Is WS "Fog" just gas-lighting to keep A going?

[drifter777]

I'm interested in knowing what BS's and WS's really feel about this. I believe the fog is a handy excuse for a WS to excuse their inability to end the affair or keep NC with the AP. It's really the BS who is in a foggy state of shock on d-day, making it more likely that they make quick, rash decisions that they may regret.

 

My opinion is not unique - there are a number of researchers and counselors who support my view and many who don't. What about you?

[notserene]

I tend to agree with this.

 

The idea of a spouse that would keep me hanging while "deciding" makes me very angry. If my H had been like that, he could have spent his time "deciding" while sleeping on his sister's pull out couch.

 

The sensation that I as a BS felt is more like "affair shock" - I had evidence that there was something going on, and I thought I was prepared, but hearing that it was true was a whole different ball game.

 

I consider myself lucky that my H ended it quickly and decisively. Now we have to work on the damage.

[Maiq]

If my WS called it "fog" and that was her reason for continuing contact/etc, I'd call that an excuse.

 

In my case, she didn't see it as fog - she just didn't want to lose her friendship with OM. But because she wants to reconcile with me, she agreed to NC with him, and a month later, she's already feeling a lot better about NC and I'd say she's pretty well clear of the "fog" she was in.

[sidney2718]

I'm interested in knowing what BS's and WS's really feel about this. I believe the fog is a handy excuse for a WS to excuse their inability to end the affair or keep NC with the AP. It's really the BS who is in a foggy state of shock on d-day, making it more likely that they make quick, rash decisions that they may regret.

 

My opinion is not unique - there are a number of researchers and counselors who support my view and many who don't. What about you?

 

I think it is called a "fog" because the WS does not seem to understand what the effect of the affair is on the rest of the spouse's family -- especially the BS. The conventional wisdom is that reality has to settle in on the affair couple before anything meaningful can happen.

 

Look at it this way: if the WS wanted the affair partner, period, then they'd have asked for a divorce earlier on. But in the cases we often see here that isn't the case. That means that we have a conflicted WS, often called a "cake eater", a term I think is a bit excessive since I think that the WS is often in real conflict about what they want.

 

Affairs are nice. They often involve both emotional and physical pleasure, they involve an escape from everyday humdrum problems, and they are private with the BS (because they don't know) unable to butt in and spoil things.

 

Then comes D-day and often the fog settles. Some WS's know right away that they want to save their marriage and are genuinely remorseful and sorry right off. A few others choose the affair partner and start talking about divorce. But many are lost in the fog and don't want to give up the wonderful dream where everything was beautiful.

 

Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

[atreides]

FOG originally to my understanding and the first place i heard it was from a WS. This was their analysis of how they behaved post D-Day having hindsight and only after working out the why's, how's and etc much later.

 

FOG is very real, but I would say, that we have to be careful in dismissing it, whether it be a BS or WS. Having an affair is an addiction in most cases, there are examples where it is not, but any WS reading this and thinks they fit in that category... think again. Mostly likely i would not agree.

There are those WS, such as on the OM/OW forum that call it "love" yet the contradiction is that love is what endures, what asks or accepts forgiveness depending on the role in the fallout of an A for example and not the easy road. Many WS will say, "well it was for years, that certainly the chemicals lifted off." Then at the same time we see many other forms of addictions that will also go the distance unchecked and much longer.

To really say that it is love, the A would have to endure the whole of life, the little annoying things as well, the routines and all of it, or you are left with just the thrill ride of the A... and sadly the WS defines it as love. Moreover, the use of the word love for that is far more insulting, however many WS see it as making whatever they had more genuine. However, A's are as genuine as any other reality in life, but that does not make it right, nor "love" nor an excuse.

 

So this is the context, at least for the question asked in using "FOG" as an excuse. The reality is the WS wont know what fog is until they have "withdrawn" from the A and worked out the why's and how's, when they look back and say "just how stupid i was" to paraphrase many whom have recovered from an A and are better for it. To the OP, no addiction has an excuse but yet the battle to recover from it for many is the most difficult challenge of their life, IE why so many former BS advocate telling the AP's spouse as to "cut off the drug source" for example to aid the WS in recovery. As with many whom have faced that challenge to "stop the addiction" any excuse will be used but it does not make their intention to "quit" an less but if left to their own recognizance, many will fail to satisfy the context of the OP's question.

Edited April 21, 2014 by atreides

[gettingstronger]

I agree on the BS fog on dday-its so surreal that my reactions became almost reflex-I know I was not thinking clearly and I do regret a few of my actions on that day- however, I am not unhappy that I decided on reconciliation but I totally see how some could be-its a long hard road and I have paid a high price for the love I have for my husband-

[violet1]

I believe the fog is very real. I compare it to the fog that drug addicts experience. I don't believe every WS goes through it. Serial cheaters and those in exit affairs don't really go through it IMO.

