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Question for people 35+ who have never been married

RedRobin

By RedRobin
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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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I think what you need to understand is that older men aren't going around like creepy old predators looking for younger women...Its the other way around...Quality older men are actively sought after by attractive younger women...Its just a fact of life...Maybe thats the part that pisses you off...??

 

Maybe hate the game, not the player??

 

 

TFY

 

 

Having worked around all men my entire life...

 

 

... I can attest to the fact that many older men ARE going around like creepy old predators looking for a younger woman. Sure, some of them have managed to fix the 'creep' problem... but the outcome is the same.

 

 

You are right that I can't help if some of those women go along with it... Maybe she doesn't value her youth like I do. Maybe she doesn't think she can do well for herself... Maybe she is just tired of looking. Who knows?

 

 

... and I wouldn't call those guys 'quality'... IMHO, anyone who has to be with someone much younger to feel good about himself isn't 'quality' in my book.

thefooloftheyear Established Member

thefooloftheyear

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Having worked around all men my entire life...

 

 

... I can attest to the fact that many older men ARE going around like creepy old predators looking for a younger woman. Sure, some of them have managed to fix the 'creep' problem... but the outcome is the same.

 

 

You are right that I can't help if some of those women go along with it... Maybe she doesn't value her youth like I do. Maybe she doesn't think she can do well for herself... Maybe she is just tired of looking. Who knows?

 

 

... and I wouldn't call those guys 'quality'... IMHO, anyone who has to be with someone much younger to feel good about himself isn't 'quality' in my book.

 

 

Eh...it wouldn't be my thing...but I can tell you from experience that many young women like to be around good looking middle aged and successful men..I dont know if you can characterize them based on this...If someone wants you and is much younger, why not?? Certainly they have a right..

 

Just seems like as women get older(not saying you), they absolutely DESPISE younger women that pursue older men...*shrug*..Its a competitiveness thing..They just assume the guy is going to go for the ripe young'in...and that annoys the hell out of them,,

 

TFY

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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Eh...it wouldn't be my thing...but I can tell you from experience that many young women like to be around good looking middle aged and successful men..I dont know if you can characterize them based on this...If someone wants you and is much younger, why not?? Certainly they have a right..

 

Just seems like as women get older(not saying you), they absolutely DESPISE younger women that pursue older men...*shrug*..Its a competitiveness thing..They just assume the guy is going to go for the ripe young'in...and that annoys the hell out of them,,

 

TFY

 

 

I don't personally know any bright, self-sufficient, attractive young women who want to date middle aged men or older... no matter how good they look or how much money they have. They might flirt with them if they think he can help them get ahead... but they would never sleep with him. Sure... let him wine and dine her and see where it gets him. :rolleyes:

 

I tell a lot of people that there is no such thing as sleeping your way to the top... There is only the appearance of such... or making him think you would.

 

The minute a woman actually sleeps with, dates, or marries a guy like that, she becomes the tart and the trophy. Not really someone to be respected on her own. *shrug* If that is the best they can do, then I can't say I really envy them. I mean... does anyone remember the names of any of the women George Clooney has dated?? No. Those women just looked ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as George. Almost... not quite.

 

Women have plenty of other avenues these days to make their way in the world... no reason to settle for much older men.

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KathyM Established Member

KathyM

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The problem isn't whether the guy had one ONS in the past... of course if his other relationship history indicated he was more relationship or commitment oriented, then I could overlook that.... especially if it were in the long distant past.

 

 

What I won't do is date any men with a recent history of casual sex, and especially not FWB. I don't care how he feels about it now or what story he tries to spin about it. After my divorce and later, my fiancée's death... I could have done those things too. And was tempted to as well (as many people here could attest to)... but I don't want to be a hypocrite.

 

 

Furthermore, I see it as a 'reward' for those guys... they do whatever they friggin want and call it 'personal growth', then try to snag some woman who has some discipline and a good head on her shoulders. Why don't I deserve the same in return??

 

 

A decent guy with a good head on his shoulders who doesn't define his self worth by how many women he sleeps with, how much younger they are than him... or what he can get away with. Seems pretty basic when put in writing.

