man_in_the_box Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 You two are not the usual. I have heard enough you go girl stuff when it comes to affairs to know that women are just as bad as men. Most cheating women have a cheering section. This baffles me. I don't know anyone, male or female, takes actual pride in their or others cheating behaviour. Is that something that comes with age or something? My girlfriend has one friend who actually is a player/cheater and he receives flak from everyone.
StanMusial Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 it is perceived as dirty for a woman to sleep around because of the sheer fact that a woman is allowing numerous men INSIDE her body and allowing them to deposit their... It is invasive. Men, on the other hand... Well without being too graphic, obviously men and women are different from an anatomy standpoint to the emotional and psychological ones. That's why I think it's comparing apples and oranges most of the time. It's probably not a popular point of view but it is what it is. I just think it's gross if a girl has gotten around, and let someone else have her. 1
Woggle Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 This baffles me. I don't know anyone, male or female, takes actual pride in their or others cheating behaviour. Is that something that comes with age or something? My girlfriend has one friend who actually is a player/cheater and he receives flak from everyone. I used to work with two women who were cheating on their men and they used to share graphic details with each other. The one had a desk right across from mine and I used to hear it all day.
man_in_the_box Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Totally self-absorbed and deranged - they were the only ones? I hardly can believe this scenario in a large, diverse set of people who ckndone that stuff. Heck, I'm in an all male sorority kind of thing and cheating is just not done.
AntiSocal Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 This baffles me. I don't know anyone, male or female, takes actual pride in their or others cheating behaviour. Is that something that comes with age or something? My girlfriend has one friend who actually is a player/cheater and he receives flak from everyone. No. Its the kind of people you surround yourself with. I would know, all my friends/women i meet are cheaters and proud of it. But you would be surprised at how many young women now a days take pleasure in cheating on men. Most are totally easy and they try to keep it there little secret. I've had a lot of girls who seemed nice, were in relationships, even married women proposition me for sex. At first i was really confused. But then as i started to hangout with more females/get propositioned more i learned something. Majority of women are unfaithful and proud of it. Its something that they work hard to hide because they don't want to ruin their reputation. So unless you're one of the guys they're having sex with you would never know about their secret lives. But yea girls are dirty. They're just masters at hiding it. 1
Woggle Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 No. Its the kind of people you surround yourself with. I would know, all my friends/women i meet are cheaters and proud of it. But you would be surprised at how many young women now a days take pleasure in cheating on men. Most are totally easy and they try to keep it there little secret. I've had a lot of girls who seemed nice, were in relationships, even married women proposition me for sex. At first i was really confused. But then as i started to hangout with more females/get propositioned more i learned something. Majority of women are unfaithful and proud of it. Its something that they work hard to hide because they don't want to ruin their reputation. So unless you're one of the guys they're having sex with you would never know about their secret lives. But yea girls are dirty. They're just masters at hiding it. And if you call them on it you are slut shaming but I am supposed to shun my single friends who have casual sex with women? Give me a break. 1
Grumpybutfun Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Totally self-absorbed and deranged - they were the only ones? I hardly can believe this scenario in a large, diverse set of people who ckndone that stuff. Heck, I'm in an all male sorority kind of thing and cheating is just not done. I had a guy in the military tell me, I don't tell you stuff because you have high expectations for people. Yeah, I do, it's called integrity. G 2
man_in_the_box Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 But you just said those are the people you surround yourself with - which I think is very accurate. Neither mine.nor your situation represents men/women on a larger scale or even in general. @antisocial since quotes appeared in between
Author chucksagent Posted March 25, 2014 Author Posted March 25, 2014 Maybe it's just in my tiny corner of the world, but I too have found people leading secret lives. Nobody super close to me, thank god, but people I thought I knew and didn't. I've had 2 somewhat close friends tell me they never were up front with me because I have high standards and they were worried I would think less of them. And they were right, I do think less of them. I didn't like cheating in high school, what makes them think I'd approve when they are adults? I think a lot of factors come into play...friends, family, social status, education, etc. But also too, sometimes it doesn't matter. You can be highly educated, BUT, been a dork your whole life. You finally are making a ton of money working on wall street, hot young girls are hitting on you at work happy hours, your heavy set ugly wife you married cause you've known her your whole life and bratty kids are waiting at home, a person with low self esteem, low character, and a lacking sexual history, MIGHT make the wrong choice and give in to temptation. To the contrary, an educated person who has had fun in college and sewed enough wild oats, may be SMART enough to know to avoid the work happy hours and appreciate his family he has at home. Lots of avenues all intersecting at different sections. 1
