TurningTables Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Hi guys...Hugs to all who are struggling with NC.. <comments about specific threads/forums redacted> From reading here for two years, its often said that MM say the ILY's and so forth. How can the BS actually believe anything their WS says? After all, this is the person who cheated and they cannot be 100% sure if they said this or that. And how cruel to take someone back who slept with someone else and then turn around, making fun of that said person. Personally, I don't get it. And how as an OW or FOW, think about these things and react to such a cruel deed? Any thoughts? Edited April 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Comments on other threads are welcomed in those threads 3
RickFox Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Yes, despite it all, in the end what does it matter? The who gives a rat's butt mentality must prevail. In order for that couple to make it work they must unite in whatever manner they can. Again, is not important really 4
Author TurningTables Posted April 9, 2014 Author Posted April 9, 2014 Yes, despite it all, in the end what does it matter? The who gives a rat's butt mentality must prevail. In order for that couple to make it work they must unite in whatever manner they can. Again, is not important really Really? It would not bother you that maybe you loved this person and they are making fun of the things you said? Even when the WS told the AP they loved them? What I am getting at is is this: So many OW on this board say that their AP said all these things: only to deny this to their BS. And then the BS just believes them. Its perplexing is it not? 1
veryhappy Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I read that very topic right before yours. That happens a lot, it's not the first time I read it. It's bonding over dissecting the 3rd party. For me it is one of the main reasons I keep NC. I know how she would have reacted if the a was in the open. I know they would have done the same. He's told me their strongest intimacy building tool is gossip. They and she loves to gossip. After ending the a I realized how bad the outcome could have been for me. It's sometimes done by the people in the a about the BS. I think it has more to do with how people are in general. There are a few BS who wrote that they refused to hear anything and about the so as it was a diversion from the real culprit. We all do it to some extent, but in some instances it can get pretty damaging and evil. 1
Hope Shimmers Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 From reading here for two years, its often said that MM say the ILY's and so forth. How can the BS actually believe anything their WS says? After all, this is the person who cheated and they cannot be 100% sure if they said this or that. As for the joking about the OW part, no one knows how much hurt she might be going through and what she might have been told in terms of lies by the WS. No matter how foolish she might be acting, she's doing so out of hurt, and no one should be made fun of for their hurt at the hands of another person. I know that, as an OW, I hurt more than anything and did things I would never have done otherwise. As for the bolded part above, this is something I wonder about all the time. 4
gettingstronger Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 No, you are spinning off my post and doing so inaccurately. Of course I am hurting every person on this forum is, but you have to own it 3
Hope Shimmers Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 That was my post and you are reposting out of context here. Our OW had intruded in our lives for 14 months. What we laugh about comes from her own mouth. Believe me when I tell you I have been beyond patient and kind in this situation. If you want to swipe at me, go ahead but please be truthful about it. I am a strong advocate of redemption and personal growth mainly from my experience. Of our OW would have spent half the time I have on regaining my self worth and center we would all be better off. I believe we are all capable of overcoming the trauma of affairs and we have a responsibility to ourselves to do so. I will cheerlead behind any person that is working on being a healthier happier person, even when they slip and fall. But everyone has limits and 14 months of intruding into life nearly every two weeks is far beyond it. And yes, if you act a fool, people will laugh at you. She is acting a fool. I've been meaning to ask you this before: why do you call her "our" OW? Is it a bonding thing? She was his OW, right? I don't know if I misunderstood the back story or if it is just a bonding thing.
