BW & H laughing at the OW?

[starchild699]

Raena wrote: <One other point I'd like to make is that if it is only the BS making these statements about you in social media then don't assume they are both laughing about you. It may be that SHE is laughing about you because of what you did to her as a way to prove to the world that her husband made a mistake and to make herself feel better. Truthfully, she may not be laughing about you at all. She might be writing that stuff out of pain. The pain that your affair caused her. >

 

I couldn't agree more. I acknowledge the catalyst was BS pain, and that I helped to create. To clarify, the mockery and 'laughing' at my expense was probably not obvious to the casual observer outside their inner circle (the A and dday were not publicly outed). It was done more in the vein of broadcasting their reconciliation with tongue in cheek banter aimed at knocking me down. (I acknowledge this was probably a coping mechanism for her.)

 

My post was in reply to MissBee who questioned 'How an AP/xOW would actually KNOW they're being laughed at?" In my case, the PA lasted six years (the friendship longer), families were entwined, two of our children were young when it all started and remain close friends today. Yes, I'm aware I didn't/don't have to look or search them out.

 

Eventually I did 'block and walk', when the pain outweighed the gain, but following a long-term affair which ended abruptly, 'unraveling' the many layers has been a lengthy process. You don't turn off feelings for someone (including for their children who you were around daily for 8+ years and genuinely care about) with the flip of a switch. A year out from dday, their family was struck with a medical crisis which kept me further engaged checking for information and updates.

I'm far enough along in my healing that I can see ALL sides now with more clarity compassion and forgiveness.

Edited April 12, 2014 by starchild699

[Raena]

Raena wrote: <One other point I'd like to make is that if it is only the BS making these statements about you in social media then don't assume they are both laughing about you. It may be that SHE is laughing about you because of what you did to her as a way to prove to the world that her husband made a mistake and to make herself feel better. Truthfully, she may not be laughing about you at all. She might be writing that stuff out of pain. The pain that your affair caused her. >

 

I couldn't agree more. I acknowledge the catalyst was BS pain, and that I helped to create. To clarify, the mockery and 'laughing' at my expense was probably not obvious to the casual observer outside their inner circle (the A and dday were not publicly outed). It was done more in the vein of broadcasting their reconciliation with tongue in cheek banter aimed at knocking me down. (I acknowledge this was probably a coping mechanism for her.)

 

My post was in reply to MissBee who questioned 'How an AP/xOW would actually KNOW they're being laughed at?" In my case, the PA lasted six years (the friendship longer), families were entwined, two of our children were young when it all started and remain close friends today. Yes, I'm aware I didn't/don't have to look or search them out.

 

Immediately following dday I did 'block and walk', but following a long-term affair which ended abruptly, 'unraveling' the many layers has been a lengthy process. You don't turn off feelings for someone (including for their children who you were around daily for 8+ years and genuinely cared about) with the flip of a switch. A year out from dday, their family was struck with a medical crisis which kept me further engaged checking for information and updates.

I'm far enough along in my healing that I can see ALL sides now with more clarity compassion and forgiveness.

 

It's good that you are seeing all sides of it. That's one of the hardest parts of healing I think. Being able to recognize your role and have some compassion and understanding for the other people involved says a lot about who you are and who you want to be.

 

It's incredibly difficult to move on and let things go when you are continually involved in their lives. One way or another, you are going to have to find a way to separate yourself from it. Otherwise, you will stunt your own movement forward in healing.

 

I understand that it isn't easy to stop the feelings you had. As a BS, I get that too. It's similar for me as well. I go through bouts of depression like you wouldn't believe. He's gone, he's with her now and even though I don't want him back and I made him leave, it still hurts. It hurts every time I look at our son. It hurts every time I look around this house that we hunted for and decorated together. It hurts every time I look around and see all the places we used to go, think about the things we used to do together. It hurts every time something major happens in my life and I realize I can't tell him. He'd listen if I did, but he doesn't really care about me or our son anymore. He'd rather we just disappear off the face of the planet because seeing us reminds him of what he did and that is painful for him too. It isn't easy all around. I wish he had handled things differently. Had he ended things with me first and THEN moved on to another relationship the dynamics would be completely different. But he didn't. He cheated instead. Lied straight to my face over and over again. Lied to her too. And now the things she says and the way she talks to me... it's just disgusting.

