Is it love or sex?

[Cheating101]

This week has been a nightmare. I had to face that my husband of 15 years, dated for 5, has been having an on and off affair for the past 30 years. He was married but living separately when when met. We moved in together and married very soon after divorce was final.

 

Early in our marriage, I was diagnosed with MS. Since MS begins in the central nervous system, sex became more and more difficult as symptoms developed. We have only limited physical closeness but otherwise I considered us a happy connected couple.

 

He is 12 years older and retired last year. My job takes me out of town 2-3 days a month. Recently I began to suspect something was not right. I saw a strange text on his phone, that he attempted to explain away. I caught him in small lies about where he had been and with whom. But none of the classic "signs of a cheater" were there. Phone records were in line etc. no unusual expenses

 

Then this past Thursday my trip was canceled at the last minute. I called his cell to tell him and suggest we meet in the city for dinner. He didn't answer which was very strange as he keeps his phone with him at all times. Headed home and Continued to phone for the next few hours until worry set in and I called his best friend. They had work together for decades and often helped each other with home improvement projects or went fishing. He told me he hadn't been able to reach him earlier but thought nothing of it.

 

Around midnight I heard his motorcycle pull in and I went to meet him in the garage. When I opened the door, it was clear I surprised him and he quickly tried to hide a duffle bag. Something told me the key to his absence was in the bag and I walked over and opened it. Inside was a wide variety of sex toys, ropes and handcuffs. Defiantly not something he would have purchased for me.

 

I spent the next few hours yelling, crying, demanding answers, crying, hitting him, crying. It eventually came out that he has a role playing sexual relationship with a woman and it had been on and off affair for 25 years. He was sleeping with her before we married, stopped for a few years, then 12 years ago got involved again, seeing her 3-4 times a months. He says he cares for her but loves me. Says she is just a dear friend who enjoys the same hobby?!? She gave him the sex I couldn't.

 

I feel like I am dealing with a stranger. How do you sleep with someone for 25 years and act like its normal? Can he really just see her for sex? I can't believe he has this other life. Was our entire marriage a sham? What do I do now? He's spent the last few night with his work buddy and one minute I want him home and the next I never want to look at him again! Help!

[No Limit]

Never make someone a priority who makes you an option. And the fact that you two married shortly after his divorce wasn't a good headstart for your marriage to begin with, if you can even call it a marriage that is.

 

He's been having his cake and eating it too for 30 years and has pulled that off in his earlier marriage as well. He's had 30 years to get used to cheating. If you are looking for a faithful partner, it's not him.

 

And I dare him make excuses about your condition. He knew damn well what MS would mean in the long run and if he couldn't live up with that he should have damn well been a man for once in his life and broken up.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how there's reconciliation with a serial cheater of 30 years. His cheating isn't a fallout, it's a habit.

[dichotomy]

We have only limited physical closeness but otherwise I considered us a happy connected couple.

 

 

He cheated - he is wrong of course.

 

but this statement of yours is contradictory.

[fellini]

That's strange, because I understood it in a second. Maybe it's women, but this is exactly how my WS talks about connection as well.

 

He cheated - he is wrong of course.

 

but this statement of yours is contradictory.

[VeronicaRoss]

First of all, I'm so sorry. This is one awful discovery. I'm going to imagine MS gets affected by stress, I hope you're doing whatever is in your power to reduce your stress right now.

 

Your question was is it love or sex? If you think a man or woman can only love one person at a time, that's mistaken. It's not about him choosing 'who he loves'. His most successful, long-term romantic relationship with the ef buddy, that's for sure.

 

People are in different types of relationships to fit various needs. He clearly needs this kind of sex with someone he doesn't live with as a husband. So he has wives too. He probably sees all of those relationships as loving. Arguing with him otherwise will only sink your energy into a no-win. You're facing the reality of who you married, and it's far from what you would have accepted if you had been given the opportunity to know.

 

The problem is that his relationship with you was exploitative because you didn't know he was having sex with someone else. His secrecy might be part of his need for the thrill. Your disease isn't on the table as an excuse, it's not one he waited to have to be unfaithful. So don't let this become about your condition. I agree with the other person though who questioned your insistence that the MS made it ok not to be sexual. You don't have to have intercourse to be sexual. So that's something you two will need to discuss if you want to make it work, you're going to have to be willing to be more sexual it seems.

