Author chucksagent Posted April 9, 2014 Author Posted April 9, 2014 Quiet Storm - This is a GREAT analysis. It makes a ton of sense too. My wife is EASILY the most emotionally healthy woman I have ever dated/been with, and her father is one in a million amazing guy. He would take her to baseball games, supported her hobbies, talk about everything, etc. Her whole family is great but her dad is the best. And it makes me think...many on here are saying confidence and good looks are enough to get women. I don't agree. I have 3 VERY good looking male friends (Yes I am comfortable enough in my sexuality to admit that...lol). They are like the 3 bears as far as drama is concerned, the first ZERO drama, good dude...the second, medium drama, medium dude...the third, LOTS of drama and SELFISH dude. The 3rd guy is not a BAD person persay, first to be there to help me many times, but he's the guy who after a vacation, his girlfriend is carrying all the luggage and he is sipping on a soda waltzing free acting oblivious AND THE GIRLFRIEND IS OK! He always finds women like that, ALWAYS. We call those girlfriends "members of the church of ______(insert his name)" Because WHAT KIND OF WOMAN would let someone neglect them like that?!?! So again, keeping in mind that order, I would say ALL 3 are equal in looks, equal in height (middle guy maybe a tad taller than other 2 guys), equal in careers...YET...the good guy, no drama HAS TROUBLE dating/finding women. Middle guy is better than no drama guy, does ok, but still hasn't found a long term good girl. The LOTS of drama, selfish guy, has women lining up at his god d*mn door. No joke. So I don't wanna hear "its all about confident and good looks." Because we have ALL SEEN ugly players do very well. So there is more to it than simple good looks. I think Quiet Storm nailed it...I think these emotionally damaged women like being treated poorly. Like sado-masochism...they are gluttons for punishment. It's like the victim/loser mentality..."ya can't help who ya fall for!" Loser talk. You just SEE someone, you haven't FALLEN FOR THEM. Thinking someone is HOT or having LUST is not falling in love. So if you spot someone, and everyone you know is like "Hey, don't go out with that person, he's a bad dude and will hurt you." And you reply "can't help who ya fall for" it's not romantic and you aren't "cute" you are a total moron who deserves what they get. It's not the responsibility of all men or that of a players burden to make you "not be an idiot." That is on you. And finally, some people cited biology and science. Historically and biologically, women have been attracted to winners...to strong men that feel safe around and who can protect and support them and their offsprings. MOST players I know do not fit that description. Sure, there are muscle head players who rule the gym but work at a crappy job and can barely pay the bills. And sure, there are scrawny players, who have ok jobs and can dress nice. But as I said, MOST women when they get older, SHOW their biology and want the GOOD MAN. This is mostly...MOSTLY...referring to girls aged 15-35. It seems after 35 the science and biology kicks in.
ThaWholigan Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I have a feeling some women who really hate players are just mad that they couldn't tame one in the past. Sometimes they f*cked one when they rather wished they didn't. The allure can be strong. They are angry at themselves. 1
Babolat Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I have a feeling some women who really hate players are just mad that they couldn't tame one in the past. Seems NYWoman, was able to tame one...
RedRobin Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Sometimes they f*cked one when they rather wished they didn't. The allure can be strong. They are angry at themselves. ... almost f*cked one... only had a phone conversation with the second. I don't want my reputation affected by association with them... even if it went nowhere. Those who introduced me to them have similarly distanced themselves from them. Rational and wise people don't knowingly keep liars and users in their circle.
