M30USA Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) This is a short and sweet clip by a man who I call the modern day John the Baptist. Comments? Thumbs up? Thumbs down? Edited April 21, 2014 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Definitely a thumbs up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 lol! "What...God loves me?! I love me!!!!" That's funny. Why is he the modern day John the Baptist for you? He's way too clean cut for that! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 lol! "What...God loves me?! I love me!!!!" That's funny. Why is he the modern day John the Baptist for you? He's way too clean cut for that! He does have a beard in most of his other videos. Not sure if he was just younger in that one? I think he's a John the Baptist because the way he presents the Gospel completely disregards societal expectations. Some people would say this is bad and that we need to "relate" to our society so we can "reach" them. But Paul Washer has said that the world needs Christianity not because it's like them, but because it's NOT like them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 M30USA, But Paul Washer has said that the world needs Christianity not because it's like them, but because it's NOT like them. I agree totally. For years the liberal wing of the Church in UK has been altering and diluting the Gospel Message to make the Church, "more in line with modern times", more "socially acceptable", more "acceptable". Many of the teachings of Jesus are counter-cultural. That, to me, is one of the reasons to go to Church, to hear something different. If we wanted to hear the same 'ole stuff we hear in the secular world there wouldn't be much point going. We could have a lie-in on a Sunday and just read the papers ! Today, Traditional Liturgy has the advantage of fulfilling Paul’s instructions to the Romans: “Be not conformed to the image of this world” (Rom. 12:1). 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) M30USA, I agree totally. For years the liberal wing of the Church in UK has been altering and diluting the Gospel Message to make the Church, "more in line with modern times", more "socially acceptable", more "acceptable". Many of the teachings of Jesus are counter-cultural. That, to me, is one of the reasons to go to Church, to hear something different. If we wanted to hear the same 'ole stuff we hear in the secular world there wouldn't be much point going. We could have a lie-in on a Sunday and just read the papers ! Today, Traditional Liturgy has the advantage of fulfilling Paul’s instructions to the Romans: “Be not conformed to the image of this world” (Rom. 12:1). I didn't know what's been going on in the UK. Thanks for the update. I truly believe there is more hope for an atheist who has never heard the Gospel than for a churchgoer who has been fed half-truths and religious lies his entire life. At least the atheist will be able to hear the Gospel freshly; but when the churchgoer hears the TRUE Gospel, he will say, "That's not true! That's not MY God!" (I've literally had Christians tell me this in response to me simply sharing what Christ himself has said.) Edited April 21, 2014 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 He does have a beard in most of his other videos. Not sure if he was just younger in that one? I think he's a John the Baptist because the way he presents the Gospel completely disregards societal expectations. Some people would say this is bad and that we need to "relate" to our society so we can "reach" them. But Paul Washer has said that the world needs Christianity not because it's like them, but because it's NOT like them. IMO relating to people is not a bad thing, although twisting the Word to do that is a bad thing. This short clip you provided M30 says it all. The god of self conforms to "my" chosen lifestyle and "he" will bless me enhancing that. This eliminates sin and causes "self" to be the judge of what sin is or isn't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 M30USA, I agree totally. For years the liberal wing of the Church in UK has been altering and diluting the Gospel Message to make the Church, "more in line with modern times", more "socially acceptable", more "acceptable". Many of the teachings of Jesus are counter-cultural. That, to me, is one of the reasons to go to Church, to hear something different. If we wanted to hear the same 'ole stuff we hear in the secular world there wouldn't be much point going. We could have a lie-in on a Sunday and just read the papers ! Today, Traditional Liturgy has the advantage of fulfilling Paul’s instructions to the Romans: “Be not conformed to the image of this world” (Rom. 12:1). You know AW, I didn't understand what was going on here (US) until I did get involved politically. The political liberal community is not much different than most churches. They could be one in the same. M30 had in the past brought similar, mostly church related issues to light. So with a bit of political knowledge and watching teachings that took place during the last Presidential elections, I started to check this out and was shocked. They gave the same message, just different wording. The churches used to promote (which I know some disagree with this) the political candidate that followed Biblical principals. During this last liberal run the church was dead silent. I think there was a handful (I can only think of one large "mega church") that did speak out. This brings me to the prosperity teaching. It falls completely in line with liberal political views of "income equality" or "transference of wealth". I'm still in the process of understanding this rather quick shift (here in the US) and do understand that this has taken place throughout history. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 This is a short and sweet clip by a man who I call the modern day John the Baptist. Comments? Thumbs up? Thumbs down? What do you think about this guy? "Paul Washer exposed by fundamental baptist Pastor as a lying heretic straight from hell. Paul Washer is a liar, a deceiver and a false prophet with an agenda to teach as many people as he possibly can, that they can't be allowed into Heaven, unless there are ongoing works in their life. In sharp contrast the Bible says in Romans 4:5-6:" Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) What do you think about this guy? "Paul Washer exposed by fundamental baptist Pastor as a lying heretic straight from hell. Paul Washer is a liar, a deceiver and a false prophet with an agenda to teach as many people as he possibly can, that they can't be allowed into Heaven, unless there are ongoing works in their life. In sharp contrast the Bible says in Romans 4:5-6:" Paul Washer doesn't have a works-based message, as that pastor claims. All that Washer says--in agreement with Christ--is that God requires repentance and that lack of fruit is a SIGN of not having the Holy Spirit and therefore not true conversion. I suppose that baptist preacher would also call John the Baptist a false prophet too: "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" Or maybe he would say that Paul was a false prophet when Paul said that fornicators, liars, and lovers of money will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Washer has always said that salvation is through grace alone. He doesn't judge people for their sin, but rather for their lack of true conversion by the Holy Spirit which ALONE can produce salvation. Jesus said the tree which does not produce fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire. Notice this is NOT a works-based statement, otherwise he would contradict himself. It's a statement about a tree which doesn't have true conversion. The works merely come from God, not man. But they are a SIGN. Edited April 21, 2014 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Paul Washer doesn't have a works-based message, as that pastor claims. All that Washer says--in agreement with Christ--is that God requires repentance and that lack of fruit is a SIGN of not having the Holy Spirit and therefore not true conversion. I suppose that baptist preacher would also call John the Baptist a false prophet too: "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" Or maybe he would say that Paul was a false prophet when Paul said that fornicators, liars, and lovers of money will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Washer has always said that salvation is through grace alone. He doesn't judge people for their sin, but rather for their lack of true conversion by the Holy Spirit which ALONE can produce salvation. Jesus said the tree which does not produce fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire. Notice this is NOT a works-based statement, otherwise he would contradict himself. It's a statement about a tree which doesn't have true conversion. The works merely come from God, not man. But they are a SIGN. Okay, I am just leery of any pastor that has to mock people to get his point across...just me. Including the guy I posted...I think there are better ways to correct doctrine than for a pastor to mock the beliefs of others. I don't agree this man is like John the Baptist. John was essentially an OT prophet akin to Isaiah. That ministry ceased after Christ. Yes? I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. Anyway, I'm glad you found a preacher you like. Not my style, but have at it bro 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 What do you think about this guy? "Paul Washer exposed by fundamental baptist Pastor as a lying heretic straight from hell. Paul Washer is a liar, a deceiver and a false prophet with an agenda to teach as many people as he possibly can, that they can't be allowed into Heaven, unless there are ongoing works in their life. In sharp contrast the Bible says in Romans 4:5-6:" That seemed really harsh, given the Baptist Pastor said he'd only ever listened to 10 minutes of Washer's messages. Honestly, I don't know anything about Washer, and even less about the anonymous Baptist preacher in the video, so I can't really say much about their messages. But, I do wonder if some people are sort of creating an idol out of bashing the "modern prosperity gospel" (and now even an idol about basing the bashers of the prosperity gospel). While I agree that "prosperity gospel" is fundamentally wrong, it is really worth preaching a whole sermon about? This is why I love my pastor! He just sticks to the bible, and never goes on any rants about anti this or anti that. He just presents the Good News (the entire Good News...nice parts and not so easy-to-digest parts) and lets people hear it and do with it what they may. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Okay, I am just leery of any pastor that has to mock people to get his point across...just me. Including the guy I posted...I think there are better ways to correct doctrine than for a pastor to mock the beliefs of others. I don't agree this man is like John the Baptist. John was essentially an OT prophet akin to Isaiah. That ministry ceased after Christ. Yes? I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. Anyway, I'm glad you found a preacher you like. Not my style, but have at it bro Agreed! