Being friends after D-Day

[Spark1111]

I agree.

 

there is NO lifelong friend, family member, spouse child who would condone the destruction of a marriage, family, legacy, by having a secret affair.

 

the ONLY person who would rationalize it IS the affair partner.

 

Everyone else, who truly cared and loved you, would try to pummel you.

 

Hence, affairs MUST be secret and the ONLY person who condones the secrecy is the AP.

 

Friend? My worst enemy may say yes, good idea.

 

But those who truly LOVED and respected me? NEVER in a million years would they encourage a friendship with someone who willingly aided and abetted me to self-destruct all I had once held dear....

[snappytomcat]

no way did my husband or I for that matter,wanted to be friends with the ow,when he told her it was over,and done he meant it,and never gave her a second thought,before dday he did try to break it off,and she said she wanted to at least be friends,and if he didn't agree to it,she said she would tell me about the A,so he was distraught after dday,as I was angry,and hurt,but he said it was a big huge life sucking weight off his shoulders

[Patna]

Just sharing from a WS point of view:

 

A lot of people would use the term 'affair fog' to generalize and downplay the affair relationship. However, if you were to read most of the posts by WS, you would realized that we hardly use this term. For short term affairs, yes, it would probably be so. But for long term affairs, do you suppose people really can get together for years in just a 'fog'?

 

Mine was only an one year affair, but I am sure it wasn't a fog. Neither my exMM thought so too when we had a talk about it after Dday. Most affairs are built on communication, thus resulting in EA. That is why you often heard how APs say they have a lot of emotional connection, because emotional intimacy is most often built on communication. They even claimed to be buddies, best friends, and soul mates, because of the close emotional intimacy they both shared. They would also say their APs understand them very well, thus they fall in love with them. My exMM calls me daily and we talked for 1-2 hours everyday for one year. And I meant talk, as in engaging and giving each other full attention.

 

Most affairs started because our spouse and us have lost that emotional intimacy. But as human beings, we all yearn for such closeness with someone, hence most of us fall into the traps of affairs when we found someone we can relate well too. Now I wouldn't say this is right, because we are supposed to turn back to our spouses and rebuilt what was lost. So if you would think again from another perspective, isn't marriage or any relationship supposed to be built on what these affairs are built on - communication? Affairs are wrong, but it doesn't discount the relationship because they are as real as two people coming together and investing in each other what should be invested in a relationship. So are affairs the 'fogs' or the 'real' relationship? How about marriage? When two married people are no longer investing in each other emotionally, could they be the ones actually living in the fog? Commitment may be the ones holding the marriage. But if the only reason holding onto the marriage is just commitment and convenience, then isn't that marriage a 'fog' too? Think over again. Purely PA however, is an exception and could be the result of the fog you guys mentioned.

 

A lot of people also associate affairs with love chemicals and addiction. Honestly, doesn't all relationships, even healthy marriages and BGRs, all have such elements? Withdrawals doesn't just occur in affair breakups, but in all types of breakups. We often associate withdrawal with affairs breakup in this forum because that's what we googled! But if you were to google just on the term 'withdrawal', you would realise it affects everybody, and in every relationships, including healthy ones. Similarly, love chemicals goes for even marriages. After sex with my H, I clearly feel closer and more bonded with him. If like what you guys mentioned, then isn't there something wrong with marriage since it's also chemical induced?

 

My point is that don't generalize these terms to just affairs. Affairs are often real, not a fog, and not just some chemical highs or addictions as what was claimed. Very often, BS have these misconceptions because when the WS are confronted, they often downplay the affairs to just fogs or addiction to minimize the impact of the R.

 

As to why APs want to keep the friendship after the A, that is usually in the beginning of the breakup. Do remember that A breakups are as devastating as any relationship breakup. Remember how you still want to remain friends when you just broke up with your ex in your younger days? You guys may not be together anymore, but you often still wish to be in that person's life still - to still care and know how the other person is doing. That's because although we have broke up, but we still have feelings for the person and still care for them. Also, it's part and parcel of the grief process - bargaining and denial stage. You may want to stay in contact hoping to rekindle the relationship. But you may also want to stay in contact even if both of you don't wish to revisit the relationship but still care for each other enough to still stay friends.

