why do some ow think this...?

April 9, 2014

You are neither a BS or an OW? Then how do you know what feelings WS's or OW or BS's have? It's an honest question.

I'm sorry, but you can't possibly understand if you haven't experienced it yourself. You have to live it to really get what it's like. Seeing it in friends and family members is not the same thing. Almost everyone has lived it that way. My opinion.

My family and best friends, i have been the shoulder for both sides, too many times and I am not saying it is the same. Lived with the destruction and pain and nights were endless bottles were emptied, holes in the walls.. .you name it. My questions are based on what i know and have helped my friends and family get through whether BS/WS.

There are also many WS and BS here who offer their opinions from the opposite side not knowing the other but valid just the same.

"Is there one of you who is going to say that you don't want a doctor to treat you for cancer unless he himself has had cancer?" - Milton Friedman

April 9, 2014

I'm sorry, but you have posted to me before and you know nothing of my particular situation, so your generalizations don't apply here. Thanks anyway

I replied in general to a general comment you made about people saying emotions and feeling in affairs aren't real.

No one truely knows anyones situation here. What we have is a small part of one side of the story. I have an analytical mind so I'm into hard facts and numbers. Humans follow human nature, with that being the case we can gauge situation based on human nature, in general of course. As hard as we try we simply can't fit everyone in that damn box.

April 9, 2014

hope,its not an ow/vs bs ive never thought that way,if your read my previous threads,i feel a lot of compassion for the ow(except the one in my situation,did at first but she went phsycho on me)it was just an observation,i know some ow might think that somehow the bs has black mailed the ws to stay in the marriage,and I know some say this cause they are hurting,and hopeful that the wh will eventually go back to them,in my own situation,my husband never gave the ow a second thought,i know that's horrible to say,and I did say that to him right after dday,i just like to learn more about affairs,i never experienced such a betrayal.
honestly that's all this thread is about,knowledge is power,like someone else said we are reconciling,but not yet reconciled,he didn't get off the hook that easily,and I told him it might take a few years,and he said he will make it up to me,even if it takes him the rest of his life,which is why I love him,things are getting better daily.
and another thing hope,i do enjoy reading your comments,you have a gift of being able to word things perfectly,unfortunately I dont

Okay, thank you snappytomcat.

To answer your original question, I think that some OW think as they do because that's what they are told. I think sometimes the WS cares about both the OW and the BS so much that he does everything he can not to hurt either. (Or, he's just too much of a coward to tell the truth and say it was all a lie). So he will tell the OW that he has to stay in his M because of his kids, his W, finances, his job, everyone's health, or just because the sky is blue.

I am not sure why that is a question - I think it's well-documented that WS's say that to AP's throughout the A and when it is over... don't you? So I don't understand why it would be a puzzle as to why AP's believe it.

Similarly, I think sometimes the WS will underplay the significance or details of the A to the BS because he doesn't want to hurt her any more than he already has and he wants to stay. (Genders reversed as applicable) I know for a fact that my ex-MM did this to his W, and I have read similar posts from WS's.

April 9, 2014

I have read numerous threads by some ow(I know not all think this)but a lot do,that if the wh,leaves them to work on the marriage,they think somehow either the bs,has them held hostage some how,either financially,or the kids,the house etc etc.
well in my situation we lost our home during the economy crash,we rent now,we haave no debt,my car is paid for so is his,so is the motorcycle,and our kids are older,and on there own,i can provide for myself financially,it would be hard,but iam an independent woman,he didn't need me,and I definitely didn't need him,but when dday came and the sh*t hit the fan,he begged for reconciliation,because he loves me,and never stopped,even when he fu**ed up royaly,just a rant I guess

I believe that a lot of single OW's (I emphasize single because I think it's different when both AP's are married) get sucked in by the lies the MM tells. They believe the marriage is sexless, dead, the couple is living like brother and sister, etc. When D Day happens and the OW is thrown under the bus, it's less painful to be in denial and think the BS is trapping the WS with history, kids, and finances. In a different way, the OW gets blind sided like the BS does. Yes, the OW knows the man is married, but she honestly believes he's planning divorce. She believes the M is sexless and that she's sexually exclusive with the MM. When D Day comes and the MM ends the A, the OW is crushed. This is just my opinion based on various threads and articles I've read over the years.

April 9, 2014

I'm sorry, but you have posted to me before and you know nothing of my particular situation, so your generalizations don't apply here. Thanks anyway

Thinking about it, you tell me... i have one other thread which was the original reason i found LS in googling a question and landed here. I decided to post my own story for which I went through myself with my wife but I don't consider myself to be BS in hindsight... maybe.. technically. I believe my wifes actions to be spiteful... without T/J read my other thread and let me know.

April 9, 2014

I replied in general to a general comment you made about people saying emotions and feeling in affairs aren't real.

