Feeling stuck

May 4, 2014

I don't know that I've got any inspirational solutions for you here but I can say that I remember similar situations during the period where my exwife and I were trying to reconcile.

One thing that I started to notice is that I felt better after my wife broke down with guilt. It was like I NEEDED to see that pain in her and then I was suddenly full of empathy for her. I was never trying to punish her but I think that if she wasn't suffering (and I was most certainly suffering) that I felt more cheated or doubtful or something. I started to be very wary of that dynamic because I didn't like it.

May 4, 2014

Thanks for your reply. That was your advice btw:) to only talk on certain days. I too feel empathy for him today, not last night though I was a mess. Maybe that is why I felt the relief this morning, because of the pain he displayed but I do fear it's because I am so tired already of having to deal with this pain that maybe I do want out. It's so soon I can't see clearly. Did things get better for you? Did it become clearer as time passed?

May 4, 2014

Red,

I am a BH just over 3 months out of DDay with my WW. As I am finding, R is more of a roller coaster ride than a straight path.

I have my days where I just want to get off of that roller coaster of emotions and the quickest way to do that is to start detaching from our relationship. Then the next day it hits me what I would be walking away from and I crawl right back onto the roller coaster.

Give yourself some slack. I would not become overly worried unless you have a long period (at least a week) where you feel detached/released and have no desire to get back on the coaster. If that happens, then I would start seriously contemplating the future of your R. But don't fret too much if its just a temporary state of mind.

May 4, 2014

Thank you. I appreciate your words and I wish you the best in your R as well.

May 4, 2014

Thanks for your reply. That was your advice btw:) to only talk on certain days. I too feel empathy for him today, not last night though I was a mess. Maybe that is why I felt the relief this morning, because of the pain he displayed but I do fear it's because I am so tired already of having to deal with this pain that maybe I do want out. It's so soon I can't see clearly. Did things get better for you? Did it become clearer as time passed?

Well, it's probably not going to become clearer for probably quite a while. My two components for a successful reconciliation are (1) A truly remorseful wayward spouse and (2) a truly forgiving betrayed spouse. And #2 cannot come before #1. I think it can take a year or more to figure out if your spouse is truly remorseful or faking it. That's a long damn time to not be sure what you're actually dealing with.

I think that the actions of the wayward go the furthest when it comes to rebuilding that trust. And then you have to ask yourself about your capacity for forgiveness (although you can think about that along the way, too). Conventional wisdom puts reconciliation at about 2-5 years. We can debate that but the fact is that most of the time, it takes a long time. How much patience do you have for that process to play out? How much patience does your husband have? I actually think that these difficult conversations are critical so that it's a team effort. You don't choke down a shi.t sandwich all on your own. Your spouse is there with you and you process it together.

Then again, what the hell do I know? My reconciliation failed, primarily because my wife was still breaking no-contact and lying about some heavy-duty stuff. I screwed up, too. I will tell you that I got to a point where I believe I could forgive the affair but I couldn't reconcile with someone who was actively lying to my face. Lying was the real dealbreaker with me.

I also wanted to say, cut yourself a break. You didn't ask for this. You're navigating as best you can and doing it without a playbook. Keep your integrity intact and you'll come out of this. It just IS hard no matter what you do. Hell, my DDay is 3 years ago and I've been divorced for a good year and a half and my ex pissed me off like three times just today. Even a divorce doesn't guarantee a quick 'out' from dealing with this mess. It's gonna take some time but you're going to be fine.

May 4, 2014

Did his affair end? Has he communicated at all with his OW? Did you tell anyone -if his OW was married, her husband?

May 4, 2014

Thanks a lot. I really enjoy your posts because I feel that you state the facts, which are sometimes hard to hear but you do it in a noneffensive way. I don't blame you for the choice you made. The lying is the hardest part but appears to be the consistent thing in all if the stories here on LS at least in this section. The lying and breaking NC is one of my deal breakers for going forward with my H, so I can see why you couldn't accept that from your W. at the end of the day I will never understand why a person would enter into R while still communicating with the AP, I told my H if he ever wants that then let me go. Ill hurt but I never want to go through this again it's bad enough once. Thank you again for your thoughtful responses.

May 4, 2014

Did his affair end? Has he communicated at all with his OW? Did you tell anyone -if his OW was married, her husband?

