Bryanp Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 My guess is that in all probability the PI should get you the information that you seek.
BetrayedH Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 If your PI comes up with nothing, will you confess it to her?
Author Arvin_Solheim Posted April 22, 2014 Author Posted April 22, 2014 If your PI comes up with nothing, will you confess it to her? No, I'm no fan of unnecessary honesty to be honest....
hard2c Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 She came over today and was pretty upset at me for accusing her and told me that if I don't trust her, then what is the difference between me (who used to cheat) and her (who never cheated), I faked my acceptance of her excuses...She emphasised it on and on that she would never ever cheat on me and said things that she usually says "You're better than anyone I know" etc..... She told me that I'm being paranoid because whenever I do something out of the ordinary I am cheating and that she has come to understand it well; she basically asked me not to judge her by my own personality..... Still......I wasn't convinced knowing that she's a pretty smart person who is capable of lying well..... I've already talked to a PI - I had never been embarrassed in my entire life; I guess there's a first time for anything, eh? I'm going to put her under constant surveillance while I'm not around.... I'll just sit and wait....I've decided to stop thinking about the issue and it worked with no difficulty; if some evidence turns up then I'll move forward with it, I'm just glad we haven't made any plans for the wedding yet and we're likely not going to do so before 2015....that would've over complicated things..... What I find odd about her behaviour is that if she is cheating, there's clearly not an obvious reason for it because she invests a lot in our relationship; both emotionally and financially, she's always around, always nice, our sex life is pretty great after all this time and just a few days ago she bought me a ridiculously expensive Omega watch because I had lost mine in a boat trip we made a few months back. I always bought my girlfriends expensive things when I was cheating just to make them ignore my change in behaviour, is it the same for women? (I wouldn't have thought it to be since I can't get distracted by gifts and nice gestures) xww also bought an expensive watch for me. I immediately got suspicious and learned later that she was having an affair. Hire a p.i! 1
Oberfeldwebel Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 I don't think that the information that you have would hold up in court and if there are no other red flags, it could just be paranoia. Still the long term chances of this relationship is not good, based on the information you have provided. There seems to be a lack of trust on both sides of the fence here. Her's from what you did in the past and you from imposing her actions to your mindset would have to be cheating, since that's what you did in that situation. You stated that your situation was "nothing other than a few non-emotional one night stands" and while the other women may not have meant nothing more to you, it could have meant a lot more to your fiance. This is what happens when we just sweep the issue under the rug, instead of completely dealing with them. I highly recommend that you and your fiance enroll in premarital counseling to work through past issues and establish boundaries for the future, so that you have a strong relationship. Learning to better communicated as a couple would help immensely.
Davey L Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 It sounds to me like she is cheating. But I don't see how you can be judgemental about it given that you have cheated previously too. You say it is in the past and forgiven etc. but that doesn't mean that she's really OK with it in her heart. My wife had an affair a long time ago. Although we continued together, our relationship was never the same again. I thought I was past it, but occasionally something would remind me of it and the pain would come back. Then, a long time later, I had an affair myself. I think if it had not been that she had had an affair previously, I would not have done it. But somehow I felt that her previous affair somehow justified my own. So I can understand your lady having her own affair. Why do you need proof anyway? If your relationship is not good, and you don't trust each other, why are you continuing and getting married? 1
Author Arvin_Solheim Posted April 22, 2014 Author Posted April 22, 2014 It sounds to me like she is cheating. But I don't see how you can be judgemental about it given that you have cheated previously too. You say it is in the past and forgiven etc. but that doesn't mean that she's really OK with it in her heart. My wife had an affair a long time ago. Although we continued together, our relationship was never the same again. I thought I was past it, but occasionally something would remind me of it and the pain would come back. Then, a long time later, I had an affair myself. I think if it had not been that she had had an affair previously, I would not have done it. But somehow I felt that her previous affair somehow justified my own. So I can understand your lady having her own affair. Why do you need proof anyway? If your relationship is not good, and you don't trust each other, why are you continuing and getting married? That really doesn't justify things, and I'm not being judgemental; I'm just saying that I can't live with someone who would cheat on me.(she may be able to do that but I can't) now why do I need proof? because I love her and she brings me joy, I'm happy most of the times and she's one of the few people I can tolerate for more than a few minutes, she's smart, beautiful, comes from a good family and is a perfect fit for me....the reason I need proof is that unless I'm 100% right about her cheating I can't let go of the best relationship I've had in all my life....She trusts me or she claims to trust me since I've changed my behaviour and the fact that I don't trust her has nothing to do with her personality, I don't trust anyone, that's just how I am....I'm not a paranoid person who constantly looks over his shoulder and I usually shrug off and stay silent even if I know someone is lying or hatching some sinister plan unless it directly involves me.
