The Details

[Red123]

I am a bs and I am 4 months post Dday. My husbands affair was a short term affair lasting about 3.5 months in total with the last month very low contact and no meetings other than IMS at work. Since everything has come out my husband has been doing all of the things suggested to repair a damaged relationship.

 

To be completely honest I like him so much more now than I did before the affair and we were in a really rough place before as well. We are working toward R but I have listened to the advice to not make any major decisions until at least 6 months have passed post Dday. The MOW is not in our lives at all and has not attempted any contact since about a week after he sent her a NC letter.

 

When she did attempt contact he told her to not contact him again via email and she hasn't. I am trying desperately to work through the betrayal but am obsessed with the details of the affair. It appears very juvenile and was really short lived but I focus on very small things that seem to really upset me.

 

My husband answers all of my questions even though he is really embarrassed to do so. I can't stop asking and I really want to because I seem to know everything I need to now and I just keep asking the same things over and over. Has anyone been where I am and do you have any tips for stopping this madness?

 

Thanks and bear with me this was written on my phone.

Edited April 2, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Spark1111]

It's normal and a part of not only re-establishing trust, but re-establishing your personal perception of reality.

 

If we can't trust our own perception, we feel as if we should be committed to an asylum.

 

That's betrayal. Everytime he lied, omitted, kept secret and deceived you, you never had a clue because you loved and trusted him, right?

 

being clueless to our own reality as it is happening right under our noses is a very, very frightening experience.

 

he needs to answer your questions calmly for AS LONG AS it takes.

 

You will eventually feel you have all the pieces to the puzzle and begin to trust your instincts......and in time....him again.

 

It's a good sign for reconciliation. If you weren't interested or he was not forthcoming like many a WS, the divorce rate climbs dramatically. true!

 

Four months is way too early to think the obsession should end.

 

Both you and he have to have patience with the process.

[snappytomcat]

yes,like spark said iys normal,im an even keeled super laid back person,with a compassionate heart,but it took me about 6 months after dday,where I started to feel like myself again,cause I was a crazy person,i thought I wanted to know everything,but the more awful details you think you want to know,the longer it takes to push those awful images out of my head.

so here we are 10 months later,and things are going well between us,i must say I can relate when you say you like your husband more after dday,I thought I was nuts ive always loved him,but for about 3 years I didn't like him very much at all,now looking back,it was cause he was having an affair,i did suspect,but never had any proof.

but after dday,its like he was cleansed or something,hard for me to explain,it was like he could finally breathe again,and the man I used to know,the funny one,the giving,and caring one came back

[veritas lux mea]

If you are talking sex details and there are questions you haven't asked, before asking sit on it for but and ask yourself if it really matters if you know or not every single dirty detail. Because once you hear it, you can't unhear it. If you are just confused over a general timeline and when things happened ask him to write a timeline. Just realize that us WS don't always remember every single detail or even exact dates. Unless of course your husband has one of those super memories.

[Red123]

Thank you for positive encouragement. In regard to the timeline that is where I tend to perseverate. It is interesting that you say that you can't remember everything as a WS. My H says that a lot. He has told me the whole story in his mind but when I ask for timeline specific things he tries to remember but isn't always positive. I was actually thinking maybe this was a cop out but I feel a little relieved that this may be true. I am great with details and remembering conversations etc so I have been expecting these kinds of details. The sexual details aren't as important to me as this affair was not sexually focused. In fact he states their chemistry wasn't really there once they decided to become intimate. He and I have always had a really active physical relationship and good chemistry the emotional details are what are plaguing me and wanting to know what they talked about.

[BetrayedH]

I'm with Spark. This is normal and four months is way too early to expect your obsessive thoughts to end. You are coming to grips with a new reality. You thought you knew what was going before discovering the affair but you were pretty far off. Now your mind is trying to make sure it has all of the facts so it can develop a new and more accurate view of reality. And you're going to want to have looked at it from every darn angle, more than once. It's not even so much that you don't trust him as much as you no longer trust your own judgment. This takes time to repair. There's no getting around it.

 

Your husband's willingness to discuss the affair, even painful details in repetition, is hugely helpful. Kudos to him. So many waywards just don't want to discuss it, as if you will just forget it if you don't 'dwell' on it. Wrong. If you can't be given the full picture, you'll never be able to come to grips with this new reality. If you can see it all, then you can start to accept it.

