Strength in Healing Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 First off, please, people, don't break NC. Ever. You find out things you didn't want to hear. I'm good at psychology, it's what I'm getting my doctorate in, and even I couldn't convince her to reverse her choice when I broke NC. I found out very painful things, including she moved in with someone else, but also that it is not a good relationship, and is quite dark. My objective quickly changed from trying to get her back, to at least looking out for her. I started dating someone else a little while later whom I care about dearly, so my objective was easy to keep in check. He would get violent with objects around them, and eventually got in her face about me. But she kept defending him. I started to see, I couldn't save her. So I pulled away. I won't speak to her anymore, and haven't. I told myself I forgive her, and I told myself I forgive myself for hurting her in the relationship, and everything else. I don't quite know HOW to forgive us though. I tell myself I do, and I feel slightly different, but don't know if I have actually done anything... Have you tried forgiving them and yourself? How does it feel? I'm still sad at her actions all the way from breaking up, until now. Very sad that she made these choices and still does.
sooshi Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 SIH, it's good to see a thread from you. I know you still care about this girl, and that is admirable. She was in an abusive relationship with this guy (it seems like she got out of it, since she kept defriending him?). What is it about you two that you are having trouble forgiving? What is the root of it all? I've had to work on forgiving myself for letting a lot of things go, that I shouldn't have let go. I chalked it down to love and commitment, and wanted to be understanding and forgiving. I wasn't assertive about things like him missing his previous ex and wanting to spend time with her, or about him desiring to be in an open relationship during the last few days of our engagement. I'm still working on forgiving him for pursuing my best friend following the end of our engagement. Also, still trying to forgive my friend for allowing it to happen as long as it did and for not standing up for me. Trying to forgive them has been challenging, and I am a very forgiving person. Sometimes I feel badly because I know I haven't been able to truly forgive (and I *want* to be forgiving). Other times, I feel like since my ex-fiance seems to have no remorse, that there is no reason to forgive him. I just need to forgive myself for allowing this to happen. Maybe that's what you need to do as well. Forgiveness will have to come from within, I believe. Not so much for her, but for yourself. I'm sorry for the sadness you've felt all this time. 2
Author Strength in Healing Posted April 18, 2014 Author Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Thanks sooshi it's good to hear from you, I always welcome and tend to agree with your advice.. Sorry I wasn't clear in my original post, I wish I could edit that to make it clearer, but here's a quick rundown: My ex fiance broke up with me one dayI found out she was "talking" to a creepy, older co-worker that tried to be my friend a few timesI stopped talking to her that night, called her a pathological liar (which I see unfortunately she is).Went NC for over a month. Finally wavered one time, and she jumped at the chance to talk.She stated how she is with this guy now though, but he kind of scares her. She stated how he got violent with objects, and got in her face.I warned her psychologically all the signs, and he had all of them. But she was still convinced it was all "one time things". I tried my hardest, but realized I can't make the blind see. Psychology itself isn't even strong enough to.I started dating someone else, but still talked to my ex because I felt for her and was worried. This is what caused my ex's boyfriend to get in her face. She ignored all my advice. Stayed with him. I know, and I think everyone here who is intelligent, knows where that relationship is heading. It's sad I can't save her. I am in law enforcement, but I can't arrest him before he commits an act (though him being violent with objects is technically domestic violence, or would be at least if she stated she feared for her safety, which she obviously won't say unfortunately), but I probably couldn't arrest him even if he did go all out because of the personal connection I have to her. So I can't even use my power to protect her. So I have to cut her off. I tell myself I forgive her. I tell myself I forgive him. I tell myself I forgive myself. I just hope it does something to me. I want to make a change within me, I just don't know how to other than tell myself I did... Thank you sooshi for your advice and nice to see you. Edited April 18, 2014 by Strength in Healing
sooshi Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 Yeah, that relationship is heading south. Like you, I am saddened by the choices she has made and is continuing to make. Eventually, I'm sure she will see what she has gotten herself into (maybe during the relationship, maybe afterwards). She isn't aware right now. She's justifying his (unacceptable) behaviour. She knows not what she does at this time. Perhaps she's lacking in self-esteem/self-respect, and this is why she lets it go so easily. You've tried to protect her. You've warned her about the signs. You stayed in contact with her because you care about her safety and well-being, even though she was the one who left. I think you're pretty amazing and that you've done all that you could. <3
Author Strength in Healing Posted April 18, 2014 Author Posted April 18, 2014 Thanks again, sooshi. You nailed it unfortunately. She does in fact have very deep self-esteem and insecurity issues. I brought these to her attention many times in the relationship in an attempt to open her eyes, but the problem with helping someone you get close to is that in their eyes, you become part of the problem. That's why people can't be psychologists to their friends or family once they get their doctorate. My dad and everyone else says just let her go, she made the dumb choice and continues to. Which is a fact. I just am plagued with the deeper understanding of her (damn psychology to hell sometimes) and her past. She went through two rapes, an extremely abusive relationship for 7 years, etc... this is all she knows, but she thinks she isn't in an abusive relationship. She says she feels safe with him for the first time with anyone. How ironic, isn't it? My theory is she feels safe in public with him because deep down in her heart she knows HE is the threat.