 

Remember how I mentioned most affairs are built on emotional intimacy? After a breakup, it doesn't erased the memory of the friendship and emotional intimacy you once shared. Very often, you missed your friend, and sometimes your best friend. Hence you try to keep them because you missed the friendship and it doesn't necessarily means they wish to rekindle the affair again by keeping the friendship. However, it takes time for them to realized that staying friends is almost impossible after that because not only it hurts the BS, but the temptation to restart the affair is always there due to the shared past. For WS, do take heart that these friendships often do not last because it is just too painful for the WS and his/her AP to stay friends, so they will part the friendship too. Very few can remained friends because it's too painful to remain friends after a breakup, which is the same in all types of relationships. Remember how you once said you wanted to stay as friends after breaking up with an ex but eventually backing away from their life because it's just too painful to remain friends? The last stage of grieving the end of a relationship is acceptance - when you accept that the end of the relationship is final. That's also when most APs back away from the friendship part, because they have finally accepted that they can no longer be in each other's lives.

 

Just sharing my thoughts

Edited April 9, 2014 by Patna
To add in the last 2 paragraphs to answer the questions

[snappytomcat]

Just sharing from a WS point of view:

 

A lot of people would use the term 'affair fog' to generalize and downplay the affair relationship. However, if you were to read most of the posts by WS, you would realized that we hardly use this term. For short term affairs, yes, it would probably be so. But for long term affairs, do you suppose people really can get together for years in just a 'fog'?

 

Mine was only an one year affair, but I am sure it wasn't a fog. Neither my exMM thought so too when we had a talk about it after Dday. Most affairs are built on communication, thus resulting in EA. That is why you often heard how APs say they have a lot of emotional connection, because emotional intimacy is most often built on communication. They even claimed to be buddies, best friends, and soul mates, because of the close emotional intimacy they both shared. They would also say their APs understand them very well, thus they fall in love with them. My exMM calls me daily and we talked for 1-2 hours everyday for one year. And I meant talk, as in engaging and giving each other full attention.

 

Most affairs started because our spouse and us have lost that emotional intimacy. But as human beings, we all yearn for such closeness with someone, hence most of us fall into the traps of affairs when we found someone we can relate well too. Now I wouldn't say this is right, because we are supposed to turn back to our spouses and rebuilt what was lost. So if you would think again from another perspective, isn't marriage or any relationship supposed to be built on what these affairs are built on - communication? Affairs are wrong, but it doesn't discount the relationship because they are as real as two people coming together and investing in each other what should be invested in a relationship. So are affairs the 'fogs' or the 'real' relationship? How about marriage? When two married people are no longer investing in each other emotionally, could they be the ones actually living in the fog? Commitment may be the ones holding the marriage. But if the only reason holding onto the marriage is just commitment and convenience, then isn't that marriage a 'fog' too? Think over again. Purely PA however, is an exception and could be the result of the fog you guys mentioned.

 

A lot of people also associate affairs with love chemicals and addiction. Honestly, doesn't all relationships, even healthy marriages and BGRs, all have such elements? Withdrawals doesn't just occur in affair breakups, but in all types of breakups. We often associate withdrawal with affairs breakup in this forum because that's what we googled! But if you were to google just on the term 'withdrawal', you would realise it affects everybody, and in every relationships, including healthy ones. Similarly, love chemicals goes for even marriages. After sex with my H, I clearly feel closer and more bonded with him. If like what you guys mentioned, then isn't there something wrong with marriage since it's also chemical induced?

 

My point is that don't generalize these terms to just affairs. Affairs are often real, not a fog, and not just some chemical highs or addictions as what was claimed. Very often, BS have these misconceptions because when the WS are confronted, they often downplay the affairs to just fogs or addiction to minimize the impact of the R.

 

As to why APs want to keep the friendship after the A, that is usually in the beginning of the breakup. Do remember that A breakups are as devastating as any relationship breakup. Remember how you still want to remain friends when you just broke up with your ex in your younger days? You guys may not be together anymore, but you often still wish to be in that person's life still - to still care and know how the other person is doing. That's because although we have broke up, but we still have feelings for the person and still care for them. Also, it's part and parcel of the grief process - bargaining and denial stage. You may want to stay in contact hoping to rekindle the relationship. But you may also want to stay in contact even if both of you don't wish to revisit the relationship but still care for each other enough to still stay friends.

 

Remember how I mentioned most affairs are built on emotional intimacy? After a breakup, it doesn't erased the memory of the friendship and emotional intimacy you once shared. Very often, you missed your friend, and sometimes your best friend. Hence you try to keep them because you missed the friendship and it doesn't necessarily means they wish to rekindle the affair again by keeping the friendship. However, it takes time for them to realized that staying friends is almost impossible after that because not only it hurts the BS, but the temptation to restart the affair is always there due to the shared past. For WS, do take heart that these friendships often do not last because it is just too painful for the WS and his/her AP to stay friends, so they will part the friendship too. Very few can remained friends because it's too painful to remain friends after a breakup, which is the same in all types of relationships. Remember how you once said you wanted to stay as friends after breaking up with an ex but eventually backing away from their life because it's just too painful to remain friends? The last stage of grieving the end of a relationship is acceptance - when you accept that the end of the relationship is final. That's also when most APs back away from the friendship part, because they have finally accepted that they can no longer be in each other's lives.

