RedRobin Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 I realize this was back in the thread- page 4- but I want to underscore this. Chucksagent also pointed out, in response to me, that I might not understand the extent to which men are motivated by sex. I'm willing to concede that, never having been a man. But if you know that we don't understand, then help. Help the women who don't see it coming. RR's comment that you have it out for women is one possibility. And there are other possibilities that come to mind, such as that some men sit by quietly to watch drama, or to see if she "fails the test." I don't understand silence. I dated a guy whose friend of 25 years told me, "you don't want to be with him. he's slept with anyone and everyone he can. he can't be loyal." Bless him! No one else said a word, though some looked at me sideways, which just confused me. I have no qualms about warning men about predatory women. I don't "slut shame" but I do tell them if she has a habit of using men or beating them down. There's a thread on here that I responded to by a newly divorced middle aged man who looks like he's being set up by a sex tease. I told him. Others have too. So speak up, here and elsewhere, if some guy is taking advantage of a woman- or rather, if some person is taking advantage of another person. Exactly. I swear there has been at least once or twice where I was set up with a guy just to see what would happen. Then, when I went back to those people and told them "WTF were you thinking setting me up with that guy"... then they fessed up that they heard this or that about him before. Great. Thanks. I put up with months of stalking (on and off) by a guy named Mr. Sexy Talk over one such incident. Another friend recommended Mr. Ryan (as he's called here) who turned out to be a sociopath. Oh! He's such a nice guy!! NOT! The people who recommended these two were men who I THOUGHT were my friends. I wonder now.
RedRobin Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Oops, yes, thank you, I missed this in your verbose ongoing psychologial evaluation of me. No doubt I am confused about some things. I am not, a player though. I am also very self aware, more so today than I was this time last year, this time 2 years ago, etc. Oh, my FWB was well aware of my OKCupid profile, as I told her ahead of time. Maybe I should have, lied? The ex gf and I were 100% off prior to me creating an OKCupid profile and it was turned off before she "came back". And now, working on myself does not mean a new woman. I took a lot of time off to be alone, and now, I do feel like I want to be in a relationship. How better to continuie to grow in a relationship, than to be, in a relationship? You do make good points, and I like your feedback, and I listen to it. Just not sure why you like to "give it to me" so frequently. Growth? I had a 2nd date with a woman I met on Sunday, last night. We went to the ballet and had an amazing time. We have not made plans to see each other again. She has her kids this weekend and is out of town for work next week. I think we will; I'm in no rush though as I want to process as I go, versus rush into another one. I've disabled my OKC Profile as it just did not make sense and I have "cut off" 2 female "friends" over the past 2 weeks. My only true female friend right now is the 46 year old I refer to on here. Her and I are very open and honest with each other. I'm meeting her and one of her other male friends to go to a concert tonight. Is that, Okay? Why do I give it to you?? I don't see how being vague and wishy-washy gets through to you. It hasn't in the past from other people. I'm glad you are working on these things...
Haydn Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Red, your quite something. Why do I give it to you?? I don't see how being vague and wishy-washy gets through to you. It hasn't in the past from other people. I'm glad you are working on these things... 1
Babolat Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 OP, I'm not sure if it's mentioned in this post, or another one I read: emotionally unavailable. I read up on it last night to see if it's me. I thought about you as I was reading. Here's a decent link on the subect: How to Spot Emotional Unavailability | Psych Central 1
RedRobin Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Red, your quite something. I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks!