Author TurningTables Posted April 9, 2014 Author Posted April 9, 2014 As for the joking about the OW part, no one knows how much hurt she might be going through and what she might have been told in terms of lies by the WS. No matter how foolish she might be acting, she's doing so out of hurt, and no one should be made fun of for their hurt at the hands of another person. I know that, as an OW, I hurt more than anything and did things I would never have done otherwise. As for the bolded part above, this is something I wonder about all the time. The bolded part is exactly what I am saying. How can a BS view their WS while watching them laugh at the expense of a OW/OM that they willing slept with? I guess I am trying to wrap my head around that one. I would look at my WH and go Who are you? Maybe that is just me... TT 3
yellowmaverick Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Getting Stronger.. This was in no way a "swipe" at you. I am just trying to understand how the dynamic changes in a WS so quickly. Most OW on here will tell you that they just dont understand how or why the WS changed so quickly. You will hear: he said he loved me..he said this..he said that... I do find it odd that your WS can easily laugh at someone he choose to sleep with. You dont really know what he said to her in private. I guess what Im trying to get at is the "whys" and the contradiction TT Pot, meet kettle. Do you not see the irony in your comment? The MM in most cases is having sex with his wife, telling her he loves her, and planning for the future.....all while he is having sex with the OW. You know he's a liar and a cheater, yet, all of you OW believe every word out of his lying, cheating mouth.You have no idea what is going on privately between the MM and his wife. The fact is, the MM who stays with his wife was never truthful to the OW. He told her what he needed to tell her to get what he wanted. For the record, my WH and I have never laughed or found joy in anything about the OW. There is not much funny about a restraining order. Edited April 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix quote 14
Spark1111 Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Really? It would not bother you that maybe you loved this person and they are making fun of the things you said? Even when the WS told the AP they loved them? What I am getting at is is this: So many OW on this board say that their AP said all these things: only to deny this to their BS. And then the BS just believes them. Its perplexing is it not? you are making the mistake in believing all WS are let off the hook so easily. It simply is not true. My fWS tried to minimize his A relationship to me after DDAY but I, like so many BSs was not having it. I had the cell phone records, the bank statements, and private text messages..... he could have claimed the sky was blue, and I would have gone outside to check it.....THAT'S how much you do not believe a fWS after DDay. With that being said, IF you have an unstable OW who makes your life a living hell.....after you both decide to reconcile....HOW, EXACTLY, do you expect the couple to REACT? Most mature adults move on and allow bygones to be bygones. What do you do if the AP or the BS, OR WS, are bat Shyte crazy, certifiable, and continue to wreak havoc long after the affair is over? better to laugh than to cry, IMHO. 4
veryhappy Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 No, you are spinning off my post and doing so inaccurately. Of course I am hurting every person on this forum is, but you have to own it If you are dealing with a crazy exap who's boilig bunny that's your story. It doesn't mean that the topic started here is not valid. It goes on here all the time. Of his exow poor thing with too issues, oh she etc. etc . It's being done and quite frankly I don't read this post as a reply to your particular story. 1
gettingstronger Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I know the our OW thing bothers lots of people on here but that's now we view it. It happened to us, not just him. We refer to the A as a situation too because that's what it ends up being. A situation to be dealt with. These are terms from my husbands mouth and how he now views it. Believe me I know ours is extreme because our OW will not go away. Again why I am a huge believer in getting healthy for all involved. Sorry if this is a TJ.
Author TurningTables Posted April 9, 2014 Author Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Getting Stronger.. This was in no way a "swipe" at you. I am just trying to understand how the dynamic changes in a WS so quickly. Most OW on here will tell you that they just dont understand how or why the WS changed so quickly. You will hear: he said he loved me..he said this..he said that... I do find it odd that your WS can easily laugh at someone he choose to sleep with. You dont really know what he said to her in private. I guess what Im trying to get at is the "whys" and the contradiction TTPot meet kettle Do you not see the irony in your comment? The MM in most cases is having sex with his wife, telling her he loves her, and planning for the future.....all while he is having sex with the OW. You know he's a liar and a cheater, yet, all of you OW believe every word out of his lying, cheating mouth.You have no idea what is going on privately between the MM and his wife. The fact is, the MM who stays with his wife was never truthful to the OW. He told her what he needed to tell her to get what he wanted. For the record, my WH and I have never laughed or found joy in anything about the OW. There is not much funny about a restraining order. How is this pot meet kettle? And I agree that anyone as an OW/OM really doesn't know what goes on behind closed doors either. But that door also swings the other way in an A. Edited April 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix quote 3
