The case for leaving a cheater

[drifter777]

This post is not about me or my situation. My choice to stay was based in fear and fueled by ignorance and denial. I wish I could have found something like this "case for leaving a cheater" for some kind of guidance, but researching infidelity back then was useless.

 

My decision to continue to stay is influenced by two things:

 

1) my sense of "fairness" tells me it is not fair to punish her now for what she did so long ago. Its my fault that I lived in denial for so long, not hers.

 

2) I will not abandon my grandson. We are in the middle of a 3rd party custody battle that we must win. Separating or divorcing now would destroy our chances in court.

 

My anger, shame, and disgust is reserved for myself. My wife did a cruel, thoughtless, horrible thing and I'll never forgive her for that. But she has proven over many years that she is not that person anymore. I still get angry with her refusal to provide some of the details I need but most WW's never come completely clean.

 

This post is for the young BH who is dazed and confused about his options in the wake of d-day. For some men the sexual betrayal will haunt them forever and those men will be much better off divorcing. I can read the posts in this thread and pick out guys for whom the sexual component is the dominant factor in their wives betrayal. And it's easy to pick out those who were hurt much more by the emotional betrayal and can see that reconciliation is possible and forgiveness will come. Two different kinds of people and its very hard for one type to understand the other.

[Snowflower]

Actually, you probably haven't seen it that much if you haven't been around for awhile, but there are some posters on LS who often try to lay a guilt trip on BS's who have decided to divorce after infidelity, or believe they would leave if their spouse was unfaithful. Those posters try to claim the BS is unforgiving, intolerant of others, judgmental, or various other derogatory terms if they do not decide to stay with a cheating spouse, or if a person doesn't want to marry someone who has cheated on a spouse. I hear that on LS all the time.

 

Interesting. Because that has not been my experience here on LS at all. I've been around here enough...

 

I would love to see some of those posts where BSs who stayed turn around and lay a guilt trip on those who divorce immediately.

 

Now, the BSs who do not want to marry someone who has cheated in a previous relationship, now that I have read. I wouldn't marry someone who had cheated previously either.

[veritas lux mea]

This post is not about me or my situation. My choice to stay was based in fear and fueled by ignorance and denial. I wish I could have found something like this "case for leaving a cheater" for some kind of guidance, but researching infidelity back then was useless.

 

My decision to continue to stay is influenced by two things:

 

1) my sense of "fairness" tells me it is not fair to punish her now for what she did so long ago. Its my fault that I lived in denial for so long, not hers.

 

2) I will not abandon my grandson. We are in the middle of a 3rd party custody battle that we must win. Separating or divorcing now would destroy our chances in court.

 

My anger, shame, and disgust is reserved for myself. My wife did a cruel, thoughtless, horrible thing and I'll never forgive her for that. But she has proven over many years that she is not that person anymore. I still get angry with her refusal to provide some of the details I need but most WW's never come completely clean.

 

This post is for the young BH who is dazed and confused about his options in the wake of d-day. For some men the sexual betrayal will haunt them forever and those men will be much better off divorcing. I can read the posts in this thread and pick out guys for whom the sexual component is the dominant factor in their wives betrayal. And it's easy to pick out those who were hurt much more by the emotional betrayal and can see that reconciliation is possible and forgiveness will come. Two different kinds of people and its very hard for one type to understand the other.

 

You do know if you wanted to you could get past it and forgive her and have a happy rest of your life? It might take work but if you could have the chance of happiness wouldn't it be worth it?

 

When you say "can't" you mean "won't". I did it enough myself and then I realized the only thing standing between me and happiness... Was me.

[veritas lux mea]

I too think the case for leaving a cheater is the cheating. I actually think you have to build a case to stay.

 

I cheated and didn't get kicked out but I would have deserved it if I did. No one on here would have encouraged my BH to stay. NO ONE. I had a PA with a friend that lasted several months. We have no kids abd live where D is not that hard legally. I offered my BH everything we mutually owned except for my heirlooms. I continued to miss the high of the affair for a long time after. I catfished him to get some answers. I personaly think that on here many situations are blown drasticaly out of proportion. Not the person's pain but actions. I do think there is a balance between saying an A is no big deal and it being treated like the world has come to an end.

 

But, my husband forgave me and we are both extremely happy. I know no one ever believes that but it is okay. You aren't living in my home.

