what's going on here?

[MissTrudy]

I met a guy on okc and so far we've gone out twice.

 

First date was fun but a bit awkward, we are both kind of shy. i actually didn't think he'd ask me out again but he did, the next day. Guess I wasn't as awkward as I thought I was, or he didn't mind hahahaha!

 

Anyway, we just had our second date and that was fun too, much less awkward but he still hasn't made a move on me (no hugs, kisses, etc). I have also been bad at breaking the touch barrier but I am trying to give him the green light...smiling, flirting, (awkwardly) pausing a little longer than normal before I say goodbye.

 

During the date he asked if I would be interested in going to a dinner party he wants to host. He paused and cleared his throat before asking so I could tell something was up, hahaha. I was really excited about it (and I mean genuinely excited) and said yes. He mentioned it again before we parted ways and the next day, before he sent out the invite to everyone, he asked me if the time he was planning to have it worked for me.

 

I like this guy, and I think he likes me too because he has been the one pursuing me, planning dates, and paying for dates. But at the same time he hasn't tried to kiss me yet and our third "date" (if you even want to call it a date) is a party where I'll be meeting his friends. This type of thing has never happened to me before...meeting friends so early and/or not having broken the touch barrier before date three. Does any of this sound like we're heading straight for the friend zone? It kind of feels like that is where we're headed.

 

Just to be clear, I don't mind taking things slow and it's actually kind of fun to anticipate what's going to happen next, but if I am doing something that is maybe keeping him at arm's length, or sending the wrong vibes, I want to know so that I can correct it.

 

Also, I am a little nervous about the party. I tend to be shy around people I don't know and everyone there will know each other with the exception of me. And I barely know him at this point too!! Gah!

 

The invite said it was okay to bring friends but I am guessing that it's best if I don't bring anyone and just show up by myself?

[TXGuy]

Just in case you have not figured it out by now, the only reason he is throwing this party is so he can invite you to it. He likes you a lot, but is very shy.

[writergal]

Oh, I'd bring a friend with you to the party. That way you'll have more fun and won't feel so awkward.

 

As someone who has a Masters in Over-Thinking, and a PhD in Looking Before Leaping (earned from the University of Neurosis), I would strongly advise you against having ANY expectations about how he'll treat you at his party.

 

First, he'll be busy hosting his part which means he'll likely hob nob with friends and those friends friends. If you bring a friend or two with you, the more the merrier. As Cyndi Lauper sang, "Girls Just Wanna Have Fuh-un." So go and have some fun.

 

It's a bonus if he tackles you for a make-out session in his spare bedroom aka coat room, towards the end of the night, but highly unlikely if he still hasn't kissed you yet. Maybe he's waiting for the opportune moment (the coat room) or maybe he only has the friend-vibe for you. You just met him and don't know what he thinks of you yet.

 

Take your time and have fun at the party and see what happens after that.

 

If there's one lesson I'm constantly repeating with men (b/c I am a terrible student), it's to sloooooow down and try not to control the outcome. Each and every time I rush at a guy like a line-backer with my expectations curled up underneath my arm like a football, I knock him down before he knows what hit him, and then it's over. *poof* There's no chance for the connection we had to turn into anything.

 

Don't be a line backer with expectations. You'll never score a touchdown (relationship) that way.

 

As the Beatles song goes, just "Let It Be."

 

And one more cliche, "good things comes to those who wait."

Edited April 29, 2014 by writergal

[MissTrudy]

Thank you both for the advice and affirmation!

 

Given the nature of the party and the # of people he invited I doubt that I'll get any one-on-one time with him, but it will be nice to see him in a relatively low pressure environment although it's more pressure for me! I just have to focus on having fun and not treat it like an interview (which is sort of how I approach a lot of social situations, maybe because most of the social events I go to these days are networking for my profession. ***LAME***).

 

I am going to see if I can bring one friend with me, and let him know that I'm coming with a friend.

 

I am proud of myself for letting him take the lead. I am an active participant but I am not the aggressor. I think he might need a little nudging but I still need to evaluate the situation. I'm like 99% sure we're not making out at this party, but I hope that it will loosen us both up... really hoping that it loosens me up...

[writergal]

No, no, no, on the nudging.