 

It's painful all around. Walking away from a relationship is always hard, especially when you weren't the one who wanted it to end... or it didn't end the way you hoped.

 

You have to let go... ignore them... move away if you can. Get away from them and the whole dynamic. Don't get yourself involved in what is going on in their lives. Stop looking at her social media, period. It's what I had to do too. Block, ignore and move on. No excuses. (I'm telling you this as much as I'm telling myself, honestly)

[MissBee]

So what about an OW who has invested years - six years in my case, that makes it real, every day every night contact, several times, what relationship has he had with her for six years? In my case NONE, just going through the motions. He has spent more time with me. So that is not real???? Invested, you talk of investment like you pay a deposit an that is yours for life. Get real.

 

Who is to say what is real.

 

I mean he can go home, but what is that? Who is to say what is a real relationship

 

 

I have never once brought up the concept of real

 

The point I was underscoring, which you've missed, is that an OW gets involved with a "high risk" man, a man currently married to someone else. She had a choice about getting involved, especially in the cases where it is no secret that he is married. Your 6 year investment came AFTER the fact of knowing he was married right? That is the difference between a BS and OW -- BS usually marries a man not currently cheating and had years of a NON-AFFAIR open relationship and shared life....an OW gets involved by choice with a man currently married and chooses a secret half-relationship and invests in it. Do you not see the difference between your single bf proposing to you and you marrying him, having his kids, being a part of his family THEN he cheats and why you might take him back versus you meet a man who is married, with children, a family and tries to date you on the low? I don't think I need to "be real".... it is very real and very obvious by the fact that so many OW here end up hurt, that dating a KNOWN cheater is higher risk and seems more of an illogical investment than dating a single man who you couldn't have predicted would cheat on you years later.

 

We're all humans and we all make mistakes and sometimes our judgment is poor especially in matters of romance....I too can admit that investing in a KNOWN CHEATER was a bad idea. What puzzles me is when an OW, who is currently experiencing the hurt and drama of an A, still wants to argue that somehow investing in this known liar wasn't a HUGE part of the problem and that that has nothing to do with her current position....that the fact that he is a MM and cheating is nowhere at all relevant to the story, when it has EVERYTHING to do with it. That's why most of us, if it comes around again, would say HELL NO to dating a married man, as we now KNOW that it was not smart to have invested years into a situation with this NEON RED FLAG! Blaming it all on the MM (and worse the BS) is a cop out, as part of the blame has to be on us for going against better sense. In regular dating smart people look for red flags....your potential bf being a married man cheating is as big a red flag as you can get! No, I don't believe that one should be crucified for having believed he would leave or it was different, but a part of growth is also maybe realizing where you sold yourself the illusion too and went against your better judgment in that investment. That's where growth is. Blaming everyone else, and even people irrelevant to it, is one stage but taking responsibility for your own mistakes is another step in growing.

Edited April 12, 2014 by MissBee

[BHsigh]

To be fair, xMM eventually deactivated his social media (while conversely BS switched her settings to 'public'), thus some of the more hurtful exchanges disappeared (at least temporarily). Whether he deactivated to spare me additional pain, I don't know (the A was six years). Someday I expect he will reactivate his account to re-engage with the online world and I may be emotionally triggered again, but hopefully I can smile and wish them both well.

You might not feel as much empathy as before, but I do appreciate your comments.

 

While I don't know your whole story, I can't say anything about empathy for you as far as the affair goes, but how you were treated by the exMM? Yes, I still have empathy for you for that. And for the long running taunting from both of them. I would expect the BS to dish out some lumps, she was very hurt after all, but that was still too much.

[BHsigh]

Raena wrote: <One other point I'd like to make is that if it is only the BS making these statements about you in social media then don't assume they are both laughing about you. It may be that SHE is laughing about you because of what you did to her as a way to prove to the world that her husband made a mistake and to make herself feel better. Truthfully, she may not be laughing about you at all. She might be writing that stuff out of pain. The pain that your affair caused her. >

 

I couldn't agree more. I acknowledge the catalyst was BS pain, and that I helped to create. To clarify, the mockery and 'laughing' at my expense was probably not obvious to the casual observer outside their inner circle (the A and dday were not publicly outed). It was done more in the vein of broadcasting their reconciliation with tongue in cheek banter aimed at knocking me down. (I acknowledge this was probably a coping mechanism for her.)

