BW & H laughing at the OW?

[Quiet Storm]

A marriage is like a long chapter book. There are many chapters. Some filled with joy and love. Some filled with grief and pain. This is expected in marriage... that's why the vows say "for better for worse". Many couples do stay together during the bad times, because good times will come again.

 

As I have said before, what helps many BS with recovery is to view the affair like an addiction. I understand that as an OW, it would difficult to believe the affair was about the WS's issues and not about love or connection. However, many marriages face problems like addiction, alcohol issues, mental illness, family of origin issues, affairs, etc. Couples that have a "for better for worse" mentality want to work through these problems, and many do it successfully. They accept there will be hard times, but work to move past them.

 

If you think about someone that has an addiction, they lie to their wives, parents, children, etc. They aren't lying to their family out of hate or disrespect- they are lying to protect their addiction. It does no good for an addict's mom to think "If he loved me, he wouldn't lie to me", because it's not about that. Lying & hurting the family is the collateral damage, not a targeted attack or personal betrayal.

 

A BS can take WS words of love to the OW personally, and have thoughts like "He couldn't have loved me if he loved the OW!" "He's a total jerk who betrayed me and I'll never trust him again!" or "What did I do wrong to make him fall out of love with me?" Or the BS can choose to not take it personally, and see it not as a reflection of her or their relationship, but a reflection of the WS and his issues (poor coping skills, bad boundaries, conflict avoidance, family of origin issues, etc.)

 

In other words, BW doesn't make it about the bond between WS & OW vs. the marriage. It's not a competition about who he loves more. It's about WS's issues & getting them resolved, so that he can be a better husband/father/person.

 

Also, most BW do not just believe whatever WS tells her. In most cases, BW is verifying for a long time. BW's choice to reconcile doesn't mean that all is forgiven and he is automatically trusted again. It is a long process. If you had an alcoholic husband... you'd be looking for signs, noticing the smell of his breath, listening for a slurred word or watching for a missed step. The same is true with an affair. The BS is on alert and doesn't trust for a long time. This is a normal part of recovery.

 

As for BW & WH laughing about OW... its an unfortunate thing that happens, but is it realistic for OW to expect respect, kindness & courtesy from BS?

 

Regarding "situations"....

 

During the affair, from OW's point of view, BW and the marriage are the "situation". OW loves MM in spite of his "situation". OW tolerates less than what she deserves because of the "situation". In an active affair, the focus is on OW & WS.. their feelings of love & connection. BW is depersonalized & sometimes even demonized. OW doesn't want to think about her. BW is not a loving wife who is being betrayed... she is an obstacle, MM's mistake (he married the wrong person).

 

The same thing happens once the affair is discovered. The affair becomes a "situation" in their marriage. BW loves MM in spite of it. BW tolerates the reality that her husband had an affair, because she loves him. In recovery, the focus is on BW & WS, their feelings of love & healing. OW is often depersonalized & even demonized, and BW doesn't want to think about her. She isn't a kind woman who was hurt & lied to, she is an obstacle to overcome, MM's mistake.

 

The bottom line is that both women love a selfish man with issues, and both women are trying to deal with their pain the best they can.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Quiet Storm

[KaliLove]

There was definitely nothing funny about the psychotic OW in my marriage. I'm not laughing at her but I do pity her. She wasted at least 10 years of her life pining for my exH..before we met, while we were together, and who knows how long afterwards..and he was never interested in a romantic relationship with her. As scummy as he was, he did love me in his own convoluted way..but he never loved her. She tried to seduce him, buy him, and eventually threaten him into loving her and nothing worked.

 

I did see a picture of her in a local paper a few years ago. She changed her hair to look like mine. Kind of creepy...

[gettingstronger]

Yes, we did.

 

She forwarded me voicemails from my husband that she saved, we didn't laugh. She mailed me her underware with the return address of a hotel in her town, we didn't laugh.

She sent me her favorite lotion so I could smell like he, we didn't laugh.