 

Just sharing my thoughts

I don't know my ws told our mc,and myself that he was in a fog,i never heard of that term until he said it

[gettingstronger]

Thanks for your thoughts Patna and I am not discounting or minimizing them at all, but my husband has thrown up numerous times at therapy when he comes face to face with what he did. This is my big tough executive high powered husband that when the fog, his term as well, lifted he was like what the hell was I doing, what was I thinking, how did I allow myself to be THAT person. Call it fog, call it denial, call it whatever, when it's stripped away it's a brutal reality they face.

[Hope Shimmers]

I think it's well worth pointing out that generalizations are just that - and all situations are different.

 

I chose to remain 'friends' with ex-MM initially for all the wrong reasons (wanted to stay close, hoping things would change, etc) but it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. The thing is, by the time I got to the point where it didn't bother me, I was - by definition - over that addition and need to have him around. So it ended up being pointless.

 

However, we still communicate. We were best friends before all of this started, and I would not say we will ever be that again - too much has happened. He acted like an a**h*le during the A and treated me badly, but after a lot of talking after the fact, I know it was because he was torn in a million directions. In other words, when he was separated and divorcing at the beginning of our relationship, I know that was his plan - he just couldn't go through with it. So I don't feel lied to and deceived in that way, if that makes sense. I do feel that along the way he came to know that he wasn't divorcing her and strung me along, so that is much of where my anger comes from - he was way less than honest there.

 

Also, I don't blame him for his main reason for separating and divorcing in the first place and although I am in NO WAY implying that the BS is to "blame", in this case his W literally said to me directly that she was done having sex, that he just had to accept that, but that he was still her husband and he had to respect that. It is part of the reason he was unhappy and still is (not all, but part).

 

But, he made the decision to stay with his W and I believe it was the best one - he loved her. He loved me too, and we were a lot more compatible in many ways, but I certainly didn't have the history with him that she did.

[veritas lux mea]

Patna, affair fog is actually more to do with the romantic side than the humping. It refers to not seeing the reality of what you are doing, justifying why you are doing it, and minimizing what you are doing. Not seeing clearly but rather viewing things from a mindset that says this is okay because of x,y,z. Generally a strictly PA is a lot simpler. No planning to leave or wishful thinking. Doinking and done and don't get caught.

 

 

A fog doesn't always mean the feelings weren't real it just means the relationship itself was unhealthy and while the head may know that the heart denies it. Like all the people who say "I know this is wrong, messed up and all the right words" but still continue the relationship. When you get healthy and see it for what it really is all romance and trueness of it go out the window.

[atreides]

Just sharing from a WS point of view:

 

A lot of people would use the term 'affair fog' to generalize and downplay the affair relationship.

 

 

Thanks very much for posting, I do appreciate it...

 

if I may give my view on your post, with my own life observances. I am not a BS.. but have lived through via family and friends too much infidelity.

 

But it should be downplayed, how any other way could it be rationally?

 

 

However, if you were to read most of the posts by WS, you would realized that we hardly use this term.

 

It is hard to look in the mirror most times.

 

For short term affairs, yes, it would probably be so. But for long term affairs, do you suppose people really can get together for years in just a 'fog'?

 

Absolutely, all affairs...it is why most that legitimately divorce and marry their AP do not work out, the game and addiction is lost. An addiction can last for years just as with any other addiction, that is actually the point. One of my closest friends' brother's wife had a 6 year affair. She D'd her H for her AP but it failed, the "fog" lifted and the reality of life set in... she lost the other half, the stability which allowed her to have a 6 year vacation. You see, it is dubbed "fog" because if it were "real" love, a Divorce would have ensued prior to the A relationship. In other words if so much was "wrong" with a marriage, it was not "wrong" enough to leave but "wrong" enough to compound it.

 

Mine was only an one year affair, but I am sure it wasn't a fog. Neither my exMM thought so too when we had a talk about it after Dday. Most affairs are built on communication, thus resulting in EA. That is why you often heard how APs say they have a lot of emotional connection, because emotional intimacy is most often built on communication. They even claimed to be buddies, best friends, and soul mates, because of the close emotional intimacy they both shared. They would also say their APs understand them very well, thus they fall in love with them. My exMM calls me daily and we talked for 1-2 hours everyday for one year. And I meant talk, as in engaging and giving each other full attention.