Grumpybutfun Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Any woman who was gullible enough to be taken in by a player probably wouldn't have been on my dating list. I liked my women smart and self aware. G 2
Author chucksagent Posted March 28, 2014 Author Posted March 28, 2014 Grumpybutfun - You know what man, in HIND SIGHT, I think that's what it boils down to. Like that Garth Brooks song "Unanswered prayers." The song talks about a good guy who really likes this girl and how it doesn't work out and he's all torn up, but then sees her years later at a high school football game; and his wife is with him, and he sees both of them and realizes he is much better off with his wife. That's how I have viewed it recently. The two girls I REALLY wanted (and who ignored me for players) are both train-wrecks. I won't get into any details but both situations past and present are BAD. Now, I liked them 16 years ago and 10 years ago respectively, so it's been a while...but they haven't gotten their lives together. To the contrary, they are making just as bad, if not worse decisions today. AND they are borderline crazy from the stories I hear (and know to be true). Small town so people know each others business. So like Grumpybutfun said; the women who wanted the players turn out to be the WRONG women. Wrong in EVERY way. Whereas my wife is RIGHT in every way. My wife is sane, comes from a good family, has good heart, down to Earth, makes good decisions, etc. She saw the good in me and fell in love with me. Unlike these other girls who would prefer to chase "difficult" men. 3
Author chucksagent Posted March 28, 2014 Author Posted March 28, 2014 Red Robin - I think step 1 for you and people in general, is to be honest with yourself. You CAN NOT make good decisions if you are not HONEST with yourself. You don't have to SLEEP AROUND to get a taste of what's out there. Let's all be real. If you are 50 and only been with ONE other person, it's human nature to wonder, "wow, what would another be like?" I realize there isn't a big difference between 2 or 3 people and only 1, but in a way, it's ALL the difference. Never leaving your home town vs. leaving ONCE is a HUGE difference. Leaving two or three times makes ALL the difference. I know people who never left my hometown. I left for college to one area and a totally different area for law school. I feel like I have more experiences and wisdom then other people my age who never left. I also don't have this chip on my shoulder like "I gotta leave this town, nothing here for me." OR the ole " I wonder what would have happened if I left." Human nature is a funny thing. You can embrace it, change what you can, get better from it. Or you can stand back and just judge everyone (yourself included) and not try and understand any of it. I agree with you in principle, it shouldn't matter if you only had sex with 1 person or 3 or 10, but I think at the end of the day, in peoples minds, IT DOES. Wrong or right, IT DOES. So I choose to examine the facts that EXIST on planet Earth, not the facts that SHOULD exist. So yes, I think the fact that I had a normal college experience; beautiful girls, parties, drinking, etc. Has made me NOT THIRSY for those things now. I have no desire for them. Again, better or worse for my reasoning, it is what it is. NOW, guys who have never done those things, its NEW to them. NEW things are ALWAYS great, fun and interesting. It's MUCH EASIER to resist temptation (human nature) when its boring and old and not fun and new. And you can argue NEW women each present that temptation, but to me, sex is just sex when you get older; which is WHY emotional affairs in my opinion are JUST AS BAD as physical affairs (and often times leads to physical affairs). Which CIRCLES back through the channels of my usually flawless logic to why FLIRTING is bad and should be avoided. Why plant seeds that can grow to potential problems? Makes no sense. Again, deal with FACTS and SENSE.
verhrzn Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Any woman who was gullible enough to be taken in by a player probably wouldn't have been on my dating list. I liked my women smart and self aware. G But self aware doesn't mean the girl's a mind reader. Her being self aware doesn't automatically mean she can spot a very talented liar. A classic player is a guy who tells a girl he's absolutely serious about her, really wants to date her, is in love with her, acts and behaves like a guy in love who just hasn't pulled the trigger yet. How is a girl supposed to read his mind to discover his intentions are just to use her (convince her he's after something serious so he can bed her, and then leave her)? Is she supposed to follow him to see if he meets with other girls? Go through his phone? Grill him about his intentions? I'm pretty sure those behaviors would get a woman labeled as crazy around here. So a woman has to somehow be both suspicious (this guy says he loves me, but he might be a player!) but also absolutely trusting (no snooping!) Even the smartest people can get conned by someone smooth enough. 1
RedRobin Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Red Robin - I think step 1 for you and people in general, is to be honest with yourself. You CAN NOT make good decisions if you are not HONEST with yourself. You don't have to SLEEP AROUND to get a taste of what's out there. Let's all be real. If you are 50 and only been with ONE other person, it's human nature to wonder, "wow, what would another be like?" I realize there isn't a big difference between 2 or 3 people and only 1, but in a way, it's ALL the difference. Never leaving your home town vs. leaving ONCE is a HUGE difference. Leaving two or three times makes ALL the difference. I know people who never left my hometown. I left for college to one area and a totally different area for law school. I feel like I have more experiences and wisdom then other people my age who never left. I also don't have this chip on my shoulder like "I gotta leave this town, nothing here for me." OR the ole " I wonder what would have happened if I left." Human nature