 

The question you have in front of you is are you willing to be married to a man with this extra sexual relationship and who thrives in secrecy. This one relationship might be the tip of his iceberg.

 

You're in complete control, it's just the decisions ahead are not ones you want to make. I'm just sorry for the huge loss of trust you are experiencing. The world is tough enough without this kind of thing.

Edited April 7, 2014 by VeronicaRoss

[Arieswoman]

Hello Cheating 101,

I am sorry that your life has been turned upside down by this discovery.

 

I'm afraid that I can't see a way to fix this and I think you should be making plans to separate and divorce.

 

He has sexual preferences that you do not subscribe to and he has been dishonest about his needs in this area.

 

He has behaved like a selfish, self-serving individual, who has put his own needs before you and your marriage. You need to get him out of your home and your life as quickly as possible.

 

Please get counselling to deal with the emotional aspect of this.

 

I am sorry you are in this position but you must not waste any more of your life with this man, he doesn't deserve you.

 

Good Luck.

[excusememister]

I feel like I am dealing with a stranger. How do you sleep with someone for 25 years and act like its normal? Can he really just see her for sex? I can't believe he has this other life. Was our entire marriage a sham? What do I do now? He's spent the last few night with his work buddy and one minute I want him home and the next I never want to look at him again! Help!

 

Cheating ,

My WH had an on/off relationship with OW for 9-years. When I met my WH, he was dating the OW. I didn't know about her. Me and WH lived 4 hours away; he and OW lived in the same city. It was convenient for WH to carry on this duplicity. Even after WH and I became engaged, he continued to see the OW once or twice a month.

 

A few months before we were married, WH moved to my home state. Even after we were married, he still continued to see her; about once a year. Although there was practically no physical contact because of distance, they did engage in lots of email and text. This all stopped on DDay - November 10th, 2013.

 

I recently decided to R with WH. We have been in IC since DDay and we just started MC to rebuild our marriage.

 

You asked "can he really see her just for sex". My WH admitted in counseling that his relationship with OW was purely physical. They never went out; never out to dinner; never to a movie; they never shared a holiday/birthday; he never bought her a gift/card; never gave her money.

 

Just like you, I wondered if my marriage was a sham. I also felt like I was dealing with a stranger; I didn't know who my husband was. I had trusted my entire being to my husband and now I was facing the most horrid betrayal imaginable. I was ready to file for D.

 

It has been 5 months since DDay and my WH has jumped through hoops to show that he is remorseful and repentant; taking full responsibility for his actions. He immediately ended all contact with the OW. He attends weekly IC, we are now in MC, he attends a weekly men's support group; reads lots of books on infidelity; is completely transparent, and he is eagerly engaging in the recovery and rebuilding of our marriage.

 

I thoroughly understand your statement "we were a completely happy and connected couple. Despite my WH's A, we were a completely happy and connected couple. Most marriages that survive infidelity are those that shared a genuine love and affection toward one another; who had good communication and felt closely connected to each other.

 

You also asked: "What do I do now"...

Since you are vacillating (missing him one minute; can't stand to look at him the next), don't do anything right now regarding your marriage. It has only been a week. When you don't know what to do, don't do anything. You probably feel like you are spinning out of control right now - you need to do something concerning your emotional well being - get into counseling immediately.

 

Is your WH remorseful/repentant? Has he cut off all contact with the OW? It is key that he gets into counseling. Your WH needs help in addressing his behavior; his secret life; what lies beneath all of this.

 

If he is willing to listen and talk, AND BE HONEST, then ask him millions of questions. Lean on family and friends for support and find a qualified counselor. Take your time in trying to process all of this.

 

Oh...and by the way, it may never make sense. I'm still trying to make sense of this

 

All the best to you!

[Spectre]

I don't know if he loves the person he cheated with, but I do know he doesn't love you very much.

[fellini]

I dont know what it is about spring but it sure is bringing out BS attitudes that definately have an agenda to push the limits of advice and what can possibly be known in this forum.

 

Maybe you should share with OP your incredible ability to know what is going on in her WS's head.

 

Common sense would dictate that you can tell us as much truth as you like about your experience with infidelity, but this does not allow you access into the inner workings of someone else's personal story. And in fact the OP isnt in a good position to tell us either, HENCE HER DESIRE TO KNOW.

 

 

I don't know if he loves the person he cheated with, but I do know hde doesn't love you very much.

