why do some ow think this...?

April 9, 2014

The choice seems simple to me.

A - believe the WH's lies about the marriage - this means the poor fellow is trapped, really loves the OW, and the situation is a tragedy

B - believe the WH regrets the A and wants to reconcile - this means the A really WAS a fantasy, and that is really WAS wrong, and that is pretty tough to face

As someone with experience in doing some very wrong things, I can understand why A would be the more comfortable belief to live in. Choice A means I am part of a tragic love story and not something that was wrong.

...or C - believe nothing but the evidence you have gathered for yourself, firsthand. I've always been a fan of C. It's stood me well in all of my Rs, romantic or platonic.

But I believe too many people - be they OW, BS, WS - choose to believe whatever accords with the "reality" in which they are most deeply invested, and will "believe" the evidence which supports this view, while rejecting evidence which contradicts it. So an OW may hear from a friend that fMM's BW really seemed to have him on a short leash when they were all at a social event, and she'll add that to her dossier of supporting evidence that he's under lock and key; BW may see a text to the OW signed with a single X and believe he couldn't really have loved the OW since there were no gushing endearments and only a single X; WS may see his fOW's NC as a sign that she wasn't really that into him since she was able to cut him of so cleanly, absolving him of the guilt of "leading her on"; or he may see his BW's demands for and end to privacy postDday as confirmation of her "controlling nature" thus justifying his rebellion...

April 9, 2014

As many people have said, there is little to be gained from using generalizations. Every situation is unique and everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, including the BS. The fact is, these situations are generally not so black and white.

Yes, many APs lie to the OW/OM and to the BS. Many future fake and talk about a sexless, unhappy marriage that they plan on leaving. Others don't. My xAP never indicated he was leaving his marriage and I never claimed to be leaving mine. We never spoke poorly about our BSs or said we were unhappy in our marriages. In fact, we were very honest about our love for our families and not wanting to hurt them. We also loved each other very much and didn't want to hurt each other.

He has chosen to R with his W and keep his family together which is as it should be. I don't think his W is holding him hostage and I know that he loves her and is devastated for hurting her. But I also know his allegiance to her is about more than his love for her. It's about his children, his home, and his way of life. He talked about his obligation to her and not wanting his children to hate him when they get older. He also would tearfully ask why we couldn't have met each other earlier. He wasn't stringing me along....these weren't lies...this is how he felt. We weren't "cake eating" for 5 long years. We cared for each other very deeply but knew it was an impossible situation. That's not to say I think we were some tragic love story. We were well aware of the destruction that would have been caused if we had left our BSs and that we would have resented each other. Loving each other wasn't a good enough reason to destroy so many lives.

My point is, generalizations about BS and OW are useless. Not every WS lies to the OW and not every OW believes that the AP is "trapped" in their marriage. It is far more complicated than that.

April 9, 2014

Also as someone who has a lot of experience doing some very wrong things, choosing your Choice A isn't about comfort and trying to deliberately avoid being part of something wrong. That's what your post sounded like.

Sometimes, people actually believe the things they are told by the person they love. Wow, what a concept... kind of like you, I would bet.

Exactly.

And actually, mine was worse. You believed the lies someone else told you. I believed the lies I told myself.

Althought...speaking as a FWS, sometimes at the time, the WS thinks the lies they tell the AP are true. because the feeling is so intense. And then when the fog clears, they realize they really DO want the marriage.

Bottom line, when you get right down to it, the WS has basically hurt TWO people they claim to "love." Sure, maybe the AP went into it knowing they were married, but the WS is sort of the "pain catalyst."

April 9, 2014

It really goes hand in hand with the generalizations made about WS...especially MM.

How often have we read...that a BS is stuck with a less than desirable human being if they choose R? Whether it now be a duty-bound type relationship or look...the BS chose to stick with that lying, cheating sack of....

How often we read....that an AP or a BS has worked on the issues surrounding the affair...externally and internally and is given praise for it. Followed by...WS/MM will be forever stuck with their miserable selves. Beyond redemption or change. That is reserved for only certain alphabet posters.

Of all the alphabet concoctions....WS seem to be held the most accountable for unhealthy thought processes/actions/behaviours. From BS, AP, even other WS. Not saying that is a bad thing. I actually think it is good. A WS gets challenged right out of the gate. They are also the ones more likely to retract a negative response from being challenged.