is a funny thing. You can embrace it, change what you can, get better from it. Or you can stand back and just judge everyone (yourself included) and not try and understand any of it. I agree with you in principle, it shouldn't matter if you only had sex with 1 person or 3 or 10, but I think at the end of the day, in peoples minds, IT DOES. Wrong or right, IT DOES. So I choose to examine the facts that EXIST on planet Earth, not the facts that SHOULD exist. So yes, I think the fact that I had a normal college experience; beautiful girls, parties, drinking, etc. Has made me NOT THIRSY for those things now. I have no desire for them. Again, better or worse for my reasoning, it is what it is. NOW, guys who have never done those things, its NEW to them. NEW things are ALWAYS great, fun and interesting. It's MUCH EASIER to resist temptation (human nature) when its boring and old and not fun and new. And you can argue NEW women each present that temptation, but to me, sex is just sex when you get older; which is WHY emotional affairs in my opinion are JUST AS BAD as physical affairs (and often times leads to physical affairs). Which CIRCLES back through the channels of my usually flawless logic to why FLIRTING is bad and should be avoided. Why plant seeds that can grow to potential problems? Makes no sense. Again, deal with FACTS and SENSE. You are barking up the wrong tree. Most of my family... men and women... married relatively young and stayed married. Happily too. They were either virgins when married or close to it. I've never heard any of them wax poetic about opportunities missed from not sleeping around. Not once. My dad DID leave the family home to forge a career path in the Wild Wild West (CA) where he met my mom. My mom was happy to experience living in different areas too. It was a good match. He didn't see the need to try any others. Anyway, the people in my family simply have different priorities, apparently. They obviously don't base their self worth on the number of people they slept with. What you are talking about is a whole different phenomena... and IMHO, has nothing really to do with just sex in the big scheme of things. To the extent that waaaayyy too many people value these superficial and transient things these days... That is the core of the problem. But back to the topic... I still have a problem with men being congratulated for being irresponsible sexually... and enabled by their buddies and bystanders alike to do whatever it takes to make that happen... vs learning how to be better men in general. I could say the same for women too... but I don't see nearly as much of that as I do the reverse. I also resent the undercurrent of a double standard in your posts. If you want to believe that sleeping with more people before being married makes YOU more stable... then you need to extend that logic to women too. It seems you aren't. I don't think it's women's job to restrain men's impulses. I think it's men's job to restrain their own... and if they can't, then he's not someone I would trust. ... and I do have to wonder... if your wife is so wonderful, why do you concern yourself to this extent... the whole player, bad boy, good girl thing? Edited March 28, 2014 by RedRobin
KathyM Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Some men (and women) who use others are very skilled liars who are very convincing. They will tell you whatever they think you want to hear in order to get what they want from you. I know both women and men who have been duped by a user. The general advice I've seen, and which I've passed along to clients and other people I know, in order to spot a user/player, is: 1. If a man or women expresses feelings for the target person that are over-the-top too early on, that is often a sign that they are not genuine. 2. If a man or woman pushes for sex too early on, that is often a sign that their intentions are not to get to know you, or their intentions are not honorable. 3. If a person asks for money or other favours from someone they barely know, that is often a sign that their intentions are not genuine. 4. If a person comes up with a sob story early on to gain your sympathy, or elicit a "rescue response" from you, their intentions may not be good ones towards you. Both men and women are played by users, and I know many (both men and women), both intelligent and ones who are more naive, that were the victim of a user/player. I think it's helpful to be aware of the signs that someone is a user, some of which I've mentioned above. 3
RedRobin Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 But self aware doesn't mean the girl's a mind reader. Her being self aware doesn't automatically mean she can spot a very talented liar. A classic player is a guy who tells a girl he's absolutely serious about her, really wants to date her, is in love with her, acts and behaves like a guy in love who just hasn't pulled the trigger yet. How is a girl supposed to read his mind to discover his intentions are just to use her (convince her he's after something serious so he can bed her, and then leave her)? Is she supposed to follow him to see if he meets with other girls? Go through his phone? Grill him about his intentions? I'm pretty sure those behaviors would get a woman labeled as crazy around here. So a woman has to somehow be both suspicious (this guy says he loves me, but he might be a player!) but also absolutely trusting (no snooping!) Even the smartest people can get conned by someone smooth enough. I've expressed something similar... while I feel TIME is the best way to out these people (men and women)... I certainly would have preferred if these jerks not be allowed to even get a shot at me. In two cases I can think of... it was MEN who introduced me to those guys. Sure, they didn't get far with me... but it was a pain in the *ss getting rid of both of them. Blaming (just) women for player behavior, to me, is just another way some guys want to cop out of their responsibility for the kind of men they keep as friends... and a cop out for taking responsibility for their own choices and behavior...
