She KNOWS now!

April 3, 2014

Well, the wife knows now and apparently she has been known about me and the baby. It has gotten really messy now.

I would think messy would be something to be avoided.

She had to been watching me the whole time I was there from 7:30 to 12 that night. I believe she's been on my facebook thats the only way she would have known I would be there. I made a police report.

Here is here you need to begin to examine your own thought processes and how YOU contribute to this mess.

I have read the thread and now know it is highly unlikely that she followed you there and spied upon you the entire time - in fact only attending for the sole purpose of stalking you. Yet YOU believe this to be the case. Its that ego-centric thought process which you need to get a handle on.

The next night ex-mm's cousin inboxed me and questioned me about our daughter. She wanted to know why I havent tried to get her around her family I told her to talk to him about that.

Why are you engaging?

You need only speak to the child's father.

Yet - you now, per this, have a written record of being hostile towards a reasonable request concerning the child. Honestly, there is a vague impression of USING the child as a pawn. And if I can sense it - you better believe their lawyer will.

Then a couple of days later, the wife sends me a friend request on FB. I inboxed her and told her that we were not friends and whatever she wanted to say to me she could. She told me that she posted something for me to read. I told her I wasnt accepting her request. I told her we could talk like women about this. She went crazy, she told me to kill myself, she called my daughters B**** and the next time she sees me she's going to beat my a$$! I didnt respond I called the police, police officer came and he told me to put myself in her shoes and she's probably just upset and mad. I said I understand that but she threatened me. So he went and arrested her.

I agree with calling the police.

She made threats and one must ALWAYS assume they are real.

This, to me, was the correct course of action to take.

Another correct course of action to take- take a time out from Facebook. If this is one way they can reach you and cyber stalk you - deny them that and take a break from it.

I went to put a restraining order on her, because I do feel threatened at this point and I have to look out for the safety of me and my daughters.

I'm not certain one threat will suffice. But we will soon find out.

THEN, this past monday I get a inbox message from ex-mm. He says that he has an atty to not only get a DNA test but to investigate me and I told him to bring it on, I have one too. Then he kept responding with other stuff and asked for my phone number. He has my number so at this point Im starting to think that it was his wife.

My advice is to cease all contact with them and hire a competent family law atty. Just as taking a physical threat of harm is serious - so is when the "other party" engages or claims to engage legal counsel. You may say or do something, inadvertently or in anger, which jeopardizes your legal position.

Completely ignore them until you have retained a lawyer - if you have retained one, then ask your atty to contact xMM. Let your atty be the intermediary.

Its crazy that he would say something after all this time especially when Im not bothering them.

You don't get it.

YOU DO BOTHER THEM. Or at least the BS.

And NOTHING you say or do will stop that. Ever.

We go to court next week for the restraining order, Im so nervous. I dont know what to expect at this point.

I am of the opinion that both parties will be told to stop acting like drama queens and knock it off - no petition granted. It will, be an on-the-record smear fest and no one will look good.

Also, I got a letter about the CS I should start receiving it in less than 30 days.

Good.

What do you all think about all of this?

I think you are exacerbating this. I hope not deliberately.

There is some jeopardy to custody. I know you said two atty's said otherwise - but where the YOUR lawyers (ie retained nad duty bound to provide competent legal advice) - or just lawyers speaking off the cuff?

And here's why I ask - no lawyer will EVER promise an outcome. EVER. They can't. Simply because the decision is either the jury's (yikes!) or the Judge's (even more yikes!). I would further opine that you never seek counsel from those lawyers again - they are understating the risk of his custody.

What has he done that proves, in the eye's of the court, he is an unfit parent? Not his W, HIM.

See where I'm going....

April 3, 2014

Okay her confronting me out of no where already ready for a confrontation. How is that respectful? Obviously if she was able to find me on FB, she could have inboxed me a long time ago and found out what was going on. But no she didn't do that she wanted a public altercation and I wasn't going to fight with her. No i didn't overreact. I didn't know that a few days later she do what she did on FB.

Tell me what would you have done?

I've had empathy. I went on quietly had my baby and did what I was supposed to do. If I had stood on his door step with the baby, caused a scene, or etc. I could see all of this but leave me alone. I'm not going to go back and forth. I'll get the police involved faster than you can spin your head.

I understand getting police involved if you truly feel threatened. If be careful of calling them if something shows up on your fb or y'all happen to be in the same area. Too many calls won't work in your favor.