Yes. The A is over. Dday was 5 months ago and he wrote( on his own) a NC letter to her and emailed it. She responded that she completely agreed and did not love him either( that was part of the letter, the A was very short) and stated she told her H everything and was happy. Then 2 weeks later she emailed stating she lied and she did live him but was going to respect his wishes. That email was loaded with "I know you don't care, It hurts you regret me and I never would have told your W". All my H saw in it was that she was respecting NC going forward, as a woman I saw all the messages in it. He responded that he asked her to leave him alone and asked that she respect it. Then nothing until about a month ago when she emailed from an address that was different, as she is blocked everywhere, stating she wanted to clear the air. He responded in a very direct manner and also told her he can't believe she would have the nerve after 4 months to contact him and threatened to tell her H. We have not told her H and I have never spoken to or responded to her. This is his mess and I have decided that if she contacts again, so far nothing since the the last, that I will contact her. It is up to her to tell her H but my H has stated if she does cross the line again he will email her H everything since DDay and inform her H that this wasn't her first affair. She told my H this which was risky in my mind. But I'm sure she thought they would ride off into the sunset so it wasn't a risk.

May 4, 2014

Thanks a lot. I really enjoy your posts because I feel that you state the facts, which are sometimes hard to hear but you do it in a noneffensive way. I don't blame you for the choice you made. The lying is the hardest part but appears to be the consistent thing in all if the stories here on LS at least in this section. The lying and breaking NC is one of my deal breakers for going forward with my H, so I can see why you couldn't accept that from your W. at the end of the day I will never understand why a person would enter into R while still communicating with the AP, I told my H if he ever wants that then let me go. Ill hurt but I never want to go through this again it's bad enough once. Thank you again for your thoughtful responses.

I sense some empathy for your husband from you. I think a lot of waywards feel punished when talking about the affair. If you want to help him, it might be good to express that your need to talk isn't about punishment. I think regret and remorse are ok and good on his part but I don't like it when waywards feel shame and I doubt that's your intent. Talking is just a very necessary part of the process for you and even after the difficult ones, you both benefit. Do what you can to make him feel safe when talking with you. Commit to things like not raising your voice, swearing, throwing things and so forth. It's also ok to celebrate the positive things. My wife and I usually made a point to reconnect after a session. And no matter what anyone says, he's your husband and you're perfectly well allowed to have satisfying sex with him. Just reserve your right to call bullshi.t anytime you see it. Keep your dealbreakers. What else are you going to do?

May 4, 2014

Yes. The A is over. Dday was 5 months ago and he wrote( on his own) a NC letter to her and emailed it. She responded that she completely agreed and did not love him either( that was part of the letter, the A was very short) and stated she told her H everything and was happy. Then 2 weeks later she emailed stating she lied and she did live him but was going to respect his wishes. That email was loaded with "I know you don't care, It hurts you regret me and I never would have told your W". All my H saw in it was that she was respecting NC going forward, as a woman I saw all the messages in it. He responded that he asked her to leave him alone and asked that she respect it. Then nothing until about a month ago when she emailed from an address that was different, as she is blocked everywhere, stating she wanted to clear the air. He responded in a very direct manner and also told her he can't believe she would have the nerve after 4 months to contact him and threatened to tell her H. We have not told her H and I have never spoken to or responded to her. This is his mess and I have decided that if she contacts again, so far nothing since the the last, that I will contact her. It is up to her to tell her H but my H has stated if she does cross the line again he will email her H everything since DDay and inform her H that this wasn't her first affair. She told my H this which was risky in my mind. But I'm sure she thought they would ride off into the sunset so it wasn't a risk.

Unless all of these messages are being coordinated, it sounds like your H has done all of the right things. From what I read here, you and your H are both resolved that if there is one more contact, then the H will be told. So be it. At minimum, stick to that standard. I think he should be told anyway but that's another subject. If NC is broken again, I hope it's your husband leading the charge. What's your confidence level that he hasn't been in touch with her?

May 4, 2014

When I am feeling extra paranoid I fear that the communication has been coordinated but honestly i don't think he has been in any contact with her.