RonaldS Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I've expressed something similar... while I feel TIME is the best way to out these people (men and women)... I certainly would have preferred if these jerks not be allowed to even get a shot at me. In two cases I can think of... it was MEN who introduced me to those guys. Sure, they didn't get far with me... but it was a pain in the *ss getting rid of both of them. Blaming (just) women for player behavior, to me, is just another way some guys want to cop out of their responsibility for the kind of men they keep as friends... and a cop out for taking responsibility for their own choices and behavior... Who is blaming just women? Both parties have culpability. This isn't a gender issue. It transcends gender. For every guy who has fleeced some naive girl for sex, there's a girl who has fleeced a guy for some other 'reward'. It is what it is. People manipulate to get what they want, and there just so happens to be a large population of people who are pretty friggin dumb and ignorant. If a girl gets played once.....hey, live and learn, babe. If it happens repeatedly....mmmmm, that's on the girl. If goes both ways. I can sniff out a girl who has some hidden agenda instantly, and that gets no play with me. Girls, in order to navigate a world full of exploitative people, need to learn similar lessons. This victimhood stuff is nonsense. Be smart, be aware. 3
oldshirt Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Noone is going to convince me they did so being upfront about their goals and intentions. I did. I was never a true player but the vast majority of women I've been to bed with, I did so by assuring them that I would not be trying to date them exclusively or interfering with their regular lives or be calling them all the time or trying to be with them all the time. I just offered them some occasional fun and pleasure when they felt like it and wasn't trying to be with them all the time or ask anything more of them than an occasional hook up. I never once got anyone into bed by deceiving them by telling them that I was in love with them or wanted to date them exclusively or marry them etc etc. I basically promised them some fun and attention with no-strings, so yes that does work. 2
RedRobin Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I did. I was never a true player but the vast majority of women I've been to bed with, I did so by assuring them that I would not be trying to date them exclusively or interfering with their regular lives or be calling them all the time or trying to be with them all the time. I just offered them some occasional fun and pleasure when they felt like it and wasn't trying to be with them all the time or ask anything more of them than an occasional hook up. I never once got anyone into bed by deceiving them by telling them that I was in love with them or wanted to date them exclusively or marry them etc etc. I basically promised them some fun and attention with no-strings, so yes that does work. That's fine... there is enough vagueness and uncertainty in the get to know you phase for other things... I don't feel the need to take chances with someone who has slept around a lot and doesn't have a habit of bonding through sex... Simple cost/benefit analysis. The cost of being wrong about their intentions (either real or fabricated), their ability to be faithful, or even disciplined enough to have a truly healthy relationship grossly outweighs any possible benefit IMHO. Given everything I've read here on LS over the years... being vague about intentions and lies of omission are what passes as 'honesty' for plenty of men. I've observed it many times both here on LS and attempts by some guys to get me to, um, date them. I'm not stupid.