Grumpybutfun Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Maybe it's just in my tiny corner of the world, but I too have found people leading secret lives. Nobody super close to me, thank god, but people I thought I knew and didn't. I've had 2 somewhat close friends tell me they never were up front with me because I have high standards and they were worried I would think less of them. And they were right, I do think less of them. I didn't like cheating in high school, what makes them think I'd approve when they are adults? I think a lot of factors come into play...friends, family, social status, education, etc. But also too, sometimes it doesn't matter. You can be highly educated, BUT, been a dork your whole life. You finally are making a ton of money working on wall street, hot young girls are hitting on you at work happy hours, your heavy set ugly wife you married cause you've known her your whole life and bratty kids are waiting at home, a person with low self esteem, low character, and a lacking sexual history, MIGHT make the wrong choice and give in to temptation. To the contrary, an educated person who has had fun in college and sewed enough wild oats, may be SMART enough to know to avoid the work happy hours and appreciate his family he has at home. Lots of avenues all intersecting at different sections. I understand what RR is saying, men do throw atta boys at bad behavior though. Not us, but some do. Why is that? G 2
Babolat Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 I understand what RR is saying, men do throw atta boys at bad behavior though. Not us, but some do. Why is that? G My male friend who had 3 gfs at one point, I always asked him "How do you emotionally do it, and how do you physically do it?". He never had an answer really now that I think about it, He would answer with strategy kinds of answers, as in how he did not get caught, versus a real answer. He acknowledges he has issues, is scared to be alone, etc. That's probably why I still consider him a good friend; at least he is introspective, a little.
RedRobin Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Not judging, you, trying to understand your message. You call yourself a friend, but it appears to be conditional. If they cheat, and do not "take your counsel" you exit the friendhsip? If a friend becomes addicted to a drug, starts to abuse as substance, and they do not "take your counsel" you exit the friendship? I am pretty sure that is not what you mean to say, but, if it is, wow. isn't that when friends need friends, the most? And you chose to walk away? That sounds like judgment to me, not friendship. Again, I'm reading your words and drawing assumptions I don't bnow you in person. What about a family a member, a loved one. If they fall of the wagon, you exit? If you fall in love with a man, and later find out one of his friends was a player, you would exit the relationship? There is a limit to my support of someone, yes. If they refuse to help themselves, then I can't help them. Doesn't mean I wouldn't agree to resume the friendship if they got back on the straight and narrow, I would... just that I feel that sticking around someone who routinely makes poor choices that hurt them and other people is a form of enabling. If they showed signs of getting away from that lifestyle, I'd support them. But no... as long as they choose to stay walking that other path... I can't help them. Edited March 26, 2014 by RedRobin
Taramere Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Well wow, lucky me. I found a bunch of genius' who apparently have thought of this before. Well where were you all in the countless posts on here when girls say "Hey, not fair, how come women are looked down upon when they are promiscuous but men are revered and cheered." The women who complain about that probably aren't very confident. As a general rule, anybody who spends a lot of time griping and complaining on a message board is probably very lacking in confidence - and sadly it's a vicious circle. The less confidence a person has, the poorer treatment they'll attract from others. A very confident, promiscuous woman is far less likely to be poorly treated. That's the general thing about confidence. I'd say the main difference between promiscuous men and promiscuous women is that the former tend to have a lot of social confidence (since men still tend to be the sexual pursuers, they need that confidence) whereas the latter don't necessarily need to do anything more than summon up the gumption to attend social events and then say yes - without being too discriminating about who they'll say yes to. Anecdotally, most confident and fairly promiscuous women I know are choosy about who they slept with. On account of their confidence, they'd take more initiative in chatting up men they found attractive. So unlike their wallflower "slut" sister who would say yes to pretty much anybody, they'd be selective. They'd say no to the majority of men, but they'd pursue the ones they fancy (and usually end up having sex with them). Of course there would be people who judged them for it in a way that they wouldn't judge men. That's the double standard in action, but you're not likely to hear confident women waste much time complaining about that double standard - not least because they're unlikely to care very much about the opinions of the people who are most likely to apply it. 2
Goldenbrwn Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 My observation is that other men put 'players' on a pedestal... not the women. Women go after men they are attracted to. No big surprise. My observation is that these same men are usually good liars, have little or no remorse about whom they hurt, and don't really have a lot of substance underneath the surface flash. If they weren't taught this in childhood, most women quickly learn how to dig a little deeper and those same men lose their appeal. It's the main reason lots of those player types target young women of a certain age or inexperienced in dating. Because those women are naïve. It's not really because those women prefer to be lied to or taken advantage of. It's also the reason why I refuse to date men who have slept around a lot. That's right. You heard it. I avoid sl*tty men. Noone is going to convince me they did so being upfront about their goals and intentions. I used to be upset when friends or family I knew cheated or mistreated their women. In my eyes my brother I felt was way too mean to his wife, father seemed to be cheating, friend cheating. When I gained more experience with women and learned women were actually turned off by being treated too well I started to look at it in a different light and no longer hold it against them. I don't follow PUA stuff but negs exist for a reason. Also my personal experience showed me the women I treated the worst were the ones who I couldn't get rid of. I have even had a woman (my roommate), who argued against me saying that I have to consciously treat women worse than I would, admit to me in different wording that one guy she really liked treated her too well and was too excited to see her which turned her off. With all that in mind treating women badly is not necessarily a sign of bad character and often is just adapting to their tastes.