He has expressed that this A is a complete embarrassment for him. 3.5 months door to door and she started the Ilys after 2 weeks of IMs only. He can't believe the way he conducted himself and states that he has no found memories of her only remorse and disgust. I hope this is true as I can only take his word for it. I'm just shocked at how juvenile this A was. Sex twice but mostly just making out for 20 minutes at lunch and IMs at work. They never snuck out on weekends or rarely communicated at home. I can't believe she still hangs on to this. We are both women in our 30s have careers and children, and I can't imagine pining for someone who has told me to hit the road. But with that said look at where I am, so I guess we all have our issues:)

May 4, 2014

Unless all of these messages are being coordinated, it sounds like your H has done all of the right things. From what I read here, you and your H are both resolved that if there is one more contact, then the H will be told. So be it. At minimum, stick to that standard. I think he should be told anyway but that's another subject. If NC is broken again, I hope it's your husband leading the charge. What's your confidence level that he hasn't been in touch with her?

Just curious, why do you think her H should be told? I would fear after all this time that I didn't do it soon enough and now would be opening a big can of sh@t and inviting contact with them.

May 4, 2014

Yes. The A is over. Dday was 5 months ago and he wrote( on his own) a NC letter to her and emailed it. She responded that she completely agreed and did not love him either( that was part of the letter, the A was very short) and stated she told her H everything and was happy. Then 2 weeks later she emailed stating she lied and she did live him but was going to respect his wishes. That email was loaded with "I know you don't care, It hurts you regret me and I never would have told your W". All my H saw in it was that she was respecting NC going forward, as a woman I saw all the messages in it. He responded that he asked her to leave him alone and asked that she respect it. Then nothing until about a month ago when she emailed from an address that was different, as she is blocked everywhere, stating she wanted to clear the air. He responded in a very direct manner and also told her he can't believe she would have the nerve after 4 months to contact him and threatened to tell her H. We have not told her H and I have never spoken to or responded to her. This is his mess and I have decided that if she contacts again, so far nothing since the the last, that I will contact her. It is up to her to tell her H but my H has stated if she does cross the line again he will email her H everything since DDay and inform her H that this wasn't her first affair. She told my H this which was risky in my mind. But I'm sure she thought they would ride off into the sunset so it wasn't a risk.

I think she's continued to contact your H - so it's time to tell her husband. He deserves to know who he's married to.

How did you learn of the affair?

May 4, 2014

I found condoms and he confessed. I of course didn't learn everything right away but eventually he came fully clean, at least I think. We never fully know. It was pretty early on in the A so maybe that's the reason it was so short. Telling her H is the next step if the contact continues even though I'm afraid of opening up contact with them.

May 4, 2014

There are a lot of blind spots in this thread in terms of the WS, and in terms of what is going on in his responses.

Some general observations to think about because in 5 minutes of reading I cannot possibly know ANYTHING significant about your 17 years of marriage.

(My wife of 17 years had a LTR (very long infatuation, then significant EA, then a very active PA with a colleague from her university, although her AP was a single man.)

You are five months in.

Everyone here loves to talk about deal-breakers (ha, even if we are not able to keep them!). I think this is good, and bad. Good because it sets expectations, bad, because they can create panic and overcompensating and force the WS to actually hide the truth to avoid the deal-breaker. Realise that your DB might influence MORE his responses / issues than is healthy for the R.

I did something similar. For example, I told my WS if she ever had any significant (non-university required) contact with the AP she was out the door and loses her daughter. My DDay was April, so I also told her that if she was still having feelings for her AP by July 25th, she was DEFINITELY NOT coming to Canada with myself and our daughter to spend a month with my family.

Well, as July approached, she did everything to try to convince me he was no longer in here head, but it simply wasn't true. I later realised that I cannot dictate how anyone can, or under what timetable, anyone can ELIMINATE a 2 Year love affair. My point was I simply didnt want to be with her if she was thinking about another man.

5 months into the recovery, she was exhibiting hovering behaviours. Like I said, "NO un-official contact". So she booked a table in a faculty cafeteria to have a meeting with her research group KNOWING he eats there daily. It was a lunch meeting, so in her head she could do this because he was not supposed to eat with them, but he tried, and on the second "booking" he did.