RedRobin Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Not necessarily. Loyalty as a character trait and monogamy in and of itself doesn't always mean the man in question is a typical doormat pseudo-cuckold with no sexual prowess . There are shades of grey involved, and a man can have a cultured character complete with sexual charisma - without being polyamorous by nature. Not that it is bad, but not everybody desires it, contrary to whatever anyone believes. That's fair. I'd argue that - most women want to experience very good sex. I recall meeting a former male escort (trying to sell me his program, which I promptly bought) and he was explaining to me the belief that men provide women the platform with which to explore the depths of their sexuality, and it requires a certain attitude towards sex to do so. However, he noted that you can be a monogamous man and still have that attitude and f*ck your wife into heavenly bliss. However, I don't think they are necessarily untrainable, simply that they must experience a shift in attitude towards their sexuality, whether that is their physique, sexual charisma, relating to the psyche of the woman he's with, penile health etc..... Ditto........ ... and some of these other posts? One really has to roll their eyes. Yes... narcissists and players tend to congregate together...they occupy similar positions on the spectrum.... ... and one more thing... just a heads up to those who want to avoid them.... players don't need a reason to lie and manipulate. Read up on sociopaths/psychopaths. Most of them just enjoy seeing what they can get away with. They do it for fun. Note the glib attitude from them on this thread. They can't help it. To hear them talk... you'd think they invented sex or something. Hilarious.... That's another way to spot them. The casual disrespect and lack of empathy for people they hurt.... paired with the non-stop self aggrandizing. They can't hide that for long. Edited April 9, 2014 by RedRobin 2
Quiet Storm Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I hate this notion that "non players" are weak little lap dogs. There are plenty of strong men that don't take any BS from anyone, who aren't players. And who also know how to take care of business in the bedroom. I've been with my husband for 22 years. He's kind, honest, sweet, strong, a great dad, a natural leader, etc. If you met him, you would never say he was a lap dog. He's dominant & masculine. He's just not a dishonest guy who manipulates & plays games. He satisfies me 100%. Whether it's sweet & tender, or hard & rough... I couldn't ask for a better lover. We role play, watch/make porn, get creative, etc. Seriously, I have a pack of puppy pads by our bed so I don't have to constantly change our sheets. So for you women that think you have to settle for a player to get good sex... please think again. Don't sell yourself short. If I had to tolerate lies, disrespect, and sharing my man to get good sex, I'd use a toy or my shower massager. Being liberated and loving sex does not make the man worthy! There are good, strong, honest men out there that will rock your world. 6
Woggle Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 I hate this notion that "non players" are weak little lap dogs. There are plenty of strong men that don't take any BS from anyone, who aren't players. And who also know how to take care of business in the bedroom. I've been with my husband for 22 years. He's kind, honest, sweet, strong, a great dad, a natural leader, etc. If you met him, you would never say he was a lap dog. He's dominant & masculine. He's just not a dishonest guy who manipulates & plays games. He satisfies me 100%. Whether it's sweet & tender, or hard & rough... I couldn't ask for a better lover. We role play, watch/make porn, get creative, etc. Seriously, I have a pack of puppy pads by our bed so I don't have to constantly change our sheets. So for you women that think you have to settle for a player to get good sex... please think again. Don't sell yourself short. If I had to tolerate lies, disrespect, and sharing my man to get good sex, I'd use a toy or my shower massager. Being liberated and loving sex does not make the man worthy! There are good, strong, honest men out there that will rock your world. I fully agree but good luck trying to tell this to a large portion of modern women. I am a man but the fact that my wife is an honest and loyal woman who would never play me makes sex even hotter with her. I had an FWB who physically is a 10 but sex with her got very boring very quick because her personality is so awful.
ThaWholigan Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) I fully agree but good luck trying to tell this to a large portion of modern women. I am a man but the fact that my wife is an honest and loyal woman who would never play me makes sex even hotter with her. I had an FWB who physically is a 10 but sex with her got very boring very quick because her personality is so awful. To be honest, among my generation, using deception as a player is seen as "passé". So I get that player is synonymous with lying, cheating, womanizing scumbag among people in this thread. As Joystick and I have pointed out though, we have known men who do not really fit this archetype of a player but tend to see the same amount of action, hence they are lumped in with the deceivers. The only word I've seen in this thread that could be close to accurate in describing them is "manipulative". Manipulating in it's literal sense, means to handle something with dexterity (or someone). That is amoral - meaning it can be used in