M30USA Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 In all honesty, sometimes the Bible is too much to handle. It really bereaves me to think that truth is veiled from the world, most of us are living in darkness, and that unfortunately many souls will be in hell. I don't want this to be true. Sometimes I genuinely think I'd rather everyone die and turn into nothing. Maybe this is why the prophet John, when he saw the judgement in a vision, he said it first tasted "sweet" to him--but when he fully comprehended the implications that many souls were lost, the truth turned "bitter" in his stomach. Any Christians ever feel like this? I mean, it could be your own BROTHER, SISTER, MOTHER, or FATHER. 2
Gunny376 Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Depends and relative to which of the at least 41,000 different denominations and/or 97 different Bibles one subscribes to? The Bible is a hodgepodge collection squires over the last Six thousand years from various different cultures, societies, civilizations, religions, myths, fables, and fallacies which in the light of modern day are day are GROSSLY misinterpreted, misunderstood and taken out of context from their original intent almost from conception beginning immediately after the death of "Jesus Christ" by Paul / Saul. Personally? I subscribe to the Gospel of James The Just (Brother of "Jesus Christ") and the Essene's as the true source document of Christian religion? If one IMHO would want to be a true pure" Christian than one would need to be a member of the "Church of Jerusalem " and be versed in their teachings. 1
TheFinalWord Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 In all honesty, sometimes the Bible is too much to handle. It really bereaves me to think that truth is veiled from the world, most of us are living in darkness, and that unfortunately many souls will be in hell. I don't want this to be true. Sometimes I genuinely think I'd rather everyone die and turn into nothing. Maybe this is why the prophet John, when he saw the judgement in a vision, he said it first tasted "sweet" to him--but when he fully comprehended the implications that many souls were lost, the truth turned "bitter" in his stomach. Any Christians ever feel like this? I mean, it could be your own BROTHER, SISTER, MOTHER, or FATHER. Maybe this discomfort in your spirit is the Spirit trying to refine something in you 2
pie2 Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 In all honesty, sometimes the Bible is too much to handle. It really bereaves me to think that truth is veiled from the world, most of us are living in darkness, and that unfortunately many souls will be in hell. I don't want this to be true. Sometimes I genuinely think I'd rather everyone die and turn into nothing. Maybe this is why the prophet John, when he saw the judgement in a vision, he said it first tasted "sweet" to him--but when he fully comprehended the implications that many souls were lost, the truth turned "bitter" in his stomach. Any Christians ever feel like this? I mean, it could be your own BROTHER, SISTER, MOTHER, or FATHER. Yes, there are parts I wish were different. I don't wish non-believers would disappear upon death...I wish they would have one last chance to stand before God and decide if they're willing to accept and follow God or not. Obviously that level of faith would be less than someone who believed without seeing at all, but they would experience an eternity in heaven, nonetheless. It's hard thinking of very close family members that absolutely refused to hear anything about God before they passed on. But not only that, there are tons of other hard things to follow in the bible. I have a hard time submitting to authority, and following a leader etc. We're raised to be so independent in the US. Whenever I've been around people from a culture that is very group-oriented, I can see the respect that people have for those in power, and how smoothly the group can operate. It's really great. But yeah, definitely something I've struggled with (getting better though ). 1
Gunny376 Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 I don't comprehend as to why one would believe the KJV is the Absolute Truth. When what it says flies when confronted with hard fact anthropological, archeological, palengeological, historical indisputable FACT That Yahweh was basically a Canaanite Storm/ War God that evolved out of Sumerian/ Egyptian religion? That historically the Incas, Aztec, even theya achieved more than the Hebrews/Jews? That Jesus Christ was am Essene Jew ~ a Zealots if you will that sought the expulsion of the Roman? 1