No one truely knows anyones situation here. What we have is a small part of one side of the story. I have an analytical mind so I'm into hard facts and numbers. Humans follow human nature, with that being the case we can gauge situation based on human nature, in general of course. As hard as we try we simply can't fit everyone in that damn box.

I don't think I made any general (or otherwise) statements about emotions and feelings in affairs not being real. If anything I would have said the opposite.

I am analytical, too. And of course we don't have all sides or all details of a story, but still, the same tired statements generalizing about the OW's position in an A and the WS's position in an A do not apply to individual situations and just make most people want to hit the 'delete' button when reading it... Just sayin'.

April 9, 2014

Are you saying and maybe i am misunderstanding, that men have a different set of rules for an affair and have less emotionally vested in it vs women?

Yes, that is what I'm saying. The evidence is in the numbers women are four times more likely to leave the marriage for an AP.

Women tend to create more damage in the marriage because they have a need to justify having an affair. "I'm a good person, so if I'm interested in OM it has to be because I'm not happy in my marriage" in doing this it leads her to rewrite the history of the marriage, things that were small issues become huge issues.

Men simply don't have the need to do that, they (for the most part) can have affairs without it impacting the way he feels about his wife. This is something that I have found women have a hard time understanding.

April 9, 2014

Okay, thank you snappytomcat.

To answer your original question, I think that some OW think as they do because that's what they are told. I think sometimes the WS cares about both the OW and the BS so much that he does everything he can not to hurt either. (Or, he's just too much of a coward to tell the truth and say it was all a lie). So he will tell the OW that he has to stay in his M because of his kids, his W, finances, his job, everyone's health, or just because the sky is blue.

I am not sure why that is a question - I think it's well-documented that WS's say that to AP's throughout the A and when it is over... don't you? So I don't understand why it would be a puzzle as to why AP's believe it.

Similarly, I think sometimes the WS will underplay the significance or details of the A to the BS because he doesn't want to hurt her any more than he already has and he wants to stay. (Genders reversed as applicable) I know for a fact that my ex-MM did this to his W, and I have read similar posts from WS's.[/Quote]
well it was just something that I wanted some clarity on,sorry if it offended you

Edited April 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fixed quote

April 9, 2014

[well it was just something that I wanted some clarity on,sorry if it offended you

It didn't offend me; I just honestly wondered why it was different than everything else that has been posted on the topic.

April 9, 2014

Yes, that is what I'm saying. The evidence is in the numbers women are four times more likely to leave the marriage for an AP.

Women tend to create more damage in the marriage because they have a need to justify having an affair. "I'm a good person, so if I'm interested in OM it has to be because I'm not happy in my marriage" in doing this it leads her to rewrite the history of the marriage, things that were small issues become huge issues.

Men simply don't have the need to do that, they (for the most part) can have affairs without it impacting the way he feels about his wife. This is something that I have found women have a hard time understanding.

From the bolded it sounds like you have more than anecdotal experience - and from your earlier post maybe you have research experience. Do you do research in this area? Would love to see those data that you just quoted. Thanks.

April 9, 2014

It didn't offend me; I just honestly wondered why it was different than everything else that has been posted on the topic.

well there is a lot of things that are posted that are repetitive,just different posters,just something I have wondered is all,i mean you just seem to be a little angry about this post,when a lot of post are the same,if I don't like a post or really disagree on it,i just don't respond

April 9, 2014

I don't think I made any general (or otherwise) statements about emotions and feelings in affairs not being real. If anything I would have said the opposite.

I am analytical, too. And of course we don't have all sides or all details of a story, but still, the same tired statements generalizing about the OW's position in an A and the WS's position in an A do not apply to individual situations and just make most people want to hit the 'delete' button when reading it... Just sayin'.

You seem to really take offence from my opinions. Yet your not hearing my message. Which isn't a shock because they go against your beliefs. We disagree yet I respect your opinion.

I don't know you or your situation, yet if I did I could have predicted that your MM would end up with his wife. Why? Because it happens 91% of the time. Was there a chance that you would or maybe will be in that 9% ? Of course there is

I put the info that I've learned out there for everyone, if its not to your liking then leave it.

In my situation, I don't like to hear that my ex wife and mother of my children is a worthless cheat who isn't deserving of forgiveness. I take the comments for what they are worth to me, not much. Yet I hear them and understand where they come from.

In your writing I've gauged that you are a good person, I believe I've told you that before. Yet I will avoid comments directed at you or on your threads.

April 9, 2014

I guess they believe it because they are told it is so by someone they love. Why wouldn't they? Until my h had the affair I was naive and took thing at face value. It wouldn't have occurred to me to think it was all a tissue of lies, exaggerations and half-truths. LS has removed a great deal of that naivete - for better or worse.