Author chucksagent Posted March 26, 2014 Author Posted March 26, 2014 I understand what RR is saying, men do throw atta boys at bad behavior though. Not us, but some do. Why is that? G I told you guys, it's the same reason lots of guys smack a teamate on the butt when they hit a home run or score a touchdown...why they watch Louis CK stand ups over and over...why they spend countless hours lifting weights or running...why they overpay for "fancy and designer" clothes...men RESPECT greatness. What makes greatness? Being could at something or obtaining something that OTHER men want and desire! ALL MEN want to have sex with hot girls. ALL MEN. Some want to do it the right way, with emotion and love. Others, not so much. But at the end of the day, it's the PLAYERS often time who are achieving what ALL MEN WANT. And let us not forget, "the ends justifies the means." And I know not everyone agrees with that phrase. But EVERYONE agrees with it the more desperate they get (within limits obviously). Like you'd NEVER EAT SQUIRREL...but I guarantee you if you haven't eaten in days, you'd consider it. Well let's say you keep striking out with women, those SAME women keep sleeping with players...eventually maybe you say "man, how do you do it, you must be awesome, cause I can't do it!"
Woggle Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 I told you guys, it's the same reason lots of guys smack a teamate on the butt when they hit a home run or score a touchdown...why they watch Louis CK stand ups over and over...why they spend countless hours lifting weights or running...why they overpay for "fancy and designer" clothes...men RESPECT greatness. What makes greatness? Being could at something or obtaining something that OTHER men want and desire! ALL MEN want to have sex with hot girls. ALL MEN. Some want to do it the right way, with emotion and love. Others, not so much. But at the end of the day, it's the PLAYERS often time who are achieving what ALL MEN WANT. And let us not forget, "the ends justifies the means." And I know not everyone agrees with that phrase. But EVERYONE agrees with it the more desperate they get (within limits obviously). Like you'd NEVER EAT SQUIRREL...but I guarantee you if you haven't eaten in days, you'd consider it. Well let's say you keep striking out with women, those SAME women keep sleeping with players...eventually maybe you say "man, how do you do it, you must be awesome, cause I can't do it!" This right here. It's why drug dealers and criminals are idolized in poor neighborhoods. They see their parents struggling and breaking their backs in order to be barely be able to have the lights on and maybe eat some meat every now and then with the ramen noodles and then they see the criminals driving fancy cars and getting nice women. Who do you think will appeal more to somebody who wants great things in life? Men are results oriented people. When we want something we figure the steps we need to take to obtain it. If being a player and a bad boy it is what it takes for men not to be lonely virgins that is what they will gravitate to. If all of a sudden being a respectful gentleman became what it took to have a woman in your life that is what men will do. We do what needs to be done to produce the outcome we want. That is why I say if women truly wanted good men they can change things almost overnight by rewarding them. 1
RedRobin Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Maybe it's just in my tiny corner of the world, but I too have found people leading secret lives. Nobody super close to me, thank god, but people I thought I knew and didn't. I've had 2 somewhat close friends tell me they never were up front with me because I have high standards and they were worried I would think less of them. And they were right, I do think less of them. I didn't like cheating in high school, what makes them think I'd approve when they are adults? I think a lot of factors come into play...friends, family, social status, education, etc. But also too, sometimes it doesn't matter. You can be highly educated, BUT, been a dork your whole life. You finally are making a ton of money working on wall street, hot young girls are hitting on you at work happy hours, your heavy set ugly wife you married cause you've known her your whole life and bratty kids are waiting at home, a person with low self esteem, low character, and a lacking sexual history, MIGHT make the wrong choice and give in to temptation. To the contrary, an educated person who has had fun in college and sewed enough wild oats, may be SMART enough to know to avoid the work happy hours and appreciate his family he has at home. Lots of avenues all intersecting at different sections. If the source of your confidence is based on how many people you screw then it makes no difference how many oats you sow... You are still a poor risk. If I follow your logic though...then you should argue that women who are promiscuous before marriage are less likely to cheat having gotten it out of their system... Right? For some reason though... It's guys with your viewpoint who seem to think that logic only applies to men. 1
RedRobin Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 This right here. It's why drug dealers and criminals are idolized in poor neighborhoods. They see their parents struggling and breaking their backs in order to be barely be able to have the lights on and maybe eat some meat every now and then with the ramen noodles and then they see the criminals driving fancy cars and getting nice women. Who do you think will appeal more to somebody who wants great things in life? Men are results oriented people. When we want something we figure the steps we need to take to obtain it. If being a player and a bad boy it is what it takes for men not to be lonely virgins that is what they will gravitate to. If all of a sudden being a respectful gentleman became what it took to have a woman in your life that is what men will do. We do what needs to be done to produce the outcome we want. That is why I say if women truly wanted good men they can change things almost overnight by rewarding them. But that would make those women sluts... See how that works? Because the reward you are talking about here is instant sex. If more guys want instant sex they could stop with the double standards. Love that you can't stop justifying lying, using, and double standards. No... Not every man resorts to lying in order to get sex and have a woman in their life. Just the weak lazy ones.
