The Pain Came Back

[Davey L]

I really don't think there is ever a reason not to tell. You never get to take that choice away from another person. Sick, dying, etc. whatever, they still deserve the truth.

 

I've been reading posts on here on that subject. Opinions seem very polarised. I've heard people say it is selfish to tell, one is making oneself feel better by confessing at the expense of the other person's happiness; transferring the pain onto them. But of course if we each confess each other's sins, maybe we can both feel better.

 

Interestingly I note that two days ago I saw my problem as to how I was dealing with my wife's affair 18 years ago. But that seems to have changed - my problem now is how do I deal with my own affair 16 years ago.

[bigman1]

I can't tell you whether disclosing or opening up in front of a MC is going to work. A lot of discoveries/disclosures of infidelity happen before MC and then more stuff comes out in MC, if they decide to go.

 

I was simply proposing a possibility. Clearly, if it goes bad when you two are alone it can go bad with a counselor present. I just figure having someone who can be a resource in the moment might be better than trying to do it alone. To use a metaphor, your plane may still crash even with a mechanic on board working to solve the problem, but it was guaranteed to crash without one. Just a thought.

 

Also, 16 and 18 years ago! You guys have some history since that time to pull on. Of course, it will be fresh wounds to her. Still, you suspect a number of affairs, so your level of shock may be lower, unless she just drops some serious bombs on you. Perhaps she had a revenge affair in there because she knew about you and her sister. Who knows?. Seems to me, you guys need to be in MC anyway. May as well make the most of it. My final suggestion, get you a good MC, research them, then do your disclosures etc with them.

[Davey L]

I can't tell you whether disclosing or opening up in front of a MC is going to work. A lot of discoveries/disclosures of infidelity happen before MC and then more stuff comes out in MC, if they decide to go.

 

I was simply proposing a possibility. Clearly, if it goes bad when you two are alone it can go bad with a counselor present. I just figure having someone who can be a resource in the moment might be better than trying to do it alone. To use a metaphor, your plane may still crash even with a mechanic on board working to solve the problem, but it was guaranteed to crash without one. Just a thought.

 

Also, 16 and 18 years ago! You guys have some history since that time to pull on. Of course, it will be fresh wounds to her. Still, you suspect a number of affairs, so your level of shock may be lower, unless she just drops some serious bombs on you. Perhaps she had a revenge affair in there because she knew about you and her sister. Who knows?. Seems to me, you guys need to be in MC anyway. May as well make the most of it. My final suggestion, get you a good MC, research them, then do your disclosures etc with them.

 

Thanks - I will research MC and seriously consider it. It'll be much easier for me because I've had time to prepare my mind - I've mentally braced myself for it. I think I can live with pretty much whatever I find out if it's all in that same timeframe all those years ago. But it might hit her hard if/when I tell her.

[BHsigh]

I've been reading posts on here on that subject. Opinions seem very polarised. I've heard people say it is selfish to tell, one is making oneself feel better by confessing at the expense of the other person's happiness; transferring the pain onto them. But of course if we each confess each other's sins, maybe we can both feel better.

 

Interestingly I note that two days ago I saw my problem as to how I was dealing with my wife's affair 18 years ago. But that seems to have changed - my problem now is how do I deal with my own affair 16 years ago.

 

Just a quick note on this, I think that if you read around, you'll notice that many more BS's would rather have a confession than having the WS keep it to themselves, I can only think of two on this forum, from the top of my head. So it's not so much that's it's polarized, just that there are some that are very vocal.

 

Personally, I think that it's a cop out to say that it's only for the WS to dump their guilt on their BS, I would much rather know and have a choice in the matter, and if she tried to lay everything at my feet, then she would be gone, I don't want anyone just settling for me like that, being second choice during the affair was bad enough, but at least make the WS prove that they really do want you.

 

Just try to think back to how you felt during her affair.

