Question for people 35+ who have never been married

[gaius]

Possibly.

 

Bill Gates is another "odd" example, though. Did he date before Melinda? I found this cute story about their first date, and it doesn't sound like he was any ladies' man:

 

Bill Gates recalls his 'spontaneous' first date with wife

Certainly doesn't sound like he was much of a ladies man based on that story. I think he was more obsessed with other stuff like a lot of nerdy guys. Nothing I ever read hinted at him being a big ladies man. But it seems like Red would have turned him down for not being married before 35 and missed out on a 20 year marriage because of it.

 

Steve Jobs was another nerdy guy who got married late and stayed that way for 20 years until he died. Even though marriage used to be considered way more important than it is now there's still plenty of positive examples.

[FitChick]

I'm pretty sure Danny DeVito and Rhea Perlman were recently divorced.

[gaius]

They reconciled.

[mrnova66]

Because the divorced men are typically commitment minded and want to get married again.

 

Based on my own experiences, I am very skeptical when it comes to never married men over 35. I've never met one who didn't have some sort of issue that made him an unsuitable partner. (Keep in mind, I live in a smallish town where people marry early.) I wish this wasn't the case because I'd prefer someone never married.

 

If a man wants to get married, he will probably do so before 35, especially if he wants to have a family.

 

There are exceptions, so if I were you I'd make it clear that marriage was something I desired in the future. Watch his behavior. You can usually tell when a men desires commitment.

WOW!!Your post is something out of this world. You babble on about if a man wants to get married. WOW!!!You act like everyman has a chance to get married. Well you are wrong. You know there are some men never have had the chance to get married to the right woman.. Just like everybody cannot have kids. It is not a choice. It is a prevelege (SP) to have kids

[Woggle]

I do find it sort of backwards that a man who got it wrong at a young age and ended up divorced as somehow more desirable than a man waiting so he gets it right the first time. I know what I would rather have in a woman. Taking time to get it right in my book is better than not being able to honor a commitment you already made. I would rather marry a never married 35+ woman than a former walkaway wife.

[RedRobin]

Possibly.

 

Bill Gates is another "odd" example, though. Did he date before Melinda? I found this cute story about their first date, and it doesn't sound like he was any ladies' man:

 

Bill Gates recalls his 'spontaneous' first date with wife

 

 

Interesting... I imagine the 'pluck' it takes to tell the head of the company you are working at to call her when it gets closer to the date. I can see why he liked her .

 

 

My understanding of their relationship is that they had worked together on some projects, so they already had established some 'chemistry' and a working dynamic (for those of you inclined to wonder why she would go to his house so late).

 

 

Also, since he was not known as a ladies man, HIS request to see her late at night and at his house was not likely to illicit any suspicion of being taken advantage of. In this kind of situation, they both had established mutual interest LONG before the actual date happened... That is how I see things play out IRL where the stakes are somewhat high... and it was for both of them.

 

 

This is pretty much MY ideal courtship... not the going over to his house on the first date thing... but getting to know him in some other context before any romantic intentions are stated.

[RedRobin]

I do find it sort of backwards that a man who got it wrong at a young age and ended up divorced as somehow more desirable than a man waiting so he gets it right the first time. I know what I would rather have in a woman. Taking time to get it right in my book is better than not being able to honor a commitment you already made. I would rather marry a never married 35+ woman than a former walkaway wife.

 

 

Except that you really have no idea how many relationships he/she simply walked away from before.

 

 

One good thing about a divorce... It definitely brings out the best and worst in people most of the time. There is a paper trail and stories to tell.

 

 

Unlike those who haven't committed.... which is probably one reason they don't commit. A lot of them really don't like being on record.

 

 

It's a lot easier to rewrite history after the fact that way.

[xxoo]

I do find it sort of backwards that a man who got it wrong at a young age and ended up divorced as somehow more desirable than a man waiting so he gets it right the first time. I know what I would rather have in a woman. Taking time to get it right in my book is better than not being able to honor a commitment you already made. I would rather marry a never married 35+ woman than a former walkaway wife.