 

For me personally, I knew I was in some kind of fog from the beginning. The first time I had sex with the exMM, I felt empowered. It really was weird. I had never experienced anything like it. Realistically I knew it was wrong and not worth the risk, but I got so caught up in the excitement, secrecy, etc. I tried to end my A before my D Day, but I was addicted to the attention and the rush. I literally felt withdrawals when I went NC. I had never been a risk taker before the A. I never lied, I always followed the rules. When my A started something changed in me. I really don't know how to explain it. In my case, I definitely felt like I was addicted. After my D Day, I honestly never intended to break NC. I never even told my H I was in a fog. All I said was something is not right with me and it's true. Unfortunately, I let the addiction get the best of me and I broke NC after two months. No, I didn't do it to gaslight my H. I was selfish and wanted a fix.

[Dark Holy]

I personally believe there is no fog. People delude themselves but to call that a fog is to tether responsibility to a phenomenon that originated elsewhere. And it didn't originate elsewhere- it is not foreign. The person conjured it themselves. It is from that person, not something that happens upon the person.

 

It's much better, I think, to call it what it really is- narcissism.

[violet1]

Here's an interesting little article on affairs and addiction. I think it correlates a little bit to the fog. I'm sure there are people who will believe it's hog wash, but I think it's interesting nonetheless.

The Neuroscience of Infidelity: ?Flame Addiction? | Brain World

[Appreciate]

I think it's hard to separate the brain activity from self which is experiencing it.

 

When we drink or take drugs we know we are adding a foreign substance to our body and we have certain expectations about what we should feel and know that it is due to the substance. If you've ever taken very powerful drugs (I have) it is sometimes hard to separate the experience from yourself when you are in the middle of it. Psychedelics are a breed unto their own, and are not normally addictive. The transformative elements are quite powerful, and we adopt those experiences into who we are. It changes us in a way, because the doors of perception are opened.

 

They say the brain in an affair is like someone on cocaine. To an extent, I can't imagine it is exactly the same. I've dabbled with cocaine when I was younger and can testify that it is very empowering and very addictive. You can feel it's power and sometimes you don't care. You just want more, the drug becomes like a good friend who likes to party. Many people can't and shouldn't take it recreationally. I would never take it again. I stopped recreational drug use a long time ago and have never regretted that. Nor do I regret taking them.

 

Regardless, the pain of withdrawal must be extremely difficult. Most people are simply not that strong. And when the reference point is another person, they become a free resource. Since we are human and our thinking and personalities are very complex, we often develop strong emotional attachments, thus complicating the issue. The great feelings are associated with the person, when in reality there could have been many people who could have provided those feelings or similar feelings. Is it the person or the feelings? It must be hard for the WS to figure this out, and to wonder why they are losing feelings for their BS. I'm sure on some level they really just wanted those feelings with their BS, and that is what makes this all very tragic.

 

However, as a BS, I can only extend my sympathy and understanding so far. There's still the issue of making the right choice, of being stronger than the temptation, and not letting yourself get lost in it. You know at any time you could tell your partner everything and beg for forgiveness, but the fear and the fix prevent you from doing that. In that instance, it really comes down to your integrity as a person. Many otherwise "good" people are not able to come clean, the spell is that strong. It's one thing if people show remorse - I admire the WS who can do that and meditate on the path they chose. Perhaps the remorseless come out of the fog only when the consequences are severe enough. Even then, the withdrawal symptoms must be hard. And what BS wants to help their WS through that? It's a hit on the pride, and somewhat infuriating. At that point, the WS has to step up, get a grip and think of the A as an addiction. The model is a good one, I think, but many WS will not accept it because it interferes with their conception of love. And they may just be too full of pride to accept that they failed in some respect. But the addiction model provides a pathway to healing, and ultimately that's what it's all about. Returning to some sanity in the world.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Appreciate

[janedoe67]

The fog is a concept tied to a product. It's marketing. I think it is a illusion, but it is an illusion perpetrated more by a product than a WS. Not only can a WS use it to delude the BS, the BS can use it to delude themselves.

[anne1707]

The fog is a concept tied to a product. It's marketing. I think it is a illusion, but it is an illusion perpetrated more by a product than a WS. Not only can a WS use it to delude the BS, the BS can use it to delude themselves.

 

I actually think the fog allows the WS to delude themselves. It is in some ways the way the WS no longer can see clearly how totally f*cked up they are, how irrationally and selfishly they are behaving and how damaging their behaviours are.

[MuddyFootprints]

Call it a fog, call it delusional, my head was so far up my ass I was dining on my own sh*t. I lost touch with reality truly believing I was completely rational.