 

Now to be fair, it's been 16 years, and I assume that she has no idea at all that you had an affair, so at least she's not driving herself crazy, wondering what's going on with you. So I really don't know what's best in your situation, I would still default to honesty, personally.

Edited April 26, 2014 by BHsigh

[BetrayedH]

Thanks - I will research MC and seriously consider it. It'll be much easier for me because I've had time to prepare my mind - I've mentally braced myself for it. I think I can live with pretty much whatever I find out if it's all in that same timeframe all those years ago. But it might hit her hard if/when I tell her.

 

Speaking from some experience with MC, it doesn't always spur confessions, so to speak - my wife was still very closed off there. However, it does have a very positive impact on reducing or eliminating the big fights that might happen on your own. A good MC will teach you how to fight fair. It's pretty tough to completely fly off the handle, yell, swear, throw things and such when you've got a third party there mediating. It helps create a 'safe' place to have really difficult conversations. I'm a little on the fence about recommending you make your confession there, though, if/when you decide to do it. I tend to think you need to have the courage to face those consequences solo. Then see if she'll do MC with you. I think having done some individual counseling on your own in advance (and having a plan on an MC) might also go a long way towards showing you're earnest about fixing your marriage - and you could probably use it anyway. She's going to want to know that you working on yourself, much like you will probably expect from her.

[Davey L]

Speaking from some experience with MC, it doesn't always spur confessions, so to speak - my wife was still very closed off there. However, it does have a very positive impact on reducing or eliminating the big fights that might happen on your own. A good MC will teach you how to fight fair. It's pretty tough to completely fly off the handle, yell, swear, throw things and such when you've got a third party there mediating. It helps create a 'safe' place to have really difficult conversations. I'm a little on the fence about recommending you make your confession there, though, if/when you decide to do it. I tend to think you need to have the courage to face those consequences solo. Then see if she'll do MC with you. I think having done some individual counseling on your own in advance (and having a plan on an MC) might also go a long way towards showing you're earnest about fixing your marriage - and you could probably use it anyway. She's going to want to know that you working on yourself, much like you will probably expect from her.

 

 

I think my wife would not be keen on bringing an outsider into our personal "dirty laundry" session - she's private like that. So I think you are right - I'll research it and prepare, then if/when confession time comes, I'm ready to go do MC afterwards if she wants to. But I'll face the music on this one alone - to hide behind the skirts of MC would look a bit cowardly to her.

 

 

As I said before, I won't rush to blurt out the truth. Instead, if I feel she wants to do a bit of mutual confession, or if she brings it up somehow, then I will tell her; I won't actively lie to her anymore. I will try to get us to that point where I, and she, can tell all. It might not be this week, this month or even this year.

 

 

My wife is quite hot tempered and reacts very quickly and angrily, then after a while calms down. I'm the opposite, I am slow to anger and react, but let the resentment and anger drag on. I actually think I different personalities complement each other quite well most of the time. Normally in a difficult situation like that I let her vent her anger without doing anything to escalate, I'll absorb the anger, accusation and abuse, let her get it out of her and calm down, then only later respond and discuss further. And that would then be the point where I might suggest MC.

[fellini]

Interestingly I note that two days ago I saw my problem as to how I was dealing with my wife's affair 18 years ago. But that seems to have changed - my problem now is how do I deal with my own affair 16 years ago.

 

Actually, you were clear up front that you had no intentions to talk about it. The problem in here is not "how you deal with your own affair", it has become "should you tell or not".

 

Some points: (I am clearly one of BHSigh's "there are only 2".)

 

What there is, or is not, in here, is not "statistically relevant". If a WS has had an affair, finished with it (whether it's 2 hours ago or 20 years ago), decided to take it to the grave and has done some IC (not MC) or whatever to move on: What would be the motivation to come in here and spend all his time telling WS's NOT to disclose? Practically NONE.