[veritas lux mea]

Actually, you probably haven't seen it that much if you haven't been around for awhile, but there are some posters on LS who often try to lay a guilt trip on BS's who have decided to divorce after infidelity, or believe they would leave if their spouse was unfaithful. Those posters try to claim the BS is unforgiving, intolerant of others, judgmental, or various other derogatory terms if they do not decide to stay with a cheating spouse, or if a person doesn't want to marry someone who has cheated on a spouse. I hear that on LS all the time.

 

I really haven't seen this either. I was accused of saying I was talking about reconciliation when I was actually talking about forgiveness. But perhaps things like that cause you to get ruffled feathers? I know when I am feeling sensitive I read a lot into things. I know I have read into your posts that you feel cheaters are a lost cause and a special form of scum that would be better wiped off the face of the earth or at least isolated with our own kind. I "know" you don't really feel that way but it is how you come accross. I realize you are here to help BS and could care less about us. That is common enough. After all we are not te victims and don't really deserve anyones help.

 

I'm crazy tho so what do I know?

 

See? POV.

[KathyM]

I really haven't seen this either. I was accused of saying I was talking about reconciliation when I was actually talking about forgiveness. But perhaps things like that cause you to get ruffled feathers? I know when I am feeling sensitive I read a lot into things. I know I have read into your posts that you feel cheaters are a lost cause and a special form of scum that would be better wiped off the face of the earth or at least isolated with our own kind. I "know" you don't really feel that way but it is how you come accross. I realize you are here to help BS and could care less about us. That is common enough. After all we are not te victims and don't really deserve anyones help.

 

I'm crazy tho so what do I know?

 

See? POV.

 

 

Case in point. ^^^ Trying to lay a guilt trip on me for having a personal zero tolerance policy towards cheating. I'm not "reading" anything into your's or other's posts that is not there. I was called unforgiving and unChristian simply for answering a thread about whether or not a poster would marry someone who had cheated in the past. My response was that I would not, because it showed a lack of respecting boundaries, lack of self control, lack of respect. For that I got called unforgiving and unChristian. You are not someone who has called me out on my personal zero tolerance policy towards cheating, until now. There are a few others on here who like to find fault with it, and try to lay a guilt trip on me for it. But whatever. I, personally, have a zero tolerance policy towards cheating. I respect others who have chosen to reconcile if it is not done so out of fear, but I personally would not choose to stay in a relationship where infidelity occurred. That's my perogative, and there is nothing wrong with it, or anything wrong with someone deciding to leave a relationship after they were cheated on. Nothing wrong with someone deciding not to be in a relationship with someone who cheated on a partner. That does not mean that they don't forgive the unfaithful spouse, it only means that they choose not to be in a relationship with him. They don't feel it is in their best interests to continue the relationship. My sister divorced her husband (2 husbands actually) when they cheated on her. She has since forgiven them, but realized she wanted someone who she could trust. Nothing wrong with her decision to leave these men.

[janedoe67]

If your marriage sucks...because someone cheated on you 20 years ago, or yesterday, or just because they're lousy spousal material...it always remains your choice, every single day, to either remain with them, or to move on.

 

This. Period.

[italianjob]

8. I don't think of my choice as easy, neither do I think leaving is easy, but from reading other threads, I know we'll never agree on this. I think making the decission is the hard part.

But the fact is though, that if you leave, you're the one giving up. It's perfectly OK to do so, if you can't or won't deal with the **** sandwich, but don't try to justify your decission by blaming someone else.

 

No. The cheater threw the relationship in the trashcan when he/she cheated. He/she gave that up and gets the blame.

The BS might decide to try and rescue the relationship from the bin and try to make it work again. But it is no obligation, and the decision not to do it is no reason to shift blame.