Author chucksagent Posted March 29, 2014 Author Posted March 29, 2014 RedRobib - My wife is wonderful and me taking interest in this topic has nothing to do with she and I. My buddy is experiencing the "flakey girl syndrome" and not happy about it. Its a new thing where good men cant find a good girl because so many girls only want difficult men aka players. I see a friend going through pain and I try to solve why. Then it got me thinking about the "double standard." Women like slutty men, men don't like slutty women...simple. 1
Woggle Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 RedRobib - My wife is wonderful and me taking interest in this topic has nothing to do with she and I. My buddy is experiencing the "flakey girl syndrome" and not happy about it. Its a new thing where good men cant find a good girl because so many girls only want difficult men aka players. I see a friend going through pain and I try to solve why. Then it got me thinking about the "double standard." Women like slutty men, men don't like slutty women...simple. I see the same thing with my single. They want good women but this is what they find. That is why I truly do appreciate my wife. Women like her are rare priceless gems. 3
RedRobin Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) RedRobib - My wife is wonderful and me taking interest in this topic has nothing to do with she and I. My buddy is experiencing the "flakey girl syndrome" and not happy about it. Its a new thing where good men cant find a good girl because so many girls only want difficult men aka players. I see a friend going through pain and I try to solve why. Then it got me thinking about the "double standard." Women like slutty men, men don't like slutty women...simple. Here we go again. I need to ask you to reread your own thread I guess. Lots of women on here say they don't like 'slutty' men. First of all... lots of women don't know the guy is slutty... for one. Heck, I can't even count on some of my best guy friends to fish them out for me in advance. Its like you guys have some kind of stupid secret society where you and your buddies are out to manipulate as many women as you can... either first hand or through your lack of assistance to women you supposedly care about in your social circle... I mean, did any of you have decent parents?? Where did you learn this shyte exactly?? Noone in MY family talks like this or would go along with this... Second.... these slutty guys lie in order to get sex. As much as they claim not to... I work around all men. It's BS. They are lying by omission or lying straight out... or intentionally being vague. I see it here all the time on LS. At least the women who are promiscuous aren't lying to men to get what they want. The single ones at least. ... and I think you are wrong on the last line. There are plenty of men who like 'slutty' women. Not everyone has double standards like you. It's not for me just because of my personal values and I want someone who shares my values. ...but I will add this, I'd never knowingly date someone with double standards whether he slept with only 1 woman or 100. Being a hypocrite is orders of magnitude worse than being a 'slut' any day. Male or female. Edited: Tell your friend that everyone who wants a truly decent person (sex issues aside) has pain trying to find someone. That's life! If it were easy, everyone would have it. But it's not. Not to mention, you actually have to BE a decent person yourself. Lots of people aren't half as 'decent' as they seem to think they are... especially the so-called 'nice' guys... Edited March 29, 2014 by RedRobin
RedRobin Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 I see the same thing with my single. They want good women but this is what they find. That is why I truly do appreciate my wife. Women like her are rare priceless gems. Right... and you had a FWB before you met your wife. I'm glad you say lots of wonderful things about your wife... but I wouldn't give any guy the time of day if I knew he had a FWB before meeting me... I can't stand hypocrites. Do your single friends sleep around and have FWB?? If so, then tell them to look in the mirror.