 

My post was in reply to MissBee who questioned 'How an AP/xOW would actually KNOW they're being laughed at?" In my case, the PA lasted six years (the friendship longer), families were entwined, two of our children were young when it all started and remain close friends today. Yes, I'm aware I didn't/don't have to look or search them out.

 

Eventually I did 'block and walk', when the pain outweighed the gain, but following a long-term affair which ended abruptly, 'unraveling' the many layers has been a lengthy process. You don't turn off feelings for someone (including for their children who you were around daily for 8+ years and genuinely care about) with the flip of a switch. A year out from dday, their family was struck with a medical crisis which kept me further engaged checking for information and updates.

I'm far enough along in my healing that I can see ALL sides now with more clarity compassion and forgiveness.

 

I have even more empathy for you now, you acknowledge that you were part of the catalyst for her pain, and you've learned and grown. And most of all, you're not making excuses.

 

It's tough to lose people close to you, and I'm sorry for you for that.

 

But you sound like you came through it all and turned out to be a good person.

[gettingstronger]

I think there is a huge difference between my husband and I laying in our bed talking/laughing about the crazy stuff our OW has said and done- and the outright taunting and public humiliation some of these posters describe-

 

I have to agree, I would not feel good about me if I got to the point where I was taunting or publicly humiliating anyone no matter how hurt/upset I was or how much I felt the other person deserved it-

[cocorico]

 

The big difference as I said is that...at least the BS usually has been with the MM for YEARS before the cheating occurred and had YEARS of love and memories, kids, vacations etc.

 

 

...or, conversely, the BS has her own history of being a WS, of having used the now-WS as an AP to help her exit her M to her BS, has a long and consistent history of belittling marital fidelity and of making it clear she felt not one iota of guilt for her own treatment of her BS. So, why would anyone believe she cared about either partner being faithful? Why would anyone think she believed it mattered? On what basis would she assume her fAP was a paragon of marital fidelity when she'd previously stated that this was something she neither sought nor valued - and something she had herself not practised? if you make a virtue of infidelity to justify your own behaviour! how can you then turn around and hold it against someone else?

 

Similarly, if a BS thinks it was "cruel" and disgusting of her WS and his lover to share intimate details about her M, and her, or to laugh at her, while they were bonding and shoring up their R, how can she feel OK about doing the same thing to the OW? If it's wrong, it's wrong - it doesn't matter who is on the receiving end; and if it's acceptable, it's acceptable whichever way.

 

I really don't get this double standard, that excuses any and everything a BS does, but decries and despises an OW for the exact same behaviours. It's either on - for everyone - or it's not. Morality is not some kind of movable goalpost depending on what side you're on. That's hypocrisy, not morality.

[cocorico]

Duplicate.

 

.

Edited April 13, 2014 by cocorico
Duplicate post

[janedoe67]

...or, conversely, the BS has her own history of being a WS, of having used the now-WS as an AP to help her exit her M to her BS, has a long and consistent history of belittling marital fidelity and of making it clear she felt not one iota of guilt for her own treatment of her BS. So, why would anyone believe she cared about either partner being faithful? Why would anyone think she believed it mattered? On what basis would she assume her fAP was a paragon of marital fidelity when she'd previously stated that this was something she neither sought nor valued - and something she had herself not practised? if you make a virtue of infidelity to justify your own behaviour! how can you then turn around and hold it against someone else?

 

Similarly, if a BS thinks it was "cruel" and disgusting of her WS and his lover to share intimate details about her M, and her, or to laugh at her, while they were bonding and shoring up their R, how can she feel OK about doing the same thing to the OW? If it's wrong, it's wrong - it doesn't matter who is on the receiving end; and if it's acceptable, it's acceptable whichever way.

 

I really don't get this double standard, that excuses any and everything a BS does, but decries and despises an OW for the exact same behaviours. It's either on - for everyone - or it's not. Morality is not some kind of movable goalpost depending on what side you're on. That's hypocrisy, not morality.

 

Let's just lay it out. Character is only required of someone if ev eryone ELSE involved is showing character, correct? I do not have to have character if someone else doesn't have character. correct? MY morals, values, and honor are dependent upon what someone else has or hasn't done, so as long as they are imperfect too, I'm golden.

 

Correct?