Why are WS held to a different standard when having to face their past, their choices and their thought processes? Why must they wear the scourge of mankind for the rest of their lives? Why are they not afforded the same freedom of change as everyone else?

It seems...it is easier...for most...to pigeon-hole a WS into what fits their narrative....and then one can rugsweep all of their own issues at the feet of the WS.

April 9, 2014

It really goes hand in hand with the generalizations made about WS...especially MM.

How often have we read...that a BS is stuck with a less than desirable human being if they choose R? Whether it now be a duty-bound type relationship or look...the BS chose to stick with that lying, cheating sack of....

How often we read....that an AP or a BS has worked on the issues surrounding the affair...externally and internally and is given praise for it. Followed by...WS/MM will be forever stuck with their miserable selves. Beyond redemption or change. That is reserved for only certain alphabet posters.

Of all the alphabet concoctions....WS seem to be held the most accountable for unhealthy thought processes/actions/behaviours. From BS, AP, even other WS. Not saying that is a bad thing. I actually think it is good. A WS gets challenged right out of the gate. They are also the ones more likely to retract a negative response from being challenged.

Why are WS held to a different standard when having to face their past, their choices and their thought processes? Why must they wear the scourge of mankind for the rest of their lives? Why are they not afforded the same freedom of change as everyone else?

It seems...it is easier...for most...to pigeon-hole a WS into what fits their narrative....and then one can rugsweep all of their own issues at the feet of the WS.

I think some of it is because we pigeonhole ourselves.

On the days I come to LS knowing that there is such a thing as redemption, that, according to the Bible I claim to believe in , "whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it," that I am changing, that the past really is the past - the most voluntarily bitter and angry person on the planet can't ruffle me.

If I come on a day when I look in the mirror and am consumed with "How could you??????" then I soak up all the projection and anger because I feel that I MUST punish myself for being so vile.

April 9, 2014

Learning: Exactly! This was my situation as well. Great Post!

April 9, 2014

I think some of it is because we pigeonhole ourselves.

On the days I come to LS knowing that there is such a thing as redemption, that, according to the Bible I claim to believe in , "whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it," that I am changing, that the past really is the past - the most voluntarily bitter and angry person on the planet can't ruffle me.

If I come on a day when I look in the mirror and am consumed with "How could you??????" then I soak up all the projection and anger because I feel that I MUST punish myself for being so vile.

I believe that is because a remorseful person....is just that...remorseful.

They are more likely to question all of their thought processes, analyze themselves more deeply...and....more willing to face harsh truths. They have a need to check-in with themselves. Kinda like having to pinch themselves to see if the internal work they have done is there.

Once ones internal work has been tested enough times...the need to punish oneself will pass. A remorseful person learns to trust the new them. The need to prove that they are no longer that person is not required.

April 9, 2014

I believe that is because a remorseful person....is just that...remorseful.

They are more likely to question all of their thought processes, analyze themselves more deeply...and....more willing to face harsh truths. They have a need to check-in with themselves. Kinda like having to pinch themselves to see if the internal work they have done is there.

Once ones internal work has been tested enough times...the need to punish oneself will pass. A remorseful person learns to trust the new them. The need to prove that they are no longer that person is not required.

I do think this is true. I also think that part of that is not only distance ourselves from our own self-disdain, but learning to distance ourselves from the outside sources of it as well. That may mean stepping back from the perpetually unforgiving or judgmental friend or family member, changing churches, or putting posters on a forum on ignore.

April 9, 2014

As many people have said, there is little to be gained from using generalizations. Every situation is unique and everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, including the BS. The fact is, these situations are generally not so black and white.

Yes, many APs lie to the OW/OM and to the BS. Many future fake and talk about a sexless, unhappy marriage that they plan on leaving. Others don't. My xAP never indicated he was leaving his marriage and I never claimed to be leaving mine. We never spoke poorly about our BSs or said we were unhappy in our marriages. In fact, we were very honest about our love for our families and not wanting to hurt them. We also loved each other very much and didn't want to hurt each other.