[snappytomcat]

I never hear of this so called fog,until we went for our first mc session,and my xws husband said the only way he could explain his mind set during the a,was like he was in some fog

[Friskyone4u]

I thing the fog is just a term thatWS uses to mentally hold on to the excitement of their illicit affair for however long it can last. It also is just an excuse not to face the reality.

I know I am generalizing so I apologize in advance, but I think more women stay in the fog or use it because affairs with sex usually start and continue on a more emotional level with women. Us men, due to our inability to control our appendage below our waist, I think in more cases can accept, "oh well, no more sex, I guess it's over". I think the differences in our brains between the sexes leave women more susceptible to holding on. Also, it might be my imagination, but when I read these posts about not being able to forget or put aside the feelings for AP, most seem to be written by women.

Men are just as apt to break N C but I think that is mostly because we are wanting to have the sex part start up again.

[janedoe67]

I thing the fog is just a term thatWS uses to mentally hold on to the excitement of their illicit affair for however long it can last. It also is just an excuse not to face the reality.

I know I am generalizing so I apologize in advance, but I think more women stay in the fog or use it because affairs with sex usually start and continue on a more emotional level with women. Us men, due to our inability to control our appendage below our waist, I think in more cases can accept, "oh well, no more sex, I guess it's over". I think the differences in our brains between the sexes leave women more susceptible to holding on. Also, it might be my imagination, but when I read these posts about not being able to forget or put aside the feelings for AP, most seem to be written by women.

Men are just as apt to break N C but I think that is mostly because we are wanting to have the sex part start up again.

Thank you for playing but....wrong

 

Any "fog" is just those chemicals we allow to blind us to what we cannot possibly face and continue the A. But it's just a mirage. Any WS with a brain KNOWS somewhere in there that the A is wrong. And stating that they felt like they were in a fog may just be an attempt to express the feeling, not necessarily a dodge. I lied to myself, yes. I shoved down guilt, yes. But it wasn't a fog. It was just lies.

 

And I have zero trouble accepting that my A is 100% on me.

 

If a WS posted as if they knew exactly what WS thought and felt, there would be great amounts of ire. Like it or not, no one who has not been a BS can really understand how you lie to yourself and twist into some valueless pretzel for some illusion.

Edited April 23, 2014 by janedoe67

[MuddyFootprints]

how you lie to yourself and twist into some valueless pretzel for some illusion.

 

I got a little lost with the ws/bs labels in your post, but I completely identify with this.

[janedoe67]

I got a little lost with the ws/bs labels in your post, but I completely identify with this.

 

Yeah I had to fix that.

 

It's sad that I would have worked that hard to shed what made me a person of character. What was I thinking???

[Realist3]

Call it a fog, call it delusional, my head was so far up my ass I was dining on my own sh*t. I lost touch with reality truly believing I was completely rational.

 

 

I think this most accurately describes the term fog in this instance.

 

I have never heard of using the affair fog as an excuse of any sort post d-day to continue communication. BS's are in shock, plain and simple, not a fog.

 

In my view, the fog is a description of the emotions that cloud the judgement of the WS during the affair. They can't see clearly. It is not a purposeful decision. "Hey, I think I will enter the fog." When you are in an affair you are rationalizing a hundred different things. Most importantly a WS is rationalizing why they are doing it in the first place. They make that rationalization, and then receive validation in return. This creates a vicious cycle that extends far beyond the initial rationalization for the A. The WS is existing in two parallel worlds that they have placed themselves within. Even though both exist in reality, the A is more of a fantasy.

 

People experience it differently. For me personally, I was definitely in the fog for about a year and a half. I can't put my finger on any one particular thing or event that brought me out, but it was like "wow".

[Hardgrind]

I think there is something like fog for both the BS and the WS. In our case I, the BS, was giving my WW the benefit of the doubt for several months even though at some level I was certain that the A was underway. It was the worst four months of my life and I was beginning to doubt my sanity. I was actually relieved when I obtained proof of the PA. That brought sudden clarity for me.

 

In the case of my WS, there have been three stages.

 

During the A, she managed to convince herself that I would never discover the A, even though she not trying very hard to hide it. At that stage she was going through some pretty wild logical contortions to avoid directly telling me any lies in response to my questions and concerns.

 

D-day brought sudden but short lived clarity. She immediately gained clarity on what she wanted (to stay with me) and answered all my questions honestly (to the best of my knowledge.)