 

Undisclosed Infidelities EXIST. In large numbers. In fact, your marriage is a perfect example of it. You have already stated that it has been much better post Affair. Post hers (disclosed) and yours a secret. Which of those two affairs are currently potentially the most devastating on your marriage today?

 

Yes there are a lot of people in here who put honesty over everything. Even it seems, over hurting others. (The illusion being that you have already "hurt them" you just haven't told them - a pretty existential notion of harm in my book). There is one poster in LS who has even gone so far as to use the "thought = deed" approach and told an OP she has CHEATED on her husband for even THINKING about her attraction to a co-worker. LS has everything.

 

But at the same time I think it is unfair to take my personal position about my individual case, and then say that "I am a BS who thinks that no one...". It's not acceptable to me that my 100+ posts can be reduced to a "polarized" position. It's the opposite, it's a nuanced position. Each case is different. Each affair is different. It always "depends". This is not true of several other posters here, and they will say that right and clear: There are no circumstances where disclosure is not the RIGHT thing to do. And still others, the only response possible for a BS is to leave. PERIOD. No if's but's or whens. Your S cheated. END OF STORY. And this view gets reposted in every single thread by a handful of people. WE even have a BS who feels so sure about what needs to be done in the area of infidelity that he posts the exact same post, every time. One POST fits ALL. And no one has challenged him on this practice.

 

Wow. Not a milimetre of slack in that. (And Im the "vocal" one?)

 

If you look at the strong "must tell" position, you will find that very few are as careful in their articulation as BHSigh: he speaks of HIS experience. I count him among the one or two vocal BSs who do not confuse advice with insistence. He will bend his position in light of circumstances.

 

What he does not do, is what many others do: tell you what YOU HAVE TO DO.

 

Spectre says this "The problem in itself boils down to the fact that another person has no right to decide what I may or may not be able to handle"

 

But I could say the same about his relation to you. He has NO RIGHT to decide for YOU what YOU (or your marriage) MAY OR MAY NOT HANDLE.

 

There is no fine line between advice and insistence.

 

IMHO the only reason that the problem has shifted from being about your wife's affair to your affair, is because BS's saw that you have not confessed and this seems to be the only issue that seems relevant to your story. How is it possible that others dictate what is REALLY YOUR problem? Because they can? Because they have an agenda? Because they do not have to live with the consequences of what YOU ultimately decide?

 

On taking advice, we have lots of advice:

The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.

 

The only thing to do with good advice is to pass it on. It is never of any use to oneself.

Oscar Wilde

 

You were clear about your position, you said what you had to say: I am not going to tell, but they do not respect that and will continue to push you to do what you already told us all here you you ARE NOT going to do. Had you asked "should I tell my wife"? Fair game.

 

Now why would a group of people try to push you to do something if later they will tell you that you and only you must take responsibility for your actions, and that no one ever makes people do anything? Why not focus on your problem as you posted it? Why not respect your wishes? Why have they made THIS your problem? This is not the first time, it has happened already three times in the last week. The most aggressive I remember is a woman who refused to leave her job. How many times did she have to say to the community "STOP TELLING ME WHAT I HAVE TO DO WITH MY JOB."

And they still came after her.

 

There is no fine line between advice and insistence.

 

So this is my last post in LS and I wish you well. I'm not interested in being valued/devalue because I belong to a statistic of 2. I prefer what I say to be more relevant than how many supporters I have gathered along the way. This is not a competition to see who can say it louder. I do not tell other people what their decision HAS to be or what the ONLY ACCEPTABLE DECISION is. I explore the issues deeply. If that makes me "more vocal" so be it. There are better forums if that is what it comes down to.

 

If my wife had had sex with any of my brothers, dead or alive. I would divorce her in a second. A SECOND. I would be so disgusted I would never look her in the face ever again even with child sharing I would keep my eyes off of her. If it happened 18 years ago it's the same. Actually it's worse. Our marriage was even better then and it would be more devastating to imagine her cheating on such a good moment of our relationship.

