Out of Love so Easily?????

[Bootsie]

This sounds like good advice - since she has actually been through it.

 

I'm not sure what is meant exactly by double-betrayal - starchild699 could you give an example of that without giving your specific details or do if it doesn't matter. I'm just curious. Thanks.

 

 

In affair-speak a double betrayal is for example where the OW is a sister or best friend of the BW, or the OM is a brother or best friend of the BH. Other possibilities include other close family members and other friendships too.

 

 

I know of a case where a man was having an A with his brother's wife more than 30 years ago, the family fallout was tremendous and continues to this day.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Bootsie

[KaliLove]

Geez..well I got my head bitten off but OP, all I meant was that you're better than this. You don't need a guy who's sitting on the fence. You deserve a guy who is putting you first, and no man who is married to someone else is EVER going to put you first.

 

I hope you'll go out and find someone who actually does deserve you.

[starchild699]

Mickey, I just wanted to add, I felt 'lost' for many many months. I'd lost my best friend without an opportunity to say goodbye and the addictive nature of affairs makes it hard to stop 'the loop' that will play over and over and over in your head. That's why exercise, getting out of the house, away from the computer is critical. Someone else wrote and I concur based on my experience, mentally prepare for a year minimum to feel somewhat normal again. Even then you'll still fight pangs.

 

I've remained NC with xMM but we still live in close proximity and our daughters remain friends so there are still triggers, life events and 'sightings' that yank my heartstrings. If you have some geographical distance consider it a blessing.

 

I like what ZMM wrote...

<You are going to make it, You are going to be fine. Stay positive. Think good thoughts about yourself. Remember how lovable of a person you are.>

 

My brother wrote me a similar message shortly after dday, adding: find something you love and hold on to it. For me, it was my daughter. She's been my saving grace. I felt myself finally turn a corner at year one. I'm feeling sunlight happiness and joy again. You will too.

 

Lastly, I find I'm always doing better when my focus is elevated spiritually, upward and outward, not inward. I know I echoed the advice of others to redirect the focus on you, not him - - that still holds true especially in the early months -- but aim to soak up good vibes positivity and enlightenment wherever you can find it and spread it around to others, to help extinguish the dark thoughts. Baby steps. No matter how tiny, each one counts. I'll send you some helpful links when I have more time.

 

hugs,

starchild

[Mickey1982]

My ex MM is truly not sitting on the fence. He threw me under the bus on d-day and decided that he would fall back in love with his wife. And, just a few days later, he claimed it happened. I am struggling to put this all behind me and move on. My biggest hurdle is getting past the realization that someone could do this after proclaiming their love just the day before. Besides that I struggle with trying to get angry which I have not been able to do yet---8 weeks NC and I still love the man who has destroyed me beyond belief.

[snappytomcat]

My ex MM is truly not sitting on the fence. He threw me under the bus on d-day and decided that he would fall back in love with his wife. And, just a few days later, he claimed it happened. I am struggling to put this all behind me and move on. My biggest hurdle is getting past the realization that someone could do this after proclaiming their love just the day before. Besides that I struggle with trying to get angry which I have not been able to do yet---8 weeks NC and I still love the man who has destroyed me beyond belief.[/quote

(((((((((hugs mickey)))))))))

im a bs,but I think we go through the same emotions after dday,believe me you will get angry,it took me like 2 weeks,to finally get angry,and boy did he pay,i was a crazy person,so unlike me,i was numb the first 2 weeks I believe,then the anger he was my husbandand my best friend,but I felt like a hated him,i would invision neutering him.

you will survive,you will pull through,and come out on top,its not easy its a long hard road,but you are strong

[Mickey1982]

Mickey, I just wanted to add, I felt 'lost' for many many months. I'd lost my best friend without an opportunity to say goodbye and the addictive nature of affairs makes it hard to stop 'the loop' that will play over and over and over in your head. That's why exercise, getting out of the house, away from the computer is critical. Someone else wrote and I concur based on my experience, mentally prepare for a year minimum to feel somewhat normal again. Even then you'll still fight pangs.

 

I've remained NC with xMM but we still live in close proximity and our daughters remain friends so there are still triggers, life events and 'sightings' that yank my heartstrings. If you have some geographical distance consider it a blessing.