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) That seemed really harsh, given the Baptist Pastor said he'd only ever listened to 10 minutes of Washer's messages. Honestly, I don't know anything about Washer, and even less about the anonymous Baptist preacher in the video, so I can't really say much about their messages. But, I do wonder if some people are sort of creating an idol out of bashing the "modern prosperity gospel" (and now even an idol about basing the bashers of the prosperity gospel). While I agree that "prosperity gospel" is fundamentally wrong, it is really worth preaching a whole sermon about? This is why I love my pastor! He just sticks to the bible, and never goes on any rants about anti this or anti that. He just presents the Good News (the entire Good News...nice parts and not so easy-to-digest parts) and lets people hear it and do with it what they may. I agree 100%. I think the guy I posted is childish. To me, both of these men come across as spiritually immature, and not what who I would want to look to as a spiritual mentor (I am only basing on the one clip I have seen; if M30 likes Washer I am sure he has some good stuff). But that is me For every pastor that bashes another, you can find equal videos (which was kind of the point of me posting, as to me all of these anti-vids never give the other side a fair shake and it is annoying when you find a pastor you like, only to have these cheap shot sound bite videos posted, which turn into Christians bashing each other for being more holy than the other denomination). I have left a church after the pastor proceeded to spend an hour bashing Hal Lindsey. So these things are more personal to me. I do not agree with Hal Lindsey on a number of things, but it just comes across as really immature to spend an entire sermon bashing another denomination's doctrine. One guy at work told me his church did an entire series on the anti-Christ ministry of Benny Hinn. Hey I'm not sure about him either, but I don't really want to be a part of a bash fest on Sunday morning lol It's just not edifying to me. I'm not saying there are no false doctrines out there, I just don't think these gotcha videos are really the best approach. Hey, at least this thread isn't about my poor boy Joel Osteen ...we all know M30 has a secret crush on him due to Joel's suave haircut Edited April 22, 2014 by TheFinalWord 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Hey, at least this thread isn't about my poor boy Joel Osteen ...we all know M30 has a secret crush on him due to Joel's suave haircut Well, the thread probably is about Osteen, in a roundabout way. It is a secret crush, so M30 couldn't be so explicit and all. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Well, the thread probably is about Osteen, in a roundabout way. It is a secret crush, so M30 couldn't be so explicit and all. haha maybe not fair from me...M30 is a good man and I know he is a great biblical scholar that's why I give him a hard time The line in the Washer video is the line Rick Warren uses in Purpose Driven Life "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life". God Has a Plan for Your Life So many people take pot shots at Warren, it really annoys me. Not sure why...He has been really awesome about sharing the pain he and his wife have gone through with the death of their son. He is just so real, I get defensive of him when I see him getting picked on. He's one of the greatest preachers of our life time. One pastor I have a lot of respect for is John Piper, and I'm not Calvinist. But he has a way of sharing his beliefs and correcting doctrine, that you can tell he does it from a place of genuine love. And hey John Piper did a cross examination of Rick Warren, and even Piper said he's a great pastor! lol So there. Long vid, but worth a watch sometime: Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 I strongly, strongly disagree about Paul Washer being spiritually immature. His doctrine is as rock solid as it comes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I strongly, strongly disagree about Paul Washer being spiritually immature. His doctrine is as rock solid as it comes. Sure, that may be unfair from me. Perhaps you could post a vid of him preaching a full sermon. I will watch...thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Here's a little bit of a "softer" interview. He's a rather passionate, dynamic person, I guess. He saw his dad literally die in his arms from alcoholism while growing up. I would guess that impacted him greatly. Churches are Using Carnal Means to Attract Visitors (Paul Washer) - YouTube Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 I think my borderline Asperger traits tend to make me only hear the words and doctrine of what a pastor says and not so much how it's delivered. This is both a great strength and a great limitation of mine. I still have to get my bumper sticker: ASPERGER'S FOR CHRIST 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I think my borderline Asperger traits tend to make me only hear the words and doctrine of what a pastor says and not so much how it's delivered. This is both a great strength and a great limitation of mine. I still have to get my bumper sticker: ASPERGER'S FOR CHRIST LOL Never change M30 1 Link to post Share on other sites
reardon Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I can only say what I saw in youtube. First, I don't know Paul Washer. Second, I haven't heard any of his preaching that was the first time I heard it. Lastly, I don't see in his preaching any traces of John the baptist. However, I really have high respect to any pastor. Yet, we should rely only on what pastor said. It is better to know and understand for ourselves what is written in the bible. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Here is Paul Washer in regard to the very things we are discussing: 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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