 

 

Am I waiting for the guy to do or say something wrong? Not really. All of the things I'm talking about... the promiscuity, the inordinate attention on dating younger, the hangups about gender and stupid discussions about dominance/submission...

 

 

... the well-balanced men I associate with don't have these issues.

 

 

Heck, it doesn't even come up because they don't view a relationship is a one up/one down proposition... and they don't take advantage. Even when they could. It's kind of subtle at times... but very simple and obvious when I come across it IRL.

I understand, and I think it's admirable that you have such high standards for yourself and for the men you date. I wish more women were like you in that they held men to a higher standard, I was just sensing some overly black and white thinking that I thought I would mention. Like if the guy had ever in the past had a ONS, or if the guy ever had a fiinancial issue, or if he is a year older than your cutoff age, or if he ever says something that you find off color/whatever, that you are going to immediately dump him. That would be pretty ridged and black and white, which could potentially eliminate a lot of quality men. Five years older is not much of an age difference. My husband is 6 years older than me, and we've been happily married for a long time and have three sons who are now young adults. My mother married a man who was 5 years older than her, and they have been happily married for 50 years until he passed away a few years ago. I totally understand your aversion to large age gaps, and the issues that come from that, but 5 years older and you're going to discard/reject the guy? Really? When your standards get that strict, you may want to reconsider, because you could be passing up a lot of great quality guys if you are going to stick to such a strict standard. Just a thought.

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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I understand, and I think it's admirable that you have such high standards for yourself and for the men you date. I wish more women were like you in that they held men to a higher standard, I was just sensing some overly black and white thinking that I thought I would mention. Like if the guy had ever in the past had a ONS, or if the guy ever had a financial issue, or if he is a year older than your cutoff age, or if he ever says something that you find off color/whatever, that you are going to immediately dump him. That would be pretty ridged and black and white, which could potentially eliminate a lot of quality men. Five years older is not much of an age difference. My husband is 6 years older than me, and we've been happily married for a long time and have three sons who are now young adults. My mother married a man who was 5 years older than her, and they have been happily married for 50 years until he passed away a few years ago. I totally understand your aversion to large age gaps, and the issues that come from that, but 5 years older and you're going to discard/reject the guy? Really? When your standards get that strict, you may want to reconsider, because you could be passing up a lot of great quality guys if you are going to stick to such a strict standard. Just a thought.

 

 

It depends. Yes, those things are red flags to me. There are things I would immediately dump a guy for, yes. Most of them based on how they treat me, not necessarily the things you mention above...

 

 

The things you mention above... I might and have stuck around a bit longer to see how the rest plays out. It's how I came to my conclusions in the first place. I've never come across one yet who has other qualities sufficient to make me overlook what you mention above. Usually there is lots of other negative stuff that goes along with those issues...

 

 

Five years is plenty, IMHO. Most of those same guys wouldn't seriously date and especially not marry a woman who was more than even a couple of years older than him.... and I hate hypocrites.

KathyM Established Member

KathyM

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RR, I have to leave for work right now, but I'll respond to your post later tonight when I get back.

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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Maybe thats the part that pisses you off...??

 

 

The part that pisses me off is that I'm expected to feel grateful to have the attention of 'men' who wouldn't give the time a day to the same woman if the roles were reversed.

 

 

No. I don't want those men.... and for the life of me... I don't understand why other women would either.

thefooloftheyear Established Member

thefooloftheyear

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I don't personally know any bright, self-sufficient, attractive young women who want to date middle aged men or older... no matter how good they look or how much money they have. They might flirt with them if they think he can help them get ahead... but they would never sleep with him. Sure... let him wine and dine her and see where it gets him. :rolleyes:

 

I tell a lot of people that there is no such thing as sleeping your way to the top... There is only the appearance of such... or making him think you would.

 

The minute a woman actually sleeps with, dates, or marries a guy like that, she becomes the tart and the trophy. Not really someone to be respected on her own. *shrug* If that is the best they can do, then I can't say I really envy them. I mean... does anyone remember the names of any of the women George Clooney has dated?? No. Those women just looked ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as George. Almost... not quite.

 

Women have plenty of other avenues these days to make their way in the world... no reason to settle for much older men.