 

If anything kills the human condition, it is complacency and most times apathy, we take so much for granted and with many WS whom have removed themselves from the fog entirely say the opposite of your statement. That it was not real, that they realize what has happened and thus feel real guilt and work hard on righting themselves.

 

I am sure your AP said all the right things, I would also say what he represented as a variable in your life could have been from most as the result of projection.

 

Lastly what I put in bold, ironic the communication did not go the other way as with the spouse, so is it really communication?

 

Most affairs started because our spouse and us have lost that emotional intimacy.

 

I disagree, they start from inside oneself whether one is happy or unhappy with their marriage. Why is it so many do not resort to infidelity while unhappy and either leave or fix their marriage?

 

But as human beings, we all yearn for such closeness with someone, hence most of us fall into the traps of affairs when we found someone we can relate well too. Now I wouldn't say this is right, because we are supposed to turn back to our spouses and rebuilt what was lost. So if you would think again from another perspective, isn't marriage or any relationship supposed to be built on what these affairs are built on - communication?

 

Not at all, not all... that is a travesty of logic. While engaging in an affair your AP does not have the same set of standards, circumstances held for the spouse and does not have to endure the "life" side of the relationship for acceptance, but only has most of the romantic, lust and "fun" side of life. To truly be equal to how you chose your spouse or equate to your relationship you built with your spouse, you would have to be single and qualify them with the whole of the "pie of life" and not just a slice.

 

 

Affairs are wrong, but it doesn't discount the relationship because they are as real as two people coming together and investing in each other what should be invested in a relationship.

 

The bold statement is contradictory, you start by discounting the relationship but change direction to say it is real.

It is indeed very real to have an affair just like it is very real to lie, cheat, keep secrets and so on... all very real in life.

 

So are affairs the 'fogs' or the 'real' relationship? How about marriage? When two married people are no longer investing in each other emotionally, could they be the ones actually living in the fog? Commitment may be the ones holding the marriage. But if the only reason holding onto the marriage is just commitment and convenience, then isn't that marriage a 'fog' too? Think over again. Purely PA however, is an exception and could be the result of the fog you guys mentioned.

 

there is no nice way to say a feeble attempt at rationalization, there is no difference between an EA or PA they are simply both an A. Given enough time all A's get physical unless there exists some huge obstacle but even then "life finds a way."

 

Commitment and I would change "convenience" to mean much more as in financial stability, assets and then move on to kids and such... all of which are not addictions but take work and can be some of the hardest challenges we face, there is no chemical stimuli or euphoric ramp up, there are no secrets and lies with the other half of the relationship we build. Most of all, those things for which you try to make a moral equivalent are the things the affair relationship cheats itself of.

 

A lot of people also associate affairs with love chemicals and addiction. Honestly, doesn't all relationships, even healthy marriages and BGRs, all have such elements? Withdrawals doesn't just occur in affair breakups, but in all types of breakups. We often associate withdrawal with affairs breakup in this forum because that's what we googled! But if you were to google just on the term 'withdrawal', you would realise it affects everybody, and in every relationships, including healthy ones. Similarly, love chemicals goes for even marriages. After sex with my H, I clearly feel closer and more bonded with him. If like what you guys mentioned, then isn't there something wrong with marriage since it's also chemical induced?

 

We will agree in only part as in most relationships will start with the euphoric chemical ramp up however, our needs and desires are at 100% to cover life's needs which does not exist when choosing an affair partner. The ups and downs of a marriage is not withdrawal but actual love, because love endures 100% of life's challenges even when it is betrayed, it let's the marriage see sun rise the next day. The very thing that failed when one chooses to seek an affair partner.

 

My point is that don't generalize these terms to just affairs. Affairs are often real, not a fog, and not just some chemical highs or addictions as what was claimed. Very often, BS have these misconceptions because when the WS are confronted, they often downplay the affairs to just fogs or addiction to minimize the impact of the R.

 

The affair fog is just as real as an online chat to having coffee and finally the hotel but being real does not take away the chemical euphoria that only faces a small slice of life for an out, which happens to be just as real, but being real is not the issue is it?

[BHsigh]

Just sharing from a WS point of view:

 

A lot of people would use the term 'affair fog' to generalize and downplay the affair relationship. However, if you were to read most of the posts by WS, you would realized that we hardly use this term. For short term affairs, yes, it would probably be so. But for long term affairs, do you suppose people really can get together for years in just a 'fog'?