Of course she was "outraged" and panicked, and completely behaving as a WS is supposed to behave, the point was she was hovering. (It's a term used for narcissistic people who want to keep broken connections alive as long as possible even if they are not going to do anything about them)

Writing replies to each and every email from an AP feeds hovering behaviour, as outraged as he is. NC is NC. He does not have to respond to her emails. Okay, whats done is done. You made a threat you may or may not keep, and he got to see her words again, see her pain, feed (possibly- I dont know his case) his narcissistic need to have her out there waiting on him. (Im not saying he is going back! Narcissistic behaviour dictates he only needs to know she is, that is enough for now.

Let me sum this up as fast as I can, this is your story, not mine.

a) His affair was "very short" means very little to mean: it can mean there is more intensity or it can mean you pulled him out of his fantasy before too late. But it has no relationship to his attachments.

b) On the 8th month, on Christmas Eve, to be exact, my WS essentially told me she, after all we had done, and we had done a lot of REPAIR WORK, "thought" that she was "still torn" over her AP and me. GREAT I get to relive DDAY all over again. 5 months might have been enough, or it might mean nothing in your case. You might still be repairing yourself with a husband who is desperately compartmentalizing his emotions so as to avoid the thoughts and images he knows he has (he doesnt want them, I get that, but there they are, alive and well living in his conscious mind!) because he is worried how they affect your M, and more importantly, your deal-breaker issues. It's not his fault if he still has fond memories. We don't have an erase button. That's why they made the movie "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind"

His response to your discussions, in which he says things like, I shouldn't be married to you, I don't deserve you are to be taken very carefully. They MIGHT (Please, I repeat, I do not know your H from anything!) actually be the opposite: the result of being torn, of still having strong attachments to the affair (I said AFFAIR, not the AP necessarily). Like the teenager who says we have to break up, it's not you, it's me.

You are going to need patience, but you also have to repair yourself.

So a big question in my mind is: WHAT has your WS done to repair himself emotionally from this A? (Aside from self flagellation and mutual sh-t-bombing the AP) what evidence do you have that he has emotionally rid himself of her? and forgiven himself his A? He has to repair himself, not just help you with your repair and reconciliation. There are good articles and books for you to read about what the WS is going through, and how to ensure they too get over the A, not just the part where they caused your pain. (Please, I am not saying he is going to start up again! Im saying emotions are not light switches)

My own reconciliation could not begin until Jan 30, 9 full months after DDAy, and after I insisted on January 1st a one month "structure separation" in order to get my spouse away from me and my pain so that she would deal with her "torn" issues and be able to come back KNOWING that her AP was no longer an issue for us, that she knew 100% she wanted to stay in this marriage, and that we could stop talking about HIM, and start talking again about US.

Ill stop there...

Edited May 4, 2014 by fellini

May 4, 2014

Just curious, why do you think her H should be told? I would fear after all this time that I didn't do it soon enough and now would be opening a big can of sh@t and inviting contact with them.

I just always think that a betrayed spouse has a right to know so that they can make their own informed decision about how to move forward. But like you, I hesitated for a while at first. Honestly, I used it as a sort of blackmail to keep the OM away from my wife (threatened to expose if he didn't). Eventually (after about six weeks), I told her anyway. I have never regretted that decision. It's just the right thing to do.

May 4, 2014

There are a lot of blind spots in this thread in terms of the WS, and in terms of what is going on in his responses.

Some general observations to think about because in 5 minutes of reading I cannot possibly know ANYTHING significant about your 17 years of marriage.

(My wife of 17 years had a LTR (very long infatuation, then significant EA, then a very active PA with a colleague from her university, although her AP was a single man.)

You are five months in.
Everyone here loves to talk about deal-breakers (ha, even if we are not able to keep them!). I think this is good, and bad. Good because it sets expectations, bad, because they can create panic and overcompensating and force the WS to actually hide the truth to avoid the deal-breaker. Realise that your DB might influence MORE his responses / issues than is healthy for the R.

I did something similar. For example, I told my WS if she ever had any significant (non-university required) contact with the AP she was out the door and loses her daughter. My DDay was April, so I also told her that if she was still having feelings for her AP by July 25th, she was DEFINITELY NOT coming to Canada with myself and our daughter to spend a month with my family.

Well, as July approached, she did everything to try to convince me he was no longer in here head, but it simply wasn't true. I later realised that I cannot dictate how anyone can, or under what timetable, anyone can ELIMINATE a 2 Year love affair. My point was I simply didnt want to be with her if she was thinking about another man.