A restraining order doesn't last for 18 years. If he tries to be a part if your daughters life, eventually she as his wife will also be part if her life. Especially if they have a good lawyer fighting for them

Can I just ask (if you're willing to talk to her like you said). Why didn't you read what she wrote to you? Why not accept her friend request, read her message then unfriend her. I would think that would've been easier than talking face to face like I'm understanding you wanted.

April 3, 2014

I wouldn't bet on that. Judges base many of their opinions on their own set of values and life experiences, particularly with respect to issues involving children. If it goes the way you are hoping and she will not have access, you should expect that her H will not want anything to do with the child and that your daughter will not have any relationship with her half-siblings.

I hope you getting his poor wife arrested puts an end to your anger. Maybe now you can find some peace.

I'm not angry at anyone God has been good to me honey even after all of this and my wrong doing he has still shown me favor!

If he doesn't who cares! My daughter doesn't need a piece of crap in her life like him no way. Let him continue to take the cowardly way out. Wife got her own self arrested. I could have inboxed him a long time ago and told him I'm going to get someone to eff you up and kick your a$$, that's a threat. I know better than that. Them people can go live in bliss who gives a crap as long as me and my kids are safe, I'm okay with that.

April 3, 2014

I understand getting police involved if you truly feel threatened. If be careful of calling them if something shows up on your fb or y'all happen to be in the same area. Too many calls won't work in your favor.

A restraining order doesn't last for 18 years. If he tries to be a part if your daughters life, eventually she as his wife will also be part if her life. Especially if they have a good lawyer fighting for them

Can I just ask (if you're willing to talk to her like you said). Why didn't you read what she wrote to you? Why not accept her friend request, read her message then unfriend her. I would think that would've been easier than talking face to face like I'm understanding you wanted.

I'm not sure if you know how FB works. She was really being malicious because obviously you don't have to friends with someone to send them a message. I told her you can inbox me whatever it is you wanted to say I told her I understand how you feel and I willing to talk like grown women. I think she really wanted to embarrass me and start the back and forth FB stuff.

Did I mention she also told me to "kill myself" at that point I

was done. I didn't want a face to face confrontation. Maybe sheH did that's why she approached me at the concert first instead of FB.

Read in another post what I said about the custody issue. I don't want to keep repeating the same thing.

April 3, 2014

Wife got her own self arrested

It is good that you recognize that people are responsible for the consequences of their poor choices. Maybe this will help you accept that you are responsible for the position that you are in and you can move forward in a healthier, less angry manner.

April 3, 2014

People who "say things in the heat of the moment" are the same people who "do things in the heat of the moment." Violent things sometimes.

OP, you were wise to take it seriously when you were hunted down at the concert and threatened later. And wise to begin a paper trail with police reports.

April 3, 2014

She was on my FB where I had pics of my red hair. We were seated in the front of the venue. When I got up to go to the bathroom, I'm assuming that's when she spotted me.

If she wasn't watching me then how would she just pop out of nowhere on the side of the car at my door. In the FB message she also said that she had the license plate of the car I was in, that wasn't even my car.

You need to make your account private, then. If she's not your friend, the only way she can see anything is if you're public. Then I would question why someone in your situation would have a public profile. Something doesn't add up, though.

And back to this first police report, because it's pretty relevant. If you filed a police report on her for no reason, as you said she didn't threaten you, i can see how it would enflame the situation. I wouldn't take too kindly to someone calling the police on me when all I've done is approach them in public.

I had asked before as well: how are your other kids dealing with the new baby sister?

April 3, 2014

Also you can't go around slandering somebody's name and defaming someone's character. Just by her posting about me on HER FB I could have gotten her for that if i just wanted to be spiteful. I don't care what she puts out there about me. I was concerned about the threats only. Then to tell me to kill myself no ma'am.

April 3, 2014

What do you all think about all of this?

Considering your existing children, including the infant in question, my advice would be to focus on them and let the RO play out and leave your lawyer to handle the nuts and bolts of that and any custody/visitation actions.

In most states infidelity is not a compelling reason to consider a parent unfit, so exMM will have the same bucket of parental rights and responsibilities as any other man accepting fatherhood or being adjudicated of it. If DCF, or similar agency in your state, has already sought a garnishee or judgment against him for CS, which you stated would be starting in less than 30 days, then part of his bucket of responsibilities and rights has been fulfilled, with the other part being visitation and custody arrangements.