She started texting that I was harassing her and I needed to contact her or else. I contacted her in an effort to stop the madness and she told me it was not her that sent me all those things. She tells me she loves my husband. When I asked if they exchanged ILYs she says no but she use to pretend to be sleeping and would say it in hopes he would say it back. We laughed like crazy, imagine her trying to convince me she is not lying about harassing me by admitting she's a freaking liar. Admit it, you laughed a little at that story.

 

And that's the condensed version this has been going on for over a year dispite blocking and legal involvement.

Edited April 10, 2014 by gettingstronger

[Speakingofwhich]

Yes, we did.

 

She forwarded me voicemails from my husband that she saved, we didn't laugh. She mailed me her underware with the return address of a hotel in her town, we didn't laugh.

She sent me her favorite lotion so I could smell like he, we didn't laugh.

She started texting that I was harassing her and I needed to contact her or else. I contacted her in an effort to stop the madness and she told me it was not her that sent me all those things. She tells me she loves my husband. When I asked if they exchanged ILYs she says no but she use to pretend to be sleeping and would say it in hopes he would say it back. We laughed like crazy, imagine her trying to convince me she is not lying about harassing me by admitting she's a freaking liar. Admit it, you laughed a little at that story.

 

And that's the condensed version this has been going on for over a year dispite blocking and legal involvement.

 

Sorry for all you're going through, gettingstronger. From your description, that's pretty loopy behavior, but, no nary a chuckle from me about it. She seems more sad than funny. Seems there would have been a host of red flags about her to have kept your H from getting involved with her.

 

This woman has been very very hurt early in her life and may also be mentally ill. Your H has only added to her misery to say nothing of the misery he has caused you. And he must have known going into the A that there was no chance of anything with her except to use her. To have an A with someone like this seems abusive to me.

 

I suppose you have grappled with those thoughts among others? Is your H getting help in IC?

[gettingstronger]

Speaking, of course he is in IC and of course I thumped him on the head and said really, this is the junk you chose to bring in to our lives, there had to have been red flags. But no, sorry I don't buy the notion that everyone that acts as self centered as she has is mentally ill. I think it's easy to say you would be the bigger person and not laugh but when you are living it you can't help but see it for what it is. Someone knowingly pushing the limits on proper adult behavior and all you can do is laugh at how ridiculous it all is.

[Speakingofwhich]

Speaking, of course he is in IC and of course I thumped him on the head and said really, this is the junk you chose to bring in to our lives, there had to have been red flags. But no, sorry I don't buy the notion that everyone that acts as self centered as she has is mentally ill. I think it's easy to say you would be the bigger person and not laugh but when you are living it you can't help but see it for what it is. Someone knowingly pushing the limits on proper adult behavior and all you can do is laugh at how ridiculous it all is.

 

I didn't say I'd be the bigger person. I said nary a chuckle, just because it doesn't seem humorous to me, not saying it's not humorous to you! It's good that you can laugh it off. I don't consider not finding it funny an issue of superiority, though, and don't consider her junk, either, just not well!

 

I do realize that if I was the one dealing with it (BW) my feelings would probably be different than I can imagine at this point. So sorry you've had to deal with all of that and glad your H is in IC! Best wishes!

[gettingstronger]

For goodness sake, by junk I was referring to the behaviors not the person but I'm pretty sure you knew that but couldn't resist. Cheers and have a great night.

[cocorico]

Hi guys...Hugs to all who are struggling with NC..

 

<comments about specific threads/forums redacted>

 

 

From reading here for two years, its often said that MM say the ILY's and so forth. How can the BS actually believe anything their WS says? After all, this is the person who cheated and they cannot be 100% sure if they said this or that. And how cruel to take someone back who slept with someone else and then turn around, making fun of that said person. Personally, I don't get it.

And how as an OW or FOW, think about these things and react to such a cruel deed?

Any thoughts?

 

I would not trust someone who could easily betray the memory of someone who once meant something to them - unless the "meaning something" had been a survival mechanism to cope with trauma (eg Stockholm Syndrome) subsequently recovered from, or the "meaning something" was significantly overshadowed by abuse by the someone (eg a child who is abused by a parent) - in which case speaking out or seeking to put emotional distance between themself and the "someone who once meant something" would be psychologically healthy IMO.