[veritas lux mea]

Case in point. ^^^ Trying to lay a guilt trip on me for having a personal zero tolerance policy towards cheating. I'm not "reading" anything into your's or other's posts that is not there. I was called unforgiving and unChristian simply for answering a thread about whether or not a poster would marry someone who had cheated in the past. My response was that I would not, because it showed a lack of respecting boundaries, lack of self control, lack of respect. For that I got called unforgiving and unChristian. You are not someone who has called me out on my personal zero tolerance policy towards cheating, until now. There are a few others on here who like to find fault with it, and try to lay a guilt trip on me for it. But whatever. I, personally, have a zero tolerance policy towards cheating. I respect others who have chosen to reconcile if it is not done so out of fear, but I personally would not choose to stay in a relationship where infidelity occurred. That's my perogative, and there is nothing wrong with it, or anything wrong with someone deciding to leave a relationship after they were cheated on. Nothing wrong with someone deciding not to be in a relationship with someone who cheated on a partner. That does not mean that they don't forgive the unfaithful spouse, it only means that they choose not to be in a relationship with him. They don't feel it is in their best interests to continue the relationship. My sister divorced her husband (2 husbands actually) when they cheated on her. She has since forgiven them, but realized she wanted someone who she could trust. Nothing wrong with her decision to leave these men.

See there you go. Exactly what I was getting at. Almost all your posts whether about reconciliation or cheating reflect your idea of once a cheater always a cheater which for someone who did cheat makes my POV of you what I posted. So it is very likely you have developed a certain PoV as well that makes you more sensitive to certain issues. I didn't mean my PoV is right nor was I saying it IS the way you are. I was merely showing an example. I wasn't trying to lay a guilt trip on you. I could really care less about your religeon and have no desire to change your view of cheaters. That was your preception. You are here to help BS. Like I said, I get it.

Edited March 28, 2014 by veritas lux mea

[KathyM]

See there you go. Exactly what I was getting at. Almost all your posts whether about reconciliation or cheating reflect your idea of once a cheater always a cheater which for someone who did cheat makes my POV of you what I posted. So it is very likely you have developed a certain PoV as well that makes you more sensitive to certain issues. I didn't mean my PoV is right nor was I saying it IS the way you are. I was merely showing an example. I wasn't trying to lay a guilt trip on you. I could really care less about your religeon and have no desire to change your view of cheaters. That was your preception. You are here to help BS. Like I said, I get it.

I don't believe "once a cheater, always a cheater." I do believe there is a much greater likelihood that a person will cheat if he has done so in the past and the issues that caused him to cheat have not been resolved. The vast majority of cases of infidelity that I know of personally have resulted in a subsequent infidelity. Unless a person does a lot of work on himself and overcomes whatever issues within him caused him to cheat in the first place, he is at higher risk for cheating again.

[janedoe67]

I don't believe "once a cheater, always a cheater." I do believe there is a much greater likelihood that a person will cheat if he has done so in the past and the issues that caused him to cheat have not been resolved. The vast majority of cases of infidelity that I know of personally have resulted in a subsequent infidelity. Unless a person does a lot of work on himself and overcomes whatever issues within him caused him to cheat in the first place, he is at higher risk for cheating again.

 

Because I believe in what Christ did, I believe in redemption, but I also agree with this. Think about it...once we cross a line the first time, it makes it "easier" to cross it again unless we do really hard work to CHANGE what allowed us to cross it in the first place. When Jesus did not condemn the adulterous woman, he did not pat her on the head and say "it's okay, I don't judge." He said "go and sin no more."

 

Cheating is an acceptable reason to leave someone. There is no reason to have to try to justify it. HOWEVER, if someone chooses reconciliation with a repentant cheater, then I can only assume it is projection that causes another to give them a hard time about it.

[drifter777]

You do know if you wanted to you could get past it and forgive her and have a happy rest of your life? It might take work but if you could have the chance of happiness wouldn't it be worth it?

 

When you say "can't" you mean "won't". I did it enough myself and then I realized the only thing standing between me and happiness... Was me.

I don't live my life by this kind of bumper-sticker philosophy.

 

What I'm saying is that for some men sexual infidelity is unforgivable. Unlike emotional infidelity, it can never be re-established. A couple can learn to communicate better, make more time for each other, etc. etc. to repair their relationship after an affair. But she can never unscrew the OM. That part of the relationship has been permanently destroyed and that's something that is hard to live with whether he reconciles or not.

[janedoe67]

I don't live my life by this kind of bumper-sticker philosophy.

 

What I'm saying is that for some men sexual infidelity is unforgivable. Unlike emotional infidelity, it can never be re-established. A couple can learn to communicate better, make more time for each other, etc. etc. to repair their relationship after an affair. But she can never unscrew the OM. That part of the relationship has been permanently destroyed and that's something that is hard to live with whether he reconciles or not.

 

Then at a certain point it becomes like my overweight friend...either do something about it or stop complaining.