And at the end it maybe helps to see the BS as a sort of marital Cerberus. Emotional damage limitation. It hurts to read it hear sometimes but I can why understand why it gets said.

April 9, 2014

DKT3,

at least at first the BS tend to largely place the blame on the OW/M. Its easier to believe that the WS was taken instead of them having chosen this path themselves.

This is a generalisation that is certainly not correct in my case.

I have always believed that no-one can be "taken" that doesn't want to be. I believed it before my exH cheated and I still believe it now.

The OW isn't significant per se. She isn't special, just available. If a spouse has it in their mind to cheat they will do so.

I always laid the blame for my husband's choice to cheat right where it belonged - at his feet.

April 9, 2014

well there is a lot of things that are posted that are repetitive,just different posters,just something I have wondered is all,i mean you just seem to be a little angry about this post,when a lot of post are the same,if I don't like a post or really disagree on it,i just don't respond

That doesn't seem to be the norm for BS's in terms of responding to posts on the OW/OM forum though (the bolded). So I thought I had just as much right responding here as anyone.

Not angry. And you're right. So many of these threads are just repetitive.

April 9, 2014

DKT3,

This is a generalisation that is certainly not correct in my case.

I have always believed that no-one can be "taken" that doesn't want to be. I believed it before my exH cheated and I still believe it now.
The OW isn't significant per se. She isn't special, just available. If a spouse has it in their mind to cheat they will do so.

I always laid the blame for my husband's choice to cheat right where it belonged - at his feet.

Nor is it in my case. I personally never put much thought into her AP. I believe I blamed myself more then I did her AP at first. Then as I processed it I placed all the blame on her.

April 9, 2014

You seem to really take offence from my opinions. Yet your not hearing my message. Which isn't a shock because they go against your beliefs. We disagree yet I respect your opinion.

I don't take offense from your opinions. Your opinions have no effect on me, and you don't have the first idea of my beliefs - you just think you do, because you have put me in a 'category'.

But you're right - I don't need to hear your message because I've been on this forum for years and have heard it a thousand times before. It isn't a well thought-out message; just a bunch of generalizations. My opinion.

I don't know you or your situation, yet if I did I could have predicted that your MM would end up with his wife. Why? Because it happens 91% of the time. Was there a chance that you would or maybe will be in that 9% ? Of course there is

More statistics without a source.

Percentages are just generalizatons, unless you can apply these directly to the population you are aiming at. That almost never happens, because of many differences between the populations.

If you are going to respond to individuals and offer advice, I think it's wise to get to know the person you are replying to as much as you can (per their posts) as an individual. You just shoot yourself in the foot by saying the same thing over and over to different people, as if they can't find it elsewhere or haven't heard it before. Maybe - just maybe - individual situations merit individual replies.

I put the info that I've learned out there for everyone, if its not to your liking then leave it.

I just happen to think it's fair to others that if you are going to quote statistics and make statements that imply that you have more than anecdotal knowledge of what you are stating, that you then give your sources. Otherwise this is a forum where people give opinions and support to others. That is what a forum is supposed to be - nothing more.

In my situation, I don't like to hear that my ex wife and mother of my children is a worthless cheat who isn't deserving of forgiveness. I take the comments for what they are worth to me, not much. Yet I hear them and understand where they come from.

I can understand your anger, but please don't take it out on strangers. We all have to take posts made here within the appropriate context, but it doesn't mean that every generalization applies to every single person.

In your writing I've gauged that you are a good person, I believe I've told you that before. Yet I will avoid comments directed at you or on your threads.

Thanks; I think you are good person too. And yes, seems like avoiding direct comments might be best if you think so.

April 9, 2014

I don't take offense from your opinions. Your opinions have no effect on me, and you don't have the first idea of my beliefs - you just think you do, because you have put me in a 'category'.

But you're right - I don't need to hear your message because I've been on this forum for years and have heard it a thousand times before. It isn't a well thought-out message; just a bunch of generalizations. My opinion.

More statistics without a source.

Percentages are just generalizatons, unless you can apply these directly to the population you are aiming at. That almost never happens, because of many differences between the populations.

If you are going to respond to individuals and offer advice, I think it's wise to get to know the person you are replying to as much as you can (per their posts) as an individual. You just shoot yourself in the foot by saying the same thing over and over to different people, as if they can't find it elsewhere or haven't heard it before. Maybe - just maybe - individual situations merit individual replies.

I just happen to think it's fair to others that if you are going to quote statistics and make statements that imply that you have more than anecdotal knowledge of what you are stating, that you then give your sources. Otherwise this is a forum where people give opinions and support to others. That is what a forum is supposed to be - nothing more.

I can understand your anger, but please don't take it out on strangers. We all have to take posts made here within the appropriate context, but it doesn't mean that every generalization applies to every single person.

Thanks; I think you are good person too. And yes, seems like avoiding direct comments might be best if you think so.