 

But if someone chose to love freely, without duress or manipulation, and without abuse by their loved one, then such a betrayal would sound a huge warning to me. I would not trust someone for whom betrayal came easily.

[cocorico]

I still don't understand why any woman would get involved with a man who is otherwise committed... married or in a long term relationship... and then feel they have a right to complain about ANYTHING.

 

Being the OW means many things could or will happen to you

- other people will look down on your for trying to interject yourself in someone else's relationship

- you will get called names and others will lose respect for you

- people will laugh at you for being foolish

- you will get hurt

- even if you do manage to "steal" the man away from his significant other, you will always be looking over your shoulder wondering if he'll do the same to you

- he could be just using you for an ego boost

- he could decide to go back to his wife, dump you and then make fun of you because of it

- it will affect your future relationships... that future man, if he finds out that you were willing to be part of a lying affair will wonder if you will do the same to him

 

Any of those things COULD happen and very often, at least one or more on the list DO happen. So, if women know this, and it's pretty common knowledge, WHY get involved with someone who is obviously lying to be with you? And then when he dumps you to go back to his wife... why cry about it? I just don't understand it.

 

I've no idea what awful place you live in where such things happen, but certainly none of that happened to me, nor anyone I know. How awful for he people who live in such a place - both for those being treated so meanly, and for those being so mean.

 

 

Now... as for the BS and MM laughing together about the OW... I seriously doubt that it happens very often. If it does, it's because the OW has repeatedly acted like a fool after the fact and can't let things go.

 

So, by the same logic, for the fOW and fMM who are beset by a xBW who persists in "acting like a fool after the fact and not letting go" - for many years - it's quite OK to laugh? I can't say we've ever laughed - having some psycho stealing your underwear, waddling about uninvited in the intimate spaces in your home when you're away, or committing petty theft and vandalism strikes me as criminal rather than amusing, and makes me more inclined to lay a charge than to fall about on the floor guffawing.

 

But, to each their own.

[Speakingofwhich]

For goodness sake, by junk I was referring to the behaviors not the person but I'm pretty sure you knew that but couldn't resist. Cheers and have a great night.

 

No, getting stronger, I didn't realize that at all.

 

When I read a post on here, I take it that the poster meant what they wrote, not something else.

 

I believe it's possible to get into misunderstandings when assuming other than what is clearly written so that's why I try not to do that myself (not always successfully, though!) and why I'm taking the time to write this additional post.

 

Now that you have clarified that you were referring to her behavior and not her person, it makes it clear that you were referring to her behavior and not her person.

 

Before when you referred to her as junk, it seemed that's what you meant since that's the way it was written.

 

To me reading something other than what a poster has written is attaching a personal bias to it. Such as "I'm pretty sure you knew that but couldn't resist. I really didn't know that, for reasons I have already explained.

 

I'm writing this to you with kindness. Because you wrote, "For goodness sake(an expression of surprise or annoyance)............I'm pretty sure you knew that but couldn't resist, (judging motive)" it seems it's possible that you are reading into my post things that weren't written there.

 

Not having the advantage of voice inflections and facial expressions to help establish attitudes on this board sometimes can be a little tricky and lead to misunderstandings.

 

Both of us being posters on this forum, I look forward to reading your posts in the future and wanted to explain why I'm addressing this further so that the next time we interact you realize I'm commenting on your post with good will!

 

Thanks for your cheery good wishes for a great night! I hope you have a great day with lots of sunshine! And I do look forward to interacting with you more on this board! I can imagine we will find things to discuss that we both agree on!

[ThatMan]

Those with PTSD are known to laugh while narrating traumatic experiences inside their own mind. Just putting this out there. Laughter is not a typical reaction to painful events and it allows people to deal with, or rather sidestep dealing with, pain.

 

Being laughed at for being the OW/OM is the least of what could go wrong. Zero sympathy. Acts of cruelty would include the vindictive behavior that some engage in. I can easily name genuine mistreatment of others, and that doesn't include a chuckle. You are allowing the opinion of somebody who doesn't even matter to hurt your feelings. It's time to get over yourself. Laughter shows that this person has a lot to sort through and that isn't your concern. You are choosing to make this your concern and you deserve whatever discomfort is entailed with that. Make the choice to not be involved if it bothers you so much.