[Raena]

...or, conversely, the BS has her own history of being a WS, of having used the now-WS as an AP to help her exit her M to her BS, has a long and consistent history of belittling marital fidelity and of making it clear she felt not one iota of guilt for her own treatment of her BS. So, why would anyone believe she cared about either partner being faithful? Why would anyone think she believed it mattered? On what basis would she assume her fAP was a paragon of marital fidelity when she'd previously stated that this was something she neither sought nor valued - and something she had herself not practised? if you make a virtue of infidelity to justify your own behaviour! how can you then turn around and hold it against someone else?

 

Similarly, if a BS thinks it was "cruel" and disgusting of her WS and his lover to share intimate details about her M, and her, or to laugh at her, while they were bonding and shoring up their R, how can she feel OK about doing the same thing to the OW? If it's wrong, it's wrong - it doesn't matter who is on the receiving end; and if it's acceptable, it's acceptable whichever way.

 

I really don't get this double standard, that excuses any and everything a BS does, but decries and despises an OW for the exact same behaviours. It's either on - for everyone - or it's not. Morality is not some kind of movable goalpost depending on what side you're on. That's hypocrisy, not morality.

 

No one is excusing anything... what you described doesn't excuse the behavior of the next OW in that situation. Besides all that... didn't you go writing an entire essay explaining to all of us on here that if two people cheat to be together then when they go off into the sunset, happily married in their blissful little world, that they should then not bother to worry about whether or not their spouse would ever cheat?

 

What you are saying is that because the BS in this situation made poor choices of her own then it's perfectly acceptable for her husband to cheat and for her husband's OW to think it's ok for him to cheat because the BS cheated to be with him.

 

It's a twisted triangle you are describing. Her behavior was unacceptable in her previous marriage and her husband's behavior as well as his OW's behavior in the next instance was just as unacceptable. Only in math do two wrongs make a right.

 

This whole story sounds more like the current OW trying to justify her reasoning for being involved in an affair in the first place when the reality is... if the MM is so unhappy in his marriage he should have left it instead of carrying on in an affair. It's that simple.

 

It doesn't really matter what the BS did in her previous relationships... what the current MM and OW are doing is WRONG. It's not a double standard... it's WRONG to have an affair and it's WRONG to use the BS's previous affairs as an excuse to have another affair.

 

I mean follow your own logic here... a woman cheats to be with a man who then cheats on her BECAUSE she cheated to be with him (my head is spinning just trying to wrap my head around this). So then conversely, when the husband remarries his new wife who used to be the OW should then feel it's ok to cheat on him because he cheated to be with her. In that case, this sordid story could go on and on with everyone using the excuse that the previous person cheated so why shouldn't I do it do... everyone's doing it... why not me too.

 

So ridiculous.

 

DON'T CHEAT! It's that frigging simple! Then there would be NO need for any of this convoluted baloney.

[cocorico]

I mean follow your own logic here... a woman cheats to be with a man who then cheats on her BECAUSE she cheated to be with him (my head is spinning just trying to wrap my head around this). So then conversely, when the husband remarries his new wife who used to be the OW should then feel it's ok to cheat on him because he cheated to be with her. In that case, this sordid story could go on and on with everyone using the excuse that the previous person cheated so why shouldn't I do it do... everyone's doing it... why not me too.

 

 

huh? Who claimed that he "cheated" on her *because* she cheated on her first H? While someone else's actions can enable or constrain one, its a bit of a stretch to claim that someone else pulls the strings and *makes* you do something - especially something you might otherwise not have done.

 

The thread was about BS who choose to believe something despite all the evidence to the contrary, such as a BS who believes that a WS really felt nothing for the OW.

 

In the example I gave, you have someone who spends both of their entire Ms dissing monogamy and sexual fidelity and cheerleading for As - glorying in their own past as a WS, and actively enabling their friends to cheat on their Hs. This person then professes to have been blindsided when she discovers that her second H took her at her word (and deed) and treated monogamy and sexual fidelity with the disdain she had argued it ought to be treated.

 

My point - given the public stand she took on M / sexual fidelity, how could she reasonably believe that anyone would think she held a different view, and that she expected other people to respect her M or be sexually exclusive with her?

[Raena]

huh? Who claimed that he "cheated" on her *because* she cheated on her first H? While someone else's actions can enable or constrain one, its a bit of a stretch to claim that someone else pulls the strings and *makes* you do something - especially something you might otherwise not have done.

 

The thread was about BS who choose to believe something despite all the evidence to the contrary, such as a BS who believes that a WS really felt nothing for the OW.