an unscrupulous manner or as simply as being able to persuade someone of something (no lies necessary). Having said that, I am glad Quiet Storm posted what she just did, that is what I was getting at in my previous post. Players don't actually have the monopoly on great sex - they have the monopoly on how to get it easier than other men from significant subsets of women. Through social engineering and charisma (and/or looks). And as for women, nowadays we live in a time where women are more sexually free and inclined to explore it - not without judgement mind. So they are more than happy to roll in the hay with a guy they are sexually attracted to, much in the same way men are encouraged to do so with a woman that makes our bacon sizzle. Those of us born between mid 80s to mid 90s are a pretty sexual generation I have to say. Edited April 9, 2014 by ThaWholigan 1
KathyM Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Interesting This might explain why my ex gf, even though I broke up with her last March, still continued to "show up" for sex all Spring and Summer (and yes, I allowed it, because hell, I enjoyed it), and would go home with "I still need to work on myself, I don't want to date", nor did I want to date, the sex was amazing though. Was it healthy for me? Who really knows. And, as she put it, she always liked sex, but with me, she loved sex. Might also explain my "FWB" I speak of on here, who will still text me to this day asking if I want to meet her out, come over, can she come over, etc. And she was the one who ended our FWB relationship stating she could not do it anymore. She said something similar to my ex gf, that she always liked sex, but that I was a "champion" of sex. She screamed, and I mean screamed during sex and would always say "I don't know why I am so loud with you, I never have been in the past". Both, liked what NYWoman says, "want to experience a tiger in bed. A passionate stud who can take us to orgasmic heaven. One who can F our brains out.....that last more than half an hour" The woman I dated before my ex gf, literally every time she came to my house, within minutes we were were fu^&ing. We did it everywhere. I even once met a girl from OLD 2+ years ago, and she literally attacked me the first time we met; invited, really took, me back to her place immediately. We had sex all weekend. If she did not live so far away it would have continued. The woman I have been on a few dates with, she volunteered that the main reason she ended her 15 year marriage is because of no sex, no intimacy. He did not even like to see her naked after a while. She said "He was my best friend but my needs were not being met". She did say the first man she dated post marriage probably played on that, and gave her lots of attention and sex. None of this makes me a player. In all of these cases I was honest, they were honest, we knew what we were doing. See, this is the difference between a player and a man who is simply desired by women. Honesty. I think some of the posters on here are confused about what a player actually is. It's not a man who is honest with women. Honest about his intentions. A player lies to women, manipulates them, cheats on them, misleads them. Those are not good qualities. That is not what women want. Let's not confuse the two. And thank you for pointing out the rediculous notion that some posters here have that men who are not players are not good at sex. That's just a rediculous assertion by certain posters who have no credibility. If they are being honest, not "selling a relationship" with lies, lies of ommission, no, I think it means they just want to have great sex. Are all players great in bed? I have no idea, I doubt it. Are all non players poodles in bed, nope, I don't think I am a poodle in bed.Very good point. It's the dishonesty that makes a man a player. And I will say emphatically, all players ARE NOT good at sex. Some may be. Some are not. Just as some non-players are good at sex and some are not. Your story certainly demonstrates this. My sister's ex husband was a player in every sense of the word. A serial cheater. Lied to my sister. Cheated on her. Lied to the women he cheated with about his marital status. Manipulated all of them. He was a lousy lover. A selfish lover. Couldn't last very long. A very boring lover as well. Her new husband, OTOH, is a wonderful, caring, passionate, generous lover who is miles ahead of the scumbag she divorced. Just sayin . . . 2
KathyM Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 I have a feeling some women who really hate players are just mad that they couldn't tame one in the past. No women like to be played. No men like to be played by women. No one likes to be cheated on. It doesn't take being played to know that's not the kind of person you want to be with. I, personally, have never dated or had a relationship with a player. If I had, he would be history. I don't put up with being lied to, manipulated, or cheated on. I would never consider dating a known player. 1
2.50 a gallon Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 A Player is a womanizer, similar to a dirty old man, replaced the slang for juggler. Only during the last decade or so, has it been given a secondary meaning of a manipulator, or a lothario, in some but not all circles. In the 19th Century, he was called a sport which replaced a dandy of Yankee Doodle fame. And lest we forget, we Americans owe a big debt for our independence, to a great player of his time Ben Franklin. Without him the French navy would not have came up from the south to blockade the British at Yorktown.