He has chosen to R with his W and keep his family together which is as it should be. I don't think his W is holding him hostage and I know that he loves her and is devastated for hurting her. But I also know his allegiance to her is about more than his love for her. It's about his children, his home, and his way of life. He talked about his obligation to her and not wanting his children to hate him when they get older. He also would tearfully ask why we couldn't have met each other earlier. He wasn't stringing me along....these weren't lies...this is how he felt. We weren't "cake eating" for 5 long years. We cared for each other very deeply but knew it was an impossible situation. That's not to say I think we were some tragic love story. We were well aware of the destruction that would have been caused if we had left our BSs and that we would have resented each other. Loving each other wasn't a good enough reason to destroy so many lives.

My point is, generalizations about BS and OW are useless. Not every WS lies to the OW and not every OW believes that the AP is "trapped" in their marriage. It is far more complicated than that.

I wish I could give this post a hundred likes. Excellent... exactly how we felt.

April 9, 2014

DKT3,

This is a generalisation that is certainly not correct in my case.

I have always believed that no-one can be "taken" that doesn't want to be. I believed it before my exH cheated and I still believe it now.
The OW isn't significant per se. She isn't special, just available. If a spouse has it in their mind to cheat they will do so.

I always laid the blame for my husband's choice to cheat right where it belonged - at his feet.

My sentiment also....

April 9, 2014

As many people have said, there is little to be gained from using generalizations. Every situation is unique and everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, including the BS. The fact is, these situations are generally not so black and white.

Yes, many APs lie to the OW/OM and to the BS. Many future fake and talk about a sexless, unhappy marriage that they plan on leaving. Others don't. My xAP never indicated he was leaving his marriage and I never claimed to be leaving mine. We never spoke poorly about our BSs or said we were unhappy in our marriages. In fact, we were very honest about our love for our families and not wanting to hurt them. We also loved each other very much and didn't want to hurt each other.

He has chosen to R with his W and keep his family together which is as it should be. I don't think his W is holding him hostage and I know that he loves her and is devastated for hurting her. But I also know his allegiance to her is about more than his love for her. It's about his children, his home, and his way of life. He talked about his obligation to her and not wanting his children to hate him when they get older. He also would tearfully ask why we couldn't have met each other earlier. He wasn't stringing me along....these weren't lies...this is how he felt. We weren't "cake eating" for 5 long years. We cared for each other very deeply but knew it was an impossible situation. That's not to say I think we were some tragic love story. We were well aware of the destruction that would have been caused if we had left our BSs and that we would have resented each other. Loving each other wasn't a good enough reason to destroy so many lives.

My point is, generalizations about BS and OW are useless. Not every WS lies to the OW and not every OW believes that the AP is "trapped" in their marriage. It is far more complicated than that.

Couldn't agree more - wonderful post!

April 9, 2014

My point is, generalizations about BS and OW are useless. Not every WS lies to the OW and not every OW believes that the AP is "trapped" in their marriage. It is far more complicated than that.

Exactly. Relationships are complicated in nature. Each relationship is complicated. Why generalized when we are no experts? If we were such experts, then we wouldn't need to end up in LS...

April 9, 2014

My sharing of this story is my own experience, any reference to "my/you/how could you/him her and other generalizations is contained within my own little story. No offense or reflecting is directed to any members on this forum:)

My ex-husband and I married young, our relationship was difficult right from the get go. He had his issues with drinking and drugs. I had my issues with sexual assault as a young teenager. Neither of us sought help or grew personally in our younger years to overcome our issues and see outside of our own self absorbed hurts. It took years for me to not be or play the victim. Lots of counselling along the way, having children, having an awsome Mother who called me on my bullcrap and finally gaining the ability to see outside of my selfish thinking. Along the way my ex-husband and I experienced great pain in his affair. Stuff happened, we stayed together, again didn't deal with issues and finally divorced. I knew of his affair partner, her name and what she looked like that she was divorced and had two kids. There was no interaction between the two of us at the time. I know I wasn't angry at her or held her responsible so making contact wasn't on my mind. I had questions and thoughts, lots of them! Years later when I was divorced my ex was going through a really rough time, we still talked and I knew he was in contact with his ex affair partner. My ex took his own life and I knew she couldn't be left in the dark as to why the sudden stop to contact happened. So I called her, we had a sad conversation and ended the call. The next night she needed more closure though and boy was that tough on me. We talked of the affair and she told me that they were going to wait until our kids were older and no financial obligation was necessary. Even though I was divorced at that point it hurt to hear what they discussed. I still wasn't angry at her it was just so sad that both of us went through this experience. She did tell me she came to a point where she wasn't going to wait for kids to get older and she gave him an ultimatum her or me. He chose me only because he didn't see the difference between the two of woman other than I held a marriage certificate. It must have been very hurtful to her at the time and it was very hurtful for me to hear years later. We both heard things and we both took our own meanings from those things said. Unless he had us both sitting down with him we were going to miss things that were being said separately. It would have been much more productive to have a Q&A with all three of us for better understanding of what was truth and what was not:)