 

I don't see it as more or less desirable. Just more or less compatible.

 

For a woman who values marriage, it can be painful to find herself in love with a man who will never, ever marry. She needs to choose between her dreams of marriage and the man she loves. Much easier to screen out men who will never marry as fundamentally incompatible, and then choose a desirable partner from the men who are the "marrying kind".

[mrnova66]

I don't see it as more or less desirable. Just more or less compatible.

 

For a woman who values marriage, it can be painful to find herself in love with a man who will never, ever marry. She needs to choose between her dreams of marriage and the man she loves. Much easier to screen out men who will never marry as fundamentally incompatible, and then choose a desirable partner from the men who are the "marrying kind".

The "Marrying kind" Are you kidding me. Just because a person gets married does not mean they are "THE MARRYING KIND" I have a news flash for you. Just because a person gets married does not mean they are meant to get married. They can be a miserable person being married. Same goes with people having kids. It does not make them special just because they have kids. There are plenty of people out there in the world have no business with kids. Kids are being abused and neglected everyday from so calle parents. So they are no special for having kids. In fact they should have never had them in the first place

[RedRobin]

Femininity is not the same as belief/adherence to traditional gender roles, and you can't possibly characterize men who like feminine women (the vast majority) as selfish takers who expect all the giving and compromise to be one way. I just don't see how you rationalize such correlations.

 

Of course balance is good, but the problem lies in being hyper-vigilant and creating a stressful, competitive type of dynamic. I believe a good relationship should be free-flowing with lots of gratitude and acceptance, and very little accounting to make sure things are always precisely equal.

 

As others have alluded in this thread, you seem to be operating on the assumption that being more rigid and demanding is the way to get what you want. That may be effective in ensuring that you don't get what you don't want, but perhaps at a terrible cost of overall potential. I think the answer to finding love at an older age lies in becoming more open and accepting. I like to concentrate on a positive flow of energy rather than an exclusion strategy.

 

 

I have female genitalia, so by definition... I am 'feminine'...

 

 

When used in the societally constructed definition you put it into, what it usually means is 'submissive'.

 

 

Being submissive is a choice. Being feminine was how I was born... and not a choice. Defining it in the rigid way traditional men do, implies that since I'm not submissive, then I'm not a woman and then am 'inferior'... which I'm not.

 

 

I promise you that my parents and other people I know who have healthy relationships do not have a stressful, competitive type of dynamic. It's called negotiation. For 'traditional men'... they either don't like or don't know how to negotiate, so they require submission... anything else is painted as 'competitive'...

 

 

A true partnership doesn't imply competition at all. There are just jobs to be done and shared.

 

 

... and you should know that I do not ever make demands. Making demands only produces resentment.

 

 

What I do is state what I have to offer and what I expect. I listen to what he claims to offer and what his expectations are. If he agrees to this arrangement and then doesn't reciprocate fairly, or tries to use BS gender arguments to bully me out of our original agreement or to bully me into doing things his way... I pick up my toys and walk away. That is what you do when some doesn't want to negotiate or does so in bad faith.

[Imported]

Yep... I guess if I were ok marrying someone 10+ years older than me (like Melinda) , I could probably get one of those too... or someone similar.

 

 

But I won't. *shrug*

 

 

I'd rather be single than be with a man that much older than me. Don't care how much money he has.

 

 

FYI... My dad is one year older than my mom. Their 50th anniversary is next month. All of my relatives are married to people close to their own age.

 

 

I refuse to sell off what remains of my youth.

 

 

I don't think anyone is buying. You don't seem like that much fun to be around. Worse actually. You seem like a lot to put up with.

 

And FYI, my dad is 12 years older than my mom. They are @48 years of being happily married. All my relatives....not sure.

 

Not trying to convince you to marry an older guy. Who here really cares? Do what makes you happy or what you think will make you happy. But don't act like your opinion is fact.

[RedRobin]

And FYI, my dad is 12 years older than my mom. They are @48 years of being happily married. All my relatives....not sure.

 

Not trying to convince you to marry an older guy. Who here really cares? Do what makes you happy or what you think will make you happy. But don't act like your opinion is fact.