 

In the example I gave, you have someone who spends both of their entire Ms dissing monogamy and sexual fidelity and cheerleading for As - glorying in their own past as a WS, and actively enabling their friends to cheat on their Hs. This person then professes to have been blindsided when she discovers that her second H took her at her word (and deed) and treated monogamy and sexual fidelity with the disdain she had argued it ought to be treated.

 

My point - given the public stand she took on M / sexual fidelity, how could she reasonably believe that anyone would think she held a different view, and that she expected other people to respect her M or be sexually exclusive with her?

 

Because WHO CARES what her view is or how she treated her relationships prior? How does the BS's view have any bearing whatsoever on what the OW in this situation is doing? This ow went into an affair using the excuse that the wife cheated in prior relationships so she MUST be OK with the idea of her current husband cheating. Obviously she (BS) wasn't if she was blindsided by what he did.

 

Is this a real story? Did this really happen or are you just making up some random story? If it's true, how does the OW know for a fact that the BS did all that you described? Where did the OW learn this information from? If it's from the lying cheating husband then chances are pretty good the whole truth wasn't told or the OW just wants to believe it's true to justify her behavior.

 

The important part that you keep skimming right past is... cheating is WRONG. It doesn't matter what the reasoning, it's WRONG! It doesn't matter what the BS is doing... it's WRONG! If this BS really behaved this way, then why in the world would the husband bother to stay in the relationship? Why not just divorce and be done with it? Again... two wrong do not make a right.

[cocorico]

Because WHO CARES what her view is or how she treated her relationships prior? How does the BS's view have any bearing whatsoever on what the OW in this situation is doing? This ow went into an affair using the excuse that the wife cheated in prior relationships so she MUST be OK with the idea of her current husband cheating. Obviously she (BS) wasn't if she was blindsided by what he did.

 

No. This (f)OW went into the A because she wanted to. She was just gobsmacked later at the BW's hypocritical response.

 

 

Is this a real story? Did this really happen or are you just making up some random story? If it's true, how does the OW know for a fact that the BS did all that you described? Where did the OW learn this information from? If it's from the lying cheating husband then chances are pretty good the whole truth wasn't told or the OW just wants to believe it's true to justify her behavior.

 

Many different sources, including:

1) a file of ancient letters left behind when she "cleared" the house, that she had written to her then-AP while in her first M, her AP's (rather briefer) responses and her then-H's letters to both

2) emails sent by her to her (second) S2BXH, during the D.

3) things reported by others - former colleagues, friends, family - that back up what was written

4) questions asked by the kids

5) things overheard when she screamed at him on the phone

 

 

The important part that you keep skimming right past is... cheating is WRONG. It doesn't matter what the reasoning, it's WRONG! It doesn't matter what the BS is doing... it's WRONG! If this BS really behaved this way, then why in the world would the husband bother to stay in the relationship? Why not just divorce and be done with it? Again... two wrong do not make a right.

 

He did divorce her. He remained in the M until the kids were old enough to be able to face another split without too much trauma. As soon as they could handle it, he (and the kids) moved out. We have been happily M now for many years.

[BHsigh]

Wrong thread, oops

Edited April 14, 2014 by BHsigh

[Raena]

No. This (f)OW went into the A because she wanted to. She was just gobsmacked later at the BW's hypocritical response.

 

 

 

 

Many different sources, including:

1) a file of ancient letters left behind when she "cleared" the house, that she had written to her then-AP while in her first M, her AP's (rather briefer) responses and her then-H's letters to both

2) emails sent by her to her (second) S2BXH, during the D.

3) things reported by others - former colleagues, friends, family - that back up what was written

4) questions asked by the kids

5) things overheard when she screamed at him on the phone

 

 

 

 

He did divorce her. He remained in the M until the kids were old enough to be able to face another split without too much trauma. As soon as they could handle it, he (and the kids) moved out. We have been happily M now for many years.

 

/sigh Cocorico you are never going to get it. Period. The bolded portion explains it all. It really does. For some reason you don't seem to think that having an affair with this man was the wrong thing to do. All of the other stuff makes not one whit of difference. You just admitted that you knowingly got into an affair with this man because you wanted to. You'll never see my point of view that this is WRONG. If it was that bad, he should have ended the marriage BEFORE getting involved with you. I still don't see the logic in why bother having an affair first and THEN leave and I still don't see how her behavior in any way justifies what you and her husband did.