 

If my brother died, and I had no way to speak to my own blood about the truth, it would be worse.

 

If my brother had worked in 3rd world countries, in poverty, probably doing the most ALTRUISTIC work that even I won't give up my middle class life to pursue, EVEN WORSE.

 

Your marriage will more than likely END over revealing this dark secret, but that's okay for some people here, because when it does these same people will tell you now you have a chance for a fresh start with honesty.

 

It does not matter to some people here that these INFIDELITIES are LONG LONG OVER. All that matters is that you did not follow the rule of one: TELL.

 

And ask yourself really if at this stage of the game it's not just fair, if it's morally right to destroy the lives of so many people in the hopes that a joint confession will bring you "information" about an infidelity you ALREADY KNOW ABOUT.

 

People will tell you that only you have the responsibility for the things you do. Well here is a time when they are dead wrong. If you tell your wife, her emotional reaction, in your own words, might be so immediate and strong that whe will draw her entire living family into her grief. So, being the vocal of 2, I say, this will be on your head, not hers. (They will come in here and tell you that you cannot control her response, so you don't own that.... but the fact is you do.) For some you don't have the right to decide or not if the entire family live through a life of hell about a dead beloved family member? WoW.

Never did the cliche "Let sleeping dogs lie" have so much meaning.

 

I didn't read the link about not to tell, I suggest you read Mira Kirshenbaum regardless. She is in amazon.com. Or just google her Time interview on handling infidelity.

 

My wife already confessed her entire infidelity. You know, if 18 years from now she confesses that it wasn't 10 times they had sex, it was 12. I better not care about that level of detail, because if I do, I didn't fix myself properly the first time. Truth, details. These things are all relative. Life, happiness, moving forward, these are equally relative. The only question is whether you want to live in the future with the past you have, or drudge up the past and destroy your present, and future with it. It's your life man. Good luck with that decision.I hope you find peace in this life, and the happiness you seek for yourself, not necessarily the disclosure others seek for you.

Edited April 26, 2014 by fellini

[Zenstudent]

There was something I found interesting in Fellinis post. I usually don't agree with him, but the sentence about indifference when the advice has been passed on, was worth considering. ATM I feel ambivalence, because I usually feel, that I care for the people I choose to offer my opinion. But OTOH, I acknowledge the difference between passing advice and insisting. I'll have that in mind, thanks Fellini.

 

OP, I won't tell you what to do, I think it's a very difficult situation. But I have a few comments/thoughts to consider regarding the telling versus not telling.

 

1. Your path depends a lot on who you aim to be. If want to live an honest and authentical life, you need to be honest and pursue the truth whenever possible. No ifs, buts and it depends on - the truth.

If this isn't someone you wanna be, you may consider not having this conversation with your wife.

 

2. There will be limits on the level of intimacy you can have as a couple as long as you hide things, lie and pretend to be someone that you're not. The love you have for each other will be aimed at projected images of who you each pretend to be. I know this feeling and I don't like it myself.

I actually liked the projection of my wife, D-day changed my feelings for her into something quite different - but more true.

Today I hate the projection, it was a fatamorgana that deceived me, made me take a path I might not have taken, had I known the truth. But at least today I get to work with real world, the true (or more true) version of my wife.

 

3. I'm in the camp that totally hates when other people think they should make decisions un my behalf, "because I can't handle the situation and the truth". I know it's just a continuation of the selfish thought proces and decisions during the affair, but it's arrogant and condescending. I think my wife got that message at last.

 

4. It's very common to believe that "What you don't know, won't hurt you." I'm often tempted to think this myself, but is it true? Could it in fact be rewritten to "It hurts you, but you don't know what it is?"

You feel this tickling, sometimes a small pain in your back, you try to scratch it, but you can't find the exact spot, maybe your hands can't reach the spot. But if only you had a mirror, you would easily be able to see the large knife in your back that someone stabbed you with.