5 months into the recovery, she was exhibiting hovering behaviours. Like I said, "NO un-official contact". So she booked a table in a faculty cafeteria to have a meeting with her research group KNOWING he eats there daily. It was a lunch meeting, so in her head she could do this because he was not supposed to eat with them, but he tried, and on the second "booking" he did.

Of course she was "outraged" and panicked, and completely behaving as a WS is supposed to behave, the point was she was hovering. (It's a term used for narcissistic people who want to keep broken connections alive as long as possible even if they are not going to do anything about them)

Writing replies to each and every email from an AP feeds hovering behaviour, as outraged as he is. NC is NC. He does not have to respond to her emails. Okay, whats done is done. You made a threat you may or may not keep, and he got to see her words again, see her pain, feed (possibly- I dont know his case) his narcissistic need to have her out there waiting on him. (Im not saying he is going back! Narcissistic behaviour dictates he only needs to know she is, that is enough for now.

Let me sum this up as fast as I can, this is your story, not mine.

a) His affair was "very short" means very little to mean: it can mean there is more intensity or it can mean you pulled him out of his fantasy before too late. But it has no relationship to his attachments.

b) On the 8th month, on Christmas Eve, to be exact, my WS essentially told me she, after all we had done, and we had done a lot of REPAIR WORK, "thought" that she was "still torn" over her AP and me. GREAT I get to relive DDAY all over again. 5 months might have been enough, or it might mean nothing in your case. You might still be repairing yourself with a husband who is desperately compartmentalizing his emotions so as to avoid the thoughts and images he knows he has (he doesnt want them, I get that, but there they are, alive and well living in his conscious mind!) because he is worried how they affect your M, and more importantly, your deal-breaker issues. It's not his fault if he still has fond memories. We don't have an erase button. That's why they made the movie "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind"

His response to your discussions, in which he says things like, I shouldn't be married to you, I don't deserve you are to be taken very carefully. They MIGHT (Please, I repeat, I do not know your H from anything!) actually be the opposite: the result of being torn, of still having strong attachments to the affair (I said AFFAIR, not the AP necessarily). Like the teenager who says we have to break up, it's not you, it's me.

You are going to need patience, but you also have to repair yourself.

So a big question in my mind is: WHAT has your WS done to repair himself emotionally from this A? (Aside from self flagellation and mutual sh-t-bombing the AP) what evidence do you have that he has emotionally rid himself of her? and forgiven himself his A? He has to repair himself, not just help you with your repair and reconciliation. There are good articles and books for you to read about what the WS is going through, and how to ensure they too get over the A, not just the part where they caused your pain. (Please, I am not saying he is going to start up again! Im saying emotions are not light switches)

My own reconciliation could not begin until Jan 30, 9 full months after DDAy, and after I insisted on January 1st a one month "structure separation" in order to get my spouse away from me and my pain so that she would deal with her "torn" issues and be able to come back KNOWING that her AP was no longer an issue for us, that she knew 100% she wanted to stay in this marriage, and that we could stop talking about HIM, and start talking again about US.

Ill stop there...

Thanks for your response. It certainly gave me another perspective to think about aNd to talk about with my H. Well I guess I can try to answer a couple if things that stood out in your post. I agree that it is difficult to get the story from just reading a post on a thread and of course I could write for days if I was putting the whole story out there, so this is just a small piece of it. I guess I'll start with the evidence that my H has emotionally moved on or forgiven himself. I don't believe that he has forgiven himself as if yet but I do hope he does. As far as removing himself from the A, I look at actions. I look at the way he was during the A with me versus now. As I believed I knew him very well prior to this I knew something was very wrong during and the way he treated me was very different than he does now or prior to the A.

I believe my DBs are fair and I stand by them. They are not difficult for him to do if he wants this to work. I was willing to walk and he decided to he wanted this so if he does he will follow through with what he said he would do, not what I told him, the DBs came from his promises.

I believe him that he doesn't think foundly of her. If he does see her he lets me know and tells me how he feels. As far as the response to the contact I have asked that he responds because she works in his iffice( they have no dealings, different departments in a large office) so that if she ever tried to say he was the pursuer we have proof. I do not tell him how to respond, and he actually wants to not respond at all when she contacts him. He sends me the contact emails and his responses.