 

None of it makes sense and I still stand by my original statement... affairs are wrong. I've only heard your side of the story but I'll bet there is more to it than you are explaining. They say there are always 3 sides to every story... his, hers and then the truth.

[Fluttershy]

For some the ends will justify the means no matter how dirty they got or how many people were hurt or there having been a right way to go about it. They will never own what they did was wrong and will twist and justify it until the cow's come home. And sadly they will encourage others to think and feel the same as them by offering their own sad and pathetic story as a beacon of light. Anything to try to convince themselves and others they are happy and did right.

[MissBee]

...or, conversely, the BS has her own history of being a WS, of having used the now-WS as an AP to help her exit her M to her BS, has a long and consistent history of belittling marital fidelity and of making it clear she felt not one iota of guilt for her own treatment of her BS. So, why would anyone believe she cared about either partner being faithful? Why would anyone think she believed it mattered? On what basis would she assume her fAP was a paragon of marital fidelity when she'd previously stated that this was something she neither sought nor valued - and something she had herself not practised? if you make a virtue of infidelity to justify your own behaviour! how can you then turn around and hold it against someone else?

 

Similarly, if a BS thinks it was "cruel" and disgusting of her WS and his lover to share intimate details about her M, and her, or to laugh at her, while they were bonding and shoring up their R, how can she feel OK about doing the same thing to the OW? If it's wrong, it's wrong - it doesn't matter who is on the receiving end; and if it's acceptable, it's acceptable whichever way.

 

I really don't get this double standard, that excuses any and everything a BS does, but decries and despises an OW for the exact same behaviours. It's either on - for everyone - or it's not. Morality is not some kind of movable goalpost depending on what side you're on. That's hypocrisy, not morality.

 

That isn't the converse of the situation I'm speaking of .

 

My response was in reference to Hope Shimmer's notion that the OW believes the MM because she loves him and wants to believe him and he's telling her a different story than what he is telling his BS. I added that for the BS who reconciles with the MM her reasons for doing so are often similar to the OW's, she loves him and has had a life with him and a history to consider and he is telling her something different than what he is telling the OW as well.

 

The BS who doesn't care or is currently cheating or has cheated isn't the frame of reference here at all. There are those BSs clearly, but I wasn't speaking of such BSs, but a BS who, like the OW, actually loves this man and was faithful to him.

 

I was not decrying OW and glorifying BS. Quite the opposite actually. What I was doing was actually pointing out where OW and BS are opposite sides of the same coin with the EXCEPTION, as that post pointed out, that the BS often married the WS when he and she were single and in love, and they build a life and she hasn't willing walked into a bad situation, whereas the OW walks eyes wide open often into an affair with a man whom she knows is married. You often draw very harsh distinctions between the two yourself, with the BS consistently being demonized, even in this example you're giving. I don't tend to do that and really try to have a balanced outlook and wasn't pitting one against the other but showing where their reasons for what they do converge.

 

Some OW are making BSs out to be stupid for reconciling or at best are puzzled at it and I was simply showing that it's not any more stupid or puzzling than it is for an OW who has no kids, no history, no nothing but meets a married man and decides to entangle herself in an affair with him....in fact that situation, one could argue, might be more nonsensical. Most people have experienced attachment, even an unhealthy one, as hard to break, heck that's why many OW are here. A BS is usually very attached to her spouse and their life together and thus her reconciling is wrapped up in that. An OW likewise is attached to the MM and falls in love as well, but again, the difference was that she jumped into a high risk situation, esp if she knew full well he was married, and her falling in love happened because she chose to take that step with a MM. Unlike BS she was handed the "Surgeon General's Warning" so to speak, and chose to take that risk anyway,whereas the BSs situation surrounding choosing her husband are often very different.

 

For BSs who were the OW to their WS before they married, they are even more similar to the OW in that they also took a chance and married a man with whom they experienced his capacity to cheat and who was "higher risk", certainly my own mom I would say married a man who gave every indication when they were dating that he would possibly have commitment issues. But for other BSs, they married a single man and a man whom they saw nothing to make them believe he would cheat, so if for years there was no cheating, but the ups and downs of marriage and life, it makes sense why they'd give him a chance.