Author M30USA Posted April 26, 2014 Author Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) I don't comprehend as to why one would believe the KJV is the Absolute Truth. When what it says flies when confronted with hard fact anthropological, archeological, palengeological, historical indisputable FACT That Yahweh was basically a Canaanite Storm/ War God that evolved out of Sumerian/ Egyptian religion? That historically the Incas, Aztec, even theya achieved more than the Hebrews/Jews? That Jesus Christ was am Essene Jew ~ a Zealots if you will that sought the expulsion of the Roman? The above post is an example of naturalistic philosophy of history. Secondly, the Bible was written for your and my benefit and, even without it, we are still accountable to the truth because God teaches us through the Holy Spirit. There were people who lived before the Bible was written who have eternal life. Edited April 26, 2014 by M30USA
nittygritty Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 As a Christian, I believe John 3:16-18: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." My family and friends are Christians and also believe that. 1
Author M30USA Posted April 26, 2014 Author Posted April 26, 2014 who gives you the right to determine who's living in darkness? could it be that its really the fundamental chirstians who won't shut the hell up about their religion are living in darkness? i don't just not believe in your religion, I'm anti your religion. you chose the dark path of fundamentalism. I'm not talking about religion or fundamental Christians. Half the time they're wrong. I'm talking about what Jesus Christ said. Listen to him only. 1
FreedomRings Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 In all honesty, sometimes the Bible is too much to handle. It really bereaves me to think that truth is veiled from the world, most of us are living in darkness, and that unfortunately many souls will be in hell. I don't want this to be true. Sometimes I genuinely think I'd rather everyone die and turn into nothing. Maybe this is why the prophet John, when he saw the judgement in a vision, he said it first tasted "sweet" to him--but when he fully comprehended the implications that many souls were lost, the truth turned "bitter" in his stomach. Any Christians ever feel like this? I mean, it could be your own BROTHER, SISTER, MOTHER, or FATHER. I don't really wish it weren't true. I believe that God is just, and that his plan is ultimately for the good of those who love Him. The bible says to lean not on your own understanding. If there's something you would like more clarity or understanding on regarding the bible, you should pray on it. He comes FIRST before family, friends or anything (as far as worshiping and following). As a Christian, I feel that I am here for HIM. And that Christ died for my sins and that by His grace, I am saved. I have chosen to have faith in Him, therefore I now belong to Him. Not everyone has faith. Not everyone has accepted His gift of grace. And that's expected. There's a purpose for everything God does and he reveals to us only what is necessary that his will be done. That's to my understanding, though. So, no I don't wish parts of the bible weren't true. I respect it and feel that it is the way it is for just reasons. 2
FreedomRings Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) he didn't die for your sins because you weren't even born yet. did you flunk science? religion is just an excuse for one group to condemn another group. where people can use the word love but really mean hate. god is to be mocked. I don't really see my faith as 'religion'. I am a follower of Christ. Do you condemn 'religious' groups? You seem upset. EDIT: This is off topic. You don't have to answer my question. I'm not trying to hi-jack the thread. Edited April 26, 2014 by FreedomRings just wanted to add 3
Author M30USA Posted April 26, 2014 Author Posted April 26, 2014 I don't really wish it weren't true. I believe that God is just, and that his plan is ultimately for the good of those who love Him. The bible says to lean not on your own understanding. If there's something you would like more clarity or understanding on regarding the bible, you should pray on it. He comes FIRST before family, friends or anything (as far as worshiping and following). As a Christian, I feel that I am here for HIM. And that Christ died for my sins and that by His grace, I am saved. I have chosen to have faith in Him, therefore I now belong to Him. Not everyone has faith. Not everyone has accepted His gift of grace. And that's expected. There's a purpose for everything God does and he reveals to us only what is necessary that his will be done. That's to my understanding, though. So, no I don't wish parts of the bible weren't true. I respect it and feel that it is the way it is for just reasons. Jesus would tell you, "Great is your faith."