The fact is, that untill the truth is out in the open, you will both behave different, always carefull not to mention certain issues. "What was it the story was again? How did I cover it up at the time - I must be consistant in my story". The forum is split on whether this is healthy or not. You decide for yourself.

 

5. Sometimes the truth hurts, and so does life. But it's easier to work with the truth. It's easier to fight an enemy you can see, and it's easier to bond with someone you know. And you'll grow from the experience.

 

6. I remember reading a story (a tale?) once, it was about a man who was found at a cheap hotel, naked and handcuffed in the bed, dead from a stroke. I don't remember who said it, but it was something along with "Don't ever go anywhere where you wouldn't wish your spouse to find you dead."

If you don't want anyone to know you as a cheat, well, don't cheat. I think it's more safe to not be unfaithfull in the first place, than it is to try to cover it up with more lies.

 

I agree with Fellini that uncompromising honesty is somewhat a very existencial world wiew. Some like it this way, and some don't. It's just the way it is. Personally, I try to surround myself with honest people - I can't open up and be vulnerable to someone I don't know and who refuse to let me see who they really are. But that's me.

 

All that said; I totally get the dilemma and I'm glad that I'm not in your shoes. I wish you all the best in choosing what's right for you.

[BHsigh]

OP, I speak from my own experience, I had to catch my wife, I had to force her to confess everything, she fought tooth and nail against admitting anything, and we are still reconciling. I would have preferred a confession, it would have made things much easier.

 

We also bring up confession because obviously things are not going well, otherwise you wouldn't be here. Secrets can be a stain, a tear in your relationship, and can and do have effects on your own happiness. That is why we say that confession will help, not because someone has a conspiracy theory about us BS's having an agenda and just want to watch you burn. That's ridiculous, I want nothing more than to see everyone on here get the help that they need, and make it through their problems and find happiness.

Edited April 26, 2014 by BHsigh

[Davey L]

Fellini, you make your point very well and it is a good one.

 

 

I am in no rush to tell all - it's been 16 years so waiting a few months is not a big deal. I will think it over carefully before I do anything.

[Davey L]

Fellini here is your problem: You have taken this "everyone makes mistakes" logic to new heights. Yes, there should be NO SLACK FOR CHEATING. This doesn't mean there should be no slack for anything in life that results in you hurting someones feelings, but cheating? Sorry, it is such a selfish and destructive action..one that the cheater KNOWS will cause more harm then good So this is one of the rare things in life where I feel you have to say: no, I get it, we are all human..but certain acts are worse then others. That is why I get fined for littering and thrown in jail for rape. Both are crimes, but of different magnitudes.

 

Not to suggest cheating is a crime, but it's one of those things where there is just not ONE single excuse that makes it okay. There is no scenario that makes it plausible or that makes it the best solution to a problem. People need to held accountable for their actions, and while perfection can't be expected, common decency can and SHOULD be expected. If you can't give a partner you claim to love something so simple, how on earth can you be expected to interact with other human beings whom you do not love?

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but just..no. No. The fact that is has been 16 years doesn't mean wait a few more months. The fact that it has been so long just reinforces the need for IMMEDIATE truth. How does one look at this and say "okay, horrible betrayal for nearly 2 decades, a few more months wouldn't hurt!". Of course it does. Cheating is not like a fine wine, it ain't getting better with age. If you are going to tell her then man up and tell her..or don't. Don't sit and dwell, because that in itself shows an utter lack of respect. You've had 16 years, you have waited more then long enough. There is a deeper issue if you feel the opposite of that, which is EXACTLY what your above statement implies. So if you aren't going to tell her now..then you just probably aren't going to ever end up doing it, so why pretend otherwise? Makes no sense.

 

 

What I mean is, I need to be pretty sure I am doing the right thing by telling her. To weigh up the rights and wrongs of telling her, making sure I am certain, is better than just blurting it out right now - once the words are said I can never take them back. We're not in a situation where there is an urgent and pressing need to confess immediately. However, I will not actively lie any more, starting right now. If she were to ask me this minute to tell her if I had had an affair, then I would tell her. Unlikely, since she's out of town at the moment so I've got a few days before anything at all is likely to happen.