 

I like what ZMM wrote...

<You are going to make it, You are going to be fine. Stay positive. Think good thoughts about yourself. Remember how lovable of a person you are.>

 

My brother wrote me a similar message shortly after dday, adding: find something you love and hold on to it. For me, it was my daughter. She's been my saving grace. I felt myself finally turn a corner at year one. I'm feeling sunlight happiness and joy again. You will too.

 

Lastly, I find I'm always doing better when my focus is elevated spiritually, upward and outward, not inward. I know I echoed the advice of others to redirect the focus on you, not him - - that still holds true especially in the early months -- but aim to soak up good vibes positivity and enlightenment wherever you can find it and spread it around to others, to help extinguish the dark thoughts. Baby steps. No matter how tiny, each one counts. I'll send you some helpful links when I have more time.

 

hugs,

starchild

 

 

Starchild---you described my feeling excatly "LOST"---plain and simple...LOST in so many many ways.

[Bootsie]

The children obviously complicate the issue greatly - that is something I did not have to deal with.

 

But if you want my opinion, for what it's worth - if he is telling you how happy he is and how much he loves his BS, it is very doubtful those are coming from his heart and his correspondence is not being monitored. If that were true, why would he say that? To rub it in and make you feel bad? I seriously doubt it.

 

 

I'd just like to address this from the perspective of a BW. As I've already said my fWH has always maintained that around D-day his love for the OW "evaporated", and that D-day and the disastrous aftermath was the trigger for that. Personally I don't quite understand this and because of my own doubts I've always wondered how this could be so. D-day is now years behind us, and surprisingly my H and I have made a good marriage and relationship for ourselves, something I would never have predicted at D-day. We are well into our 50s and still have an active sex life.

 

 

In no sense did we resume our previous lives without a care in the world. My H has never denied that he loved the OW and this has often been difficult for me. He has also struggled with his dreadful treatment of me (lies, manipulation, emotional abuse) during the A and his awful treatment of her especially after D-day (ending it abruptly after only a few days earlier telling her he loved her and wanted to be with her).

 

 

After d-day as many BWs do I went into sleuth mode trying to make sense of my own life for the previous few years, and working out what it was that he'd been doing and how he was able to deceive me so convincingly. However I could not monitor his phone calls and emails while he was at work so there was plenty of opportunity for them to communicate.

 

 

One thing I insisted on is that he did a final communication with her to tell her it was over. Note that I could not insist that the A was over, as that was clearly his decision, but that if it was over, then I felt that then he had an obligation to inform her of this, and the reasons. It was up to him whether or not he agreed with me (he did). So he told her I'd discovered their affair, that he loved me and wanted to stay with me, and that therefore he would not be in any form of contact with her ever again. He also apologised to her for hurting her but said he was sorrier for the hurt he'd caused me.

 

 

The OW most certainly knew he was married and had even come to my home to have sex in my bed, so you can imagine that considerations of her feelings was not high on my agenda, but I still felt she was owed the basic common decency of an explanation.

 

 

As a reader of these forums for many years now, I have concluded that the way things went down with us, is not uncommon. So while I understand that not every situation is the same, the pattern of what has happened to Mickey seems very similar to what happened to us, and many, many others I have read about here.

 

 

So here is my opinion:

 

 

1. If love was expressed and was felt, within the affair, then it is most likely love was there.

 

2. If there has been no contact since a week or so after D-day then it's most likely that this is what the MM wants.

 

3. If he told Mickey he loved his wife after D-day then he probably does.

 

4. If he told Mickey about how terrible his wife and marriage were then these were probably either lies or most likely exaggerations. My H said terrible things about me and our marriage to OW. Some were factual descriptions taken out of context. Yes I've shouted at him and the kids but he knows perfectly well I don't do it frequently or excessively.

 

5. Comments from other posters to the effect that "he never loved Mickey" or "he doesn't love his wife", or "his wife is making him write untrue things to Mickey in emails" are just their comments and I doubt they have much basis in reality.