nittygritty Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 which makes you and your family and friends haters and radical nutcases and hypocrites. you can call hate love all you want, but its really pure hate. theres no worse hate than saying someone who doesn't believe in a contrived fairytale will suffer worse torture than the holocaust eternally. all this talk about love from religious people is pile of junk. so i asked one what about obama's new healthcare law and all its benefits to the poor to get them health insured. turned into a rant of her calling them freeloaders and a bunch of bile that's not fit to type here. so much for helping the poor. religious people don't give a rats ass about the poor and have contempt for the poor. they just want everyone to convert to their way of thinking, and will bully others into it. when they give to the poor, its not to help them, but to convert them. nothing is pure. this will end up in a war, the fundies are begging for it. but maybe to fundies love is war since they twist everything else around. If you want to compare being a Christian or having religious beliefs to having insurance or not, that's fine. As a believer, whether my religious beliefs are right or wrong, I'm covered. As a non-believer are you? Have you ever even considered the possibility that you could be wrong? 1
CarrieT Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 Have you ever even considered the possibility that you could be wrong? No, the OP will not. Last year, in a this thread (around page 5), I proposed reasons why my experiences might be more valid (in this response) and he never could respond to it...
pureinheart Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 In all honesty, sometimes the Bible is too much to handle. It really bereaves me to think that truth is veiled from the world, most of us are living in darkness, and that unfortunately many souls will be in hell. I don't want this to be true. Sometimes I genuinely think I'd rather everyone die and turn into nothing. Maybe this is why the prophet John, when he saw the judgement in a vision, he said it first tasted "sweet" to him--but when he fully comprehended the implications that many souls were lost, the truth turned "bitter" in his stomach. Any Christians ever feel like this? I mean, it could be your own BROTHER, SISTER, MOTHER, or FATHER. Wow M30, interesting that you bring this up. I just lost a family member (by marriage), friend of over 30 years. Honestly, I'm horrible with evangelism, but do try and have been known to take leaps of faith and go outside of the box… I can't remember if I did with him outside of FB or rumors from family members that I'm a "Bible thumper". He seemed to have gotten VERY sentimental shortly before his death- I so want to see that yes he did have that last minute revelation, but I really don't know. In investigating/looking to see where his head was at on his FB page, two days before his death he wrote on my page, I love you PIH. I missed that due to not being on line much lately and missed speaking directly concerning salvation. 1
Allumere Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 I would guess this is a struggle for most "average" Christians. Trying to reconcile the popular message of unconditional love and laws of Christ and the Bible against the bottom line is tough. It doesn't make sense in my mind that a person who has lived a life that by all accounts as a good person would be damned in death because they were a non-believer for whatever reason. I cannot see some of my friends that are other faiths or none at all, whose compassion, humbleness and servitude so greatly trump the lives and actions of believers I know (not said in judgement) being denied when a criminal can get the nod for becoming a believer. It is incredibly painful in fact. This is not to dispute what the Bible says or to slight the gifts we receive through repentance and acceptance, simply that it is something I will never resolve completely in my head and heart.
Author M30USA Posted April 26, 2014 Author Posted April 26, 2014 It doesn't make sense in my mind that a person who has lived a life that by all accounts as a good person would be damned in death because they were a non-believer for whatever reason. Who determines what "good" is? A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone." (Luke 18:18, 19 NIV)
beach Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 Who determines what "good" is? A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone." (Luke 18:18, 19 NIV) Which means that this book - bible - is also neither good nor bad - it is simply neutral... It just 'is' - much like most things.