Woggle Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 But that would make those women sluts... See how that works? Because the reward you are talking about here is instant sex. If more guys want instant sex they could stop with the double standards. Love that you can't stop justifying lying, using, and double standards. No... Not every man resorts to lying in order to get sex and have a woman in their life. Just the weak lazy ones. It's not that guys want instant sex but we know that virgins are not seen as desirable. Most men want a happy and normal relationship with a woman but we don't want to be the settled for man who is with a woman who frequently catches GIGS. They see the way faithful and loyal men treated in relationships these days and they want no part of that. I don't blame them. 1
Babolat Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 The women who complain about that probably aren't very confident. As a general rule, anybody who spends a lot of time griping and complaining on a message board is probably very lacking in confidence - and sadly it's a vicious circle. The less confidence a person has, the poorer treatment they'll attract from others. A very confident, promiscuous woman is far less likely to be poorly treated. That's the general thing about confidence. I'd say the main difference between promiscuous men and promiscuous women is that the former tend to have a lot of social confidence (since men still tend to be the sexual pursuers, they need that confidence) whereas the latter don't necessarily need to do anything more than summon up the gumption to attend social events and then say yes - without being too discriminating about who they'll say yes to. Anecdotally, most confident and fairly promiscuous women I know are choosy about who they slept with. On account of their confidence, they'd take more initiative in chatting up men they found attractive. So unlike their wallflower "slut" sister who would say yes to pretty much anybody, they'd be selective. They'd say no to the majority of men, but they'd pursue the ones they fancy (and usually end up having sex with them). Of course there would be people who judged them for it in a way that they wouldn't judge men. That's the double standard in action, but you're not likely to hear confident women waste much time complaining about that double standard - not least because they're unlikely to care very much about the opinions of the people who are most likely to apply it. Interesting, and well said. My last 5 sexual partners, I did not initate sex with them. They did at some point first in our dating. And, all of them told me they had a plan, and knew before "it happened" it was going to happpen that night. I'm sure at some point I would have initiated it, though I am typiucally one to "wait" and let the woman "tell me" when she is "ready".
Babolat Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) But that would make those women sluts... See how that works? Because the reward you are talking about here is instant sex. If more guys want instant sex they could stop with the double standards. Love that you can't stop justifying lying, using, and double standards. No... Not every man resorts to lying in order to get sex and have a woman in their life. Just the weak lazy ones. You use the word lying often when referencing men who just want sex, who lie in order to get sex, players you call them. Can you give us an example of this kind of lying? And I assume the lie is "to get sex", right? I can't think of what I would lie about to a woman to "get sex", so I am curious. Edited March 26, 2014 by Babolat 1
RedRobin Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 You use the word lying often when referencing men who just want sex, who lie in order to get sex, players you call them. Can you give us an example of this kind of lying? And I assume the lie is "to get sex", right? I can't think of what I would lie about to a woman to "get sex", so I am curious. I believe your signature line says it all... You have enough player friends. I don't need to spell it out for you... Some lie intentionally... they lie by misstating their intentions, overblow their feelings, hide large aspects of their lives... you know, they lie, mislead, or hide any information that a woman might need to make an informed decision about getting involved with them. Others are just chronically unself-aware. That's where I'd put you. it is hard to get too frustrated with you... Your lack of self-awareness in advance of getting involved with this or that woman is kind of sad... You 'play' women simply out of your cluelessness and inability to be clear about intentions before you reel them in. You claim to be working on yourself, but working on yourself seems to always involve some new woman... doesn't it?? Your OkC profile stating you are looking for a long term relationship while you had a FWB and the on again, off again thing with your ex... and an ever expanding, rotating cue of female 'friends' you are on the fence about pursuing romantically. Any woman with half a brain would see you as thoroughly confused or a player. Enough people say this about you... perhaps it is time to take it to heart. Does that answer your question??