I guess we can never know what's going on in someone's mind and if he is still pining over her or they are in contact it will come out and I will do what I need to. If he wants this he will stick to what he says. I don't believe his responses are based on my DBs because I have heard many things that I wish I didn't from him.

May 5, 2014

I guess we can never know what's going on in someone's mind and if he is still pining over her or they are in contact it will come out and I will do what I need to. If he wants this he will stick to what he says. I don't believe his responses are based on my DBs because I have heard many things that I wish I didn't from him.

Affairs produce an enormous chemical reaction in the body of those who participate in them. When an affair ends, the effect of the addiction becomes evident. There is nothing we can will ourselves to do about this. We have to simply work on ourselves and get through the time it takes to come down off these "drugs" we have created through infidelity, and overcome the tendency to want to get a quick fix to have them back. Hyper-bonding is a fantastic source of erotic recover in a married couple immediately after dday, and the effect can actually be to transfer the creation of those affair drugs onto the primary relationship (where it belongs!). If this is something that happens for you, something to consider is to recover the erotic aspect of your relationship that the "stability" of marriage has taken away. Reinvest in creating these feelings in the marriage. There are lots of resources on this (my favourite is Esther Perel: "Mating in Captivity") But there are others.

It is entirely possible that your H has no idea that this is happening to him. Even while he might HATE the AP, he still loves the drug! So Im not worried he will stray necessarily, but simply saying it's possible he is exhibiting the effects of affair withdrawal. For some people, this is a real test of their ability to get through, others manage quite fine. Those who are having a problem can actually suffer from an hysterical realisation / panic attacks that actually stem from: "I am never going to have those feelings again and they were awesome!" They miss the feelings, not the object of them. As in any addiction/recovery

Edited May 5, 2014 by fellini

May 5, 2014

I was unable to save my M......

Your is fixable....PLEASE listen to these people on here...

Fellini..who i dont always agree with....has been though it!!

and still is....and Fellini would never steer you wrong ,and is a wealth of info.

to help you find your way...

I wish you all the best...

May 5, 2014

Thank you. I always appreciate the different perspectives and thoughts I get on here. I wish you well as well.

May 5, 2014

Affairs produce an enormous chemical reaction in the body of those who participate in them. When an affair ends, the effect of the addiction becomes evident. There is nothing we can will ourselves to do about this. We have to simply work on ourselves and get through the time it takes to come down off these "drugs" we have created through infidelity, and overcome the tendency to want to get a quick fix to have them back. Hyper-bonding is a fantastic source of erotic recover in a married couple immediately after dday, and the effect can actually be to transfer the creation of those affair drugs onto the primary relationship (where it belongs!). If this is something that happens for you, something to consider is to recover the erotic aspect of your relationship that the "stability" of marriage has taken away. Reinvest in creating these feelings in the marriage. There are lots of resources on this (my favourite is Esther Perel: "Mating in Captivity") But there are others.

It is entirely possible that your H has no idea that this is happening to him. Even while he might HATE the AP, he still loves the drug! So Im not worried he will stray necessarily, but simply saying it's possible he is exhibiting the effects of affair withdrawal. For some people, this is a real test of their ability to get through, others manage quite fine. Those who are having a problem can actually suffer from an hysterical realisation / panic attacks that actually stem from: "I am never going to have those feelings again and they were awesome!" They miss the feelings, not the object of them. As in any addiction/recovery

Thanks for the input. I guess I should start by saying that at this time I'm really not worried that my H is going to reengage in the A and I don't believe he is speaking to her. I have read quite a bit on the chemical effects of An A and the fog that some experience and I do not believe that is the case with my H at this time. I believe we have already been through something like that. When I state my Dday as 5 months ago it is because that is when all of the truth came out and he went NC immediately. I actually found out very early on and we dealt with a lot at that point. When I say the A was 3.5 months I count everything from their first conversation before they began to really cross the line, the active A which was a month, the LC where they were IM around three times a week to the day he sent the NC letter. After I originally found out we separated, still living together but not a couple at that time. He went through what I would call a fog where he wasn't sure what he wanted and was still very into how she made him feel about himself and the highs from the A. Because I saw the way he was then, I am pretty sure this is no longer a concern for us. He states that in his mind all that us left is shame, embarrassment and remorse and his xAP represents all of his bad choices. As far as hysterical bonding we were there for a long time and things are still great in that department although that was never a problem in our relationship.