 

However within a couple days after D-Day a new fog rolled in. There was definitely an addictive quality to the A. She decided that she really wanted to remain as friends with the AP and didn't see why that should be a problem . Both my gut and posts on LS by OW/OM's make it pretty clear that this is simply a pathway for the A to reignite so I am having none of it, which is causing some friction between us. She is currently in LC with him and is finding it very difficult to end all contact. She knows I want NC but if I outright demand it, the forbidden becomes more enticing. So I have dumped it back on her. She knows what I want, she needs to make her decisions and I will make my decisions. Now the question is which will end first: her current fog or my patience.

[compulsivedancer]

For some, the fog may be a form of gaslighting, as certainly it provides a handy explanation (or lack of explanation) that a WS could hide behind. However, I don't think it really serves any purpose in continuing or re-starting an affair.

 

The nature of the fog is that you become aware of it when you leave it. While you are in it, you get used to the haze and can't see outside of it. If you're coherent enough to admit to a fog, you aren't really in it anymore.

 

I do see Hardgrind's point, that clarity comes and goes after an affair. But I think the fog is when you look back at your actions and don't recognize yourself - when it's a challenge to understand what allowed you to act that way.

[drifter777]

I think there is something like fog for both the BS and the WS. In our case I, the BS, was giving my WW the benefit of the doubt for several months even though at some level I was certain that the A was underway. It was the worst four months of my life and I was beginning to doubt my sanity. I was actually relieved when I obtained proof of the PA. That brought sudden clarity for me.

 

In the case of my WS, there have been three stages.

 

During the A, she managed to convince herself that I would never discover the A, even though she not trying very hard to hide it. At that stage she was going through some pretty wild logical contortions to avoid directly telling me any lies in response to my questions and concerns.

 

D-day brought sudden but short lived clarity. She immediately gained clarity on what she wanted (to stay with me) and answered all my questions honestly (to the best of my knowledge.)

 

However within a couple days after D-Day a new fog rolled in. There was definitely an addictive quality to the A. She decided that she really wanted to remain as friends with the AP and didn't see why that should be a problem . Both my gut and posts on LS by OW/OM's make it pretty clear that this is simply a pathway for the A to reignite so I am having none of it, which is causing some friction between us. She is currently in LC with him and is finding it very difficult to end all contact. She knows I want NC but if I outright demand it, the forbidden becomes more enticing. So I have dumped it back on her. She knows what I want, she needs to make her decisions and I will make my decisions. Now the question is which will end first: her current fog or my patience.

Can I thread-jack my own thread?

 

So your "LC" means "little contact"? And she finds it difficult to end all contact? All she has done is taken her affair deeper underground and is using the "LC" thing to cover her tracks.

 

If your wife wanted stay with you, like you say, she would understand that it's NC or nothing. If she won't do that then kick her out or leave yourself and call a lawyer. Maybe that will snap her out of her "fog" and, if it doesn't, you are on your way to a new life. You cannot reconcile while she is still in contact with him.

[Owl]

I actually think the fog allows the WS to delude themselves. It is in some ways the way the WS no longer can see clearly how totally f*cked up they are, how irrationally and selfishly they are behaving and how damaging their behaviours are.

 

I think this is close.

 

I think that fog is the ACT of a WS deluding themselves.

 

Fog simply refers to the broken thought processees that most WS's seem to display while in an affair.

 

Not all WS's are "foggy". Some are quite rational when they carry on their affair...and some are quite deluded. Most are somewhere between those two states.

 

"Fog" isn't an 'excuse', isn't something that mystically/magically alleviates the WS of their responsibility for their choices...it's simply an acknowledgement of the fact that they probably never gave much thought to that responsibility when they were MAKING those choices.

 

It's not a defense that they can rely on to avoid facing the reality of their actions...it's simply realizing that they probably weren't grounded in reality while they were doing what they were doing.

 

Using the term "fog" isn't instant forgiveness, a "get out of jail free" card, or a way for someone to say "there, there...it's ok...you didn't do anything wrong".

 

I'm not even sure where that misconception (continually) comes from.

[sidney2718]

If a WS posted as if they knew exactly what WS thought and felt, there would be great amounts of ire. Like it or not, no one who has not been a BS can really understand how you lie to yourself and twist into some valueless pretzel for some illusion.

 

I'm still confused. Should not the last "BS" be "WS"? If so, I totally agree with you. If not, I'm lost in the fog.

[janedoe67]

I'm still confused. Should not the last "BS" be "WS"? If so, I totally agree with you. If not, I'm lost in the fog.

 

Yes, you're right.

 

It's just interesting how many times I have been told I cannot possibly know or understand how a BS thinks or feels, and yet countless BS's are 100% they know exactly how "every" WS thinks or feels.

 

The reason I don't like the fog idea is because it feels like a crutch. It's the same reason I don't like the addiction analogy. There is an element of "I can't help it." And a cheater CAN help it. They are not in some psychotic state. They KNOW what they are doing.