 

 

Yes, I realize a lot of men have this fantasy or expectation... that they can dawdle their lives away, then snag some much younger woman when they get around to it.

 

 

This kind of age gap was a lot more prevalent when women had a harder time making their way in the world without a husband.

 

 

... and just because you see celebrities do it, doesn't make it fact either.

 

 

But thanks for reminding me of one thing... People DO tend to emulate their parents.

[Radu]

Yes, I realize a lot of men have this fantasy or expectation... that they can dawdle their lives away, then snag some much younger woman when they get around to it.

Fantasy or not, it happens quite often.

Often enough that for us it's a reality.

 

So if it's a fantasy from your pov, maybe you are into wishful thinking la-la-land.

 

This kind of age gap was a lot more prevalent when women had a harder time making their way in the world without a husband.

 

 

... and just because you see celebrities do it, doesn't make it fact either.

I have a feeling that 99% of the globe's population believing it won't make it fact for some.

 

But thanks for reminding me of one thing... People DO tend to emulate their parents.

Most of the time it's true, though some time they tend to do a complete 180 and go against everything their parents stood for.

[Radu]

I have female genitalia, so by definition... I am 'feminine'...

So if you are born with female genitalia, you are feminine ?

I don't think you get it.

 

When used in the societally constructed definition you put it into, what it usually means is 'submissive'.

 

 

Being submissive is a choice. Being feminine was how I was born... and not a choice. Defining it in the rigid way traditional men do, implies that since I'm not submissive, then I'm not a woman and then am 'inferior'... which I'm not.

You were not born feminine, you were born female.

There's a major distinction between the two.

Being female may cause being feminine.

Being feminine is not always caused by being a female.

And many times being a female may not cause being feminine at all.

 

 

I promise you that my parents and other people I know who have healthy relationships do not have a stressful, competitive type of dynamic. It's called negotiation. For 'traditional men'... they either don't like or don't know how to negotiate, so they require submission... anything else is painted as 'competitive'...

And this is why some ppl [me included] view your opinions as misandristic.

Could it be that some women enjoy being submissive so they look for men who enjoy being dominant ?

 

 

A true partnership doesn't imply competition at all. There are just jobs to be done and shared.

 

 

... and you should know that I do not ever make demands. Making demands only produces resentment.

 

 

What I do is state what I have to offer and what I expect. I listen to what he claims to offer and what his expectations are. If he agrees to this arrangement and then doesn't reciprocate fairly, or tries to use BS gender arguments to bully me out of our original agreement or to bully me into doing things his way... I pick up my toys and walk away. That is what you do when some doesn't want to negotiate or does so in bad faith.

Sounds more like an interview.

Some romance.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Radu

[joystickd]

Yes, I realize a lot of men have this fantasy or expectation... that they can dawdle their lives away, then snag some much younger woman when they get around to it.

 

 

This kind of age gap was a lot more prevalent when women had a harder time making their way in the world without a husband.

 

 

... and just because you see celebrities do it, doesn't make it fact either.

 

 

But thanks for reminding me of one thing... People DO tend to emulate their parents.

Lol. Ageism again. The age gap only bothers the old women that can't get a man. Maybe it's because they are burned out. It happens to men too. It's better a turnout than a burnout.

[Canucklehead]

Yep... I guess if I were ok marrying someone 10+ years older than me (like Melinda) , I could probably get one of those too... or someone similar.

 

 

But I won't. *shrug*

 

 

I'd rather be single than be with a man that much older than me. Don't care how much money he has.

 

 

FYI... My dad is one year older than my mom. Their 50th anniversary is next month. All of my relatives are married to people close to their own age.

 

 

I refuse to sell off what remains of my youth.

 

 

Nice that you know what you want and plan to keep aligned with the family norms.....