 

Mine was only an one year affair, but I am sure it wasn't a fog. Neither my exMM thought so too when we had a talk about it after Dday. Most affairs are built on communication, thus resulting in EA. That is why you often heard how APs say they have a lot of emotional connection, because emotional intimacy is most often built on communication. They even claimed to be buddies, best friends, and soul mates, because of the close emotional intimacy they both shared. They would also say their APs understand them very well, thus they fall in love with them. My exMM calls me daily and we talked for 1-2 hours everyday for one year. And I meant talk, as in engaging and giving each other full attention.

 

Most affairs started because our spouse and us have lost that emotional intimacy. But as human beings, we all yearn for such closeness with someone, hence most of us fall into the traps of affairs when we found someone we can relate well too. Now I wouldn't say this is right, because we are supposed to turn back to our spouses and rebuilt what was lost. So if you would think again from another perspective, isn't marriage or any relationship supposed to be built on what these affairs are built on - communication? Affairs are wrong, but it doesn't discount the relationship because they are as real as two people coming together and investing in each other what should be invested in a relationship. So are affairs the 'fogs' or the 'real' relationship? How about marriage? When two married people are no longer investing in each other emotionally, could they be the ones actually living in the fog? Commitment may be the ones holding the marriage. But if the only reason holding onto the marriage is just commitment and convenience, then isn't that marriage a 'fog' too? Think over again. Purely PA however, is an exception and could be the result of the fog you guys mentioned.

 

A lot of people also associate affairs with love chemicals and addiction. Honestly, doesn't all relationships, even healthy marriages and BGRs, all have such elements? Withdrawals doesn't just occur in affair breakups, but in all types of breakups. We often associate withdrawal with affairs breakup in this forum because that's what we googled! But if you were to google just on the term 'withdrawal', you would realise it affects everybody, and in every relationships, including healthy ones. Similarly, love chemicals goes for even marriages. After sex with my H, I clearly feel closer and more bonded with him. If like what you guys mentioned, then isn't there something wrong with marriage since it's also chemical induced?

 

My point is that don't generalize these terms to just affairs. Affairs are often real, not a fog, and not just some chemical highs or addictions as what was claimed. Very often, BS have these misconceptions because when the WS are confronted, they often downplay the affairs to just fogs or addiction to minimize the impact of the R.

 

As to why APs want to keep the friendship after the A, that is usually in the beginning of the breakup. Do remember that A breakups are as devastating as any relationship breakup. Remember how you still want to remain friends when you just broke up with your ex in your younger days? You guys may not be together anymore, but you often still wish to be in that person's life still - to still care and know how the other person is doing. That's because although we have broke up, but we still have feelings for the person and still care for them. Also, it's part and parcel of the grief process - bargaining and denial stage. You may want to stay in contact hoping to rekindle the relationship. But you may also want to stay in contact even if both of you don't wish to revisit the relationship but still care for each other enough to still stay friends.

 

Remember how I mentioned most affairs are built on emotional intimacy? After a breakup, it doesn't erased the memory of the friendship and emotional intimacy you once shared. Very often, you missed your friend, and sometimes your best friend. Hence you try to keep them because you missed the friendship and it doesn't necessarily means they wish to rekindle the affair again by keeping the friendship. However, it takes time for them to realized that staying friends is almost impossible after that because not only it hurts the BS, but the temptation to restart the affair is always there due to the shared past. For WS, do take heart that these friendships often do not last because it is just too painful for the WS and his/her AP to stay friends, so they will part the friendship too. Very few can remained friends because it's too painful to remain friends after a breakup, which is the same in all types of relationships. Remember how you once said you wanted to stay as friends after breaking up with an ex but eventually backing away from their life because it's just too painful to remain friends? The last stage of grieving the end of a relationship is acceptance - when you accept that the end of the relationship is final. That's also when most APs back away from the friendship part, because they have finally accepted that they can no longer be in each other's lives.

 

Just sharing my thoughts

 

Thank you for your point of view Patna, it makes a lot of sense. I think that point of view tends to be downplayed out of sympathy for the BS, the only unwilling party of the three. That doesn't make it a false view though.

 

Just reading your thoughts from your perspective brings all of the pain back to the front of my mind and makes me think over whether R is worth it or not. But maybe that can be good.

 

Not blaming you one bit btw, I'm just writing thoughts on maybe why the "affair fog" is used do often. Maybe it is just a rationalization for the BS's in some cases. And yet in others I can believe that there truly is a fog.

[atreides]

It actually is not the point of view of the BS, but the point of view of the WS.

 

Fog in other words is not a BS term but a WS term, it comes form the WS whom have "come back from the brink" if you will to tell the story. From what i have see, it takes time but they realize as with what i was trying to say , it is dubbed "fog" because if it were "real" love, guilt would not be associated with the relationship. The inability to escape what is known as wrong is the addiction.

