I've cracked the "player" mystery!!!

[chucksagent]

I always say that if women treated male players the way men treat female players they could stop it in their tracks. Men want to emulate this lifestyle because it works. I am not saying it's the right thing to do but it works in attracting women. Most men don't want to be the doormat who gets chucked aside and it seems that is how nice guys get treated.

 

Smart men won't commit to a female player because they know damn well she won't make good gf or wife material. I wish women were as smart with male players. Players are just good at advertising and so many women fall for it like people fell for pet rocks back in the day. Increasingly more men are falling for female players which is just a sad sight to see.

 

WOGGLE!!! YES!!! Very well said.

 

I will give you a prime example. In high school, I met a cheerleader from a rival school (I played football for my school). We were Sr.'s so I was probably 17 or 18...We went on a double date, I brought a buddy and she brought a friend. She was GORGEOUS. Absolutely GORGEOUS. However, during that first date, she flirted and teased EVERY MAN we ran across. I was like "F this, I can see her type a mile away." We ran into a 3rd guy friend of ours toward the end of the date. He thought this girl was FAAAANTASTIC. I told her I didn't wanna hang out anymore, and so he asks me "Do you mind if I ask her out?" I explained to him why I didn't want to go out with her anymore and advised against it, but assured him it would be his mistake and to go for it.

 

He went for it. They dated for two and during that two years, she wound up cheating on him with 2 guys, one of which was HIS BEST FRIEND and a close friend of mine (we were all in same circle). He didn't find out about it until toward the end of the courtship when she threw it in his face during a fight.

 

So NOW DOUBT, men make the same mistakes, but once again, we're talking about the MAJORITY of the situations. What happens MOST of the time? What is SEEN most of the time? Women willingly date players. My friend was the rare male example. SURE, many guys who have just tried to have sex with her, but my buddy was a good guy played a dangerous game and got burned.

 

WOGGLE - The bottom line...like you said...like fortyninethousand322 said, like my buddy I chatted with earlier said, and like I will say AGAIN; If women TRULY hated players and wanted to rid the world of them and GIVE THEM the same reputation female players have...THEY'D STOP HAVING SEX WITH THEM AND CHASING THEM. Simple, common sense, no education needed, supply and demand 101. Can't be disputed.

[Woggle]

It is a sign of a declining society when being nice to somebody you have a thing for is considered weak or a turn off. Something is very wrong these days.

[Babolat]

Red Robin is on to something here. I see it often with my 46 year old best female friend, who has never married. She ends up in relationships with men, who cheat on her, control her, tell her what she can and can't do, and then she later learns of a history of cheating with them with prior woman/relationships.

 

And, I watch her now, and I think it's subconscious. There are 2 married men in our social circle we are very flirty, touchy feely when their wives are not around. I've seen one kiss a woman in a bar. She, in my opinion, is more friendly to them even though she knows "their story". I don't think it's intentioanl. She also texts with 5-10 different men, some she has categorized as players/cheaters that she would never date, she knows they want to F her; yet she gives them attention.

 

My ex gf, all of her previous LTRs were with controlling men who cheated on her. I was good to her, very good. I sometimes wonder if she saw this as "freedom" and the Okay to go party and play with her friends. That she needed to be with a controlling man, one who was a cheater, a player.

 

I dunno; interesting topic.

[chucksagent]

SJC2008 - He took her to a nice restaurant, texted, spoke on the phone, laughed, complimented...I have a lot of friends...some of them are jerks, he is a REAL good guy. Successful, good looking, funny, down to Earth, in GREAT shape...he's been really struggling lately to have RELATIONSHIPS with girls. He has had them ATTRACTED to him, because like I said, he's in great shape...but after a date or two they don't call back or don't want to date. I see it a lot with other friends too.

[SJC2008]

SJC2008 - You are right about the control freak women holding their mens n*ts in their purses: I know 3 couples who fit that PERFECTLY. And the common denominator in all 3 is: All 3 men have never been with/had sex with any other woman prior to the controller. And all 3 women are NOT anything special that would make you want to hand over your nuts. It's very strange but all 3 are very similar dynamics. Just from what I've seen (not saying it's right universally).