 

Men like to chase, not to be nudged/chased. Takes away the challenge for them to be chased. Trust me. I'm a reformed chaser. I have to attend Chasers Anonymous meetings every week and have the 20 year medal to prove it.

 

Chasing a man for attention never works in the woman's favor unless its to return the wallet he dropped as he passed by her on the street. The only thing you should chase is your dreams. (I'm really full of cliches. Sorry.)

 

Just go to the party with your friend and be yourself. Remember: no expectations. Those are the kiss of death where dating is concerned.

Edited April 29, 2014 by writergal

[Mrin]

How to break the physical barrier - ok here is how. At some point during the party you are going to be next to him either standing or sitting. Reach over and interlace your fingers and give his hand a squeeze. Don't have to leave it there for long. That should do the trick. He will be nibbling on your earlobe before the night is over.

[Survivor12]

I would advise against bringing a friend along if you are concerned about being friend-zoned. Going solo sends the message that you are there because of him, not the party. It also gives him more opportunity to spend time with you and to introduce you to his friends--and since he didnt specifically suggest that you bring someone, he's likely planning on you being his "date".

 

If, however, you get there and he isn't spending time with you, excuse yourself politely & leave. Thank him for inviting you and tell him that you will be looking forward to seeing him again soon. That will make it clear that you want to date him, not be just "one of the gang".

[acrosstheuniverse]

The kissing, I wouldn't worry about it not having happened yet. I often don't kiss guys until the second or third date, I think in this and my last relationship it was date four or something like that. I know it sounds crazy but I kinda like the build up and anticipation, the more I like someone the less I want to rush the physical affection. I rarely if ever kiss on a first date as for me, first dates are for figuring out if you like each other and second dates when you both know you're into each other enough for another date are where the physical affection can start happening.

 

As for the dinner party, I personally wouldn't have gone. I've had it before where guys I've been on a date or two with have invited me to hang with them and their friends before the relationship has been defined and it's just too messy for me. I imagine showing up, is he going to be able to give me the attention I need for us to keep getting to know one another or torn between me and his friends? What do his friends think is going on between us? Is he seeing me purely as a friend? It's just too messy and I'm not about to show up to him and his guy mates hanging out as though I'm just another friend. I prefer to keep it one on one until we've established what's going on between us and then meeting the friends can happily commence.

 

Plus when my current boyfriend asked me if I wanted to go to the pub with him and his friends it smacked a little of very low effort required (he goes there every week on that evening, I'd just have been tagging along) for the second or third date. So I made it clear that while I was busy, I did want him to see me again and he asked me out for dinner, another one to one date

[MissTrudy]

How to break the physical barrier - ok here is how. At some point during the party you are going to be next to him either standing or sitting. Reach over and interlace your fingers and give his hand a squeeze. Don't have to leave it there for long. That should do the trick. He will be nibbling on your earlobe before the night is over.

 

Mmm I like this idea! And the nibbling hahahahaha

 

I would advise against bringing a friend along if you are concerned about being friend-zoned. Going solo sends the message that you are there because of him, not the party. It also gives him more opportunity to spend time with you and to introduce you to his friends--and since he didnt specifically suggest that you bring someone, he's likely planning on you being his "date".

 

If, however, you get there and he isn't spending time with you, excuse yourself politely & leave. Thank him for inviting you and tell him that you will be looking forward to seeing him again soon. That will make it clear that you want to date him, not be just "one of the gang".

 

Very good points Survivor12, hadn't really thought about it that way. I think going there alone will make me a little vulnerable but show that I am willing to put myself out there, go with the flow, and not rely on my friend(s) as a crutch. It's a challenge for me (independent of whatever this whole event means, as I am not terribly social) so maybe I should just put myself out there to have fun with a bunch of new people (and him!) and see what happens

[MissTrudy]

As for the dinner party, I personally wouldn't have gone. I've had it before where guys I've been on a date or two with have invited me to hang with them and their friends before the relationship has been defined and it's just too messy for me. I imagine showing up, is he going to be able to give me the attention I need for us to keep getting to know one another or torn between me and his friends? What do his friends think is going on between us? Is he seeing me purely as a friend? It's just too messy and I'm not about to show up to him and his guy mates hanging out as though I'm just another friend. I prefer to keep it one on one until we've established what's going on between us and then meeting the friends can happily commence.