 

I also said in my initial post that if you get into an affair expect it to be messy and the rules of what is right and hypocritical become very convoluted especially when the affair partners are the ones demanding certain levels of respect from the BS....it's like huhhh you guys conspired and cheated but now are high and mighty and are demanding that people respect that decision and treat you well? Come on now, don't back someone into a corner and then expect them to play nicely with you. In the case where the BS wasn't cheating before or what have you especially, the ones in the affair "threw the first punch" so to speak and when you do that, you cannot also demand how hard and where the other person retaliates...that level of hubris is insane. If OW and MM were laughing together about BS and making a mockery of her, then why can't she do the same to them? I think if everyone would do what they'd have done to them then none of this would be an issue...but since many OW say they aren't really involved in a moral dilemma with aiding an affair and since MM finds his own excuse, then clearly the do unto others goes out the window.I think we're saying similar things here. In any event most OW will not know if the MM and BS are doing this unless they go out of their way to rub it into their face. Also, unfortunately, no BS on earth is going to "respect the private relationship"of her spouse and his exOW....

 

A BS isn't excused from every and all things (one of my posts said I think it is indeed tacky to post about laughing at the OW and I wouldn't do it) and the privacy of the affair relationship is not about morals. Affairs are asymmetrical and most of society will see the marriage relationship as the primary and legitimate one and when it comes on to reconciling there is little space to "respect" the A relationship. That's just how the cookie crumbles. If the MM chooses to be with OW in the end then that relationship will (eventually) get the privacy and respect and the exBS doesn't have a right to know anything about it...but if MM chooses not to be with OW and reconcile then often in reconciling he and his BS will have a level of transparency that cannot continue to make the affair relationship something secret and special. This is common sense and to expect differently is fine but one will continuously be frustrated as it won't happen.

Edited April 14, 2014 by MissBee

[snappytomcat]

I don't even know why it matters,what a husband and wife do,if they want to laugh at the ow,then so be it,is it cruel?not as cruel as knowingly sleeping with a married man,its actually none of the ow business,and also non of their business if they want to R

[MissBee]

I don't even know why it matters,what a husband and wife do,if they want to laugh at the ow,then so be it,is it cruel?not as cruel as knowingly sleeping with a married man,its actually none of the ow business,and also non of their business if they want to R

 

I agree in the sense that: is it tacky for MM and BS to mock OW on social media? Yes.

 

If these messages are simply "clues" or a "private joke" posted online for the OW's benefit, yes it's petty, but at the end of the day OW is NOT at all obligated to be friends with MM and BS on social media and therefore is not being cruelly subjected to anything she hasn't chosen to look at. If MM and BS are not making flyers and posting it around town, aren't emailing the OW, calling her, texting her or showing up at her door to laugh at her but laugh in the privacy of their own bedrooms or post subliminal FB messages that OW doesn't have to see...then it's on the OW to avoid it versus expect them not to do it.

 

This is in regular breakups as well. As I said, I had to block and delete my single ex because he would post things on FB for my benefit. They weren't necessarily cruel things but of course, still having feelings for him and having him get a new gf 2 weeks after we tried to reconcile and then posting pictures with her and both of them declaring their love on FB was very upsetting to me. In this day and age people use FB to be passive aggressive and to show off on their exes or present a particular picture of their lives. I imagine BS and MM will be no different and unless that couple is just the type with more class or who don't post on social media, you can expect that they might possibly exhibit this kind of behavior. It will no doubt be upsetting to the OW who is now outside of the joke....it's upsetting for anyone who was once with a person and is now on the outside of the "alliance" while they are allied with someone else...be she the OW, BS, exBS or exGF. So all one can do is understand that sometimes this tacky behavior is a part of human nature aided by social media and that's why NC helps...as you don't get caught up in this game with your ex.

[snappytomcat]

I agree in the sense that: is it tacky for MM and BS to mock OW on social media? Yes.

 

If these messages are simply "clues" or a "private joke" posted online for the OW's benefit, yes it's petty, but at the end of the day OW is NOT at all obligated to be friends with MM and BS on social media and therefore is not being cruelly subjected to anything she hasn't chosen to look at. If MM and BS are not making flyers and posting it around town, aren't emailing the OW, calling her, texting her or showing up at her door to laugh at her but laugh in the privacy of their own bedrooms or post subliminal FB messages that OW doesn't have to see...then it's on the OW to avoid it versus expect them not to do it.