 

6. Mickey for all that she presents well on this forum, is most likely someone who knew her man was married to someone else and knew what she was doing was likely to help damage/destroy her MM's marriage and family and inflict enormous pain on his BW and possibly others. While her pain and hurt now is genuine and she has been betrayed too, she is unlikely to be nowhere near as blindsided/devastated as the other ones that were betrayed.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Bootsie

[Cocochai]

My ex MM is truly not sitting on the fence. He threw me under the bus on d-day and decided that he would fall back in love with his wife. And, just a few days later, he claimed it happened. I am struggling to put this all behind me and move on. My biggest hurdle is getting past the realization that someone could do this after proclaiming their love just the day before. Besides that I struggle with trying to get angry which I have not been able to do yet---8 weeks NC and I still love the man who has destroyed me beyond belief.

 

It's not going to happen over night when it comes to getting over someone especially when it was an A... Also a Zebra hardly changes it's stripes unless your XMM is truly all for changing his ways being that you two were able to go over 3 years before a Dday.

 

I'm a work in progress myself and I know I'm still not unattached from my XMM but I still see why we always go NC... Nothing changes.

[Mickey1982]

6. Mickey for all that she presents well on this forum, is most likely someone who knew her man was married to someone else and knew what she was doing was likely to help damage/destroy her MM's marriage and family and inflict enormous pain on his BW and possibly others. While her pain and hurt now is genuine and she has been betrayed too, she is unlikely to be nowhere near as blindsided/devastated as the other ones that were betrayed.

 

MY exMM also knew he was married to someone else, knew what he was doing to help damage/destroy his marriage and family and inflict enormous pain on his BS.....it takes TWO to make an affair.

[Bootsie]

MY exMM also knew he was married to someone else, knew what he was doing to help damage/destroy his marriage and family and inflict enormous pain on his BS.....it takes TWO to make an affair.

 

 

Of course, he knew but sometimes an OW doesn't know. In your case you are an OW who did know. You are not responsible for what he has done to his wife and family but you most definitely are responsible, IMO, for your part in it all.

 

 

I agree you've been betrayed, but you've certainly given a lot of willing assistance to that same betrayer to betray another.

 

 

Some betrayers have a crisis of conscience at D-day, and it's my belief and my experience that for those that do, the co-betrayers are often discarded. Certainly not fair, but it happens.

 

 

If your MM's wife did in fact play a part in his final communications with you, in agreeing that he ought to let you know that it was over, then in some ways you are lucky, that she perhaps had more consideration for your feelings than you would appear, to her, to have had for hers.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Bootsie

[ZMM]

I'd just like to address this from the perspective of a BW. As I've already said my fWH has always maintained that around D-day his love for the OW "evaporated", and that D-day and the disastrous aftermath was the trigger for that. Personally I don't quite understand this and because of my own doubts I've always wondered how this could be so. D-day is now years behind us, and surprisingly my H and I have made a good marriage and relationship for ourselves, something I would never have predicted at D-day. We are well into our 50s and still have an active sex life.

 

 

In no sense did we resume our previous lives without a care in the world. My H has never denied that he loved the OW and this has often been difficult for me. He has also struggled with his dreadful treatment of me (lies, manipulation, emotional abuse) during the A and his awful treatment of her especially after D-day (ending it abruptly after only a few days earlier telling her he loved her and wanted to be with her).

 

 

After d-day as many BWs do I went into sleuth mode trying to make sense of my own life for the previous few years, and working out what it was that he'd been doing and how he was able to deceive me so convincingly. However I could not monitor his phone calls and emails while he was at work so there was plenty of opportunity for them to communicate.

 

 

One thing I insisted on is that he did a final communication with her to tell her it was over. Note that I could not insist that the A was over, as that was clearly his decision, but that if it was over, then I felt that then he had an obligation to inform her of this, and the reasons. It was up to him whether or not he agreed with me (he did). So he told her I'd discovered their affair, that he loved me and wanted to stay with me, and that therefore he would not be in any form of contact with her ever again. He also apologised to her for hurting her but said he was sorrier for the hurt he'd caused me.

 

 

The OW most certainly knew he was married and had even come to my home to have sex in my bed, so you can imagine that considerations of her feelings was not high on my agenda, but I still felt she was owed the basic common decency of an explanation.

 

 

As a reader of these forums for many years now, I have concluded that the way things went down with us, is not uncommon. So while I understand that not every situation is the same, the pattern of what has happened to Mickey seems very similar to what happened to us, and many, many others I have read about here.