 

Right but women are not going to talk about how they're controlling and have to run the show. Controlling people won't admit to it. So that only leaves the aformentioned topics as the hot ones. Look at this thread I started a while back: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/450365-women-leading-men It died just over an hour after opening it. The thread we're in now it still going...

[Woggle]

WOGGLE!!! YES!!! Very well said.

 

I will give you a prime example. In high school, I met a cheerleader from a rival school (I played football for my school). We were Sr.'s so I was probably 17 or 18...We went on a double date, I brought a buddy and she brought a friend. She was GORGEOUS. Absolutely GORGEOUS. However, during that first date, she flirted and teased EVERY MAN we ran across. I was like "F this, I can see her type a mile away." We ran into a 3rd guy friend of ours toward the end of the date. He thought this girl was FAAAANTASTIC. I told her I didn't wanna hang out anymore, and so he asks me "Do you mind if I ask her out?" I explained to him why I didn't want to go out with her anymore and advised against it, but assured him it would be his mistake and to go for it.

 

He went for it. They dated for two and during that two years, she wound up cheating on him with 2 guys, one of which was HIS BEST FRIEND and a close friend of mine (we were all in same circle). He didn't find out about it until toward the end of the courtship when she threw it in his face during a fight.

 

So NOW DOUBT, men make the same mistakes, but once again, we're talking about the MAJORITY of the situations. What happens MOST of the time? What is SEEN most of the time? Women willingly date players. My friend was the rare male example. SURE, many guys who have just tried to have sex with her, but my buddy was a good guy played a dangerous game and got burned.

 

WOGGLE - The bottom line...like you said...like fortyninethousand322 said, like my buddy I chatted with earlier said, and like I will say AGAIN; If women TRULY hated players and wanted to rid the world of them and GIVE THEM the same reputation female players have...THEY'D STOP HAVING SEX WITH THEM AND CHASING THEM. Simple, common sense, no education needed, supply and demand 101. Can't be disputed.

 

I agree but if men listen to the natural voice in our head and stay away from women like this we are slut shaming and being too close minded. I would rather be closed minded than be flat headed from being walked all over but many men are not strong enough to stand by their principles like that.

[SJC2008]

It is a sign of a declining society when being nice to somebody you have a thing for is considered weak or a turn off. Something is very wrong these days.

 

We're products of our environment. The only way to meet a healthy partner is to either get lucky and meet someone who grew up in a household with minimal dysfunctin OR to meet someone who wants to make a conscious effort to have a healthy relationship. Both seem equally hard to find.

[chucksagent]

Babolat - It is a VERY interesting topic. I don't endorse this belief in ANY WAY...not at ALL...but even speaking to older men...there are old men today who say and believe things like "You can't give your woman too much, you give an inch and she will take a mile." And one I know in particular will say the same stuff you said..."If you trust them and let them go out to bars, they will flirt with guys because it makes them feel good about themselves and then that leads to only bad things."

 

So many people believe in "harmless flirting" and I say why? Even if it only leads to something worse 10% of the time, why are you going to risk a stable/healthy/good relationship for something that could totally ruin that and backfire in your face?

 

I guess it's kinda like those people who drink 5 nights a weekend get multiple DUI's. And then say to people who drink once every other month and have zero DUI's "God man, you are SOOOOOOOOOOO lucky. See, even you drive drunk, how come I have 2 and you have zero?!? Not fair"

 

When really, mathematically speaking, THEY are luckier than you are. They just have an unrealistic/incorrect perspective effecting their decision making.

[Woggle]

We're products of our environment. The only way to meet a healthy partner is to either get lucky and meet someone who grew up in a household with minimal dysfunctin OR to meet someone who wants to make a conscious effort to have a healthy relationship. Both seem equally hard to find.

 

My life growing up was filled with dysfunction and strife but I still know what is healthy and what is not. Why do I get it when so many others don't? Sure my first marriage was from hell but I got out and married a good woman instead of chasing after women like my ex. What do I have that others don't that allowed me to break that cycle?