 

I'm also a fan of betrayed spouses that continue to investigate for a good long while. Trust but verify. The cool thing is that when you investigate and find nothing, you BOTH win.

 

One thing to consider - it may be good to ask yourself if you really "need" an answer to a particular question before you ask it. Ask yourself what you will learn. Perhaps even sit on it for a day. If you still want the question answered, go ahead and ask it. You can also try sharing a journal - you write a question for him and leave it on his nightstand; when he's written his answer, he leaves it on yours. Or perhaps consider limiting yourself when it comes to duration or frequency of affair discussions. My wife and I tried M/W/F only and limited it to an hour and a half. We also had MC on Thursdays. We tried to take weekends off. And we made a point to celebrate afterwards, maybe with your favorite show or with an ice cream.

[BetrayedH]

Thank you for positive encouragement. In regard to the timeline that is where I tend to perseverate. It is interesting that you say that you can't remember everything as a WS. My H says that a lot. He has told me the whole story in his mind but when I ask for timeline specific things he tries to remember but isn't always positive. I was actually thinking maybe this was a cop out but I feel a little relieved that this may be true. I am great with details and remembering conversations etc so I have been expecting these kinds of details. The sexual details aren't as important to me as this affair was not sexually focused. In fact he states their chemistry wasn't really there once they decided to become intimate. He and I have always had a really active physical relationship and good chemistry the emotional details are what are plaguing me and wanting to know what they talked about.

 

It's fairly typical for women to be more concerned about the emotional attachment and for men to be more concerned with the physical.

 

I think this makes your questioning even more challenging because you are probably trying to glean more information than just factual data. You're trying to discern if he loved her, if he loves/loved you, if he loves her more, what does he really think of her, if he still thinks of her, if he misses her, and so on. These are difficult to discern and factual answers/timelines don't always help as much as we'd like. But even just the slightest difference in the way he answers this time as compared to last time might just glean a little more insight into his emotional connection. My point is that repetitive questions are, again, a pretty normal process and I think it's especially true when you're trying to gauge his emotions rather than just facts.

[italianjob]

Hi Red,

your story rings very close for me, because I've been in more or less the same situation many years ago. In my case I was the WH and my affair lasted about 4 months (2m EA 2m PA).

What is happening to you is perfectly normal. When my wife decided she was open to try and reconcile I just accepted to do everything she felt was needed for healing. At first she said she didn't want to know any detail about the A, but as time went on she found that she needed to know, and I answered every question and gave every detail, no matter how embarassing or how many times she asked the same questions. I also gave her free access to every personal information or device, and only went out with my friends if she felt allright about it. If I perceived any insecurity about a night out of any kind, I just cancelled so she could feel safe. I went to IC for months and we did some MC and had a lot of talks analysing our feelings our relationship and what had happened. NC was a problem since my affair was with a coworker whose desk was right in front of mine in the office, but we got lucky and the OW was transferred a couple of months after dday.

Anyway, we gave it all our effort but it took about a couple of years to have a completely functional relationship, and even more to reach a high level of trust again.

But it was worth it, we're still together and happy more than a decade later, and we communicate a lot more now than we ever did.

I hope your efforts will be successful, too!

[jnel921]

I remember asking for details in the beginning and my H being very general in his answers....we kissed, she touched me, I touched her, we took off our clothes we layed in the bed....lol. (I can laugh about this now)

 

I remember screaming...NO I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU DID TO HER!!!!!! With tears in his eyes...he said Baby...I did the worst thing I could ever do. I f***d another woman. I hurt you. The details don't matter because it doesn't change what happened. F****ing is f****ing and I was f*****ing wrong.

 

After that...I didn't need to know and I didn't care. I knew he was sorry and embarrassed. He wanted to be with me. That was my focus and my thought.

 

A year and a half later we are in a very good place.

[DKT3]

Other then if she had feelings for him and the use of protection, I wanted no details. I thought the worse and was able to live with the physical aspect of it all. I know enough about women in general and my wife to know her affair wasn't about sex so I didn't focus on that.

[Red123]

It feels good to know that this is normal but I would give anything to not have the urge to ask. It's making me crazy. Like yesterday I start thinking about whether or not he called her pet names. So of course I ask and he answers with one name. I ask again and he says he may have said babe or dear but couldn't say for sure. I felt so devastated because he calls me babe and has for years. Then I accuse him of lying because he didn't say all three the first time I asked. As I am writing this I feel ridiculous. I am not this intense and I can't believe the things that are bothering me now. I really appreciate all of your comments and stories. It really helps to read that others experience theses crazy thoughts and feelings. Italianjob, did you have a Dday? Or did you end the affair on your own? I'm just curious because your story is very similar to mine and my H AP was also a coworker but they didn't work directly together. He doesn't have to have any contact with her for work but she is in the building which leads to "sightings" of her once in a while that bother me. How did your wife handle your AP in your office before she was transferred?