 

I think you just cut down your own gender....and didnt even realize it....:p:laugh:...To them, theyd rather "settle" with a guy that is everything physically(often moreso) than a guy their own age is..and is usually way more mature than the typical guy her age that is still playing Minecraft and making barely minimum wage selling microwaves at Best Buy..

 

One of my good friends got divorced when he was in his mid 40's and met(and married) an absolutely stunning woman thats(I think) around 30 or so..When I see them, they are peers...He works out like crazy, he surfs, ski's, waterski's, owns a motorcross bike, etc....and he is a successful businessman thats pretty much financially independent...Id never(nor would anyone else) view his wife as a trophy or tart......:rolleyes:....and lets leave out the Hollywood elite.....Nothing about them makes any sense to anyone in real life..

 

And you are absolutely correct...Women today have options...And they are WAY more mature than their male counterparts(at the early stages)..If they choose to go that route, then good for them..*shrug*

 

I think what you are talking about is the wealthy old, grey, limpdick codger with the young hottie..(Anna Nicole Smith)....That stuff is creeoy and wrong..No different than the old hag thats getting banged my the landscaper..

 

TFY

KathyM Established Member

KathyM

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It depends. Yes, those things are red flags to me. There are things I would immediately dump a guy for, yes. Most of them based on how they treat me, not necessarily the things you mention above...

 

 

The things you mention above... I might and have stuck around a bit longer to see how the rest plays out. It's how I came to my conclusions in the first place. I've never come across one yet who has other qualities sufficient to make me overlook what you mention above. Usually there is lots of other negative stuff that goes along with those issues...

Hmm. My nephews, now in their mid to late 20s, went through a rough time after their parents divorced, and engaged in some drugs, drinking and promiscuity until they found their direction and are now both wonderful young men with colllege degrees, high paying jobs, high moral character, and are wonderful husbands and fathers. My friend's son, late 20s, college degree, highly intelligent, wonderful moral character, wonderful husband and father, had to file bankruptcy a few years ago because of a failed business venture. His credit rating was pretty bad after the bankruptcy, but he is now fully recovered financially. In fact, I know several young men who made mistakes when younger, but are now fine young men who have wonderful character, ambition, and success. I'm just saying, people make mistakes, but many do turn their life around, change their attitude, and make wonderful partners.

 

 

Five years is plenty, IMHO. Most of those same guys wouldn't seriously date and especially not marry a woman who was more than even a couple of years older than him.... and I hate hypocrites.

i know a lot of happily married couples who have an age gap of 5 or 6 years either way. Some have husbands 5 or 6 years older. Some have wives 3, 4 and 5 years older. Five years is not much difference either way.

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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Well, TFY, if I follow your logic, then I should be hitting on much younger men... because there aren't any men my own age around me who are my peers physically...

 

 

... and as far as maturity level... I don't buy that either.

 

 

A whole lot of men close to my age seem to be intent on reliving their adolescence (if they ever left it... never married men never left it). Only difference is that they now have all of the extra cr*p to deal with I already mentioned...

 

 

... and that guy you mentioned?? He'll be an old codger soon enough and his young idiot wife who can't be bothered to think ahead even 5 years forward on her own life will be wondering what the heck she saw in him...

 

 

or... she'll be like so many other women who squeeze out a few kids with a guy his age, then dump him for the similar age peer.... Can't tell you how many guys I've met who had THAT happen.

 

 

40 something guys with very small children they had with their second, much younger wife... and all I can think of is... hmm... oh... NOW you want someone your own age, huh buddy?? Riiiight....

 

 

(shaking head)

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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Hmm. My nephews, now in their mid to late 20s, went through a rough time after their parents divorced, and engaged in some drugs, drinking and promiscuity until they found their direction and are now both wonderful young men with colllege degrees, high paying jobs, high moral character, and are wonderful husbands and fathers. My friend's son, late 20s, college degree, highly intelligent, wonderful moral character, wonderful husband and father, had to file bankruptcy a few years ago because of a failed business venture. His credit rating was pretty bad after the bankruptcy, but he is now fully recovered financially. In fact, I know several young men who made mistakes when younger, but are now fine young men who have wonderful character, ambition, and success. I'm just saying, people make mistakes, but many do turn their life around, change their attitude, and make wonderful partners.