[veritas lux mea]

I don't believe "once a cheater, always a cheater." I do believe there is a much greater likelihood that a person will cheat if he has done so in the past and the issues that caused him to cheat have not been resolved. The vast majority of cases of infidelity that I know of personally have resulted in a subsequent infidelity. Unless a person does a lot of work on himself and overcomes whatever issues within him caused him to cheat in the first place, he is at higher risk for cheating again.

 

 

Encouraging change and saying change can happen but saying you would never risk it pretty much takes any building up and hope out of us cheater sails. Because it is true, I will always be the woman who cheated on her H.

 

I think people who believe that way shouldn't reconcile. And I also think they should realize that any encouragement they give to a WS to change is going to only feed a sense of lost hope. It feels like the scarlet A still exsists.

 

Sorry for the OT. I do really believe cheaters deserve to be divorced. I just have a hard time accepting that should I ever be single again someone would pass over me because for three short months of my life I behaved in a poor way.

Edited March 29, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[veritas lux mea]

I don't live my life by this kind of bumper-sticker philosophy.

 

What I'm saying is that for some men sexual infidelity is unforgivable. Unlike emotional infidelity, it can never be re-established. A couple can learn to communicate better, make more time for each other, etc. etc. to repair their relationship after an affair. But she can never unscrew the OM. That part of the relationship has been permanently destroyed and that's something that is hard to live with whether he reconciles or not.

 

It is only impossible because you believe it is and you hold on to it. There are no people who can't change. I said in another post I see you as a "my good opinion once lost is lost forever sort of guy" but if you wanted to change that you could.

[drifter777]

It is only impossible because you believe it is and you hold on to it. There are no people who can't change. I said in another post I see you as a "my good opinion once lost is lost forever sort of guy" but if you wanted to change that you could.

All people can change? Change what?

 

Your opinion of me means nothing.

[drifter777]

Then at a certain point it becomes like my overweight friend...either do something about it or stop complaining.

Complain about what?

 

You mean I should "just get over it"?

[anne1707]

Complain about what?

 

You mean I should "just get over it"?

 

That's not what Jane said at all. What she (and others) are getting at is that for a healthy life you (general 'you') need to move on. If you are stuck in the past, you are never going to be able to enjoy life now for what it is.

[veritas lux mea]

Complain about what?

 

You mean I should "just get over it"?

 

After how many Years have passed and how by your own confession your wife has not cheated again (how many years has she been faithful and how many was she not?) perhaps it is time to "just get over it". Because at this point not letting it go doesn't seem to be serving you well.

[veritas lux mea]

All people can change? Change what?

 

Your opinion of me means nothing.

 

Change their beliefs, their perspectives, their desires. It isn't easy but it isn't impossible.

 

If you stopped saying you "can't" and started saying "won't" that would be far more honest.

 

And now that I know my opinion of you means nothing I know I can say anything I want without worrying about your feelings! Hurrah for the crazy lady.

[italianjob]

IMO:

Cheating is a hard blow to any relationship.

Some people can get over it, some people just can't.

Both positions should be respected and nobody has the right to think any lesser of the former or the latter.

For those who can (or could) get over it, many elements may affect the decision in favor or against trying reconciliation (the circumstances of the cheating, the amount of time, the remorse and willingness of working on rebuilding of the WS, and more).

I also think that the term reconciliation is often used in situations that are not actually rebuilding of a healty and satisfying relationships.

Staying "for the kids", for financial reasons or for any motivation different than mutual love and desire to be together, are actually just "adjusting to hard times". No less respectable, but not really a "reconciliation".

[sidney2718]

That's not something being done by one spouse to another.

Of course it is. The point is to hurt YOU by hurting the child. Or, if you will, taking out their feelings on the child.

 

The rest of these are perhaps on par with...but not worse than, infidelity in my book. As Appreciate (to who's post you were responding) said, infidelity is on part with (a form of) emotional abuse.

 

Nothing you cited was worse.

 

Well, we'll just have to disagree with that. There are better examples, but they are hard to clean up enough to post here. But I'll give you one: remember the wife who punished her husband by cutting off his manhood?

[sidney2718]

I think one thing that you're not taking into account here is that often, those 'problems' you refer to stem from the same source as the infidelity did...'problems' within the WS. Unresolved emotional issues, poor relationship skills, poor boundaries...