Hope Shimmers Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Do you not see the irony in your comment? The MM in most cases is having sex with his wife, telling her he loves her, and planning for the future.....all while he is having sex with the OW. You know he's a liar and a cheater, yet, all of you OW believe every word out of his lying, cheating mouth.You have no idea what is going on privately between the MM and his wife. The fact is, the MM who stays with his wife was never truthful to the OW. He told her what he needed to tell her to get what he wanted. Of course it works both ways. No one said it didn't. The point is, that after the A is over, when it should be clear to everyone involved that the WS was a lying **** during the A, why then does the BS suddenly believe him? The OW certainly has woken up to who she was dealing with by that time. At least that's how I interpreted it. (See my signature) 1
yellowmaverick Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Of course it works both ways. No one said it didn't. The point is, that after the A is over, when it should be clear to everyone involved that the WS was a lying **** during the A, why then does the BS suddenly believe him? The OW certainly has woken up to who she was dealing with by that time. At least that's how I interpreted it. Hope, why wasn't it clear to you DURING the affair? Did you really believe that someone who would cheat on his lifelong partner and tell her hundreds of lies was not lying to you as well? How could that never have crossed your mind?? It seems to me that the OW don't see it until the MM leaves them. I don't get it. 8
gettingstronger Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 On the what to believe , I only believe what I can verify. The rest I either forgive or learn to live with. That's just me though. How others deal with their recovery is up to them. 6
Hope Shimmers Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Hope, why wasn't it clear to you DURING the affair? Did you really believe that someone who would cheat on his lifelong partner and tell her hundreds of lies was not lying to you as well? How could that never have crossed your mind?? It seems to me that the OW don't see it until the MM leaves them. I don't get it. Well, in MY case he was separated and divorcing when we started dating and it wasn't apparent until years later that he actually wasn't going to follow through. As for others, yes I think the WS often loves the OW (or OM) very much and the OM/OW believes everything they say about the marriage being over, divorcing, etc. Why wouldn't you trust and believe the person who professes to love you, at least until you are proven otherwise? In the case of the BS, they have been shown otherwise but they choose to believe anyway. Confusing. 5
gettingstronger Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I get that and you took it out of context to suit your narrative, that's all. It's all good. I've made my point I think.
jellybean89 Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Really? It would not bother you that maybe you loved this person and they are making fun of the things you said? Even when the WS told the AP they loved them? What I am getting at is is this: So many OW on this board say that their AP said all these things: only to deny this to their BS. And then the BS just believes them. Its perplexing is it not? I haven't read the whole thread yet; but you seem to be fixated about what is said about the OW between the cheater and the betrayed spouse. What about what the OW has said about the betrayed spouse? The betrayed spouse has done NOTHING to the OW - nothing. Yet we read on here all the time the sometimes nasty comments OW make about the wife. There is so much condensation, referring to her as "wifey" and laughing at her physical appearance, making assumptions about her personality, her life, her sex life, etc. And where does the OW get some of these thoughts from? The cheater. So instead of focusing on what the BS thinks about the woman who slept with her husband, think about the cheater who talks smack about the wife AND the other woman. Think about how the BS has done nothing to encourage the affair; has no knowledge of the affair and when it is discovered is horrified and her world implodes yet the OW makes all kinds of comments about her reaction or their perceived ideas of her non-reaction, etc. I guess I don't get what your point is. The bolded part is exactly what I am saying. How can a BS view their WS while watching them laugh at the expense of a OW/OM that they willing slept with? I guess I am trying to wrap my head around that one. I would look at my WH and go Who are you? Maybe that is just me... Again, how can a WS and OW talk the talk they do about the wife? How can an OW sleep with a man who so easily betrayed the person he married? How can an OW kiss a man who talks smack about the woman he pledged to love and honor? How can an OW have sex with a man who they know has sex with another woman? The OW knows without a doubt the MM goes home to his wife nightly; how can she have an affair with someone who hides them, minimizes them and seems ashamed to be in public with? If he loves this OW so much, why does he go home to his wife? Why doesn't he leave? See...you can turn pretty much any 'thought' around. Bottom line is -- there are 2 people in the triangle who know what they are doing -- they are having a secret affair. There is 1 person in the triangle who is completely innocent -- the betrayed spouse. How can anyone love a person who so easily cheats on their spouse? 5
Hope Shimmers Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 How can an OW sleep with a man who so easily betrayed the person he married? How can a BS sleep with a man who so easily betrayed her? Your questions are all black and white as if no stringing along and lies are being told to the OW. Why do they stay in the A? Not because they love being in an A. Do you think it's easy for them to know he goes home to his W every night? They stay because they are being TOLD another story by the WS, which is that he is leaving, the marriage is over, just be patient, I'm divorcing, etc. Yes, when you love someone, you want to believe in them. 3
jellybean89 Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I don't understand why all the snipping at each other? OW were lied to BS were lied to OW still love MM who hurt them BS still love MM who hurt them 7
Hope Shimmers Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I don't understand why all the snipping at each other? OW were lied to BS were lied to OW still love MM who hurt them BS still love MM who hurt them And don't forget, MM still love the OW in many cases. I agree with you about the rest. It sucks for everyone.