IMO, I wouldn't expect things to go swimmingly with the betrayed spouse; that said, they have a responsibility to follow the law or be sanctioned for breaking it. If you communicate with the couple only through your lawyer, then any such breaks will be glaringly obvious and easily brought to the appropriate official's attention. As in any legal action, document, document, document.

The children are the innocent ones here; I'd break my back to see their innocence preserved. Whatever it takes. Good luck!

April 3, 2014

Also you can't go around slandering somebody's name and defaming someone's character

Actually, as long as what she is posting/saying is factually true, she can legally say it. There is nothing you can do about her stating the truth. She can also give her opinion, as long as she makes it clear that the statement is just her opinion.

April 3, 2014

Also you can't go around slandering somebody's name and defaming someone's character. Just by her posting about me on HER FB I could have gotten her for that if i just wanted to be spiteful. I don't care what she puts out there about me. I was concerned about the threats only. Then to tell me to kill myself no ma'am.

slan·der

/ˈslændər/ [/url] Show Spelled [slan-der] Show IPA

noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.

2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name .

3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.

de·fame

/dɪˈfeɪm/ Show Spelled [dih-feym] Show IPA verb (used with object), de·famed, de·fam·ing. 1. to attack the good name or reputation of, as by uttering or publishing maliciously or falsely anything injurious; slander or libel; calumniate: The newspaper editorial defamed the politician.

2. Archaic. to disgrace; bring dishonor upon.

3. Archaic. to accuse.

These words do not fit. If she stated that you had an affair with her husband and had a "love child" with him....then it is true.

April 3, 2014

Also you can't go around slandering somebody's name and defaming someone's character. Just by her posting about me on HER FB I could have gotten her for that if i just wanted to be spiteful. I don't care what she puts out there about me. I was concerned about the threats only. Then to tell me to kill myself no ma'am.

Honey it is only slander if it is untrue. And it obly really matters if it affects your business or ability to get a job and prove it.

You need to get this anger out productively. It creates a hostile enviromet that isn't healthy for you are your children.

April 3, 2014

I would think messy would be something to be avoided.

Here is here you need to begin to examine your own thought processes and how YOU contribute to this mess.

I have read the thread and now know it is highly unlikely that she followed you there and spied upon you the entire time - in fact only attending for the sole purpose of stalking you. Yet YOU believe this to be the case. Its that ego-centric thought process which you need to get a handle on.

Why are you engaging?
You need only speak to the child's father.
Yet - you now, per this, have a written record of being hostile towards a reasonable request concerning the child. Honestly, there is a vague impression of USING the child as a pawn. And if I can sense it - you better believe their lawyer will.

I agree with calling the police.
She made threats and one must ALWAYS assume they are real.
This, to me, was the correct course of action to take.

Another correct course of action to take- take a time out from Facebook. If this is one way they can reach you and cyber stalk you - deny them that and take a break from it.

I'm not certain one threat will suffice. But we will soon find out.

My advice is to cease all contact with them and hire a competent family law atty. Just as taking a physical threat of harm is serious - so is when the "other party" engages or claims to engage legal counsel. You may say or do something, inadvertently or in anger, which jeopardizes your legal position.

Completely ignore them until you have retained a lawyer - if you have retained one, then ask your atty to contact xMM. Let your atty be the intermediary.

You don't get it.
YOU DO BOTHER THEM. Or at least the BS.
And NOTHING you say or do will stop that. Ever.

I am of the opinion that both parties will be told to stop acting like drama queens and knock it off - no petition granted. It will, be an on-the-record smear fest and no one will look good.

Good.

I think you are exacerbating this. I hope not deliberately.
There is some jeopardy to custody. I know you said two atty's said otherwise - but where the YOUR lawyers (ie retained nad duty bound to provide competent legal advice) - or just lawyers speaking off the cuff?

And here's why I ask - no lawyer will EVER promise an outcome. EVER. They can't. Simply because the decision is either the jury's (yikes!) or the Judge's (even more yikes!). I would further opine that you never seek counsel from those lawyers again - they are understating the risk of his custody.

What has he done that proves, in the eye's of the court, he is an unfit parent? Not his W, HIM.

See where I'm going....