 

 

So here is my opinion:

 

 

1. If love was expressed and was felt, within the affair, then it is most likely love was there.

 

2. If there has been no contact since a week or so after D-day then it's most likely that this is what the MM wants.

 

3. If he told Mickey he loved his wife after D-day then he probably does.

 

4. If he told Mickey about how terrible his wife and marriage were then these were probably either lies or most likely exaggerations. My H said terrible things about me and our marriage to OW. Some were factual descriptions taken out of context. Yes I've shouted at him and the kids but he knows perfectly well I don't do it frequently or excessively.

 

5. Comments from other posters to the effect that "he never loved Mickey" or "he doesn't love his wife", or "his wife is making him write untrue things to Mickey in emails" are just their comments and I doubt they have much basis in reality.

 

6. Mickey for all that she presents well on this forum, is most likely someone who knew her man was married to someone else and knew what she was doing was likely to help damage/destroy her MM's marriage and family and inflict enormous pain on his BW and possibly others. While her pain and hurt now is genuine and she has been betrayed too, she is unlikely to be nowhere near as blindsided/devastated as the other ones that were betrayed.

 

WOW! Great Post. I know when I was posting earlier, I got a little carried away. It upset me that people were telling Mickey it was all a fantasy and he never loved her. I don't know if he really did. I am pretty sure he did. But, I don't know for sure. I just couldn't see what good it did to tell her that when it more than likely wasn't true and all it would do is make her feel worse. So, I kind of went overboard the other way.

 

Hoping for the best for you Mickey!!!

Edited March 27, 2014 by ZMM

[ZMM]

MY exMM also knew he was married to someone else, knew what he was doing to help damage/destroy his marriage and family and inflict enormous pain on his BS.....it takes TWO to make an affair.

 

You didn't know BS, you knew she existed, but she wasn't some friend of yours. That's all on him. IMO

 

It's not your responsibility to protect his marriage.

 

A lot of people don't see it that way, but I do.

[Mickey1982]

I think it is an unfair assumption to state that the OW/OM is unlikely to be nowhere near as blindsided/devastated as the BS when an affair ends/is brought to light.

 

We are all capable of varying emotions and thresholds for pain, sadness and anger---to make that general conjecture that one feels MORE than the other is a biased one-sided opinion that should not be generalized.

[Hope Shimmers]

I think it is an unfair assumption to state that the OW/OM is unlikely to be nowhere near as blindsided/devastated as the BS when an affair ends/is brought to light.

 

We are all capable of varying emotions and thresholds for pain, sadness and anger---to make that general conjecture that one feels MORE than the other is a biased one-sided opinion that should not be generalized.

 

I also had a HUGE problem with this part of the post.

 

NO ONE can suggest how much pain another person is feeling. I have read on here many times, directed to OW: "take your pain and multiply it 1000 times and that's what the BS is going through". NO ONE knows that.

 

The amount of pain and devastation and destruction that my AP left me with was beyond words. Nothing in this world could have destroyed me more. I was married 16 years and a d-day with my H at the time - finding out he cheated on me - would not have been anywhere close to what I went through.

 

I almost did not get through the end of my A. I almost killed myself.

 

Please - no one should try to compare or minimize another person's pain.

[Bootsie]

You didn't know BS, you knew she existed, but she wasn't some friend of yours. That's all on him. IMO

 

It's not your responsibility to protect his marriage.

 

A lot of people don't see it that way, but I do.

 

 

A lot of OW/OM feel this way too. Obviously I don't agree. Well I do agree it was his responsibility to protect his marriage, but I also think other people shouldn't invade or insert themselves into other's marriages.

 

 

I must admit that when I see this view expressed, I wonder whether it was the right thing for me to have encouraged my H to contact the OW that one last time, in an attempt to give her an explanation and perhaps some small level of closure.

 

 

I really don't know for sure whether she held this view (that it was solely on him) but if she did, then obviously the small amount of sympathy I had for her plight (being summarily discarded after D-day ) was probably wasted. She did actually give me a written apology so maybe she did feel bad about her part in it.