[stillafool]

How can a BS sleep with a man who so easily betrayed her?

 

Your questions are all black and white as if no stringing along and lies are being told to the OW. Why do they stay in the A? Not because they love being in an A. Do you think it's easy for them to know he goes home to his W every night?

 

They stay because they are being TOLD another story by the WS, which is that he is leaving, the marriage is over, just be patient, I'm divorcing, etc. Yes, when you love someone, you want to believe in them.

 

Obviously the BS loves their husband and vice versa that's why they married each other. Why is it okay for you to love someone and believe them but not expect the married spouse to not believe them? This is their partner who they have built a life with. You can't expect a BS to show you any type of loyalty or compassion when you knowingly took part in destroying their marriage. One could ask why you would knowingly go with a MM and help them cheat on their spouse. Until you see divorce papers they are still married.

[Speakingofwhich]

Those with PTSD are known to laugh while narrating traumatic experiences inside their own mind.

 

Veerrry interesting! I didn't know this, thanks for posting!

[Sub]

Maybe a clarification of what we're talking about when we say "ridiculing" or "making fun of" someone. I doubt that in most cases it entails the two people laughing at someone on a high school level, in a cliquish, they're-not-as-cool-as -us way. I think it's more dismissive than anything. My experience was that it was a "This f**king guy is going to question how good a father I am? Seriously?", with a smile on my face.

[Speakingofwhich]

I didn't laugh at OW. I didn't find any of it funny. Horrifying, hurtful, selfish, destructive, yes, funny? Nope. But to be totally brutally honest if I was able to laugh at it a little at the time I'd have found it easier. And if laughing at OW helped me get over it a bit faster who would honestly begrudge me? She'd never know would she? I have worried about her, felt guilty for what she was going through, even wondered if I should just step aside and let them get together ( yes really ) I'm a bit sick of caring what other people need. I wish I could have been able to laugh at her a little.

 

I didn't ask her to get involved with my h. Any pain she feel (and I don't relish that, believe me) was pain she signed up for.

 

But if h had the nerve to laugh at her I'd have effing decked him!!

 

I agree with you, if you can laugh at a difficult situation you find yourself in, it surely often helps to deal with it and also helps you physically to stay healthy, ime. Especially when it's a situation you can't extricate yourself from!

 

Btw, I got a visual of you "effing decking your H" and chuckled when I read the last line of your post. If I actually saw you do it, I doubt I'd find it funny!

[PinkInTheLimo]

Not everyone who got involved with a MM knew that he was married. That was my case. He told me that he was separated. As he turned out to work for the same employer as myself but in another department this gave me a false impression that I could trust him (I thought that even though we worked in totally different fields, one would not lie to a colleague - how wrong was I about that). Add to that the fact that at some point I spoke to a direct female colleague of his who told me that he was preparing a divorce (in hindsight I now know that the skank was hoping to put her claws on him once he would be out of his marriage). Add the fact that this man acted as if he was totally in love with me.

Add to that the fact that I am not a liar, and I certainly would never lead someone on when it comes to romantic feelings. The world my xMM has shown, that world of lies and betrayal, is definitely not mine.

 

So yes I consider myself a victim. Because I was lured into a relationship with lies. Had I known how his real situation was and how false his motives were, I would never have gotten involved with him.

I met him at a moment when I was very happy and content with my life and felt very confident about the future. I think I must have been beaming with happiness. The perfect victim for a parasite looking to suck the life out of someone in order to fill the void in himself.

When I finally put an end to the relationship after 1,5 year I was only a shadow of myself and it took me a long time to rebuild myself. All the lies and betrayal had caused extreme turbulence in my life. When it was over I remember the relief I felt at no longer having to deal with his lies. I felt peace.

 

Just an example of a lie: he told me he would play a tennis tournament on a Sunday. He even send me a text at the end of the day with the scores of the sets he played. Afterwards I found out on the website of the tennis federation that he had not played that day. CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS??? Lie about having played tennis and going so far as to make up the scores??? How sick is that? And I am someone who likes tennis very much so that makes it even worse.