Edited April 9, 2014 by Tullyseptember
Posted before finished

April 9, 2014

Affairs grow on a foundation of lies and betrayal, how can they be real? I can understand how single women can become emotionally vested with MM. What she has to understand is she is dealing with a liar and cheater. Yet they hang on to every word, and believe him whole heartedly.

I have tons of friends that has or is cheating, in most cases we will sit around and joke about the things they say to the OW to prolong the affair. I have one friend who went as far as having divorce papers drawn to show is AP, yet had no intention on divorcing his wife.

Point being, while the OW is truely in the "RELATIONSHIP" 9 of 10 times the WH is into the sex or in some cases the companionship but not the relationship. They simply aren't emotionally vested dispite what he tell the OW.

I agree with your last paragraph. I've also seen it go the other way where the woman only wanted some tenderness and sex on the side with no intention of leaving her husband and kids. One case I know about the marriage was sexless and the woman couldn't live that way. But she never intended to leave her husband and AFAIK never did.

April 9, 2014

The WS and affair partner get a vote in choosing an affair, the betrayed spouse is not given a vote. The betrayed spouse is purposefully placed in the dark. If there's a great divide this is it.

There are marriages where the "BS" turns a blind eye.

April 9, 2014

I think some of it is because we pigeonhole ourselves.

On the days I come to LS knowing that there is such a thing as redemption, that, according to the Bible I claim to believe in , "whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it," that I am changing, that the past really is the past - the most voluntarily bitter and angry person on the planet can't ruffle me.

If I come on a day when I look in the mirror and am consumed with "How could you??????" then I soak up all the projection and anger because I feel that I MUST punish myself for being so vile.

I agree with you. But why is it that in many threads here folks pile up on a WS claiming that there can be no redemption for a cheater? I know that some of those folks have been very badly hurt, but the vehemence exhibited is sometimes scary.

April 9, 2014

There are marriages where the "BS" turns a blind eye.

I have heard of these mythical creatures but only have experienced them second or third hand myself.

April 9, 2014

I have read numerous threads by some ow(I know not all think this)but a lot do,that if the wh,leaves them to work on the marriage,they think somehow either the bs,has them held hostage some how,either financially,or the kids,the house etc etc.
well in my situation we lost our home during the economy crash,we rent now,we haave no debt,my car is paid for so is his,so is the motorcycle,and our kids are older,and on there own,i can provide for myself financially,it would be hard,but iam an independent woman,he didn't need me,and I definitely didn't need him,but when dday came and the sh*t hit the fan,he begged for reconciliation,because he loves me,and never stopped,even when he fu**ed up royaly,just a rant I guess

In my situation she felt that I had control but they both threw each other under the bus. He begged, he blamed and he lost it completely. I didn't need him but he sure as hell needed me.

April 9, 2014

That doesn't seem to be the norm for BS's in terms of responding to posts on the OW/OM forum though (the bolded). So I thought I had just as much right responding here as anyone.

Not angry. And you're right. So many of these threads are just repetitive.

you do have just as much right to post here,i didn't say otherwise,just felt you were implying what was the purpose of this post,when I can read it somewhere else,its just something I want to learn,from both sides,and I have my reasons why I want to find this out

April 9, 2014

The choice seems simple to me.

A - believe the WH's lies about the marriage - this means the poor fellow is trapped, really loves the OW, and the situation is a tragedy

B - believe the WH regrets the A and wants to reconcile - this means the A really WAS a fantasy, and that is really WAS wrong, and that is pretty tough to face

As someone with experience in doing some very wrong things, I can understand why A would be the more comfortable belief to live in. Choice A means I am part of a tragic love story and not something that was wrong.

Neither of these choices describes my situation and/or mindset as OW.

I appreciate your posts, Jane Doe, but this one seems to be a generalization to me. Easy to do because often, in my own mind, I do make judgements and generalizations, too, about others and their situations. For me, it is a challenge to try to live beyond them!