I could throw links and sources out that would extend this thread to 20 pages, none of which would sway you.

I've never put anyone in a box. I always use tense to show what I'm saying isn't including all, as I did with the comment that got under your skin. If I failed to do that at some point, then I'm sorry.

I believe our disconnect is you hear me saying that you meant nothing to your AP, because you strongly disagree you've discounted every thing I've said. To suggest my comment weren't thought out and misplaced is an insult. From what you've said your AP and his wife weren't together when you started with him, yet he picked her. You say you don't want him yet you hang on and say maybe in 20 years you can be together. Then you say you know it won't happen, and you not SURE YOU would want it. Well what do you want? You say that you know his wife isn't holding him back, yet you say you know he wants more. Then what's stopping you from being with him?

I have noticed that thoughout your writing you often talk about how your AP told his wife that he was in love with you. The fact that you repeat that so often kinda suggests that in some way you felt like you won and wear it as a badge of honor.

I see you as a woman torn, you want him yet you say you don't because its less of a blow to your esteem that he picked her.

This is my last reply directed at you and your situation. I truely hope you find happiness I honestly believe you deserve it. Good luck to you.

April 9, 2014

Maybe you meant it the same way, but I think it's more like this:

The secrecy, the sneaking around, and the taboo enhance the feelings each gets from participating in it. It's not that they want secret, sneaking, taboo lives, (secrecy, sneaking, and taboo are a byproduct of having an affair) and they quickly learn that these things are actually a huge part of the turn on.

It's because I think many people in an AFFAIR would prefer not to have to hide, but they cannot. Im sure too that many of them are not aware that its these 3 things which are feeding the dopamine, not just the AP's prowess in the bed, or pillow talk.

Part of the draw of affairs are the element of it being a secret, the sneaking around, doing the taboo.

Edited April 9, 2014 by fellini

April 9, 2014

I could throw links and sources out that would extend this thread to 20 pages, none of which would sway you.

No, it wouldn't, because I know better. I do research for a living and internet links and articles online are not research. None of that matters unless you are quoting statistics like "91% of the time, MM end up with their wives". That means absolutely less than nothing unless presented in context and you can't do that, so forego the statistics please so that people are not misled.

I see you as a woman torn, you want him yet you say you don't because its less of a blow to your esteem that he picked her.

Actually made me laugh out loud. You know absolutely nothing about me.

This is my last reply directed at you and your situation.

Yay!

I truely hope you find happiness I honestly believe you deserve it. Good luck to you.

You too! Thanks.

April 9, 2014

Point being, while the OW is truely in the "RELATIONSHIP" 9 of 10 times the WH is into the sex or in some cases the companionship but not the relationship. They simply aren't emotionally vested dispite what he tell the OW. DK3: This statement can't be said for all WH. Companionship and relationship go hand in hand. If the A lasted for a few months, I might agree it could be for the sex. However, an A that lasts years. 3 years or more is Not about sex. To say they simply aren't emotionally vested has no validity. How do you measure that?

April 9, 2014

I haven't read every response, and I'm basing my opinion on threads here as I haven't dealt with this in my own life..

An OW believes what the MM tells them. Period. If he says that he is unhappy in his marriage, that's what they believe. And if he is so unhappy, why would he go back? She must be keeping him there..

The BS and OW will never see eye to eye, they have both been painted an entirely different picture of the same person. It isn't even fair to compare.

April 9, 2014

The choice seems simple to me.

A - believe the WH's lies about the marriage - this means the poor fellow is trapped, really loves the OW, and the situation is a tragedy

B - believe the WH regrets the A and wants to reconcile - this means the A really WAS a fantasy, and that is really WAS wrong, and that is pretty tough to face

As someone with experience in doing some very wrong things, I can understand why A would be the more comfortable belief to live in. Choice A means I am part of a tragic love story and not something that was wrong.

April 9, 2014

As someone with experience in doing some very wrong things, I can understand why A would be the more comfortable belief to live in. Choice A means I am part of a tragic love story and not something that was wrong.

Also as someone who has a lot of experience doing some very wrong things, choosing your Choice A isn't about comfort and trying to deliberately avoid being part of something wrong. That's what your post sounded like.

Sometimes, people actually believe the things they are told by the person they love. Wow, what a concept... kind of like you, I would bet.

April 9, 2014

I can understand why A would be the more comfortable belief to live in. Choice A means I am part of a tragic love story and not something that was wrong.

I think this nails it for both BS and AP. We all tend to believe what we WANT to believe, what makes us comfortable in a pretty uncomfortable situation. There's an amount of naiveté on both sides, which is hard for either side to sympathize with. As a BH, I'm always floored by how shocked APs are that a WS (usually a WH) could cause them hurt by lying to them, deciding to R, etc. But I think it goes back to the above.

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