 

pretty much every question/concern you raise here is streaming through my mind, i'm trying not to make a big deal of it and just see what happens. i can't flake out even if i'm nervous as crap.

 

Also, not that it necessarily matters, but a lot of his friends are female. His company is predominately female. It doesn't bother me at all, it is actually kind of nice IMO.

Edited April 29, 2014 by MissTrudy

[MissTrudy]

Went to the party. still confused. here's why:

 

He went out of his way to pick me up and drop me off which was extremely nice of him (I don't have a car so I was going to take the train and walk from the station to his place, but he insisted that it wasn't an inconvenience for him to get me, even though he lives about 20 minutes away).

 

I broke the touch barrier before his friends arrived, by sitting as close to him as possible on the couch and leaning over as he showed me something, and I put my hand in between us on the couch, slightly brushing the side of his jeans. He didn't recoil but he kept the hand closest to me on his lap.

 

It got a bit awkward when his friends came. They were all nice and it was fun but I was kind of fending for myself in that he didn't introduce me to any of them and was kind of distant while they were there. I had to explain how we knew each other, which was a bit awkward. He didn't do a 180 or anything on me, he was pretty quiet with all of them too, and a few of the girls were joking that they always get one word answers from him at work and social events, so that was reassuring in a way. I did not to follow him around or go out of my way to be near him so maybe that was a mistake on my part?

 

After they left he took me home right away, didn't try to lay any moves on me at all. He put the leash on his dog, said he should take the dog out, and as we walked to the door asked if that was my purse on the chair (it wasn't clear if we were going for a walk or if he was taking me home, so I just assumed we were going on a walk, hehe). We get to my place and he gets out of the car (a first!!) with the dog, and starts walking me to my door. We get halfway there and he half-hugs me; I think he was trying to go for the full thing but his dog is literally pulling him away. He lets the dog pull him away as he says goodnight, and I walk the rest of the way to my door, alone.

 

So I don't know what to make of it. He goes out of his way to make sure that I can get to the party and back home easily and safely, during the party we don't talk that much and while he does stand near me sometimes, it was never in a way that one would think we were together. And he didn't introduce me or "show me off" to any of his friends, although I did get a chance to meet all of them. He finally initiated touch with me (the hug) but it was very quick and even after his adorable dog interrupted our hug (adorable little f*cker) I stood my ground thinking he'd re-enter the embrace, but he just broke it and took off.

 

Is this just extreme shyness? lack of interest? Is there anything I can do or say (or shouldn't do or say) to help the situation become less awkward?

[Poppygoodwill]

Okay, well you're not crazy, first off. He is sending you mixed signals. So take heart: your confusion is entirely reasonable.

 

I would say, however, based on experience, that even people who want to take it slow, *can't help themselves* from moving things along. This is what's wrong here. He might not be the type to try to get you into bed right away, but he would still want to touch you somehow, even gently, casually, to send the message that he thinks of you in a romantic way. A hand on your back, or casually take your hand to lead you through a room, etc. These are the little signs, easily sent and universally understood, that he's got a romantic interest, rather than simply a platonic one.

 

So I"m afraid my interpretation is going to continue the football metaphor that writergal started: you are in danger of being punted into the friendzone.

 

The best and least-crazy making way to discover if you are heading that way is to take the bull by the horns and make it clear as mud to him that you are romantically interested in him. Then step back and see how he reacts.

 

For example, if he goes in for a half hug that is quickly broken away, you pull him in tighter and don't let him go until you give him a kiss on teh cheek as well.

 

if you make your intentions clear, his will become clear too. If he says nothing, and does nothing, you can safely assume *that* is the message.

 

It's one of those tough lessons in life but people do what they want to do. If they're not doing something, it's because -for whatever reason - they don't want to do it.

 

Call him up. tell him you had a fun time at his party and you'd like to get a little one on one time with him. invite him out. see what happens.

[angel.eyes]

Either he's very inexperienced or he sees you as a friend. In a situation like this, I tend to step back and let the guy declare himself through his actions. That has worked really well for me. Everyone has a different dating style though, so you'll get a range of opinions.

 

FWIW, I won't do group things early on. (Only one guy has ever suggested this.) Early dating is about getting to know the other person, and as you discovered, that's difficult in a group setting. I decline and suggest we do something one-on-one instead.