 

 

I tend to take people at face value so I prefer to believe that she did feel bad and that therefore it was the right thing for me to have a small amount of concern about how she felt. If I had known for sure that she felt no responsibility at all, then I would not have so strongly encouraged my apparently repentant husband to treat her as well as he did after D-day.

 

 

We don't know for sure to what extent the BW in Mickey's situation was involved in her H's final communications with Mickey. In a typical situation where the WH genuinely loves his wife, wants to stay married and reconcile fully with his wife, then he informs his BW about any contact with the OW (this is what happened in my case). The way I see it, if this is what has happened then it's sad the Mickey is unable to see the kindness that has been shown her by the BW in particular, in the absence of her own kind behaviour.

[Mickey1982]

My final communication with my exMM was a phone conversation with him ...his final words to me were "I Love YOU"...the end.

[sunburned]

I think it is an unfair assumption to state that the OW/OM is unlikely to be nowhere near as blindsided/devastated as the BS when an affair ends/is brought to light.

 

We are all capable of varying emotions and thresholds for pain, sadness and anger---to make that general conjecture that one feels MORE than the other is a biased one-sided opinion that should not be generalized.

 

I think what she meant was as hurt and stunned as you were after 3.5 years, imagine all the more so for someone in it for 20 (?) years, who also has a legal and spiritual (presumably) commitment. Also, the W starts with the right to assume fidelity and that if there is some change in the marital status, she will be notified. The OW/OM do not have the same "right" to assume fidelity and honesty when getting involved with a MM/MW.

 

 

I would go so far as to say Bootsie, who has identified herself as a BW, has demonstrated tremendous capacity to understand both sides of the equation or all sides of the triangle. Whatever your math of choice ...

[ZMM]

I think it is an unfair assumption to state that the OW/OM is unlikely to be nowhere near as blindsided/devastated as the BS when an affair ends/is brought to light.

 

We are all capable of varying emotions and thresholds for pain, sadness and anger---to make that general conjecture that one feels MORE than the other is a biased one-sided opinion that should not be generalized.

 

 

Yeah, another good point. In many cases, it wouldn't be all that unlikely that the OW is hurt more. It really depends on the people involved and how much the BW truly loved WH and how much OW loved MM. All things that are impossible to measure.

[Hope Shimmers]

I think what she meant was as hurt and stunned as you were after 3.5 years, imagine all the more so for someone in it for 20 (?) years, who also has a legal and spiritual (presumably) commitment. Also, the W starts with the right to assume fidelity and that if there is some change in the marital status, she will be notified. The OW/OM do not have the same "right" to assume fidelity and honesty when getting involved with a MM/MW.

 

 

I would go so far as to say Bootsie, who has identified herself as a BW, has demonstrated tremendous capacity to understand both sides of the equation or all sides of the triangle. Whatever your math of choice ...

 

I'm sorry but (as I said in my post a few minutes ago) I disagree with this. No one gets to judge another person's pain. Years involved don't - in every case - make it hurt more.

 

I do agree that the OW does not get the "right" to assume fidelity/honesty, but that has nothing to do with level of pain. I hope never EVER to go through that kind of pain again - I would not live through it this time.

[ZMM]

A lot of OW/OM feel this way too. Obviously I don't agree. Well I do agree it was his responsibility to protect his marriage, but I also think other people shouldn't invade or insert themselves into other's marriages.

 

Maybe in an ideal world - but I just think the responsibility is totally on MM. After all OW is single, and she is not at all connected to BW and she really is not betraying anyone.

 

That's JMO. Your opinion is equally as valid for you.

[Mickey1982]

I think what she meant was as hurt and stunned as you were after 3.5 years, imagine all the more so for someone in it for 20 (?) years, who also has a legal and spiritual (presumably) commitment. Also, the W starts with the right to assume fidelity and that if there is some change in the marital status, she will be notified. The OW/OM do not have the same "right" to assume fidelity and honesty when getting involved with a MM/MW.

 

 

I would go so far as to say Bootsie, who has identified herself as a BW, has demonstrated tremendous capacity to understand both sides of the equation or all sides of the triangle. Whatever your math of choice ...

 

 

Most of the time, the OW/OM suffers alone in silence whereas the BS is given support even if only by the WS.