So just to be clear, I am not concerned at this time that he will go back to the A but my thread was more about my feelings and reaction to his breakdown on Friday night. I was worried about the weight that was lifted when he said he didn't want to R. Which he immediately took back. I couldn't figure out why I was so relieved but I think with some perspectives from others I have a handle on it now.

May 5, 2014

Also, I know that you are not saying he is but just pointing out the possibility but I do not believe my H is a narcissist. Other than his A there has been nothing in our time together that would indicate that.

May 5, 2014

my thread was more about my feelings and reaction to his breakdown on Friday night. I was worried about the weight that was lifted when he said he didn't want to R. Which he immediately took back. I couldn't figure out why I was so relieved but I think with some perspectives from others I have a handle on it now.

To address this more specifically, it's really no wonder that him throwing in the towel was a relief to you. Reconciliation is hard, hard stuff. It's exhausting. When I finally made the decision to divorce (a decision that took nearly 9 months to make), I felt like the weight of the world was lifted off of my shoulders. It was like, "Oh thank God that's over."

But when children are involved, I can tell you that the relief is short-lived. It took us about another 9 months to actually get divorced and even since, I have to deal with her almost daily on co-parenting issues. Disagreements are much more difficult to resolve since we're not married and as geared to compromise. And she knows exactly how to push my all of my buttons without violating our marital settlement agreement. Even when she does violate the agreement, I'd be forced to get attorneys involved again to enforce a resolution.

So, I totally 'get' the sense of relief you experienced but unless you don't have kids, don't expect that the sense of relief would last long. You'd just be transitioning to a whole new pile of crap to handle.

May 5, 2014

I believe that. We do have children and of course that is always on mind when thinking future. I think you hit the nail on the head with the relief being because R is so hard. It's not that I'm actually done but the amount of focus on this is overwhelming. I appreciate the perspective from the other side from you. Even D doesn't end the pain. From where I sit it looks good somedays, so thanks for reality check. I'm still trying.

May 5, 2014

I believe that. We do have children and of course that is always on mind when thinking future. I think you hit the nail on the head with the relief being because R is so hard. It's not that I'm actually done but the amount of focus on this is overwhelming. I appreciate the perspective from the other side from you. Even D doesn't end the pain. From where I sit it looks good somedays, so thanks for reality check. I'm still trying.

D doesn't end the pain but it can definitely begin to put you on a healthy path if staying in the M is unhealthy. I tend to think that it's best not to run from either choice. It takes a while but if you can get to a point where you know you'll be ok no matter how it turns out, I think it starts to become much easier to think clearly. So much of the early days is about fear. We're afraid to divorce, afraid to lose our spouse, afraid to be alone, afraid of what will happen to the kids, afraid of the logistics (money, home, schools), afraid of the stigma, afraid that we'll make the wrong choice - it goes on and on. At the same time, we're afraid of staying, afraid of being miserable, afraid that we're accepting less than we should, afraid that we might never really reconnect again, afraid something like this might happen again, and so forth.

That's a lot to handle. I think it takes a lot of work to get to the point when you realize that his affair really wasn't about you (so you stop beating yourself up with self-doubt) and realize that you will be ok no matter what. That's a tall order and of the 5 stages of grief, it's the last. But once you can accept that this is the new reality and no longer be crushed by it, it becomes very liberating to know that you have survived and will eventually thrive regardless of what comes your way. Fear and emotions will not drive your choices anymore.

But it doesn't happen at five months. You're just getting to the point of having some confidence about what the truth really is (it's really helpful when they stop lying about that part, isn't it?) and then you start working towards acceptance of the fact that this is the new dynamic and new marriage. He is different than you thought. You are now also different. You come to grips with that (I think you're getting darn close, by the way) and then you have to decide if these two people should be married. That part is going to take some time.

As well, your H has to come to grips with the new dynamic as well. You're only half of the equation. His journey is different but ain't an easy one either. I think the key there is to make sure that he's not just staying out of fear, guilt, and obligation. Those are powerful motivators in the early days.

Anyway, my gut says that you can put this one issue to bed (this recent incident). It was a speedbump and the car didn't crash. I haven't followed your other thread because it was about reconciliation (and mine failed so I tend to try to avoid giving much advice on that) but I'll get caught up on it. If things go as they are, it sounds like you may end up a success story. And I like those.

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