 

Clearly no one is saying that one is lying about how they feel or if they really have real feelings for their AP, although I would say there are a lot of men that have the gift of words from many WS stories i have read.

[gettingstronger]

A total generalization I know, but it seems from these boards and in my experience, women fall harder for the AP then men. Women seem to see these relationships as real and loving even after they end than men do. JMO and maybe why BH sigh you feel the way you do about the post. Do you see your wife and her emotions in Patnas words while it seems BWs are more like, no I don't see that from my husband. Do women react differently after dday than men?

[Hope Shimmers]

Thank you for your point of view Patna, it makes a lot of sense. I think that point of view tends to be downplayed out of sympathy for the BS, the only unwilling party of the three. That doesn't make it a false view though.

 

Just reading your thoughts from your perspective brings all of the pain back to the front of my mind and makes me think over whether R is worth it or not. But maybe that can be good.

 

Not blaming you one bit btw, I'm just writing thoughts on maybe why the "affair fog" is used do often. Maybe it is just a rationalization for the BS's in some cases. And yet in others I can believe that there truly is a fog.

 

Thank you for posting this and not tearing apart this WSs post because of a different point of view. I think all views have truth and are valuable.

 

As for whether R is worth it, I'm not in the same position but it seems to me that if both parties want it, then it's worth it. Maybe even result in something stronger than before. I am sorry for what you are going through.

[atreides]

My point is that don't generalize these terms to just affairs. Affairs are often real, not a fog, and not just some chemical highs or addictions as what was claimed. Very often, BS have these misconceptions because when the WS are confronted, they often downplay the affairs to just fogs or addiction to minimize the impact of the R.

 

Minimize the impact of R, wow... just the opposite, R is minimized by keeping a "friendship", addictions are powerful and by no means trivial.

 

As to why APs want to keep the friendship after the A, that is usually in the beginning of the breakup. Do remember that A breakups are as devastating as any relationship breakup. Remember how you still want to remain friends when you just broke up with your ex in your younger days? You guys may not be together anymore, but you often still wish to be in that person's life still - to still care and know how the other person is doing. That's because although we have broke up, but we still have feelings for the person and still care for them. Also, it's part and parcel of the grief process - bargaining and denial stage. You may want to stay in contact hoping to rekindle the relationship. But you may also want to stay in contact even if both of you don't wish to revisit the relationship but still care for each other enough to still stay friends.

 

Read what i highlighted, for the context of being single and healthy relationships when we are trying to discover and not burn our bridges sure, a good practice. But for a relationship that is admittedly wrong and suffered from guilt and to NOT minimize R, absolutely devastating.

 

 

Just sharing my thoughts

 

Thanks for sharing

[atreides]

Thank you for posting this and not tearing apart this WSs post because of a different point of view. I think all views have truth and are valuable.

 

As for whether R is worth it, I'm not in the same position but it seems to me that if both parties want it, then it's worth it. Maybe even result in something stronger than before. I am sorry for what you are going through.

 

But isn't that the point? Differing point of view, so long as we can respect each others position enough to reply, but it is another as with many threads i see, where so many times it is precluded by "please no statements about x"

 

The basis of which I made this thread is to question something that is already established as in the WS wants to R which means the affair is admitted to be wrong, therefore we have legitimate points from which to make and as with many WS whom have come a long way clearly admit to.

 

I think Fog which is a WS term is avoided in the early stages post D-Day but understood in time. I learned the term from many WS stories and it by no means invalidates what one may feel while in an affair. I hope no one is arguing that.

[Patna]

I think when you are in a relationship, be it affair or any others, you tend to feel very much in love with the person. This intensity of emotions intensify especially in the initial period immediately after a break up, especially for WS who had an Dday, because of the sudden loss. But given time and distance, these feelings do fade, not entirely, but definitely do gradually especially if the healing stages has begun. It has for me. And as I looked back at the former relationships I had when I was younger, it had the same repeated pattern. As healing or mc begins, so are you better to identify these feelings. You realized your feelings for your AP are not as strong as you imagined them to be, but they were real at that stage then. It doesn't mean I don't love him then. I do love him a lot, in fact more than I think I should, but definitely not as much as I thought I did. But a lot of articles I googled call it 'fog'. I wouldn't. I just think it's just a natural and normal process of healing and moving on from a relationship.