 

Perhaps you will actually get what you need..... like the song says

[KathyM]

OP, I admire your standards in a man, and it sounds like you come from a very solid family, and have high standards for yourself as well. You do come across as being pretty difficult to please, though, and as others have said, too heavy on the job interview while too light on the romance. Maybe since you are a woman living in a man's world, surrounded by men in your job, you've become a bit aggressive, demanding, and hardened. A lot of men, including high quality men, would be a bit put off by that in a romantic partner. Some of the traits men admire in a woman, which separates them from the men, are their ability to be tender, vulnerable, gentle, and caring. You have a pretty tough girl thing going on, which comes across a lot in your posts. I'm just saying, while it's great that you have high standards in a man, you may be passing up some great guys when you come on so hard like you seem to. No man is perfect. And you may do well to let that tough exterior to soften sometimes. Just a suggestion. I do admire the high standards you hold a man to, and I do think quality men will try to measure up to them if they are within reason. But I do think you may be coming on too strong sometimes. Hopefully you don't mind that I gave you feedback on this.

[Canucklehead]

OP, I admire your standards in a man, and it sounds like you come from a very solid family, and have high standards for yourself as well. You do come across as being pretty difficult to please, though, and as others have said, too heavy on the job interview while too light on the romance. Maybe since you are a woman living in a man's world, surrounded by men in your job, you've become a bit aggressive, demanding, and hardened. A lot of men, including high quality men, would be a bit put off by that in a romantic partner. Some of the traits men admire in a woman, which separates them from the men, are their ability to be tender, vulnerable, gentle, and caring. You have a pretty tough girl thing going on, which comes across a lot in your posts. I'm just saying, while it's great that you have high standards in a man, you may be passing up some great guys when you come on so hard like you seem to. No man is perfect. And you may do well to let that tough exterior to soften sometimes. Just a suggestion. I do admire the high standards you hold a man to, and I do think quality men will try to measure up to them if they are within reason. But I do think you may be coming on too strong sometimes. Hopefully you don't mind that I gave you feedback on this.

 

Nicely said Kathy,

 

I used to be very rigid in my relationship philosophy too.... until my early 30's

 

At some point, I realized that I was just trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and I needed to see things differently. I began to loosen my vice-like grip on my opinions and became more accepting. All my relationships have changed for the better because i was able to shift my perspective and see that things are fluid and not so black/white

[Els]

OP, I admire your standards in a man, and it sounds like you come from a very solid family, and have high standards for yourself as well. You do come across as being pretty difficult to please, though, and as others have said, too heavy on the job interview while too light on the romance. Maybe since you are a woman living in a man's world, surrounded by men in your job, you've become a bit aggressive, demanding, and hardened. A lot of men, including high quality men, would be a bit put off by that in a romantic partner. Some of the traits men admire in a woman, which separates them from the men, are their ability to be tender, vulnerable, gentle, and caring. You have a pretty tough girl thing going on, which comes across a lot in your posts. I'm just saying, while it's great that you have high standards in a man, you may be passing up some great guys when you come on so hard like you seem to. No man is perfect. And you may do well to let that tough exterior to soften sometimes. Just a suggestion. I do admire the high standards you hold a man to, and I do think quality men will try to measure up to them if they are within reason. But I do think you may be coming on too strong sometimes. Hopefully you don't mind that I gave you feedback on this.

 

Agreed.

 

Also, FWIW, I don't think it's necessarily a gender thing - I don't think women tend to like men who treat romantic encounters like a job interview either. Nobody wants to feel like they're just something that ticks off someone's boxes.

[RedRobin]

And this is why some ppl [me included] view your opinions as misandristic.

 

Could it be that some women enjoy being submissive so they look for men who enjoy being dominant ?

 

 

 

That's fine. I don't care who is submissive or dominant. Just don't tell me that since I was born female... and therefore 'feminine', then that requires I be submissive.

 

 

If you are looking for someone who is submissive, then just say so. Seems a lot more straightforward.

 

 

Where I come from, people don't even talk in these terms. Neither is 'submissive' or 'dominant'. They have strengths and weaknesses and they balance each other out, according to their likes and dislikes... and they aren't gender based.

[salparadise]

When used in the societally constructed definition you put it into, what it usually means is 'submissive'.