Author chucksagent Posted April 10, 2014 Author Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) A man who is HONEST with a woman of his intentions...who says "I don't want anything serious, I just want to fool around." That is not a player...he is not manipulating the woman. He is being up front and honest. A person who does not want to be in a relationship isn't simply a "player." A player is someone who lies, cheats, steals, manipulates as a means to an end...that end being guilt free, commitment free, effort free sex. (After the initial effort). He then uses lies and trickery to continue to string the woman along whilst pursuing other women in the backdrop. The more he has on his Rolodex, the less nights he will go to bed alone. This is what birthed the saying "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" It is used to describe someone (often a player) who will not marry because sex without any commitment is so easy to obtain. Then the girls all cry "why can't I get a good man to commit to me?!?" All the while she is passing out her body to the biggest bull****ter she can find. "Oh you love me? Why didn't you call me the last 4 nights? Oh you had to go to Mars, I love that you're an astronaut AND a doctor. I am so lucky." And then of course, "Hey, it's not women's fault these men are such good liars." Roll my eyes...lol Edited April 10, 2014 by chucksagent
RedRobin Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) A man or woman who is HONEST with a woman or man of his/her intentions...who says "I don't want anything serious, I just want to fool around." That is not a player...he/she is not manipulating the woman/man. He/she is being up front and honest. A person who does not want to be in a relationship isn't simply a "player." A player is someone who lies, cheats, steals, manipulates as a means to an end...that end being guilt free, commitment free, effort free sex (or something else of value). (After the initial effort). He/she then uses lies and trickery to continue to string the woman/man along whilst pursuing other women/men in the backdrop. The more he/she has on his/her Rolodex, the less nights he/she will go to bed alone. I agree with this. Note I made it gender neutral. I do believe there are female players too... One of the issues these days, is that the definitions of what is or is not a relationship... or casual... or a 'friend'... is wide open and subject to interpretation, and, not surprisingly... manipulation. We are all tasked to be as self-aware as possible and honestly share our intentions in a reasonable fashion as soon as we know them... and act on them or walk away. Those who don't leave themselves open to being played... by shear virtue of their confusion... or being accused of being a player.... which they may find will bite them in the *ss later on. Edited April 10, 2014 by RedRobin 1
joystickd Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 A man who is HONEST with a woman of his intentions...who says "I don't want anything serious, I just want to fool around." That is not a player...he is not manipulating the woman. He is being up front and honest. A person who does not want to be in a relationship isn't simply a "player." A player is someone who lies, cheats, steals, manipulates as a means to an end...that end being guilt free, commitment free, effort free sex. (After the initial effort). He then uses lies and trickery to continue to string the woman along whilst pursuing other women in the backdrop. The more he has on his Rolodex, the less nights he will go to bed alone. This is what birthed the saying "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" It is used to describe someone (often a player) who will not marry because sex without any commitment is so easy to obtain. Then the girls all cry "why can't I get a good man to commit to me?!?" All the while she is passing out her body to the biggest bull****ter she can find. "Oh you love me? Why didn't you call me the last 4 nights? Oh you had to go to Mars, I love that you're an astronaut AND a doctor. I am so lucky." And then of course, "Hey, it's not women's fault these men are such good liars." Roll my eyes...lol Honest people are players of the dating game. They have respect for the game and reap the rewards. There are men and women that just don't respect the game. It's why they are single and can't have a relationship. If they do find someone it turns ugly and ends. The negative connotations that you all think of players that is the ones that don't respect the game. Beyond that disrespect of the game occurs to men and women that are not "Player posers"
Imported Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 A man who is HONEST with a woman of his intentions...who says "I don't want anything serious, I just want to fool around." That is not a player...he is not manipulating the woman. He is being up front and honest. A person who does not want to be in a relationship isn't simply a "player." You do this and sometimes women want more and still blame you and paint you the devil when you tell them no. 2
Babolat Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 One of the issues these days, is that the definitions of what is or is not a relationship... or casual... or a 'friend'... is wide open and subject to interpretation, and, not surprisingly... manipulation. "Hang out", "let's chill", "lets meet up" seem to be the "new" dating these days. I don't get it. Date, or don't date. I hear this all the time from my female friends, men want to have a female text buddy,they can invite over, but not actually take them on a date. Men will do this as long as women allow it. What I have seen with some of my female friends is they do not know how to say "No". Not sure if it's the attention they like, the distraction, both, I dunno. My female best friend probably has 10+ men that text her, yet she is not dating one of them, nor is she sleeping with any of them. Yet, she lets them flirt and play with her. I don't get it. It does seem to be acceptable these days, which is sad. Maybe it's all the different ways we have to communicate now (text, email, FB, Twitter, WhatsAp, HangOut, etc...), without a face to face, without a phone call.
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