Author TurningTables Posted April 9, 2014 Author Posted April 9, 2014 I haven't read the whole thread yet; but you seem to be fixated about what is said about the OW between the cheater and the betrayed spouse. What about what the OW has said about the betrayed spouse? The betrayed spouse has done NOTHING to the OW - nothing. Yet we read on here all the time the sometimes nasty comments OW make about the wife. There is so much condensation, referring to her as "wifey" and laughing at her physical appearance, making assumptions about her personality, her life, her sex life, etc. And where does the OW get some of these thoughts from? The cheater. So instead of focusing on what the BS thinks about the woman who slept with her husband, think about the cheater who talks smack about the wife AND the other woman. Think about how the BS has done nothing to encourage the affair; has no knowledge of the affair and when it is discovered is horrified and her world implodes yet the OW makes all kinds of comments about her reaction or their perceived ideas of her non-reaction, etc. I guess I don't get what your point is. Again, how can a WS and OW talk the talk they do about the wife? How can an OW sleep with a man who so easily betrayed the person he married? How can an OW kiss a man who talks smack about the woman he pledged to love and honor? How can an OW have sex with a man who they know has sex with another woman? The OW knows without a doubt the MM goes home to his wife nightly; how can she have an affair with someone who hides them, minimizes them and seems ashamed to be in public with? If he loves this OW so much, why does he go home to his wife? Why doesn't he leave? See...you can turn pretty much any 'thought' around. Bottom line is -- there are 2 people in the triangle who know what they are doing -- they are having a secret affair. There is 1 person in the triangle who is completely innocent -- the betrayed spouse. How can anyone love a person who so easily cheats on their spouse? JB... I understand your post completely. I guess what stung about all this is that many posters here wonder about everything after the A ends. Did he mean this? Did he mean that? Its the same questions over and over just different posters. And just the thought of that person who claimed they loved you, making fun of you behind your back all the while they also participated in the A as well. Maybe Im not communicating my point well.
Spark1111 Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 the OW in my sitch talked smack about me all the time. He LET her assume the worst of me. She wanted a future with him and HE allowed her to assume whatever SHE needed to about me and our marriage. I still hate him for that.....He was a coward, and said or DIDN'T SAY whatever was necessary to keep those feel good hormones/affirmations a'coming. I have told him so. I have also written many a time that IF she truly wanted to know the truth of OUR marriage, I WAS ONLY EVER one phone call away. Needless to say she never called, so I can only assume she NEVER wanted my truth....only HIS. Here is an example: In the beginning of the affair, she asked him if we still had sex? he told her rarely. She was sooo disappointed to hear that, so he told her never. he told her we lived like roommates in separate bedrooms. We made love at least twice a week during the affair...down from our usual, but I chalked it up to new job stress and let it go. She then told him, believing we were NEVER intimate, that I must have a boyfriend on the side. He started to believe HER.....and grew angrier at me! Meanwhile, we were still going at it.... IF That is not the height of DELUSIONAL THINKING, I do no know what is..... 2
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