WP4046 Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Thanks I will put on my "player shoes" tomorrow lol
Grumpybutfun Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) But self aware doesn't mean the girl's a mind reader. Her being self aware doesn't automatically mean she can spot a very talented liar. A classic player is a guy who tells a girl he's absolutely serious about her, really wants to date her, is in love with her, acts and behaves like a guy in love who just hasn't pulled the trigger yet. How is a girl supposed to read his mind to discover his intentions are just to use her (convince her he's after something serious so he can bed her, and then leave her)? Is she supposed to follow him to see if he meets with other girls? Go through his phone? Grill him about his intentions? I'm pretty sure those behaviors would get a woman labeled as crazy around here. So a woman has to somehow be both suspicious (this guy says he loves me, but he might be a player!) but also absolutely trusting (no snooping!) Even the smartest people can get conned by someone smooth enough. I am not saying women or men can catch it all the time but there are signs and red flags. Usually these guys move really fast...red flag. They tell the girl they have feelings way quick...red flag. They act too interested and too attentive before properly getting to know her...red flag. They tell you I'm not looking for a gf right now but I could change my mind. Your the kind of girl I am looking for. Red flag. They say, I feellike I have known you all my life. I really think you are the sexiest woman on the planet, Scarlett Johansen doesn't compare. Red Flag. You don't meet their friends other than in a bar or party scene...red flag. You don't meet their parents or are invited to their work. Red flag. Your friends or virtual strangers warn you about them being hard to date. Red flag. They show a level of emotional investment that is premature...red flag. They schmooze you instead of logically and genuinely engaging you.Red flag. They want you to be alone with them and keep pushing you for sex quickly even after a girl tells him she wants to go slowly. Red flag. Smart women know how to keep their own identity, their own interests, time with friends and family, their emotions intact and their values guarded until they know everything there is possibly to know about that guy and can verify. Trust is given too early, players are usually strangers. If you don't know their church, their ex gfs, their employer or their friends and family personally, if you don't know who his best friend was growing up or how many of his grandparents are alive you probably don't need to be jumping into bed with them. Be conservative with your feelings, your every thought and idea...women need to not be so quick to give them everything they have inside so they can manipulate them into bed by pretending to like them. Players seek out insecurity and loneliness, and the more vulnerable the better. They know the girls who are hot to get a bf and the ones who will have high expectations and standards. Which one do you think they will go after? Don't act desperate or too keen. Emotionally investing and time investing isn't something a player really will do because smart women know that words are hollow and actions backed up with genuine interest and transparency is something a player wont bother with. If he is late, cancels, doesn't make concrete plans, isn't showing you his world, isn't wanting to be in public with you or has no interest in these things of yours....he may be a player. A genuine bf wants to be with you, wants to be on time, and is excited to meet your friends and family and get to know you. If he says he wants to meet them and then only talks to them for five seconds and then wants to jump into bed with you, he is a player. I do understand that inexperienced young guys are like this too but I am mostly talking to those old enough to want a committed serious relationship. Players are charmers and are so transparent in their motives that most girls will say they knew he was like that but they just thought he would change for them...he wont. He wants you to believe that so he can get laid and move on while saying, I told you I didn't want a gf right now. There are con artists who are very good, that is why you don't blindly trust strangers. If a guy doesn't get that, he is probably inexperienced in dating, has had a past gf who was controlling and didn't trust him or he wants to control you. There are plenty of smart women who can see through very experienced and confident players because of awareness. There are also few players who have the intellectual capacity to adapt to a woman's personality/insights and will still get through but that is very rare. There are things to do and look for, Grumps Edited March 29, 2014 by Grumpybutfun 1
Woggle Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Right... and you had a FWB before you met your wife. I'm glad you say lots of wonderful things about your wife... but I wouldn't give any guy the time of day if I knew he had a FWB before meeting me... I can't stand hypocrites. Do your single friends sleep around and have FWB?? If so, then tell them to look in the mirror. Yes I had a FWB for a brief time after my divorce and I was 100% honest with her. I had just gotten out of a horrible marriage and was in no mood to settle down again. My wife did the casual thing after she caught her ex fiance cheating and I don't judge her one bit for it so how do I have a double standard? My friends who are players are ones who have had their hearts hardened by being played and screwed over one too many times and the ones I still associate with are honest. They find the female versions of themselves and have emotionless sex. 1