sooshi Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 I'm sorry for the past she has had to endure. That sounds awful. I think that your theory is a valid one, and probably accurate as well. It's hard when she has gone through a lot of abusive things with men. It's what she seems to know (although I don't think you were abusive towards her!!), and so she thinks this is the best it gets and is acceptable. I think she has deluded herself, and has convinced herself that this is good and what she deserves. This will end eventually. Hopefully it won't last as long as seven years... hopefully it won't last much longer at all. As long as she stays in this relationship, she is hurting herself. But your dad and others are right: she made these choices and continues to do so. You've done your best to protect her and she can't see what you're protecting her from. It is hard to let go, because you care about her so much. Recognize that you've been there for her to the best of your ability. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. <3
Jiivy Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 Given this girl's history - I'd be willing to say that she's attracted to pretty damaged relationships or at the very least, damaged people and she knows it despite all the pain that's been inflicted on her. I'm not sure how this can be corrected from the outside unless she wants to get the help first. Even then, as someone with a strong interest in her you might not be the right person for the job (i.e. she needs to see a shrink). I think forgiveness here actually has to work two ways. First you have to forgive yourself...by that I mean looking inwards and deciding fundamentally what kind of person you are, acknowledging your own shortcomings in the relationships and more importantly here - acknowledging your own shortcoming in helping this girl. Once you're accepting of the fact that despite your efforts - you can't save her (right now/any more) only then can you get to forgiving her for the damaged caused. I'm trying every day to forgive her by accepting that we're all individuals with our own problems and that despite how much we built together and fixed from within our relationship, ultimately we are still sentient individuals with individual problems. But honestly, that's easier for me to say than do. I can't still can't stop crying every day for what happened.
sooshi Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 Oh no, Jiivy, I was hoping you were feeling better. I've wondered about how you've been. Your insights are wonderful. Jiivy, I think you're a wonderful guy. I feel for you. You spent seven years with this girl, only to have her leave for someone else. You do NOT deserve this, and I hope you don't blame yourself for this. All three of us had our fiance(e) leave us. I guess now we're not so naive to think that if we get engaged again, that it will be a truly be a lifelong commitment in the end. As disheartening as that sounds, may we learn not to blame ourselves when someone else chooses to leave. May we gain strength and healing (no pun intended, Strength in Healing ). Jiivy, you're often telling others on here that we're in this together, that we can heal together--I love that about you! Thank you for being encouraging to others, even when you're feeling as much pain as you are. May we all find comfort in one another's encouragement and support, and allow forgiveness to flow through us. May we be gentle, kind, and understanding with ourselves. We will love again!--ourselves, at first... and then someone else who will truly value and appreciate and love us. Gooo, SIH and Jiivy, goo!! <3
sooshi Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Edited: Oops, I went to re-write the post because I had accidentally clicked on something when I meant to post and thought it didn't post. Edited April 18, 2014 by sooshi
Jiivy Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 Thank you sooshi! One of the biggest things that keeps me afloat is seeing others like yourself here on LS rally round and give some kind of companionship. It's an increadibly powerful thing to know that you're not alone in the world with your pain. Yes, it kills me every day still but I'm learning to be kind to myself. A long commitment doesn't die in a month like that - in some kind of twisted way, it makes me proud to see how much I really hurt. It shows that I really care about it. This post is ultimately about forgiveness so I'll reiterate the point. Forgive yourself for being nothing but a loving, imperfect person who gave love to another loving, imperfect person too. (A bit of a tounge-twister!)
realfriends Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 Truly forgiving an ex is such a hard thing to do. Its so easy to say you have forgiven, but when it comes down to it, forgiving an ex is a large toll and is one of the hardest things to actually do. At times, I think I forgive my ex, but I know its going to be a while until I have truly forgiven her.
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