BlueIris Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Give the women in your life a heads up when some douchebag guy tries to pull the wool over her eyes. That would go a LONG ways toward changing things.... As it is, it's as if guys with your mentality have it out for women... and get sick vicarious pleasure in seeing women hurt and lied to. It's disgusting. I realize this was back in the thread- page 4- but I want to underscore this. Chucksagent also pointed out, in response to me, that I might not understand the extent to which men are motivated by sex. I'm willing to concede that, never having been a man. But if you know that we don't understand, then help. Help the women who don't see it coming. RR's comment that you have it out for women is one possibility. And there are other possibilities that come to mind, such as that some men sit by quietly to watch drama, or to see if she "fails the test." I don't understand silence. I dated a guy whose friend of 25 years told me, "you don't want to be with him. he's slept with anyone and everyone he can. he can't be loyal." Bless him! No one else said a word, though some looked at me sideways, which just confused me. I have no qualms about warning men about predatory women. I don't "slut shame" but I do tell them if she has a habit of using men or beating them down. There's a thread on here that I responded to by a newly divorced middle aged man who looks like he's being set up by a sex tease. I told him. Others have too. So speak up, here and elsewhere, if some guy is taking advantage of a woman- or rather, if some person is taking advantage of another person. Edited March 26, 2014 by BlueIris spelling 1
Babolat Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 I believe your signature line says it all... You have enough player friends. I don't need to spell it out for you... Some lie intentionally... they lie by misstating their intentions, overblow their feelings, hide large aspects of their lives... you know, they lie, mislead, or hide any information that a woman might need to make an informed decision about getting involved with them. Others are just chronically unself-aware. That's where I'd put you. it is hard to get too frustrated with you... Your lack of self-awareness in advance of getting involved with this or that woman is kind of sad... You 'play' women simply out of your cluelessness and inability to be clear about intentions before you reel them in. You claim to be working on yourself, but working on yourself seems to always involve some new woman... doesn't it?? Your OkC profile stating you are looking for a long term relationship while you had a FWB and the on again, off again thing with your ex... and an ever expanding, rotating cue of female 'friends' you are on the fence about pursuing romantically. Any woman with half a brain would see you as thoroughly confused or a player. Enough people say this about you... perhaps it is time to take it to heart. Does that answer your question?? All you really needed to do, was answer the question. I was genuinely curious. Your ongoing evaluatioan and assessment of me, voluntarily, is almost, amusing at this stage. Though appreciated.
Babolat Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Does that answer your question?? Oops, yes, thank you, I missed this in your verbose ongoing psychologial evaluation of me. No doubt I am confused about some things. I am not, a player though. I am also very self aware, more so today than I was this time last year, this time 2 years ago, etc. Oh, my FWB was well aware of my OKCupid profile, as I told her ahead of time. Maybe I should have, lied? The ex gf and I were 100% off prior to me creating an OKCupid profile and it was turned off before she "came back". And now, working on myself does not mean a new woman. I took a lot of time off to be alone, and now, I do feel like I want to be in a relationship. How better to continuie to grow in a relationship, than to be, in a relationship? You do make good points, and I like your feedback, and I listen to it. Just not sure why you like to "give it to me" so frequently. Growth? I had a 2nd date with a woman I met on Sunday, last night. We went to the ballet and had an amazing time. We have not made plans to see each other again. She has her kids this weekend and is out of town for work next week. I think we will; I'm in no rush though as I want to process as I go, versus rush into another one. I've disabled my OKC Profile as it just did not make sense and I have "cut off" 2 female "friends" over the past 2 weeks. My only true female friend right now is the 46 year old I refer to on here. Her and I are very open and honest with each other. I'm meeting her and one of her other male friends to go to a concert tonight. Is that, Okay?
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