[gettingstronger]

Here is a copy of "Josephs letter" it was helpful to me and my husband

 

To Whomever,

 

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

 

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have.

 

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important. Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

 

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

 

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.

 

Joseph

Edited April 2, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Red123]

Wow. That is a really powerful letter. I can relate to all of it thank you so much.

[italianjob]

It feels good to know that this is normal but I would give anything to not have the urge to ask. It's making me crazy. Like yesterday I start thinking about whether or not he called her pet names. So of course I ask and he answers with one name. I ask again and he says he may have said babe or dear but couldn't say for sure. I felt so devastated because he calls me babe and has for years. Then I accuse him of lying because he didn't say all three the first time I asked. As I am writing this I feel ridiculous. I am not this intense and I can't believe the things that are bothering me now. I really appreciate all of your comments and stories. It really helps to read that others experience theses crazy thoughts and feelings. Italianjob, did you have a Dday? Or did you end the affair on your own? I'm just curious because your story is very similar to mine and my H AP was also a coworker but they didn't work directly together. He doesn't have to have any contact with her for work but she is in the building which leads to "sightings" of her once in a while that bother me. How did your wife handle your AP in your office before she was transferred?

 

Yes, I can relate, sometimes my wife acted just like you. I tried to answer every question the best I could and understood when sometimes she freaked out. I could manage good empathy with what she was feeling, so I never had angry reactions when she did. I did have a Dday but it's hard to say if it was getting caught or a confession. Actually, she had a gut feeling something was up but didn't have any kind of evidence. She asked if there was another woman and I wasn't able to lie to her face and admitted.

She began to visit me at work unannounced. She never said a word to the OW, but they sometimes exchanged ice cold stares. You could cut the tension with a knife...

[snappytomcat]

It feels good to know that this is normal but I would give anything to not have the urge to ask. It's making me crazy. Like yesterday I start thinking about whether or not he called her pet names. So of course I ask and he answers with one name. I ask again and he says he may have said babe or dear but couldn't say for sure. I felt so devastated because he calls me babe and has for years. Then I accuse him of lying because he didn't say all three the first time I asked. As I am writing this I feel ridiculous. I am not this intense and I can't believe the things that are bothering me now. I really appreciate all of your comments and stories. It really helps to read that others experience theses crazy thoughts and feelings. Italianjob, did you have a Dday? Or did you end the affair on your own? I'm just curious because your story is very similar to mine and my H AP was also a coworker but they didn't work directly together. He doesn't have to have any contact with her for work but she is in the building which leads to "sightings" of her once in a while that bother me. How did your wife handle your AP in your office before she was transferred?

red I know how you feel about the pet name,cause I saw an email where they bothe called each other baby,and a few ddays after dday he called me baby,i went off on him,and told him not to ever,ever call me baby again,and he hasnt

[gettingstronger]

Yes my very unimaginative husband recycled our pet names as well. We have a long list of names and words we never, ever use. It takes time and honesty to get to that point, so don't hold it in. If it bothers you, say it.

[Red123]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad it's not just me who is hurt by the pet names. For me it symbolizes a deeper relationship than I wanted to believe they had. He claims it was not but I will never know as its all about perception. I'm sure if I ever spoke to the MOW she would describe a Romeo and Juliet type of relationship as she didn't believe this was an A since they were in love. After two weeks of just IMs with no meeting up in person they were in love, my teenage daughter doesn't fall that quick. Now my H states he never loved her just thought he did but now can't stand the sight of her because she represents what he has done to us. It's crazy. I never thought I would be here. Bet none of you did either. The club no one wants a membership to, the BS club. It's BS alright:)