April 9, 2014

You seem to really take offence from my opinions. Yet your not hearing my message. Which isn't a shock because they go against your beliefs. We disagree yet I respect your opinion.

DKT3, to me it seemed as if Hope Shimmers was listening to you, hearing what you were saying and offering in a respectful, intelligent, well-informed and nonjudgmental manner excellent information for you to consider.

I also went back to reread her posts to you and couldn't figure out why you thought she was taking offense to your opinions. The only thing I could think of as a possibility is that you might think since she didn't agree with you she was offended by you. Idk. It seemed to me she was just again, respectfully, offering rebuttals.

Just so you know, I'm not offended!

Edited April 9, 2014 by Speakingofwhich

April 9, 2014

Blind eye? Hmmm not sure. I guess if the WS insists the marriage is so dreadful and only in name, the AP might assume the BS has to know. Otherwise they'd have done something, said something, left maybe....they must be staying for the 'wrong' reasons. But of course the truth isn't that simple.

April 9, 2014

well there is a lot of things that are posted that are repetitive,just different posters,just something I have wondered is all,i mean you just seem to be a little angry about this post,when a lot of post are the same,if I don't like a post or really disagree on it,i just don't respond

Just want to note that I don't understand why you think Hope Shimmers seemed a little angry. Only reason I mention it is because another poster on this thread posted he thought she was offended. I truly didn't see anger or offense registered in any of her posts at all.

She seems to me to be part of the conversation presenting her ideas in a logical, emotionally neutral and intelligent manner.

This is curious to me and I truly wonder about it.

April 9, 2014

DKT3,

This is a generalisation that is certainly not correct in my case.

I have always believed that no-one can be "taken" that doesn't want to be. I believed it before my exH cheated and I still believe it now.
The OW isn't significant per se. She isn't special, just available. If a spouse has it in their mind to cheat they will do so.

I always laid the blame for my husband's choice to cheat right where it belonged - at his feet.

I agree with this I felt the same way He got blamed for his choices and the consequences were his to own. On the other side of that coin she got blamed for her choices and the consequences were hers to own.

April 9, 2014

As many people have said, there is little to be gained from using generalizations. Every situation is unique and everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, including the BS. The fact is, these situations are generally not so black and white.

Yes, many APs lie to the OW/OM and to the BS. Many future fake and talk about a sexless, unhappy marriage that they plan on leaving. Others don't. My xAP never indicated he was leaving his marriage and I never claimed to be leaving mine. We never spoke poorly about our BSs or said we were unhappy in our marriages. In fact, we were very honest about our love for our families and not wanting to hurt them. We also loved each other very much and didn't want to hurt each other.

He has chosen to R with his W and keep his family together which is as it should be. I don't think his W is holding him hostage and I know that he loves her and is devastated for hurting her. But I also know his allegiance to her is about more than his love for her. It's about his children, his home, and his way of life. He talked about his obligation to her and not wanting his children to hate him when they get older. He also would tearfully ask why we couldn't have met each other earlier. He wasn't stringing me along....these weren't lies...this is how he felt. We weren't "cake eating" for 5 long years. We cared for each other very deeply but knew it was an impossible situation. That's not to say I think we were some tragic love story. We were well aware of the destruction that would have been caused if we had left our BSs and that we would have resented each other. Loving each other wasn't a good enough reason to destroy so many lives.

My point is, generalizations about BS and OW are useless. Not every WS lies to the OW and not every OW believes that the AP is "trapped" in their marriage. It is far more complicated than that.

There's a HUGE difference between a single OW/OM and a married one. A lot of times the married AP's have no desire to divorce. Not to sound rude here, but I always thought the term "cake eating" referred to someone who has affairs with no intention of leaving the M

Sign In

why do some ow think this...?

Recommended Posts

cocorico

LearningToMoveOn

janedoe67

AlwaysGrowing

janedoe67

uneek74

AlwaysGrowing

janedoe67

Hope Shimmers

Furious

Livingeachday

Patna

Tullyseptember

sidney2718

sidney2718

sidney2718

gettingstronger

peaksandvalleys

snappytomcat

Speakingofwhich

Speakingofwhich

waterwoman

Speakingofwhich

peaksandvalleys

violet1

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...