[chucksagent]

SJC2008 - Wow...so well said. My wife is the BEST and I always say to her "God I wish I had your family growing up." Lol. Her family is sooooooooo normal it's ridiculous. My family is much closer to normal than most, but they have quite a few hang ups indeed.

 

But you nailed it. Early childhood development is so key to things like insecurity...and insecurity leads to a LOT of these problems.

[chucksagent]

My life growing up was filled with dysfunction and strife but I still know what is healthy and what is not. Why do I get it when so many others don't? Sure my first marriage was from hell but I got out and married a good woman instead of chasing after women like my ex. What do I have that others don't that allowed me to break that cycle?

 

Yeah my family wasn't HORRIBLE like some, but it was pretty screwed up when I think about it. And I overcame it on the grandscale...but I have some baggage, I will admit it. Like a chip on my shoulder to always show I can overcome because nothing was ever good enough. I was the only one in my family to go to college, go to law school, make good money, not borrow money off my grandparents or parents, not live at home until I am 20 (or 25 or 30 or 35 as is the case with my aunts/uncles and cousins)...YET I STILL get **** like "Why don't you work for a bigger firm? Why don't you run for office?

 

Lol. Family dynamics. But my cousin the drug addict, they keep enabling him. Lol, its like WHAT!?!?

[Woggle]

My wife had a great family growing and I see now the world of difference in women who grew with a good father and a healthy model of what a relationship should vs one that didn't.

[SJC2008]

My life growing up was filled with dysfunction and strife but I still know what is healthy and what is not. Why do I get it when so many others don't? Sure my first marriage was from hell but I got out and married a good woman instead of chasing after women like my ex. What do I have that others don't that allowed me to break that cycle?

 

I come from a very dysfunctional family and know what is healty too so we're the same in that regard. Luckily for some of us a light bulb goes off in our head and we become self aware. In your case you made a conscious decision to break the cycle after your first marriage. Some people never learn though! I have a relative who is married to his fourth wife and he married the same type of women four times (emotionally unavialable and controlling).

 

I've never been married but since I've dated more over the last few years I've luckily had my light bulb moment a little over a year ago. I learned that I'm drawn to EU controlling women (like my mother) and that I'm a chaser. Now I know these are the types of women I need to avoid. I know the type of women I need to meet to have a healthy relationship and I hope I meet her. There are good women out there and there are women out there who have liked me in the past and I ran the other way. I need to stop running away from women who like me.

[chucksagent]

SJC2008 - I think the reason this gets more discussion is because it's something we ALL have experience and ALL can relate to and if effects us ALL.

 

Whereas a very select small # of men allow themselves to be controlled in such a strong number (granted, I will give you, that number is rapidly increasing)...And I have no idea why they do it. The ONLY time I've done that in my life, was because the girl I was with was sooooooo darn sexy, and I was young and h*rny and didn't car...Lol. I was getting a woman with an AMAZING body, world class, WAY above my pay grade (what I would be expected to be with) and I just rode it out until I couldn't stand her anymore. Part of it was, she was a GREAT girl when we first met, when we first started dating, but then after we moved in together, she got REAL controlling. I told her good day about 6-8 months after moving in and realizing it wouldn't work.

 

But all these guys who are older and the girls aren't that awesome, I can't explain it. Maybe it's psychological, maybe they LIKE being controlled. Who knows...I will tell you who would love to chat about that, is family and close friends of a "good guy" who has been sucked in by a controlling woman. They can always tell LOTS of stories.

[chucksagent]

SJC2008 - Wow. I am in shock. I may owe you a therapy bill. My mother may be emotionally unavailable now that I really connect some dots...which is ANOTHER reason I stayed with that controlling girl so long. BECAUSE after we broke up, I was like "I know EXACTLY the kind of woman I need now." And my wife fits it perfectly. A good hearted, good family normal woman who respects me and my needs. My mother has been married and divorced 3 times...controlling...always needs her way...the RARE times she is opposed she just runs into her bedroom and cries and locks the door...uses guilt on me and me brother to feel bad for her. Wow man, crap, you may have just nailed it on my me...my mother may have been emotionally unavailable.