 

This is in regular breakups as well. As I said, I had to block and delete my single ex because he would post things on FB for my benefit. They weren't necessarily cruel things but of course, still having feelings for him and having him get a new gf 2 weeks after we tried to reconcile and then posting pictures with her and both of them declaring their love on FB was very upsetting to me. In this day and age people use FB to be passive aggressive and to show off on their exes or present a particular picture of their lives. I imagine BS and MM will be no different and unless that couple is just the type with more class or who don't post on social media, you can expect that they might possibly exhibit this kind of behavior. It will no doubt be upsetting to the OW who is now outside of the joke....it's upsetting for anyone who was once with a person and is now on the outside of the "alliance" while they are allied with someone else...be she the OW, BS, exBS or exGF. So all one can do is understand that sometimes this tacky behavior is a part of human nature aided by social media and that's why NC helps...as you don't get caught up in this game with your ex.

yes miss bee true

I just don't waste space in my head or life on the ow,im a happy person and I don't wish her ill will,and don't think of her at all,as for laughing at ow,we didn't until she went phsycho,actually not at her but her behavior,i actually feel kinda of sorry for her

[gettingstronger]

Exactly snappy, the behavior is the key. Truly this thread started because I dared to mention in another post that our OW went psycho on us and we laughed at her lies. This made the op think of I am not sure what and boom page after page of what is and is not ok for married people to laugh and talk about. There was a time when what our OW thought of our relationship was relevant but that time is long gone so truly what she or any other OW thinks a reconciling couple should or shouldn't do is also irrelevant.

[Raena]

Exactly snappy, the behavior is the key. Truly this thread started because I dared to mention in another post that our OW went psycho on us and we laughed at her lies. This made the op think of I am not sure what and boom page after page of what is and is not ok for married people to laugh and talk about. There was a time when what our OW thought of our relationship was relevant but that time is long gone so truly what she or any other OW thinks a reconciling couple should or shouldn't do is also irrelevant.

 

I couldn't agree with you more! What you do with your husband behind closed doors is your business... not the OW's. I don't know what you laughed about or what she did but it doesn't matter. What you and your husband talk about is YOUR business and no one else's.

[cocorico]

/sigh Cocorico you are never going to get it. Period. The bolded portion explains it all. It really does. For some reason you don't seem to think that having an affair with this man was the wrong thing to do. All of the other stuff makes not one whit of difference. You just admitted that you knowingly got into an affair with this man because you wanted to. You'll never see my point of view that this is WRONG. If it was that bad, he should have ended the marriage BEFORE getting involved with you. I still don't see the logic in why bother having an affair first and THEN leave and I still don't see how her behavior in any way justifies what you and her husband did.

 

Oh I get that you think As are wrong. I just happen to disagree.

 

And yes, I can explain for ages what led to him having an A rather than simply leaving - I have done so many times on these boards - but you'll never understand that. You'll never understand that when someone has been abused for decades, they're not in a position to step back and think logically about a situation in the same way that someone who has never been abused can do. Look up "gas lighting" and you might start to understand. An abused person simply does not realise the options they have, because the abuser has worked so hard over years - or decades - to convince them that they have no options, that they are unlovable, that they are lucky to have the abuser and that only the abuser will ever be able to love them. But you don't want to understand that because it opens the door to thinking that perhaps to someone in that position, simply walking away isn't that easy, and perhaps other options that might present a glimmer of hope might make sense. You don't want to understand that to someone who is so desperate that "right and wrong" have paled against the daily issue of how to survive this day, that bludgeoning them over the head with the simplistic mantra "As are wrong" shuts down understanding rather than helping them to understand how and why they landed up where they landed up, and how to move on sustainably from there.

 

I think that is the big difference between us. I'm about understanding, and then changing the world, whereas you're about sticking your flag in the ground proclaiming wrong from right, and expecting change to happen from that. Good luck, I hope it works for you as well as my choices work for me.

[gettingstronger]

I'm about understanding, and then changing the world,

 

 

Expand on this- how did your A change the world?

[janedoe67]

I'm about understanding, and then changing the world,

 

 

Expand on this- how did your A change the world?

 

It made them feel good. Period. And for those who do not believe in any absolutes of character, feeling good IS the goal.

 

That is one of the definitions of narcissism.

 

And our wonderful "changing world" is getting closer and closer to a world of narcissism every day.

 

Viva la progress! Aren't we proud.