Thanks for your input and yes dead I hold a lot of responsibility but I WILL NOT feel as if I can't go out and enjoy myself without someone bothering me. Nope, I WILL not. And yes I'm bothering them by making him be responsible for his child. I'm bothering him for the next 18 years. We can share custody that would be GREAT my daughter would have her dad, know her siblings, and other family. Whether the judge grants the RO or not at least maybe that will get her attention either stay with him, divorce or whatever but leave me alone if your not willing to be civil. If she goes crazy hurt me or my kids and go to jail. He'll be gone on to someone else it's not worth it. I've accepted my part this ride hasn't been easy but my GOD has still favored me and my family. He's a forgiving God.

April 3, 2014

My god you all need to stop getting hysterical.

From what ive read, she never threatened the kids. Stop beating itup to be more thanit is.

She tried to approach Erika a couple of times in a respectful manner. Erika blew her off and then went straight to the police. Erika, you overreacted. You know you did. At the end of the day, we will allbe judged by our deeds and actions....How do you think yours hold up, Erika? Dont worry about him or her...do you think you're the best person you can be? Think about that. Worry about that. Your actions will define you.

Asfor her approaching you? Yeah, you interjected yourself into her marriage and now the lives of her children. Its called consequences. You knew the piper would come calling. You itched for it. Put on your big girl panties and deal with this in a mature way.
You did her dirty. How about starting with some empathy?

I have to disagree that the account OP has shared of BW approaching her is respectful. Or that filing a police report is over reacting. Or that OP seems hysterical.

OP was wise to begin a paper trail. I've been there (more than once with men I dated, not MM, btw. And also by a strange woman I'd never met who lives in my neighborhood) and knowing what I know now I would encourage anyone who began to be approached in an odd or inappropriate way (at a concert? Not appropriate) to begin a paper trail. I did file police reports and begin paper trails on all of the above. Some had progressed farther than others but it helped in all cases. Although one of the men continues to stalk from afar. At least if something happens to me they'd know who to check out. And he knows that.

Some ways you can ascertain if a person would be safe enough to have a discussion with is by the way they approach you. This would include 1. venue (is it an appropriate place, not just for the two of you but would it make others who may be present uncomfortable?) 2. attitude (language used, voice pitch, body language, facial expression, etc).

April 3, 2014

People who "say things in the heat of the moment" are the same people who "do things in the heat of the moment." Violent things sometimes.

OP, you were wise to take it seriously when you were hunted down at the concert and threatened later. And wise to begin a paper trail with police reports.

These people are saying she didn't follow you. You are just assuming that. Okay out of the hundreds of people she spots me. Did she do an I dream of Jeanie magic trick?

April 3, 2014

Well I guess I live in my own little world where sometimes people say things thru emotions with no true meaning behind it. I've said things and have never become violent or acted out on it. (I couldn't imagine being his BW and finding out about you and his daughter)

Erica, I with you luck but I think you may be in for a shock if your daughters father does go after visitation/joint custody. I'd imagine his chances would be pretty good at being granted one or the other.

April 3, 2014

I have to disagree that the account OP has shared of BW approaching her is respectful. Or that filing a police report is over reacting. Or that OP seems hysterical.

OP was wise to begin a paper trail. I've been there (more than once with men I dated, not MM, btw. And also by a strange woman I'd never met who lives in my neighborhood) and knowing what I know now I would encourage anyone who began to be approached in an odd or inappropriate way (at a concert? Not appropriate) to begin a paper trail. I did file police reports and begin paper trails on all of the above. Some had progressed farther than others but it helped in all cases. Although one of the men continues to stalk from afar. At least if something happens to me they'd know who to check out. And he knows that.

Some ways you can ascertain if a person would be safe enough to have a discussion with is by the way they approach you. This would include 1. venue (is it an appropriate place, not just for the two of you but would it make others who may be present uncomfortable?) 2. attitude (language used, voice pitch, body language, facial expression, etc).

You hit it right on the nail. Only one person with me knew my situation the others didn't know and they were horrified. They didn't even know what was going on. That was inappropriate that could have gotten an innocent person involved and hurt. I never said she shouldn't come to me but it's a way to do things. Also, she was breathing hard, you could see her chest beating it could have been nervousness and we all had been drinking so with that being said it could have gotten bad at the concert. I would have rathered her messaged me on FB first, then it wouldn't have seemed so confrontational.

April 3, 2014

And back to this first police report, because it's pretty relevant. If you filed a police report on her for no reason, as you said she didn't threaten you, i can see how it would enflame the situation. I wouldn't take too kindly to someone calling the police on me when all I've done is approach them in public.

Where I live you can't file a police report for no reason. The police are the judge of whether or not a report is filed.