 

In my case, we reconciled, quite happily.

 

But I will note that there were very few, minor changes I had to make on my side to improve our marriage. Most of the heavy work was on her side...she had to learn to improve her stress-coping skills, her boundary issues, and her commmunication issues...all of which were contributing factors to her choice to have an emotional affair.

 

But...all of which she was willing to work on in order to recover our marriage.

 

Which, in a contrary note to the OP's opening statement, led to an improved marriage, rather than a degraded, poorer version of one.

 

Seriously, I'm glad to hear that.

[KathyM]

Encouraging change and saying change can happen but saying you would never risk it pretty much takes any building up and hope out of us cheater sails. Because it is true, I will always be the woman who cheated on her H.

If I, personally, would not want to risk a relationship with someone who had a history of infidelity, why would that matter to you in your situation? To some people, infidelity is a dealbreaker. To some, it is not. My personal dealbreakers do not affect your situation.

I think people who believe that way shouldn't reconcile. And I also think they should realize that any encouragement they give to a WS to change is going to only feed a sense of lost hope. It feels like the scarlet A still exsists.

I believe some people can change, and I would certainly encourage them to change. I don't believe in the phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater." Some people do change. Some people are able to reconcile their relationship, and the WS is truly remorseful and does the necessary work on himself so that he won't cheat again. Unfortunately, a lot of people who cheat do not really do the work necessary to change their engrained patterns/thinking/coping mechanisms/values. Some people are also very hard pressed to change because of very engrained cultural indoctrination, or psychological issues that are highly resistant to change. It's a risk to take back a cheating spouse. He may change, he may not. I know several men who, after the initial infidelity, went on to cheat again, sometimes many years later. To me, that is a risk I would not be willing to take. The cost is too high. I've seen my sister reconcile with her husband and invest many more years of her life with this man, only to have him cheat again on her many years later. That's not for me. It would be an instant dealbreaker for me, but I respect those who choose to work on their marriage and try to get past the infidelity. I also respect those who decide cheating is a dealbreaker for them. As other posters have said, both ways (divorce and reconciliation) take courage. Neither way is more right than the other. It's a personal decision. The only problem with reconciliation is if the WS was not truly remorseful, or did not do the necessary work on himself to change, or if the issues that led to the infidelity were not dealt with.

Sorry for the OT. I do really believe cheaters deserve to be divorced.

Agreed.

I just have a hard time accepting that should I ever be single again someone would pass over me because for three short months of my life I behaved in a poor way.

For some, your history of infidelity will be a dealbreaker. For some, it won't be. Infidelity carries with it huge consequences for the entire family. Lost trust, or people being unable to trust you, is often the price you pay for cheating on someone. I see people in counseling who have a hard time ever trusting a romantic partner again after they had been cheated on, or had a parent who cheated on a spouse. Cheating takes a heavy toll on everyone involved, and the consequences of it are long-lasting. That is why I so strongly encourage people on here who are considering an affair or are involved in an affair, to reconsider that decision, because it is so destructive, and once they go down that road, it is extremely hard to recover the relationship. A lot of the time, it ends the relationship.

Edited March 29, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[sidney2718]

I don't live my life by this kind of bumper-sticker philosophy.

 

What I'm saying is that for some men sexual infidelity is unforgivable. Unlike emotional infidelity, it can never be re-established. A couple can learn to communicate better, make more time for each other, etc. etc. to repair their relationship after an affair. But she can never unscrew the OM. That part of the relationship has been permanently destroyed and that's something that is hard to live with whether he reconciles or not.

 

That's all very true, but I think there is more to it than just that. Unless one marries a virgin (male or female) then one is marrying somebody who has "screwed around". So the problem, I think, also involves the marriage vows being broken. And it involves social pressure.

 

For men, there is also the need not to be seen to be a wuss by "allowing" your wife to cheat. The "allowing" bit goes back to when wives were property and could do nothing without their husband's permission.

 

Further, I think that there is a bit of a biological drive toward cheating. That doesn't make it morally correct, but it is still there. Humans seem never to have been monogamous and polygamy is still in the news, even in the US, not to mention polyamorous marriages and the like.

 

So for me, my agreement with your first line: "I don't live my life by this kind of bumper-sticker philosophy." is total. Bumper sticker solutions are too simple for real life.