SCAATY Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 It is obvious that you want to judge your GF by different standards than you want to live by. When questioned, your response appears to be something like: “If she cheats then I leave. If she is willing to forgive me then there is no harm in me cheating”. You feel that if this works, then there is no problem. However, many of us we view this as you being morally challenged. The majority of the signs that you have given suggest that you are about to undertake a marriage that is destined to fail (regardless of if your GF cheated or not). The first couple of year of a relationship is about love and infatuation. The rest of your life is about love and compromise. You are basically saying that you want veto power and are not willing to compromise. Realize that this is a fine way for someone to live their life. However, it is not the approach that is going to lead to a long marriage. 3
Author Arvin_Solheim Posted April 23, 2014 Author Posted April 23, 2014 It is obvious that you want to judge your GF by different standards than you want to live by. When questioned, your response appears to be something like: “If she cheats then I leave. If she is willing to forgive me then there is no harm in me cheating”. You feel that if this works, then there is no problem. However, many of us we view this as you being morally challenged. The majority of the signs that you have given suggest that you are about to undertake a marriage that is destined to fail (regardless of if your GF cheated or not). The first couple of year of a relationship is about love and infatuation. The rest of your life is about love and compromise. You are basically saying that you want veto power and are not willing to compromise. Realize that this is a fine way for someone to live their life. However, it is not the approach that is going to lead to a long marriage. I have no idea what I said that annoyed you so much but give me a break, when I got caught after cheating, I did everything right by her, I struggled to keep things as they were, I changed some of my behaviours that I deemed impossible to change and I haven't even come close to cheating again, (Sure sometimes I think about it but I always remember why I stopped) I have not cheated on her for almost a year now and if I ask not to be cheated on, I'm not asking too much.....you judge the entire relationship by a few comments....most of your conclusions are wrong as they should be....
SCAATY Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 I have two daughters. You are an example of one of my worst nightmares, someone who is willing to take as much as possible from a relationship and give as little as possible in term of fidelity. I understand how markets work. No one is forcing your GF to stay with you. However, is she fully informed? Are you two on equal footing? In reading your posts I feel that your view is that as long as I have not crossed the boundary of driving her away, then I can keep taking and it is her free decision to stay. I do not need to look after her only myself. If she accepts my terms then there is no problem. I understand this mentality and approach. I simply do not think it is ethical. I would feel very sad if either of my daughters were your GF. Please correct me. Where are my inference or conclusions wrong? If you can explain where I am wrong, and why you are a wonderful catch, I will freely admit my mistakes. 3
Man Mountain Makino Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 In principle cheating is for me nothing more than mere "Human condition" and logically I know it should not be as soul shattering and morally frowned upon as it is but in practice I know that I can't live with someone who would give the privileges I possess to other men....in her head or some other person's head it may be okay or bad or out-right unacceptable I think your attitude about cheating in a relationship sent her a message about how much you value sexual exclusivity in a romantic relationship. You set the table, now it's time to eat. 2
Realist3 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 It's too bad your gf can't read this thread. I would guess that if she did this whole discussion would be moot. 4
Bryanp Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 When will be the first time that the PI will report back to you?