If a person approaches me in an inappropriate place and in an inappropriate way, they can expect to have it dealt with appropriately. By the police. And I won't be concerned whether or not they feel kindly about it.

April 3, 2014

These people are saying she didn't follow you. You are just assuming that. Okay out of the hundreds of people she spots me. Did she do an I dream of Jeanie magic trick?

I don't understand why it matters whether or not she followed you at the concert. Somehow she found you, this cannot be debated because voila! There she stood at the window of a car in which you were a passenger! She approached you in an inappropriate way in an inappropriate place at an inappropriate time of day.

In the dark. By the car window. You never having seen her before. Accusing or questioning you. A wise person would not expect one who behaves in this manner to be there for a reasonable discussion.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Speakingofwhich

April 3, 2014

Seems to me as I read more that the pair of you are taking out your anger about his actions on each other. Since you feel you have the upper hand legally, leave it at that. Stop getting yourself all riled up. You have a lot on your plate with a new baby. Try to allow the legal actions you have put in place run their course. Block them on FB, set your profile to private ands close all those windows in to your life. The drama can at times feel better than the pain but will do you no good in the long run.

April 3, 2014

Here's one my best friend pointed out to me, a far cry from when males in the old days threatened to 'whoop your ass' and often did!

PENAL CODE

SECTION 422-422.4

422. (a) Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which

will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with

the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or

by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a

threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out,

which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made,

is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to

convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an

immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes

that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own

safety or for his or her immediate family's safety, shall be punished

by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by

imprisonment in the state prison.

Source

Hence, if corroborated, such a 'criminal threat' could have standing with the court, both for a RO and criminal prosecution, presuming the OP's jurisdiction has similar statutes to California.

Hence, following legal advice, if I'm going to 'whoop someone's ass', there's little play in talking about it, as penalties obtain for such criminal threats regardless of the exigent physical proximity or ability to carry out the assault and/or battery.

Erica, I with you luck but I think you may be in for a shock if your daughters father does go after visitation/joint custody. I'd imagine his chances would be pretty good at being granted one or the other.

I agree and I would implore the OP to both become accustomed to this highly likely outcome and begin to see it in a positive way, for her child's benefit. Infants are incredibly sensitive to the emotions of their carers. Positive energy

April 3, 2014

She is under no obligation to engage with either of them without an attorney present. She can set her Facebook to private. She can walk away. She can drive away. She can stop communicating with them, and she should, regardless of whether they try to message her on Facebook or encounter her in a parking lot.

She has done these things, with possibly the exception of setting her FB to private, I don't recall whether or not she posted that she did that.

But, she was also wise to begin a paper trail.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Speakingofwhich

April 3, 2014

If you are implying she carry a gun, that's the wrong approach. You all have to remember that the BS is a mother too, like Erica and I highly doubt she is going to shoot/kill when she has so much to lose.

Let the emotions of all this settle down and LET the lawyers sort out the rest.

I'm not advocating carrying a gun for protection, though I wouldn't discourage someone who wanted to.

The fact that BS is a mother who has much to lose is in no way an assurance that she won't shoot or kill.

Just read or listen to the news any day of the week to know what some mothers are doing these days. And some of them are mothers no one would have expected to do harm to their own children or to others.

April 3, 2014

As in any legal action, document, document, document.

The children are the innocent ones here; I'd break my back to see their innocence preserved. Whatever it takes. Good luck!

^^^^^^

These two points.

April 3, 2014

slan·der

/ˈslændər/ [/url] Show Spelled [slan-der] Show IPA
noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.

2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name .

3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.

de·fame

/dɪˈfeɪm/ Show Spelled [dih-feym] Show IPA verb (used with object), de·famed, de·fam·ing. 1. to attack the good name or reputation of, as by uttering or publishing maliciously or falsely anything injurious; slander or libel; calumniate: The newspaper editorial defamed the politician.

2. Archaic. to disgrace; bring dishonor upon.

3. Archaic. to accuse.

These words do not fit. If she stated that you had an affair with her husband and had a "love child" with him....then it is true.

Whoo. Thank you for responding. I knew something would make you come out the woods. Again I don't what she's says about me and who she's says it too. She's only making herself look foolish you're telling everyone your husband cheated had " love child" and he's now having to take money out of your household to take care of the child. That doesn't make her look good either if she stays. Tell everyone who care just make sure you DONT make no threats. They talked about Jesus, so who cares.

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