[MissTrudy]

Either he's very inexperienced or he sees you as a friend. In a situation like this, I tend to step back and let the guy declare himself through his actions. That has worked really well for me. Everyone has a different dating style though, so you'll get a range of opinions.

 

FWIW, I won't do group things early on. (Only one guy has ever suggested this.) Early dating is about getting to know the other person, and as you discovered, that's difficult in a group setting. I decline and suggest we do something one-on-one instead.

 

Yup, for me last night was a learning experience; early group dates are not the way to go, hahaha (at least when it's not with my group of friends ).

 

I have a feeling that he isn't very experienced with girls; given his behavior and his career (computer scientist) I think I have enough evidence pointing to that. I do like him though and I can deal with awkwardness–but only up to a point!

 

I'm debating whether I should invite him over to my place for dinner or ask him to go somewhere with me, or if I should just see if he asks me out again. Thinking to let him initiate the next date because if he wants one, I know he'll do that (he's been very forward in asking me out, and last night was the first time we hugged so we are at least moving in a positive direction). I will work on sending him clear signals about how I feel about him and if the mood is right, attempt to initiate a kiss even if it's just on the cheek. He's like a foot taller than me though so that part might be kind of hard

[writergal]

Okay, well you're not crazy, first off. He is sending you mixed signals. So take heart: your confusion is entirely reasonable.

 

I would say, however, based on experience, that even people who want to take it slow, *can't help themselves* from moving things along. This is what's wrong here. He might not be the type to try to get you into bed right away, but he would still want to touch you somehow, even gently, casually, to send the message that he thinks of you in a romantic way. A hand on your back, or casually take your hand to lead you through a room, etc. These are the little signs, easily sent and universally understood, that he's got a romantic interest, rather than simply a platonic one.

 

So I"m afraid my interpretation is going to continue the football metaphor that writergal started: you are in danger of being punted into the friendzone.

 

The best and least-crazy making way to discover if you are heading that way is to take the bull by the horns and make it clear as mud to him that you are romantically interested in him. Then step back and see how he reacts.

 

For example, if he goes in for a half hug that is quickly broken away, you pull him in tighter and don't let him go until you give him a kiss on teh cheek as well.

 

if you make your intentions clear, his will become clear too. If he says nothing, and does nothing, you can safely assume *that* is the message.

 

It's one of those tough lessons in life but people do what they want to do. If they're not doing something, it's because -for whatever reason - they don't want to do it.

 

Call him up. tell him you had a fun time at his party and you'd like to get a little one on one time with him. invite him out. see what happens.

 

Poppy, I agree with everything in your post, esp. the bolded. Sometimes you have to force your hand, to see what the other person's intentions truly are in new dating situations. Actions (or the absence of them) speak louder than words. I don't judge people either. I just try to understand where they're coming from.

 

MissTrudy, if you want to call and ask him out for some one-on-one time then you should. Maybe he is just shy and was being polite by not trying to make the moves on you after he took you home. The only way to find out if he's interested in seeing you again is to ask him. What do you have to lose by being honest?

Edited May 5, 2014 by writergal

[MissTrudy]

Ok. So I invited him over to my house for dinner, which he gladly accepted. We had a really good meal and also watched a movie on my couch. We were together for about 5 hours and had a lot of fun! But it definitely reeks of friend zone.

 

I leaned on him during the movie, first with my hand on his back and then with my head on his shoulder. He kept his hands in his lap the entire time. I could feel him trembling a little while I was leaning on him but he didn't recoil. He eventually put his head on top of mine, which was cute.

 

We talked for at least 2 hours after the movie and he hugged me goodnight, but it was definitely the way a guy would hug his sister. He is super tall so I can't really initiate a kiss with him, I tried to hint at it but either he didn't get it or he didn't want to do it.

 

He said he wants to see me soon and asked me to go with him to this event he goes to every year, and that is why I am confused. He also hasn't signed into the okc account since our first date. But he treats me like one of his friends or a sister. I have no idea what is going on with this dude. It might be time to throw in the towel for me and just relegate him to the friend zone, because he clearly is not responding to the very obvious fact that I like him.

 

Part of me wants to say something the next time we go out and we're alone, but I don't really know how to brooch the subject.