'm protecting me. I have enough to deal with and during their A she claimed her H found out, conveniently around the time I did so maybe he knows and hasn't told me. These are adults I am not their mother and consequences for her is not my job. I am still on the fence because I am not sure if I want to open the door to see if he knows. I am only protecting me. This has torn me down from a fierce outspoken strong woman to an emotional mess that I am not used to. If my H wants to get back into the A he will but that will be the last if me and him. It doesn't matter what I do if that's his choice it will be. I don't believe it is but time will tell. Believe me he has been facing his consequences. She is not my problem.

 

Hi red, that is what I thought too. Still do. More and more as time goes by. As my focus on her shifts completely. I went from being angry at her, to worrying about her, to feeling guilty (FFS!), to feeling compassion, to feeling nothing at all but a vague discomfort like the memory of a bad hangover. Thinking of her makes me think of that time in my life - and that time in my life was horrible. As you say 'she is not my problem'.

 

If all I heard about her H was true (and I have some evidence that it was) he is a violent and unpleasant man - if he had been told there would have been consequences for her (and maybe for her children only one of which was his) but more selfishly, for me and my family. Much as H might have deserved to have been 'dealt with' by OW's H I didn't want it to happen and more importantly I didn't want it to happen in front of my kids and I didn't want it to happen in or near my home. Selfish? Yes probably. But as you said about yourself, I was a mess and I could not have dealt with any more at the point. Life had shifted from being a safe place where my family went about their buiness amongst decent well-intentioned people, to a place where people lied and deceived and no-one could be trusted. I didn't want any contact with the OW or her H. Why would I want to get any closer to them than I had to?

 

I also agree that telling her H as a strategy for stopping the A reviving isn't relevant to me. If H wanted to restart it he would. If seeing what he had done to me didn't do the trick, nothing would, and if nothng would, I didn't want to be with him anymore. Simple as that.

 

Over the last 2 years I have not once had reason to mistrust H with regard to OW. In fact there are times recently when he has had to mention her and from the tone he uses to speak of her I would say the fairy dust has been well and truly filtered from the air.

[Red123]

Hi red, that is what I thought too. Still do. More and more as time goes by. As my focus on her shifts completely. I went from being angry at her, to worrying about her, to feeling guilty (FFS!), to feeling compassion, to feeling nothing at all but a vague discomfort like the memory of a bad hangover. Thinking of her makes me think of that time in my life - and that time in my life was horrible. As you say 'she is not my problem'.

 

If all I heard about her H was true (and I have some evidence that it was) he is a violent and unpleasant man - if he had been told there would have been consequences for her (and maybe for her children only one of which was his) but more selfishly, for me and my family. Much as H might have deserved to have been 'dealt with' by OW's H I didn't want it to happen and more importantly I didn't want it to happen in front of my kids and I didn't want it to happen in or near my home. Selfish? Yes probably. But as you said about yourself, I was a mess and I could not have dealt with any more at the point. Life had shifted from being a safe place where my family went about their buiness amongst decent well-intentioned people, to a place where people lied and deceived and no-one could be trusted. I didn't want any contact with the OW or her H. Why would I want to get any closer to them than I had to?

 

I also agree that telling her H as a strategy for stopping the A reviving isn't relevant to me. If H wanted to restart it he would. If seeing what he had done to me didn't do the trick, nothing would, and if nothng would, I didn't want to be with him anymore. Simple as that.

 

Over the last 2 years I have not once had reason to mistrust H with regard to OW. In fact there are times recently when he has had to mention her and from the tone he uses to speak of her I would say the fairy dust has been well and truly filtered from the air.

Thank you. I have been feeling very alone with this decision but I know its right for me right now. People feel very strongly about this topic, which is actually not what the thread was about but I don't feel responsible for the MOWs family just mine. I was happy when I got up this morning and saw your post, I felt like you understood my rationale. Thanks

[waterwoman]

Thank you. I have been feeling very alone with this decision but I know its right for me right now. People feel very strongly about this topic, which is actually not what the thread was about but I don't feel responsible for the MOWs family just mine. I was happy when I got up this morning and saw your post, I felt like you understood my rationale. Thanks

 

No problem x

 

I have argued this on here before. I can see that the reasons for exposing to the other BS are perfectly valid, but not, IMO, applicable in all circumstances.

[Snowflower]

Me either! And, I have caught some flack for this here.

 

I never told the OW's husband/the other BS in my situation. Honestly, in the immediate aftermath of d-day, the BH didn't even enter my mind, not really. I had no idea who he even was.

 

Several weeks/couple of months later, I did wonder about him. My H said that OW and her H were separated even before the A. It seems this is the truth because they did divorce about a year later.

 

But honestly, I didn't need anymore drama. I had no desire to talk to him. And I didn't feel it was his problem-whoever he was-to try to keep his wife away from my husband. It was my husband's responsibility to control himself-not that other BH.

 

So while I understand why some/many BS's seek out the other BS, it wasn't what I did and yes, I was watching out for myself. I know this isn't a popular viewpoint around here.

 

As for the hypothetical situation of the BH knowing about the A and not telling me? Well, again, I have no idea what he knew and when he found out. They were supposedly separated.

 

But if I had learned that the other BS knew before me and didn't try to tell me, I would have understood. I learned what your spouse's infidelity feels like and how it turns your world upside down. I would have not expected him to tell me nor would have been disappointed that he didn't. He and I never spoke.

 

Red, sorry for the threadjack from your original topic but I understood what you said when you didn't tell the wife. Good topic, anyway!

Edited May 7, 2014 by Snowflower