[Bootsie]

I think it is an unfair assumption to state that the OW/OM is unlikely to be nowhere near as blindsided/devastated as the BS when an affair ends/is brought to light.

 

We are all capable of varying emotions and thresholds for pain, sadness and anger---to make that general conjecture that one feels MORE than the other is a biased one-sided opinion that should not be generalized.

 

 

I'm sorry I didn't mean to convey that one feels more pain/emotion/hurt than the other as I actually agree with you. I really meant to say that the level of surprise about the fact that someone had been having an affair was different (which is what I meant by being blindsided as often the BW has no idea that there is someone else in her husband's life).

 

 

An OW who knows the man is married would not be at all surprised to learn there is more than one woman in his life, although I agree she might be surprised to learn the degree of feeling he has for his wife, as you seem to be.

 

 

My opinion is of course mine and as I've clearly stated I'm a BW and coming from that perspective. It doesn't make my opinion invalid.

 

 

I tried really hard to consider the feelings of the OW in my case, so I don't accept that I was as one-sided as an OW who doesn't consider the wife's feelings at all.

[Bootsie]

Most of the time, the OW/OM suffers alone in silence whereas the BS is given support even if only by the WS.

 

 

This is true as often an OW has no one to talk to in real life, hence the purpose of these types of forums.

 

 

Sadly a BW often has only the support of the person who caused all her pain; a bit of an irony really. I can tell you from experience that recovering a marriage that has been all but destroyed by infidelity, is very difficult for both parties.

 

 

Sometimes on this board a recently "thrown under the bus" OW will comment that her MM has sailed off into the sunset with his BW, or they are both burying their heads in the sand and just existing in their miserable marriage (lots of clichés I know). It is so far from the truth.

 

 

I get the impression Mickey that you are too close to D-day, and wrapped up in your own pain, to want to hear the other side of the story, even though you started off asking about how could the love just disappear.

[sunburned]

Most of the time, the OW/OM suffers alone in silence whereas the BS is given support even if only by the WS.

That is true. When my own A ended, I suffered alone because it wasn't like I could tell anyone about it. And, just to clarify, I agree you can't measure pain. It's not a contest between you and the BS. But part of your hurt stems from the number of years you were in the A and being told how much you were loved for the duration of the A. I'm saying she was in an R with him for much longer and (presumably) being told the same things PLUS she had an official commitment (marriage!) where she could safely assume theirs was a monogamous R.

 

 

Mickey, your pain is so raw and it is devastating to read. As someone else pointed out, you've been shown a lot more sympathy on this board than a lot of other OW. I've tried to follow the entire thread. It's possible I missed some entries because it is long, but I don't recall your taking any responsibility for this A, you don't talk about how the two of you got involved. You don't mention what your desired end game was.

 

 

You've been through a lot ... I think you deserve a free pass to wallow and feel whatever you want to feel for a few weeks. But, as wiser posters have said, you need to turn your focus inward at some point. Why did you agree to being an OW in the first place, for example. How long were you willing to be that leg of the triangle? Stop worrying about him and what he's feeling. He feels awful too, but it seems he isn't going anywhere.

[Hope Shimmers]

That is true. When my own A ended, I suffered alone because it wasn't like I could tell anyone about it. And, just to clarify, I agree you can't measure pain. It's not a contest between you and the BS. But part of your hurt stems from the number of years you were in the A and being told how much you were loved for the duration of the A. I'm saying she was in an R with him for much longer and (presumably) being told the same things PLUS she had an official commitment (marriage!) where she could safely assume theirs was a monogamous R.

 

 

Mickey, your pain is so raw and it is devastating to read. As someone else pointed out, you've been shown a lot more sympathy on this board than a lot of other OW. I've tried to follow the entire thread. It's possible I missed some entries because it is long, but I don't recall your taking any responsibility for this A, you don't talk about how the two of you got involved. You don't mention what your desired end game was.

 

 

You've been through a lot ... I think you deserve a free pass to wallow and feel whatever you want to feel for a few weeks. But, as wiser posters have said, you need to turn your focus inward at some point. Why did you agree to being an OW in the first place, for example. How long were you willing to be that leg of the triangle? Stop worrying about him and what he's feeling. He feels awful too, but it seems he isn't going anywhere.

 

This is a great post.