Quiet Storm Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 There are a lot of men out there that lie, omit and mislead in order to get sex. They do exploit naive, vulnerable women. But there are also a lot of women that are being told by honest men that the man doesn't want a relationship. They'll have sex with him anyway and then accuse him of being a player. My son is a senior in HS. He is good looking, smart, will be going to a great college and has a bright future. He is not a player, but has lots of admirers. You should see some of the texts, pics, messages these girls send him. I've seen them with my own eyes. He says straight up he doesn't want a girlfriend. They seem to see that as a challenge, and seem to use offering up sex and naked pics as bargaining tools. It's like they think their sex will be so good he'll change his mind and want her for a girlfriend. This isn't just a few girls at school...its epidemic. So girls mislead, too, by pretending to be down for casual sex, and then getting upset when that sex doesn't lead to a relationship. I used to think that men were by far sneakier and more dishonest than women, but being a mom to a teenage boy has really opened my eyes. Many men do use "love" to get sex but girls also use sex to get love. 6
Grumpybutfun Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) There are a lot of men out there that lie, omit and mislead in order to get sex. They do exploit naive, vulnerable women. But there are also a lot of women that are being told by honest men that the man doesn't want a relationship. They'll have sex with him anyway and then accuse him of being a player. My son is a senior in HS. He is good looking, smart, will be going to a great college and has a bright future. He is not a player, but has lots of admirers. You should see some of the texts, pics, messages these girls send him. I've seen them with my own eyes. He says straight up he doesn't want a girlfriend. They seem to see that as a challenge, and seem to use offering up sex and naked pics as bargaining tools. It's like they think their sex will be so good he'll change his mind and want her for a girlfriend. This isn't just a few girls at school...its epidemic. So girls mislead, too, by pretending to be down for casual sex, and then getting upset when that sex doesn't lead to a relationship. I used to think that men were by far sneakier and more dishonest than women, but being a mom to a teenage boy has really opened my eyes. Many men do use "love" to get sex but girls also use sex to get love. This is a very good point and one in which I have had personal experience with, as has my son. Being a player for love and deceiving in this manner doesn't seem to be considered very often. I think it is sad...for the girl because she is setting herself up for failure and hurting herself. I had several instances of this in college, but I wasn't the one who was hurt, the girl was. I was just annoyed, thought girls be crazy, and my son is the same way. I think that is why the term player should be used directly in proportion to those men who knowingly lie and manipulate to get sex, not those who tell women the truth and women try to change their minds. They aren't players. They are just not wanting a gf right now. There are guys who will say it in a way to be leading though, like I don't want a gf right now but you are the one that might be able to change my mind. That is being a player. The stakes for men and women are what counts....when women are played or try to play for love they get hurt. Men, when they are played for money or deceived for money they seem to get hurt. We can wax poetic about equality all we want, but men don't value virginity in themselves, and most women could take it or leave it in men. Most men are trying to get rid of it. Virginity and pureness are less valued in women than ever before in western culture, but it is still valued to some extent. In men, money is valued so if women are players they are out for money or power and men are out for sex. Women who try to use sex to play for love still get hurt because men get something they want which is sex and aren't emotionally involved in the exchange. Reflectively, Grumps Edited March 29, 2014 by Grumpybutfun 2
topaMAXX Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 RedRobib - My wife is wonderful and me taking interest in this topic has nothing to do with she and I. My buddy is experiencing the "flakey girl syndrome" and not happy about it. Its a new thing where good men cant find a good girl because so many girls only want difficult men aka players. I see a friend going through pain and I try to solve why. Then it got me thinking about the "double standard." Women like slutty men, men don't like slutty women...simple. I see the same thing with my single. They want good women but this is what they find. That is why I truly do appreciate my wife. Women like her are rare priceless gems. It's so rare on LS to see such insightful and true posts back to back that this has to be pointed out. As a single guy that's looking for something long term, this is completely true. Back in the day, when I was looking for just casual, I had all sorts of girls lining up to date me. They all wanted relationships. Now that I'm more settled into my career and want something serious, these women are not interested because I'm no longer the bad boy man-whore that I was in my younger years. Though, I still get girls because I've retained some of my bad boy traits, the slightest hint of consideration and attempts at commitment towards a woman turns them off. Of course, there are ways around this. I fully expect to be married by my early to mid 30s (if I so choose). That'll be my little secret for now, though. If you're a resourceful man, you can successfully navigate through the wreckage that is modern day women (as both of you know, being that you are in successful marriages with good women). 1
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