[frogss29]

Is it the sex or the TYPE of sex he has been having with someone else that is upsetting you the most?

I know I am going to sound a little crazy but it sounds to me like he WAS sharing a hobby with someone else.

You say you had a good marriage apart from sex.

You always felt he loved you.

When discovered, he told you the truth. More than he had to.

So, from the limited knowledge of your situation, sounds to me like he loves you, enjoyed his hobby with a good friend

Doesn't make what you discovered any easier

[gettingstronger]

As hard as it is, whatever you had was not real. Now you can start again, but do you want to?

 

 

You don't know that. His actions post dday will tell all. Men tend to end up with the person they love. I wish you all the strength and peace you will need

Edited April 8, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fixed quote

[Cheating101]

Thank you all for responding. I am taking things slow and considering all the advice each of you have shared.

[Tullyseptember]

C101, you do have a real life with your partner. I'm sure in the last 20 years you yourself can attest to countless actions that would show you what your real life with your husband consisted of. It doesn't seem to me that you having MS has anything to do with what your husband has hidden all these years. Only your husband can answer what love means to him, not faceless user names replying with certainty on how a total stranger feels. Hugs C101, take some time to breathe and step back from this

[BHsigh]

I dont know what it is about spring but it sure is bringing out BS attitudes that definately have an agenda to push the limits of advice and what can possibly be known in this forum.

 

Maybe you should share with OP your incredible ability to know what is going on in her WS's head.

 

Common sense would dictate that you can tell us as much truth as you like about your experience with infidelity, but this does not allow you access into the inner workings of someone else's personal story. And in fact the OP isnt in a good position to tell us either, HENCE HER DESIRE TO KNOW.

 

Hi Fellini, I respect your opinion on this, you sound like you view live as purely emotional, (I may be wrong of course, and I apologize if I am). But many people (me included of course) view love according to the psychological definition of love.

 

Basically there are three components of love, there is intimacy, passion and commitment. "Marital" love usually begins with all three at a fairly equal level, and this is categorized as consummate love.

 

Over time the main components become intimacy and commitment, and passion becomes a lesser component than the other two (but still viable of course, just not as much) this is then defined as companionate love, which is the longest lasting part of marital love. Think about those two parts, intimacy and commitment. There you have an emotion and an action as the two main components of the main marriage driving love. (intimacy is defined as feelings of closeness, such as with family, friends and of course your partner).

 

So that is why Spectre and others will say that the WS doesn't love the BS, at least during the affair. Without the commitment aspect of love, the BS is relegated to maybe just intimacy, and in many cases even less than that. We can view it this way regardless of whether we are a BS or not.

 

This is not to say that this cannot change, of course it can. In plenty of cases the WS regains the true aspects of love for their partner.

 

So, going by the exact definitions of love, I can reliably tell OP that her husband did not love her as he should, he lacked the commitment to have true consummate or companionate love for OP, hence the "he does not or did not love you". Though I suppose we should technically say that he does not love her in a way that he needs to for there to be a true marriage.

 

OP, as I said above, your husband can regain or form real love towards you, but he has to put action behind the emotions.

[gettingstronger]

Now BH sigh- I respect and enjoy your posts but honestly what the poster meant was just what she said- it was a mean spirited swipe with very little thought in behind it-

 

As for the OP- I was thinking on this- I think your medical condition makes your H feel powerless-powerless to help so he sought power the way lots of men do-through sex- it was wrong and selfish

 

I still believe that his true feelings will be revealed through his future actions-I agree with you on taking it slow and seeing what happens next-

 

None of can say for sure whats going on in his mind-he probably does not even know-but how he acts from here on out will help guide your actions on what to do next-

[BHsigh]

Now BH sigh- I respect and enjoy your posts but honestly what the poster meant was just what she said- it was a mean spirited swipe with very little thought in behind it-

 

Fair enough Perhaps I was in too good of a mood and didn't read into it enough, so fair point.

 

But hey, I was at least able to explain to the OP my thoughts on her husbands love/lack of love.

 

OP,

 

People can definitely have relationships that are just based on sex, with no feelings involved. However, that is a long, long time for a non-emotional, sex based relationship, that just boggles me profusely. Perhaps I'm wrong and have just never experienced that, but I wouldn't trust it to be true.

 

I'm really not sure what to say OP, it's bad enough for an affair to be a month long, a week or even just one night. But a 25 year affair?!?!? In my experience, I sure couldn't stick around after that, but that is your choice of course. But he will need to make sure that he backs everything up with actions, and not just talk.