 

And during the R of my marriage, I was as guilty of using the term to downplay the A because these terms always almost do appear on every articles I googled about affairs and affairs recovery. So it's like one of those terms that stuck to our minds. Nowadays, Google is easy and most people does it in this tech-savvy age, so it's not uncommon your spouse read about this and brought it up during mc. It doesn't mean that I don't wish to reconcile by downplaying the A. But rather, I think it's my responsibility to heal and move on from my feelings towards AP without further hurting my spouse by describing in details how much I loved my AP then. Most mc would advise BS to ask questions about the A, but note they also always tell you that before asking, remember you can never take back that question and ignore what was truthfully answered. Most counsellors will also tell you that sometimes to move on, you need to know the truth but not the full details. That's why we answered truthfully but we don't go into full details but as a generalization or even to downplay it. The same idea why we refused to discuss about our sex experience or downplay it, is the same as why we refused to discuss in details about our emotional aspects. Because it hurts and is not necessary to move on and heal together.

[Hope Shimmers]

The basis of which I made this thread is to question something that is already established as in the WS wants to R which means the affair is admitted to be wrong, therefore we have legitimate points from which to make and as with many WS whom have come a long way clearly admit to.

 

Where did I ever say your points were not legitimate?

 

My post was directed at BHsigh and in response to what he said. I like his posts and they make me think. Sometimes posts from people who have gone through what he did do not have nearly so much ... what is the word.... ability to take in all sides and also respect that is given on an individual basis rather than a general one. I just like that about him, and it was meant for him (which is why I quoted him).

 

I think Fog which is a WS term is avoided in the early stages post D-Day but understood in time. I learned the term from many WS stories and it by no means invalidates what one may feel while in an affair. I hope no one is arguing that.

 

I don't know if anyone is arguing that, but if they are, it's their prerogative.

 

The reason I don't like the word 'fog' to explain this is because I never felt all this addictive lust that people keep referring to, even while in the A. The A was actually very difficult - we were long-distance and real life was definitely in our faces every day, leading to a lot of jealousy and arguments and just Not Fun.

[Furious]

A pattern i see to the many patterns involving affairs is the desire to be "friends" with the AP after D-Day.

 

This does not apply to all, but to those that chose to reconcile with your BS. Why do some of you wish to remain "friends" with your AP? Many of you are self-aware that you were used, that the love was nothing more than chemicals in many cases IE "fog" and in choosing to reconcile chose your spouse over your AP which is an oxymoron... i know ... ok reaffirming your commitment to your spouse.

 

In choosing to R with your BS and the fact that D-Day exists states and by admission that the affair was a mistake, so why expound on it with "friendship?"

I understand residual feelings of perceived "love" lust, rejection at times and the infamous quest to know you "meant something more"; but yearning for "friendship" is something a lot more and begs the question of why?

 

 

 

On my d-day I handed my husband his suitcase and wished him well. I was giving him his freedom and not only could he be "friends" with her, he could go be with her 24/7. He turned white....I guess it was the "fog" that turned his complexion whiter than white.

 

He called me a dozen times a day, which I did not respond to. I only communicated with him by text if it concerned our children. He left messages and wrote me letters, mentioning this "fog", which I had no clue about what the hell that meant. Is fog something to do with deceit, is fog a bullsh*t definition that is an excuse. Well...it was foggy and I couldn't see where I was going and I took a wrong turn and cheated on you...if the weather was clear this would never had happened.

 

After six weeks of him living in a hotel I agreed to one session of MC, boy was that a mistake. You can't fix a house that burned down by examining where the furniture was placed because the darn house is burnt down.

 

In that first MC session I suggested an open marriage as opposed to divorce. He was dead against an open marriage. I couldn't understand how he could be "friends" and intimate with this friend. Heck, I even suggested he invite his "friend" over and we could double date with a "friend" of mine.

 

I always thought that "friends" were people who cared for you, not people who cheated with you.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Furious

[Hope Shimmers]

After six weeks of him living in a hotel I agreed to one session of MC, boy was that a mistake. You can't fix a house that burned down by examining where the furniture was placed because the darn house is burnt down.

 

I love this analogy Furious! Can I borrow it sometimes?

 

I admire how strong you were in handling D-Day and afterwards. I probably would have just gotten screaming mad instead of being firm, decisive, and effective.

[atreides]

On my d-day I handed my husband his suitcase and wished him well. I was giving him his freedom and not only could he be "friends" with her, he could go be with her 24/7. He turned white....I guess it was the "fog" that turned his complexion whiter than white.

 

He called me a dozen times a day, which I did not respond to. I only communicated with him by text if it concerned our children. He left messages and wrote me letters, mentioning this "fog", which I had no clue about what the hell that meant. Is fog something to do with deceit, is fog a bullsh*t definition that is an excuse. Well...it was foggy and I couldn't see where I was going and I took a wrong turn and cheated on you...if the weather was clear this would never had happened.