 

It's been 3,5 years since the whole thing ended and unfortunately I can't say I have my spark back. The whole thing has been a fundamental blow to my believe that love is possible for me. I know it should not be like that yet it is.

I don't miss how I felt with him, not at all, it was not what he pretended it was. I miss very much how I felt before I met him.

 

I am very glad that I snooped because it allowed me to see to what extent he would lie to manipulate everyone around him to do exactly what he wanted them to do. That destroyed the positive image I had of him, which made it easier to remove myself from the relationship. The snooping showed me what an icecold immoral liar this man is.

[KaliLove]

I've no idea what awful place you live in where such things happen, but certainly none of that happened to me, nor anyone I know. How awful for he people who live in such a place - both for those being treated so meanly, and for those being so mean.

 

 

 

 

So, by the same logic, for the fOW and fMM who are beset by a xBW who persists in "acting like a fool after the fact and not letting go" - for many years - it's quite OK to laugh? I can't say we've ever laughed - having some psycho stealing your underwear, waddling about uninvited in the intimate spaces in your home when you're away, or committing petty theft and vandalism strikes me as criminal rather than amusing, and makes me more inclined to lay a charge than to fall about on the floor guffawing.

 

But, to each their own.

 

I live in the US and cheating is extremely frowned upon here. I've never met anyone who thinks it's ok to be involved in an affair.

[BHsigh]

I know that I don't laugh at my wife's exOM, he has no redeeming qualities that would allow me to laugh at him, I seethe at him.

 

And I'm with Waterwoman, if my wife laughed about him I would feel like decking her too, then I would just give up on R and take off, both for laughing at OM and thinking about him still.

[Got it]

I still don't understand why any woman would get involved with a man who is otherwise committed... married or in a long term relationship... and then feel they have a right to complain about ANYTHING.

 

Being the OW means many things could or will happen to you

- other people will look down on your for trying to interject yourself in someone else's relationship

- you will get called names and others will lose respect for you

- people will laugh at you for being foolish

- you will get hurt

- even if you do manage to "steal" the man away from his significant other, you will always be looking over your shoulder wondering if he'll do the same to you

- he could be just using you for an ego boost

- he could decide to go back to his wife, dump you and then make fun of you because of it

- it will affect your future relationships... that future man, if he finds out that you were willing to be part of a lying affair will wonder if you will do the same to him

 

Any of those things COULD happen and very often, at least one or more on the list DO happen. So, if women know this, and it's pretty common knowledge, WHY get involved with someone who is obviously lying to be with you? And then when he dumps you to go back to his wife... why cry about it? I just don't understand it.

 

Now... as for the BS and MM laughing together about the OW... I seriously doubt that it happens very often. If it does, it's because the OW has repeatedly acted like a fool after the fact and can't let things go. Otherwise, I have rarely heard of a BS and MM thinking it's funny to laugh about their marriage being ripped apart.

 

Well let's add to the list that one could win the lottery, get a transfer, decide to become a farmer, etc.

 

I get so tired of assumptions and speculation and just common doomsday trotted out like absolutes.

 

Could these things happen? Sure. Could they not. Sure as well. Many of these could happen for no reason at all as well. "People" encompasses a wide swath of the human race.

 

I do want to clarify that one does not always look over their shoulder nor may they ever start even if things started out as an affair. It is silly to believe this is an absolute. Just like it is silly to believe that a marriage can not be stronger after the affair. Always and nevers are absolutes and they are never correct and almost always wrong.

 

But does "bonding over another" happen? Sure. It happens in many different relationships. It is a dysfunctional way to bond as it is not adding positive value to the partnership but it can create an alliance that wasn't there or there to that degree. You see this happen in platonic relationships as well especially with younger and more immature individuals.

[Got it]

I live in the US and cheating is extremely frowned upon here. I've never met anyone who thinks it's ok to be involved in an affair.

 

I do think it depends on where you life in the US. There are different tolerance levels based on geography, status, and socioeconomic factors. While it may not be cheerleadered it is not at the level posted above.