[goodyblue]

Ahh, I love pop psychology. Everyone has all the answers, quoting everyone they can think of that supports their view.

 

OP, only you can decide what you can handle. My advice? Don't do anything rash. Wait. See how you feel.

 

I wish you much luck in whatever you decide.

[gettingstronger]

Never read mills an boon, sigh...

 

 

However, I agree with the others that state we have no idea what's going on in WS head. To me, it sounds like convenience as he had the chance to be with the OW prior to the OP. Who knows, all I know from experience is that time and actions will tell. OP you also have the benefit of time and action. Now that you have the truth about your life, you have control over what you want to do. Take your time and put you first.

[BHsigh]

Ahh, I love pop psychology. Everyone has all the answers, quoting everyone they can think of that supports their view.

 

My psychology 101 textbook very interesting stuff in there on human emotions, learning, cognitive states etc. But I am by no means an expert, (I'm not majoring in psychology) I just know that, to me at least, commitment is a required part of committed love, but that may not be the same for everyone.

 

But they do have a point OP, in your husbands mind, he may feel that he is committed to you still, it doesn't excuse it of course, but that is up to you to decide what you can work through.

[fellini]

Thanks for the lesson in what love "means" for psychologists, but I think your definition falls short on something.

 

If we go with the 3 ingredients theory, then we have to take what some have done with that idea, for example Robert Sternberg, and we have to imagine that these three ingredients

may or may not exist in any one person

may or may not exist in equal quantities/qualities

may exist in different quantities/qualities over the span of a relationship

may or may not be required by the other, at the same time they are being offered, of the same quality required by the other

 

etc. etc.

 

Imagine a truly loving Spouse. She has been "depositing" (for arguments sake) equal and high "quality" amounts of intimacy, passion, and committment in here relationship with her husband. He is a happy man. 17 years later, intimacy is more or less a given, commitment is never better, and passion, well, when it happens, its great.

 

She starts to get attracted to a co-worker who suddenly sees her as interesting because of some not so important thing that goes on there and suddenly she is having lunches and coffees and talking with a guy who is feeding her with doses of his intimacy... So she begins to withdraw ever so slightly her "daily deposits" of intimacy that she saved exclusively for her husband. Push comes to shove, they land in a full blown affair, and she no longer shows she is capable of meeting your 3 requisites for love. She has placed it outside the marriage and is only doing the minimum necessary to keep things at home appear like the marriage still has commitment, some passion, and a little intimacy on the side.

 

I think we can see that just naming three ingredients of love doesn't help us to understand the dynamics, the changing ratios, the shifting desires and needs in a marriage for EACH and between and among the 2. There are just too many variables and some of them can be switched on and off like a light switch, making it impossible to say IF someone WAS in LOVE, still IS in love but unable to show or express it, or has SHIFTED their LOVE, or has DIVIDED their love across two relationships.

 

 

 

My psychology 101 textbook very interesting stuff in there on human emotions, learning, cognitive states etc. But I am by no means an expert, (I'm not majoring in psychology) I just know that, to me at least, commitment is a required part of committed love, but that may not be the same for everyone.

 

But they do have a point OP, in your husbands mind, he may feel that he is committed to you still, it doesn't excuse it of course, but that is up to you to decide what you can work through.

[Spectre]

I dont know what it is about spring but it sure is bringing out BS attitudes that definately have an agenda to push the limits of advice and what can possibly be known in this forum.

 

Maybe you should share with OP your incredible ability to know what is going on in her WS's head.

 

Common sense would dictate that you can tell us as much truth as you like about your experience with infidelity, but this does not allow you access into the inner workings of someone else's personal story. And in fact the OP isnt in a good position to tell us either, HENCE HER DESIRE TO KNOW.

 

Common sense would dictate if you love someone you don't cheat on them. So not sure why you mention it.

[fellini]

And we continue to learn that what we call common sense turned out to be nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

People cheat on those they love.

People cheat on those they don't love.

People cheat on those they say don't love them (enough), even though they claim to love them

People cheat on people.

 

It has nothing to do with LOVE.

 

Common sense would dictate if you love someone you don't cheat on them. So not sure why you mention it.

[2sunny]

Thank you all for responding. I am taking things slow and considering all the advice each of you have shared.