Author M30USA Posted April 26, 2014 Author Posted April 26, 2014 which means that this book - bible - is also neither good nor bad - it is simply neutral... It just 'is' - much like most things. syntax error code 3677.4 please call for assistance
Allumere Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 I know the quote well But the word good and goodness are used throughout the Bible. When I am using the term I am saying these individuals are living a life that exemplifies most of how we are suppose to live/act according to the Bible.
beach Posted April 27, 2014 Posted April 27, 2014 syntax error code 3677.4 please call for assistance You can believe what you wish. It doesn't make it true. I suppose you believe everything you read...? Probably not what I'm writing... Faith has nothing to DO with what any book says. Faith is about action. It's about being of service and helping others do their best. It's believing when you have no reason to believe. To confine anyone's beliefs into such a narrow mindset I or a certain structured guideline isn't right. People believe all sorts of things. Many believe nothing - but when I have loads of evidence of the positive things come from these people's actions - there's a LOT to believe in. The bible is a book. If you want to make it a big deal then go ahead. I live my faith each day - it's a whole lot more rewarding than being confined to what a book states.
Author M30USA Posted April 27, 2014 Author Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) You can believe what you wish. It doesn't make it true. I suppose you believe everything you read...? Probably not what I'm writing... Faith has nothing to DO with what any book says. Faith is about action. It's about being of service and helping others do their best. It's believing when you have no reason to believe. To confine anyone's beliefs into such a narrow mindset I or a certain structured guideline isn't right. People believe all sorts of things. Many believe nothing - but when I have loads of evidence of the positive things come from these people's actions - there's a LOT to believe in. The bible is a book. If you want to make it a big deal then go ahead. I live my faith each day - it's a whole lot more rewarding than being confined to what a book states. Again, it comes back to Jesus. What did he say? He said that no man comes to the Father except through him. You can perceive it as narrow-minded. The bigger question is whether or not this is true. If you are drowning and someone throws you a life preserver, would you start saying, "This is a narrow-minded way of saving me. I mean, why can't there be other ways of getting out of this water other than this life preserver?" Fortunately God HAS provided a way. Narrow or not, he has provided a way. He wasn't obligated to. Edited April 27, 2014 by M30USA 1
TheFinalWord Posted April 27, 2014 Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) Faith has nothing to DO with what any book says. Faith is about action. It's about being of service and helping others do their best. It's believing when you have no reason to believe. . Yes, faith does produce love! To me, the bold text describes love. What do you think? From my studies, I do not see faith as believing when you have no reason. The Greek word for faith is pistis, which means "to be persuaded." For myself, I am not persuaded of something for no reason at all. For example, if you have faith in your wife, there is probably a reason. It is probably from a consistent stream of actions, characteristics, and demonstrated values on her part. Here is more if you want to study: Strong's Greek: 4102. ?????? (pistis) -- faith, faithfulness Edited April 27, 2014 by TheFinalWord 2
Gunny376 Posted April 27, 2014 Posted April 27, 2014 People like to say the Holy Bible is "a book's as if one singular author wrote it? But its no Its a collection of a hodgepodge of stories, myths, legends, fallacies, half truths, emblesisment of the truths, that have berm collected over thousandd of years from many different religions, cultures and civilizations as gay back as Sumer and the Egyptian civilizations. The concept of someone being born of a virgin or resurrection from the dead is thousands of years old predating the story of Christ. There are literally tens of such stories. The story of Christ himself has been corrupted from the very beginning! Even the three Gospels included in the KJV is put of synce and incongrunt. The Old Testament is full of inconsidtences? Yahweh commands that every single living creature ~ every man, woman, child, infant, donkey, ox, sheep, fowl be put to the sword! Yahweh commands that if a stranger breaks into your house and rapes tour virgin daughter that they're both to be put to death He further proclaims that you can sell your daughter into slavery and that you to can own slaves I'm so long as they come from another country? Who were the "men and legends of old?" Who were "The Watchers "? Not angels the Bible makes a clear and distinction between the two as not being one and the same? Who were the Sons of Man? Who were the Neflimn? If Adam and Eve were the first man and woman? Who did their children marry? Who was Lilith if Eve was the first woman? If the Hebrews were God's Chosen People? Why did King Solomon have to employ skilled masons from King Tyre. If.................... . Who, ........ Sorry for confusing the subject with naturalistic facts 2
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