 

See, I've only ever REALLY had 3 girlfriends...all throughout college and law school I just hooked up, "dated casually, etc. I didn't want to get locked in a relationship not knowing where I'd be going to lawschool and eventually working (it served me quite well). My first 2 relationships were mostly about sex and the girls tried to control me. First one didn't get the chance and the second I explained above. 3rd time was the charm and met my dream girl in every way possible.

[chucksagent]

Sign # 1 of an emotionally unavailable woman (just read this article I googled):

 

You’re repulsed by available guys

 

“Not interested” doesn’t even begin to describe how you feel about that amazing guy who is so into you. When he asks you out on actual dates (and doesn’t just relegate you to last-minute dive bar drinks or late-night booty calls), treats you well, and genuinely wants to get to know you, you start making excuses about why you're not into him.

 

LOL we were just talking about that. How GOOD guys will take a girl out and she wants no second date.

[Andy_K]

For what it's worth, I think the OPs view on the reasons behind the double standard is far more original than most opinions that come up whenever the subject is raised

[BlueIris]

Players get dumped quite a bit, even if they’re getting dates to begin with.

 

Like Red Robin said, and very well, I might add, it would be nice if men shunned male players.

 

I know a very nice man, good solid family man, and he was talking about his player ex-brother-in-law, how awful the guy is to women, really quite abusive. And then my friend said, “But he’s a great guy. Smart, athletic, successful… blah blah.” How can he even think that? My friend has daughters, and he’s teaching his daughters that someone can be a good guy while treating women badly. Like treating women badly is an exception to character? Maybe the “all men are dogs” theory? And will my friend’s daughters be wrong to tolerate poor treatment? Not entirely. Dad, who is not a player, has been conditioning them for it all their lives.

 

I certainly don’t consider my EX-girlfriends who cheated or used or manipulated men to be “great gals.” Robin’s right, LOTS of men kind of honor players as Alphas or something.

 

OP, men also have responsibility for how society works. Your theory places the onus on women to create change. This reinforces the idea that men aren’t responsible or capable.

[Babolat]

We're products of our environment. The only way to meet a healthy partner is to either get lucky and meet someone who grew up in a household with minimal dysfunctin OR to meet someone who wants to make a conscious effort to have a healthy relationship. Both seem equally hard to find.

Very well said. I seem to be meeting the latter at my age, 47, only to find out that her "reading the right self help books" and "going to counseling" to better herself, felt good, on paper, but has not been, applied. My ex gf was great about talking about change, talking about the "right things" to do when in a relationship... Implementation was weak/poor.

[Babolat]

My wife had a great family growing and I see now the world of difference in women who grew with a good father and a healthy model of what a relationship should vs one that didn't.

Wow, another well said. My ex wifes dad cheated on her mother, disappeared for years. My ex gfs dad disappeared at age 5, her mom remarried, to another durg addict/alcoholic, he disappeared, and she was then kind of raised by a neighborhood family, who, guess what, the dad was a raging alcoholic.

 

My 46 year old female best friend, never married, dad passed away at 4, mom never dated.

[Babolat]

Yeah my family wasn't HORRIBLE like some, but it was pretty screwed up when I think about it. And I overcame it on the grandscale...but I have some baggage, I will admit it. Like a chip on my shoulder to always show I can overcome because nothing was ever good enough. I was the only one in my family to go to college, go to law school, make good money, not borrow money off my grandparents or parents, not live at home until I am 20 (or 25 or 30 or 35 as is the case with my aunts/uncles and cousins)...YET I STILL get **** like "Why don't you work for a bigger firm? Why don't you run for office?

 

Lol. Family dynamics. But my cousin the drug addict, they keep enabling him. Lol, its like WHAT!?!?

 

Geez, were we seperated at birth!? You are telling my story.