 

i know a lot of happily married couples who have an age gap of 5 or 6 years either way. Some have husbands 5 or 6 years older. Some have wives 3, 4 and 5 years older. Five years is not much difference either way.

 

 

If they made those mistakes very young, and they didn't carry them on for a considerable period of time, then there is less chance it becomes ingrained in their life. However, I learned rather the hard way with my ex-H that people tend to slip into old bad habits once things get tough though. So unless it was VERY distant and they've thoroughly established themselves in the present, I'm not interested.

 

 

Thing is, I'm sick of meeting these men with the same old story. It's not up to women to redeem them. If roles were reversed, those men wouldn't choose a woman who had done the things you mentioned... or even done the same things as him... so why should I settle for a guy who has either?? Because there are more of them??

 

 

Five years +/- is the range I consider an age peer. Beyond that, I don't think they are.

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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TFY...

 

When I see a man marry someone much younger than him, I always conclude she is a trophy. If the guy didn't have a lot of $$, he couldn't afford one. That's the definition of a trophy.

 

If he doesn't have a lot of $$, then I view her as desperate or daddy issues. In any case, it doesn't reflect well on her IMHO to settle for an older guy.

 

 

... and yea, I AM cutting down my own gender. For the life of me, I can't understand why these women can't think ahead even a few years... or take the effort needed to put their life in order so they don't HAVE to settle.

 

 

Maybe I need to take a page out of the book of my similar age peers... just have fun with younger guys and forget about relationships or wanting to get married again.... and if it happens it happens... if it doesn't... at least I'm not stuck dating old guys or same age guys who aren't any more commitment minded than their younger counterparts. *shrug*

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KathyM Established Member

KathyM

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If they made those mistakes very young, and they didn't carry them on for a considerable period of time, then there is less chance it becomes ingrained in their life.

They were late teens and early 20s during their rebellious period. By mid 20s, they were responsible young men who had turned their life around. But I agree with you that men in their late 20s and up who still behave like irresponsible adolescents are a poor risk for a relationship partner.

However, I learned rather the hard way with my ex-H that people tend to slip into old bad habits once things get tough though. So unless it was VERY distant and they've thoroughly established themselves in the present, I'm not interested.
i agree that engrained habits are difficult to break, and some people never grow up and become responsible adults.

 

Thing is, I'm sick of meeting these men with the same old story. It's not up to women to redeem them. If roles were reversed, those men wouldn't choose a woman who had done the things you mentioned... or even done the same things as him... so why should I settle for a guy who has either?? Because there are more of them??

i think there's a difference between men who went through a rebellious period in their early youth, and men who are late 20s and up who never grew up.

 

Five years +/- is the range I consider an age peer. Beyond that, I don't think they are.

Agreed, when there is too much of an age gap, there are usually differences that make them incompatible for the long term.

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TB Rhine Established Member

TB Rhine

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I don't personally know any bright, self-sufficient, attractive young women who want to date middle aged men or older...

 

By which she's referring to her own (less attractive) friends, and ugly chicks with pretty smiles.

robbysurfs Established Member

robbysurfs

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I am 38 year old guy and I would get married but have not met the right woman. I am sure she is out there that beautiful 26 yr old. hahaha. Seriously, women in their late 30's like pushing 40 are cool because they just want a "good time". Women in their mid to late 20's like 26 to 29 are cool they just want to have a "good time". Women in their 30 to like 35 are down right scary they want a baby,marriage, and the house yadda yadda. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting those things in life. If your pursuit is a relentless one guys can smell that a mile away and most times will run for the hills. Best advice is go easy and dont try so hard maybe try having a good time...My problem is where do you find a woman with the mentality of a 40yr old with the body of a hmmmm 29yr old hahahahahhaha....

KathyM Established Member

KathyM

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I don't personally know any bright, self-sufficient, attractive young women who want to date middle aged men or older... no matter how good they look or how much money they have.

Yep, same here: the women I know who are or have been interested/willing to date much older men either had daddy issues or other psychological issues (i.e., personality disorders, schizophrenia, dependency issues., etc.)