 

What is your plan?

 

You either stay with a known cheater for your entire time you've been together - or you have him leave knowing the relationship has never been what you THOUGHT IT WAS.

 

Which is it?

[Spectre]

And we continue to learn that what we call common sense turned out to be nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

People cheat on those they love.

People cheat on those they don't love.

People cheat on those they say don't love them (enough), even though they claim to love them

People cheat on people.

 

It has nothing to do with LOVE.

 

It shouldn't be wishful thinking that you do not cheat on and betray someone you love. It has everything to do with love. If you are truly in love with someone you will fight like HELL to keep them in your life. You will not risk losing everything just to sleep with another person. You just won't. It very much has to do with love and respect.

 

How does it look if we as a society EXPECT those we love to betray us? That is essentially what it sounds like you are saying. It doesn't matter if someone is in love, sooner or later they will cheat because people are people and we all have urges. Please, sounds like a lot of baloney to me. People have choices, we can choose whether or not we use these fancy parts we all have. We can choose who we use them on and how often. Nothing forces us to do so.

[fellini]

This is EXACTLY what is going on though, and you continue to talk like you do not know what is actually happening.

 

It might work for you that you have this ideal vision of what love and marriage are, and we all know about the "happily ever after" and "until death do us part" promise made at the alter. Surely we can see that what people say and what people are prepared to actually DO are equally important?

 

Think about for a moment what infidelity means in the US vs other places, most notably Europe. What meaning people ascribe to how they live their lives is fundamental to understanding what is going on in our LTR's. Think of your neighbour on the left who is a devout catholic and on the other side an authentic mormon who believes in their polygamous rights. What has your (or mine) singular concept of love got to do with any of this? Pretty much nothing more than an exaggerated sense of self in a dreamworld where we rely on the strength of some words spoken in ritual in a ceremony itself full of material nonsense: white wedding, bachelor party, gifts from Tiffany, father giving away the bride like he owns her, the ministry pretending he has the authority to declare "man and wife" (oh, true in some places they accepted the change to "husband and wife"), when it is ACTUALLY the state that is the sole authority. All of this pomp and circumstance so that we what? Hold a blind trust belief that our chosen partner will love us and stay with us and not cheat on us until death do us part. Nice gig: now I dont have to do anything in my marriage because my wife has made her vows. Period.

 

Meanwhile the culture is telling us about the importance of family, and at the same time destroying it. It celebrates movies about being invited to BBQ's and others where we are invited to BE the BBQ. It shows brotherly love, and a brother slicing up his sibling for profit. It shows us a perfect disney family and at the same time a desparate suburban housewife and a Wall street Wolf with their 2 year affairs on the side. We get Barney and Mr. Dressup and we get serial child killers and movies like Prisoners, pedophiles, rapists, husband abuse, wife abuse, incest, it goes on and on.

 

One cannot live in this world and not see the incredible schizophrenia of N.American culture in terms of its ideas about "true love". So, its no wonder our world looks more like this:

 

Percent of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional 41 %

Percent of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they’ve had 57 %

Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they’ve had 54 %

Percentage of men and women who admit to having an affair with a co-worker 36 %

Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity on business trips 35%

Average length of an affair 2 years

 

Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught 68 %

 

Were is the "love" Spectre? I don't see it. What I see is a social problem bigger than any of us wants to admit. I see that instead of living in a naive dreamworld "happily ever after" that its time to wake up and smell the coffee because a rose is just a rose and this problem is not going to go away if we blindly trust our vows at the alter. Nor our concept of love as some kind of defense system.

 

We need radar from the day we commit. We need to know that any of the above can happen at any time. This does not mean we must EXPECT IT, it means simply not being so silly as to NOT ANTICIPATE the POSSIBILITY that our dearly beloved S might make a move.

 

 

 

It shouldn't be wishful thinking that you do not cheat on and betray someone you love. It has everything to do with love. If you are truly in love with someone you will fight like HELL to keep them in your life. You will not risk losing everything just to sleep with another person. You just won't. It very much has to do with love and respect.

 

How does it look if we as a society EXPECT those we love to betray us? That is essentially what it sounds like you are saying. It doesn't matter if someone is in love, sooner or later they will cheat because people are people and we all have urges. Please, sounds like a lot of baloney to me. People have choices, we can choose whether or not we use these fancy parts we all have. We can choose who we use them on and how often. Nothing forces us to do so.