[snappytomcat]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad it's not just me who is hurt by the pet names. For me it symbolizes a deeper relationship than I wanted to believe they had. He claims it was not but I will never know as its all about perception. I'm sure if I ever spoke to the MOW she would describe a Romeo and Juliet type of relationship as she didn't believe this was an A since they were in love. After two weeks of just IMs with no meeting up in person they were in love, my teenage daughter doesn't fall that quick. Now my H states he never loved her just thought he did but now can't stand the sight of her because she represents what he has done to us. It's crazy. I never thought I would be here. Bet none of you did either. The club no one wants a membership to, the BS club. It's BS alright:)

yes red,my husband said in the fantasy he was living he though he did love her,she told him everything he wanted to hear,she stroked his ego daily,and thought he was wonderful,well she didn't have to pick up his mess,or listen to his disgusting sounds that come out of him,she only knew,the good,and the same with him he only knew the good parts about her,but the day he thought he was gonna lose me he immediately he did a 180,in an instant,and now he realizes he never loved her,he says his skin crawls when I mention her name,cause he said for him,theres nothing there,nothing at all,i wish you well and sorry you are going through this,time really does he wounds

[Arieswoman]

Red123,

I think it is important to have all the information that you can, however unpalatable it is. You need to be informed so that you can make a choice about whether you want to stay in the relationship or not.

 

If you have decided to stay and work on the relationship then you need to know what you are dealing with.

 

Good Luck.

[Red123]

Snappy - thanks for your reply. It's interesting that so many of these stories seem so similar. I am such a black and white person that I have always thought prior to this that all A s were the same. Your situation leads me to believe that there must be some similarities but that there are different types for sure. I have seen a few posts on LS where the WS has had the same reaction as my H and yours but also so many who continue feelings for the AP even though they are working on R with the BS. I'm relieved to have him feel the way he does now but it's so hard that he even thought he felt that way for another woman. We have been together for 17 years. Thank you Arieswoman I agree that I can't make informed choices without the information. This is a huge decision that can't be made in haste. The hope I am receiving here is so helpful. Thank you Italianjob for sharing more of your story. I asked my H to read this thread. His reaction was positive.

[gettingstronger]

The pin at the top of this forum is also great- What every WS should know-My husband read that and Josephs letter in private and then we talked about them- it really helped him to see not only is he not the only one that has done something so horrible he can not believe it was him, but that my reaction is pretty normal-

 

time and honesty-I can not stress enough how the combo of those two things will help- I am 14 months out and I still have bouts of anger and sadness but they are easier to manage- he is also coming to terms with himself- its hard but necessary to allow them to experience their own pain without rescuing them- I want to wrap him up and say "its OK" but I don't- he needs to get through to the other side on his own-he needs to own the pain he caused-

 

Keep on keeping on and cheers to you!

[Red123]

I totally agree with letting him experience his shame and guilt and pain. But I also agree it is really hard to watch as it is hard for him to see me this way. Thanks for your words of encouragement. I really appreciate it. I sent the pinned post about what every WS should know. He responded well.

[Snowflower]

 

 

My husband answers all of my questions even though he is really embarrassed to do so. I can't stop asking and I really want to because I seem to know everything I need to now and I just keep asking the same things over and over. Has anyone been where I am and do you have any tips for stopping this madness?

 

Thanks and bear with me this was written on my phone.

 

I did this too. I would ask my H the same questions, over and over again. Sometimes I would phrase them differently, or I would ask in different ways, but I would ask him over and over and over the same things.

 

It's very common and dare I say, normal (?) for a BS to do this?

 

As a BS, we have been lied to, deceived and betrayed in a horrible manner by the person we trusted. Now all the sudden we have that same person who broke our trust so badly, wanting to rebuild trust with us again.

 

So, we ask those questions over and over to verify and double-check their story. We ask those questions in an attempt to seek out any inconsistency in the truth that they present to us.

 

No, you're not crazy. And IMHO, I don't think you should stop asking the repetitive questions until you are satisfied.

[Red123]

Snow flower - thanks for the reassurance. I too seem to reword the questions or ask just slightly different ones to catch him. But he calls me in it. I always think that if I can catch him in a lie then maybe I will know for certain what to do. But I haven't caught him and I end up feeling terrible. I am going to follow the advice of betrayedH and have a schedule to discuss the A. I am finding that it is consuming me and all that I seem to want to discuss with my H. I realized that allowing this to consume me is not allowing me to properly R with him. We need time to talk about other things and have fun. So I plan to stick to only the days I decided on and if I have a question on the other days I write it down or let it go. I actually did this Thursday and I didn't write the question down so when it came to Friday where u could ask I had forgotten. My fingers are crossed that this will happen more often then not and I can refocus on other things again. I appreciate the support here so much and the advice it is really giving me ideas I had not thought of

[2sunny]

Does the OW still work with him?