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gaius Established Member

gaius

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Yep, same here: the women I know who are or have been interested/willing to date much older men either had daddy issues or other psychological issues (i.e., personality disorders, schizophrenia, dependency issues., etc.)

So what condition does the older person who's willing to date the younger suffer from? :confused:

 

If anyone fits with a younger guy it's you Red. In great shape and super passionate. But it seems like you think they all would have the same view about you that you have about older guys. :( I get the vibe that in a way you're talking about yourself when you talk about older men a lot of times.

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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By which she's referring to her own (less attractive) friends, and ugly chicks with pretty smiles.

 

 

Nope. I'm thinking of my stunning female friends and family who married men their own age... and single women I volunteer with.

 

 

What they all have in common is that they have something else going for them besides their looks. They don't need or want to latch onto an older guy... well, they don't need to have sex with them or date them to get ahead.

 

 

If all a woman has going for her is her looks, then I suppose selling off her youth or latching onto a guy in the hopes he can do something for her career is the best she can do. Yep, there will always be those.

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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So what condition does the older person who's willing to date the younger suffer from? :confused:

 

If anyone fits with a younger guy it's you Red. In great shape and super passionate. But it seems like you think they all would have the same view about you that you have about older guys. :( I get the vibe that in a way you're talking about yourself when you talk about older men a lot of times.

 

 

Maybe. I think a lot of men would eff just about anything.

 

 

It's not necessarily a compliment.

 

 

You know I'm right... ;)

 

 

robbysurfs,

 

guys who just wanna have a 'good time' are not my idea of fun. Just like inviting random people over to my house to party and trash the furniture isn't my idea of fun. Somehow, someway... There is always a mess to clean up afterwards. *shrug*

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gaius Established Member

gaius

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Maybe. I think a lot of men would eff just about anything.

 

It's not necessarily a compliment.

 

You know I'm right... ;)

Well, men whoring aside which you are right about :p I don't think you being older precludes a guy from finding the kind of connection that would make him want to take you home and keep you. A guy losing interest as you get older can happen with a partner of any age. I don't think it's more or less likely when they're younger.

 

I'm probably going to suffer greatly for this :p but Disenchantedly was older than I was. Almost outside your age parameters. And honest to god I couldn't get her out of my head. Her being 20 years older or getting a few wrinkles wouldn't have changed that. Certainly wasn't selling off my youth or being taken advantage of. Was making the most of it by by being with the one I wanted to be with.

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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Well, men whoring aside which you are right about :p I don't think you being older precludes a guy from finding the kind of connection that would make him want to take you home and keep you. A guy losing interest as you get older can happen with a partner of any age. I don't think it's more or less likely when they're younger.

 

I'm probably going to suffer greatly for this :p but Disenchantedly was older than I was. Almost outside your age parameters. And honest to god I couldn't get her out of my head. Her being 20 years older or getting a few wrinkles wouldn't have changed that. Certainly wasn't selling off my youth or being taken advantage of. Was making the most of it by by being with the one I wanted to be with.

 

 

A guy who is 5 years younger? That's not outside my age parameters. 5 years +/-

 

 

Anything outside that I wouldn't take seriously.

 

 

I've come to a decision on the never married thing too... Ok for just having fun. Not for anything serious... and since I'm not a 'just for having fun' kind of person... guess they are out as dating prospects.

thefooloftheyear Established Member

thefooloftheyear

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TFY...

 

When I see a man marry someone much younger than him, I always conclude she is a trophy. If the guy didn't have a lot of $$, he couldn't afford one. That's the definition of a trophy.

 

If he doesn't have a lot of $$, then I view her as desperate or daddy issues. In any case, it doesn't reflect well on her IMHO to settle for an older guy.

 

 

... and yea, I AM cutting down my own gender. For the life of me, I can't understand why these women can't think ahead even a few years... or take the effort needed to put their life in order so they don't HAVE to settle.

 

 

Maybe I need to take a page out of the book of my similar age peers... just have fun with younger guys and forget about relationships or wanting to get married again.... and if it happens it happens... if it doesn't... at least I'm not stuck dating old guys or same age guys who aren't any more commitment minded than their younger counterparts. *shrug*

 

I

You're absolutely wrong about the "trophy" thing....What can I tell you..life doesn't end for men of my age..I wish I can show you a pic of a buddy of mine..He is 63....You would think he's 43 and his body is better than just about any 25 year old..Its not about money all the time..Its the type of the man..The guy I mentioned before makes a bunch, but his wife is an account exec that makes well over a hundred....And he made her sign a prenup anyway, so if she was in it for the money, then she is going to be disappointed....