[Quiet Storm]

I do think it depends on where you life in the US. There are different tolerance levels based on geography, status, and socioeconomic factors. While it may not be cheerleadered it is not at the level posted above.

 

I live in a very liberal and tolerant part of the US and affairs are judged harshly.

[KaliLove]

I live in a very liberal and tolerant part of the US and affairs are judged harshly.

 

Ditto. I live in a major city and work in an industry where affairs are common but they are STILL considered shameful if they are exposed.

[Hope Shimmers]

Obviously the BS loves their husband and vice versa that's why they married each other. Why is it okay for you to love someone and believe them but not expect the married spouse to not believe them? This is their partner who they have built a life with. You can't expect a BS to show you any type of loyalty or compassion when you knowingly took part in destroying their marriage. One could ask why you would knowingly go with a MM and help them cheat on their spouse. Until you see divorce papers they are still married.

 

Yeah, well, I didn't 'knowingly' go with a MM and 'help them cheat on a spouse'. Call me stupid if you will, but I believed him when he said he was separated and he had filed for divorce and they were living apart. Unfortunately, in many states a D can't be final until at least a year of formal separation has occurred. These people don't put their life on hold, understandably so, but it makes it difficult for the other party.

 

You said: "Why is it okay for you to love someone and believe them but not expect the married spouse to not believe them?" Honestly the last half of your sentence makes no sense to me because of how it's phrased. But I never said it was "okay" for me to believe in him but not his W.

[sweet_pea]

Hi guys...Hugs to all who are struggling with NC..

 

<comments about specific threads/forums redacted>

 

 

From reading here for two years, its often said that MM say the ILY's and so forth. How can the BS actually believe anything their WS says? After all, this is the person who cheated and they cannot be 100% sure if they said this or that. And how cruel to take someone back who slept with someone else and then turn around, making fun of that said person. Personally, I don't get it.

And how as an OW or FOW, think about these things and react to such a cruel deed?

Any thoughts?

 

Yeah, well having an affair is pretty darn cruel so……

 

How can a BS trust anything their WS says? Well, how can an AP? If you're talking about after a DDay… probably through verification, action and seeing proof of things. Other than that, they probably don't trust their WS 100%. The trust isn't there overnight, it comes with time and the above mentioned things (actions, seeing proof, trusting but verifying the information, etc.) in fact the BS has to pretty much become a super sleuth come DDay in order to trust their WS at times.

[Raena]

Well let's add to the list that one could win the lottery, get a transfer, decide to become a farmer, etc.

 

I get so tired of assumptions and speculation and just common doomsday trotted out like absolutes.

 

Could these things happen? Sure. Could they not. Sure as well. Many of these could happen for no reason at all as well. "People" encompasses a wide swath of the human race.

 

I do want to clarify that one does not always look over their shoulder nor may they ever start even if things started out as an affair. It is silly to believe this is an absolute. Just like it is silly to believe that a marriage can not be stronger after the affair. Always and nevers are absolutes and they are never correct and almost always wrong.

 

So what... in the face of knowing darn well that an affair more than likely will NOT turn out well, one should just ignore it and proceed on the off chance that it will turn out all peaches and cream... the chances of that happening are about as good as winning the lottery! This is not "doomsday trotted out like absolutes" it is fact... these things DO often happen and that's the chance that the OW/OM takes when getting involved with a cheater.

 

You logic here makes no sense whatsoever. The point is... a woman who knowingly gets involved with a taken man should do so KNOWING that the chances of it working out well are slim to none. Period. And there WILL be consequences for it in one form or another.

 

On top of that... if said person does end up in a relationship with the cheater and DOESN'T spend some time wondering if the cheater will do it to them then well, they are just hiding from it and pretending that all is peachy (sticking head in sand) when the reality is... if they did it to be with you, they could just as easily do it to you. Will that always happen? Nope. But to just pretend that it couldn't possibly happen is just ludicrous. Why would anyone really WANT that kind of relationship? And why WOULDN'T you think about it if the relationship started as an affair.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Raena