[RedRobin]

So REDROBIN, It's not like men ALWAYS romanticize these players, BUT, in that age range, when players are the only ones getting laid, and good,smart, driven men are sitting behind a desk trying to become a doctor, a lawyer, a business man, learn a craft, hold a job, getting a little tummy, and the players still look great, it's during that time where guys are like "oh man, that player gets all the girls and I can't get a call back for a date!!!"

 

 

Yes, and some of those 'good girls' are doing the same thing... plugging away trying to be self-sufficient... avoiding the clubs, getting involved in volunteer work and activities that enrich them as human beings.

 

 

I've told relationship minded men here over and over... go to volunteer events... take a dance class... join an activity club... THAT IS WHERE THE GOOD GIRLS/GUYS ARE.

 

 

People who pick up others in bars aren't usually looking for anything serious. Girls who pick up guys in bars are seriously deluded if they think any of those guys are going to settle down. And vice versa.

 

 

If you equate simply 'getting laid' with 'success', that is half your problem. It's the old tortoise and hare example... The speediest don't always win the race, my friend. While those dudes and dudettes are plugging strangers, other people are quietly working on their people and job skills in one way or another. It can only help them in all aspects of their life down the road.

 

 

Besides, I do all those things (work hard, volunteer, join activity clubs)... and I haven't grown a tummy or a big *ss. I'm the same weight I was in high school. I also set my priorities pretty firmly... I don't own a TV, I eat healthy food, and I exercise at least a half hour every day. So it CAN be done.

 

 

Edited: I'm also only the second person in my family to get a college education. Although, we don't really have a lot of issues with addiction in my family. I have one cousin who just can't get his life together. That's it.

Edited March 24, 2014 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

SJC2008 - Wow. I am in shock. I may owe you a therapy bill. My mother may be emotionally unavailable now that I really connect some dots...which is ANOTHER reason I stayed with that controlling girl so long. BECAUSE after we broke up, I was like "I know EXACTLY the kind of woman I need now." And my wife fits it perfectly. A good hearted, good family normal woman who respects me and my needs. My mother has been married and divorced 3 times...controlling...always needs her way...the RARE times she is opposed she just runs into her bedroom and cries and locks the door...uses guilt on me and me brother to feel bad for her. Wow man, crap, you may have just nailed it on my me...my mother may have been emotionally unavailable.

 

See, I've only ever REALLY had 3 girlfriends...all throughout college and law school I just hooked up, "dated casually, etc. I didn't want to get locked in a relationship not knowing where I'd be going to lawschool and eventually working (it served me quite well). My first 2 relationships were mostly about sex and the girls tried to control me. First one didn't get the chance and the second I explained above. 3rd time was the charm and met my dream girl in every way possible.

 

 

See, you don't really sound like a nice guy to me.

 

 

Do you respect your wife and her needs too? If not, the sh*t will hit the fan eventually. It's not controlling to state your needs and hope your partner will want to try and meet them... within reason of course.

 

 

the statement 'locked in a relationship' is the tell for me here. I don't know any sincere relationship minded men who feel 'locked' in a relationship. Just the opposite. They enjoy the emotional closeness of one... They don't walk around all paranoid that some woman is going to lock them down and control them. That's a sign of dysfunction, for sure.

 

 

I've learned to walk away from men who describe relationships like this. No matter how much they try to hide it in the beginning. I'm not here to prove to them that relationships are a good thing or that women aren't out to 'control' them.

[quidproquo89]

I'm still trying to figure out what it is you've "cracked"?!

o zone layer probably with a big head like that

[Babolat]

Like Red Robin said, and very well, I might add, it would be nice if men shunned male players. .

I do this regualry, and spoke to it in one of my posts about breaking up with my ex gf. I don't have a lot of close male fridns, by choice. Most of the single men I know spend too much time in bars, they are players, or both. And I tell them what I think of their "playing". One survived, and we are great friends now; he knows he is a mess though at this point I do not judge him for it.

 

One of my married close male friends is quickly working his way off of my list because I see how he behaves when his wife is not around; he flirts, he touches, and I've seen him kiss a woman at a bar. Woman have even given him their phone #. it's, disgusting.

 

So yeah, I shunn, and it's probably why I have more close female friends now then men.