 

After six weeks of him living in a hotel I agreed to one session of MC, boy was that a mistake. You can't fix a house that burned down by examining where the furniture was placed because the darn house is burnt down.

 

In that first MC session I suggested an open marriage as opposed to divorce. He was dead against an open marriage. I couldn't understand how he could be "friends" and intimate with this friend. Heck, I even suggested he invite his "friend" over and we could double date with a "friend" of mine.

 

I always thought that "friends" were people who cared for you, not people who cheated with you.

 

Ha, i love your analogy too, and agree.

 

The term FOG is indeed a WS term, i too when i first started reading on LS had no idea what it was until i read a few WS stories.

[atreides]

Where did I ever say your points were not legitimate?

 

My post was directed at BHsigh and in response to what he said. I like his posts and they make me think. Sometimes posts from people who have gone through what he did do not have nearly so much ... what is the word.... ability to take in all sides and also respect that is given on an individual basis rather than a general one. I just like that about him, and it was meant for him (which is why I quoted him).

 

 

 

I don't know if anyone is arguing that, but if they are, it's their prerogative.

 

The reason I don't like the word 'fog' to explain this is because I never felt all this addictive lust that people keep referring to, even while in the A. The A was actually very difficult - we were long-distance and real life was definitely in our faces every day, leading to a lot of jealousy and arguments and just Not Fun.

 

 

oh, sorry thought it was to me. There are exceptions, but IMO most of us do not know nor feel an addiction, but I would never say it delegitimatizes how you felt by any means. You did not say this, but i have read where the physical side of an affair is attributed to the "chemical high" but i would disagree, the "anticipation is almost always better than the event"

 

thanks for sharing

[Hope Shimmers]

oh, sorry thought it was to me. There are exceptions, but IMO most of us do not know nor feel an addiction, but I would never say it delegitimatizes how you felt by any means. You did not say this, but i have read where the physical side of an affair is attributed to the "chemical high" but i would disagree, the "anticipation is almost always better than the event"

 

thanks for sharing

 

Thanks too atreides. Being across the country from each other, the physical side of our A was definitely very infrequent.

[atreides]

I think when you are in a relationship, be it affair or any others, you tend to feel very much in love with the person. This intensity of emotions intensify especially in the initial period immediately after a break up, especially for WS who had an Dday, because of the sudden loss. But given time and distance, these feelings do fade, not entirely, but definitely do gradually especially if the healing stages has begun. It has for me. And as I looked back at the former relationships I had when I was younger, it had the same repeated pattern. As healing or mc begins, so are you better to identify these feelings. You realized your feelings for your AP are not as strong as you imagined them to be, but they were real at that stage then. It doesn't mean I don't love him then. I do love him a lot, in fact more than I think I should, but definitely not as much as I thought I did. But a lot of articles I googled call it 'fog'. I wouldn't. I just think it's just a natural and normal process of healing and moving on from a relationship.

 

I agree, your feelings are intense and very real and special to you at the time, but IMO i would not go as far as love, so much more involved with that word especially when it and how it endures.

 

FOG is not necessarily about the reality of the feelings but how they are placed in the context of "knowing" what you are doing and wanting to hold on to it knowing you shouldn't. I learned it here on LS form a WS story.

 

IMO, "pain" can and is most important to grow from, it generates the strength and very fibers for what was originally wronged. It is great to see you healing and again thanks for sharing

[underpants]

Duh, same reason they want to reconcile....CAKE.

[not-so-sure]

Minimize the impact of R, wow... just the opposite, R is minimized by keeping a "friendship", addictions are powerful and by no means trivial.

 

I think the word "of" was used instead of "on".

 

Mine was a very powerful relationship. It wasn't healthy, but that's not to say it wasn't a relationship. I did the same thing. I've downplayed its importance to my wife in the R process. My journey in moving past that is mine to take. I confessed to my affair, I don't need to share with my wife all my feelings about the AP at this point.

Read what i highlighted, for the context of being single and healthy relationships when we are trying to discover and not burn our bridges sure, a good practice. But for a relationship that is admittedly wrong and suffered from guilt and to NOT minimize R, absolutely devastating.

 

 

Just sharing my thoughts

 

Thanks for sharing

 

A relationship nonetheless, and one that needs grieving. I would be surprised if any WS who was in a "fog" could simply switch off the emotional tap.

[atreides]

A relationship nonetheless, and one that needs grieving. I would be surprised if any WS who was in a "fog" could simply switch off the emotional tap.

 

Yea no way they could and call it any form of a "meaningful relationship."

 

What do you think of those and did this apply to you in that you had no intention of leaving your family while starting and going in the A and if so does that change the rationale for at least what kind of relationship you expected it to be then and how you perceive it now?