Davey L Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 I have two daughters. You are an example of one of my worst nightmares, someone who is willing to take as much as possible from a relationship and give as little as possible in term of fidelity. I understand how markets work. No one is forcing your GF to stay with you. However, is she fully informed? Are you two on equal footing? In reading your posts I feel that your view is that as long as I have not crossed the boundary of driving her away, then I can keep taking and it is her free decision to stay. I do not need to look after her only myself. If she accepts my terms then there is no problem. I understand this mentality and approach. I simply do not think it is ethical. I would feel very sad if either of my daughters were your GF. Please correct me. Where are my inference or conclusions wrong? If you can explain where I am wrong, and why you are a wonderful catch, I will freely admit my mistakes. I agree completely with this comment as I also have two daughters (28 and 32 years now). Though knowing my daughters I'd be more worried for your life than for their happiness - either of them would probably provide you with a robust and violently physical response - they're not women to mess with!
Author Arvin_Solheim Posted April 23, 2014 Author Posted April 23, 2014 Please correct me. Where are my inference or conclusions wrong? If you can explain where I am wrong, and why you are a wonderful catch, I will freely admit my mistakes. It's not in my position to talk about myself and how good of a man I am in an internet forum in which no one actually knows me, but believe me when I say it that my qualities far outweigh my vices, I'd be surprised if they didn't; one of the reasons I was always unfaithful until I changed my behaviour was the fact that I was surrounded by willing quality women who at times came on to me without me initiating any sort of flirtatious behaviour. I think your attitude about cheating in a relationship sent her a message about how much you value sexual exclusivity in a romantic relationship. You set the table, now it's time to eat. She knows that I can't handle such a thing, she has reminded me time and time again after she had caught me cheating that if I was in her place I wouldn't even flinch before dumping her and getting rid of her for the rest of my life, I don't think that my "Logical" open-mindedness has anything to do with this, as I said before I logically think that it's human condition but emotionally I can never tolerate it, thus I never allow such behaviour as I don't allow my women to get tattoos or piercings or smoke cigarettes (I don't mind those things but I just can't accept them in my own partner) When will be the first time that the PI will report back to you? He is to report to me when anything noteworthy comes up, his investigation started from this morning. I agree completely with this comment as I also have two daughters (28 and 32 years now). Though knowing my daughters I'd be more worried for your life than for their happiness - either of them would probably provide you with a robust and violently physical response - they're not women to mess with! She actually is a violent person, even though she's tiny, she attacked me and hit me and then grabbed one of my ceremonial swords (it was blunt) but I took it from her.....
Man Mountain Makino Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 I don't think that my "Logical" open-mindedness has anything to do with this, as I said before I logically think that it's human condition but emotionally I can never tolerate it, thus I never allow such behaviour I know you don't think that your logical open mindedness has anything to do with this. Which makes this even more of a sad situation. 2
No Limit Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 No offense OP but I dare say that the marriage you and your GF are planning is doomed already. There's not much trust, and without it, what are you even building your relationship on? Simply because she didn't dump you?...
Author Arvin_Solheim Posted April 29, 2014 Author Posted April 29, 2014 Updating.... It's been a very tiring and expensive week with nothing to show for....according to my PI her entire schedule away from home is no different from what she says and the keylogger software I had installed in her phone turned out nothing that would even slightly hint towards cheating; her texts to her friends actually made me feel guilty a little for suspecting her since all she does is talk about how great I am and how much I've changed to them!!!!(boring stuff) I'm going to keep the surveillance going for at least a month or two maybe....But I'm starting to doubt my previous thoughts....She's smart enough to hide her tracks but not that dedicated and smart to completely eliminate all evidence...My PI even dug up her appointments and calls from the last 6 months and there was nothing there to suspect either.....except for her ex that kept texting her and asking her to get back together and she rejecting him with a lot of hurtful words.(which she had told me)
Raena Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Updating.... It's been a very tiring and expensive week with nothing to show for....according to my PI her entire schedule away from home is no different from what she says and the keylogger software I had installed in her phone turned out nothing that would even slightly hint towards cheating; her texts to her friends actually made me feel guilty a little for suspecting her since all she does is talk about how great I am and how much I've changed to them!!!!(boring stuff) I'm going to keep the surveillance going for at least a month or two maybe....But I'm starting to doubt my previous thoughts....She's smart enough to hide her tracks but not that dedicated and smart to completely eliminate all evidence...My PI even dug up her appointments and calls from the last 6 months and there was nothing there to suspect either.....except for her ex that kept texting her and asking her to get back together and she rejecting him with a lot of hurtful words.(which she had told me) You know... you should really just let this poor woman go. The PI found nothing because there IS nothing. How frightening to think that you feel the need to have this much control over her, don't trust her, don't respect her. It's just sickening. Let her go, it sounds like she deserves much better than you are giving her.