 

 

Things are not too bad between us, on the whole we are OK and over the last couple of months I have really felt an improvement and feel much closer to my wife that at any time over the previous two years. I came on here because I was, until the last couple of months, getting upset over the state of our marriage and the lack of affection, and that made me start thinking about stuff that had long been buried. Mainly it was her affairs that were bothering me, since I know there's a huge amount of stuff she had never said or admitted to. Discussion on here has somehow cleared my head on that, I'm no longer bothered about her affairs and can accept that they happened a long time ago when we were different people and perhaps I was not a very good husband to her. Instead, the discussion here has made me realise that perhaps the "elephant in the room" I need to deal with is my own infidelity. There's been a lot of good advice, both for and against confessing, and I think I know what the right thing to do is, but I'm not the sort to rush out and do what someone has told me to do until I have got all my thoughts in order. I'm not letting anyone else (no matter how sensible their advice may appear to be) make my decision for me.

[BHsigh]

What I mean is, I need to be pretty sure I am doing the right thing by telling her. To weigh up the rights and wrongs of telling her, making sure I am certain, is better than just blurting it out right now - once the words are said I can never take them back. We're not in a situation where there is an urgent and pressing need to confess immediately. However, I will not actively lie any more, starting right now. If she were to ask me this minute to tell her if I had had an affair, then I would tell her. Unlikely, since she's out of town at the moment so I've got a few days before anything at all is likely to happen.

 

 

Things are not too bad between us, on the whole we are OK and over the last couple of months I have really felt an improvement and feel much closer to my wife that at any time over the previous two years. I came on here because I was, until the last couple of months, getting upset over the state of our marriage and the lack of affection, and that made me start thinking about stuff that had long been buried. Mainly it was her affairs that were bothering me, since I know there's a huge amount of stuff she had never said or admitted to. Discussion on here has somehow cleared my head on that, I'm no longer bothered about her affairs and can accept that they happened a long time ago when we were different people and perhaps I was not a very good husband to her. Instead, the discussion here has made me realise that perhaps the "elephant in the room" I need to deal with is my own infidelity. There's been a lot of good advice, both for and against confessing, and I think I know what the right thing to do is, but I'm not the sort to rush out and do what someone has told me to do until I have got all my thoughts in order. I'm not letting anyone else (no matter how sensible their advice may appear to be) make my decision for me.

 

Davey,

 

I do agree with spectre's sentiment, but I do think that your choice to wait a little while is a good one. It's been such a long time and there has been infidelity from both of you. Take some time to think thing over.

 

Just keep in mind how you have felt about not knowing everything, and consider that when deciding whether to confess or not.

 

Also keep in mind that the argument against confessing, particularly the illusion that confessing is what causes the pain, basically boils down to "do what you want, just don't get caught."

[Davey L]

There are no real "wrongs" of telling her unless you feel your wife is so emotionally unstable she will actually physically harm herself or others if you tell her this. That is the only valid reason to wait, but it is a reason that suggests much bigger problems then you have now.

 

 

 

Don't think there's a risk like that. Well she might harm me but I'm happy to take that risk to have this cleared up, I value my marriage now as much as I value my life.

 

 

I just need to decide if you are right or wrong in your advice, that is all. I will think it over for a while - that won't do any harm - it's easier to say something that hasn't been said, than it is to unsay something that has been said.

[harrybrown]

Good luck with your situation whatever you decide to do.

 

I do not know if I read your posts correctly, but I thought you said you think she had 3 affairs, but only one that she mentioned.

 

She could have changed, she could still be having an affair on the road right now. You can not control what others do, or how she may respond if you do tell.

 

I would have a hard time with three affairs. I do wish you well with your decison and your future.