 

And "having fun with younger guys" isnt the same thing...These women WANT a relationship with the guy..They arent into a hookups..Do they have daddy issues or are they gold diggers? Maybe some of them do, but not the ones that I have seen...

 

It just seems like some women get angry that a guy has choices..Then the older women are forced to compete with the younger and more attractive women-which they hate....Like if he doesn't fall for the woman his age, then there "must be something wrong"...In fact, its kinda sad all the shaming and name calling of these women..

 

TFY

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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I

You're absolutely wrong about the "trophy" thing....What can I tell you..life doesn't end for men of my age..I wish I can show you a pic of a buddy of mine..He is 63....You would think he's 43 and his body is better than just about any 25 year old..Its not about money all the time..Its the type of the man..The guy I mentioned before makes a bunch, but his wife is an account exec that makes well over a hundred....And he made her sign a prenup anyway, so if she was in it for the money, then she is going to be disappointed....

 

And "having fun with younger guys" isnt the same thing...These women WANT a relationship with the guy..They arent into a hookups..Do they have daddy issues or are they gold diggers? Maybe some of them do, but not the ones that I have seen...

 

It just seems like some women get angry that a guy has choices..Then the older women are forced to compete with the younger and more attractive women-which they hate....Like if he doesn't fall for the woman his age, then there "must be something wrong"...In fact, its kinda sad all the shaming and name calling of these women..

 

TFY

 

 

You can deny it all you want... Just because they manage to hold it together on the outside doesn't change the insides.

 

 

Doesn't change the fact that they have fragile little egos that need the validation of someone much younger... or they are control freaks who need to feel superior in some way. Those aren't partnerships.

 

 

I'm not competing with anyone. I don't want men who are insecure in their manhood, can't handle their own aging process, think they are better than women their own age, and need to feel superior to their partner in order to feel comfortable.

 

 

THAT is what I see when I see a much older man with a younger woman. A pathetic sad sack of a man who needs to suck the life out of someone and can't deal with life. Not sure why anyone thinks he's accomplished anything. Same way I don't value players.

 

 

The fact that women go along with it is only a reflection of their poor self-esteem and desperation.

 

 

Any woman in that kind of relationship does not have my respect. She has my pity. The one you mentioned especially. She apparently has looks and ability to have her own life independent of support.

 

 

Something else must be wrong mentally or emotionally if she married someone that much older. I feel sorry for her.

Els Established Member

Els

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RR, I can empathize with some of your feelings, but it seems to me that you're pigeonholing an awful lot here. Not all men/women who are with older/younger men/women are doing so for the reasons you mention. Sure, some are there for the money, or have poor self-esteem, etc. But not all.

 

Personally, I view warily a man who ONLY dates 10 years or more younger - I wasn't interested in them in my early 20s and I'm still not interested now, even if I were to be single. But sometimes they don't specifically seek out certain age groups, it just happens. There is no reason why genuine love cannot happen between people of different ages.

 

It's your prerogative to not want to date such men, but the generalizations bug me.

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RedRobin Established Member

RedRobin

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RR, I can empathize with some of your feelings, but it seems to me that you're pigeonholing an awful lot here. Not all men/women who are with older/younger men/women are doing so for the reasons you mention. Sure, some are there for the money, or have poor self-esteem, etc. But not all.

 

Personally, I view warily a man who ONLY dates 10 years or more younger - I wasn't interested in them in my early 20s and I'm still not interested now, even if I were to be single. But sometimes they don't specifically seek out certain age groups, it just happens. There is no reason why genuine love cannot happen between people of different ages.

 

It's your prerogative to not want to date such men, but the generalizations bug me.

 

 

That's ok.

 

 

I'm not a big believer in things 'just happening'. People always have choices.

 

 

I don't consider what happens between people with large age gaps to be love. At least not the healthy kind. Just my opinion.

While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!
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