Davey L Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Updating.... It's been a very tiring and expensive week with nothing to show for....according to my PI her entire schedule away from home is no different from what she says and the keylogger software I had installed in her phone turned out nothing that would even slightly hint towards cheating; her texts to her friends actually made me feel guilty a little for suspecting her since all she does is talk about how great I am and how much I've changed to them!!!!(boring stuff) I'm going to keep the surveillance going for at least a month or two maybe....But I'm starting to doubt my previous thoughts....She's smart enough to hide her tracks but not that dedicated and smart to completely eliminate all evidence...My PI even dug up her appointments and calls from the last 6 months and there was nothing there to suspect either.....except for her ex that kept texting her and asking her to get back together and she rejecting him with a lot of hurtful words.(which she had told me) Sounds like your relationship is stuffed if there is so much mistrust that you have to do this. Personally, I've never seen the point in all this surveillance. If you feel the need for it, the relationship is over anyway, whether there has been any cheating or not. I have never invaded my wife's privacy in this way even through our affairs. I've never so much as checked her telephone or email or looked in her handbag in all our years of marriage.
fellini Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) The problem is that I'm 90% sure and unfortunately I can't take action unless I'm 100% sure that she is cheating otherwise some part of me would be always thinking about whether I did the right thing or not... She is a pretty amazing person but if she did cheat on me I will leave her with no questions or further arguments; that is one thing I can never tolerate. I cannot let her go unless I'm 100% sure, at that moment I won't even waste one second. Well start with the obvious! You telephoned her, she didn't answer. She phoned you back and told you why. Take a look at her phone/records and find out if in fact the phone was in use during those minutes/hour she claimed to be on the phone. If it was not, if there are no logs showing activity, then she lied about the phone call. Also see who it was she was talking to. You want to know if she cheated, but you probably cannot, but what you can know is if her alibi is legit, and there is nothing she can do about that. She would have been better off telling you she was driving to the store and couldn't pick up than lie about a non existent telephone call. Now if you find out she was actually talking to a friend during an hour, the only possibility is she if she was having sex with some guy talking on the phone. You think that's likely? To catch a cheat you have to catch their lies. If it turns out she was on the phone, put it aside, and do something about your overly active imagination. Everything you said leads you to think that as soon as you got out the door, she had a friend over. So verify the phone call and that's all you need. Edited April 29, 2014 by fellini
fellini Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Sounds like your relationship is stuffed if there is so much mistrust that you have to do this. Personally, I've never seen the point in all this surveillance. If you feel the need for it, the relationship is over anyway, whether there has been any cheating or not. I have never invaded my wife's privacy in this way even through our affairs. I've never so much as checked her telephone or email or looked in her handbag in all our years of marriage. Me neither, but now that it has happened, it's nice to have comfort in knowing the fuller picture of her life as she lives it! As soon as DDay hit, we agreed to no contact: I was the first to look at her inbox, and we exchanged phones for at least a week. For peace of mind I spent my days working in the university where I could keep an eye on who was going into her office. And doing this I intercepted an email from the AP who although he was told it was over, was giving it one last shot trying to pull the emotional strings. One year later she still has not seen this letter, and told me she didn't want to. I also found a deleted document in dropbox in which she had tried to save all their email messages into a document before deleting the emails, for some kind of nostalgic memory of their lost love. That she created a file disturbed me. That she deleted it told me she realised early that this was unacceptable.
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