 

Nope, not the same thing to me at all. I can see how you might assume that but it's not what I meant. I've known plenty of women who I considered extremely feminine, yet they were self-confident and assertive in both work and interpersonal contexts. It's in both appearance and the type of energy they transmit. I've seen them be assertive in the workplace using feminine energy--not masculine energy. Women who can do that are extremely attractive to me. They inspire harmony. They are usually able to get what they want without coming off as demanding or manipulative. Everyone is happy to be on their team.

 

I've also known feminine looking women who couldn't turn off their masculine energy. Masculine energy can be effective in the workplace, but if they can't turn it off in interpersonal relations then it just doesn't feel right. I won't be attracted even though they are physically attractive.

 

Dominant/submissive characteristics are somewhat tangental but not the same. I like a woman who can switch between the two and knows when to be which. It really feels good when she gives me cues or easily accepts mine and we take different roles depending on mood and context. This manifests both in the bedroom and outside of it, but even when she's being dominant her energy is feminine rather than masculine.

 

 

A true partnership doesn't imply competition at all. There are just jobs to be done and shared.

 

... and you should know that I do not ever make demands. Making demands only produces resentment.

 

I agree completely with this.

[RedRobin]

There is a term called 'situational leadership'...

 

 

The most effective MALE leaders I know, also are quite adept at being 'soft' and responsive when they need to.

 

 

None of this is a gender thing.

 

 

I get it that it's a lot tougher for people to be balanced than it is to grab onto some idea of masculine and feminine... since that is what we are all programmed to do by society.

 

 

But it is balance that I'm looking for...

 

 

and no, I don't do interviews. I just pay attention. If they want to use my gender and 'femininity' as an excuse for them to be emotionally lazy, then I'm not interested...

[Imported]

Yes, I realize a lot of men have this fantasy or expectation... that they can dawdle their lives away, then snag some much younger woman when they get around to it.

 

 

This kind of age gap was a lot more prevalent when women had a harder time making their way in the world without a husband.

 

 

... and just because you see celebrities do it, doesn't make it fact either.

 

 

But thanks for reminding me of one thing... People DO tend to emulate their parents.

 

Dear lord, you sure like to rationalize something from nothing. I am a lot different from my father. He didn't really date around much at all. My sisters, which of course also have the same parents....married young. My oldest sister's husband is the same age as her and my other sister married someone a year younger. One is still happily married, the other went through a horrible divorce.

 

Thanks for reminding me that a few cases doesn't prove a rule, but I didn't need reminding. You do.

 

I also don't just pay attention to examples that supports what I want to believe and ignore anything that is contrary. You seem to be very adept at that.

 

I didn't bring up any celeberties, I used my dad as example. He is a cool guy though. I don't follow the lives of celeberties. My life is enough to deal with as is.

 

There are still lots of women that are looking to just be a mom and devote themselves to that.

 

I am not looking for "young", I am looking for women I am attracted to that are also attracted to me. To me and not just what I can provide.

 

As far as getting younger women, this happens for me all the time. Not a fantasy, not just something I see on TV.

 

I think everyone should only date people they are attracted to. If it grosses you out to think about having sex with someone because they are unappealing to look at, don't date them. Young or old. Plenty of young women I would never consider because they are just unattractive. "Youth" is not an attraction. "Attractive" is.

[hotpotato]

Fantasy or not, it happens quite often.

Often enough that for us it's a reality.

 

 

It's a reality for older men who are exceptionally charismatic, rich, and/or hot. It's not the reality for the average older man.

 

As a woman who is actually pretty liberal as far as age gaps, I will say that older men (esp once they hit 50 and up) are not nearly as attractive to younger women as they think they are.

 

IMO I think men hear theories that men I guess "expire" later than woman and believe they dont expire at all. Hence, the broke and fat older men I meet who think they are god; gift to young women.

 

The Hugh Hefners and Rupert Murdochs of the world get around this by being filthy rich.

[Radu]

That's fine. I don't care who is submissive or dominant. Just don't tell me that since I was born female... and therefore 'feminine', then that requires I be submissive.

One does not imply the other, is that such a hard concept to understand ?

 

If you are looking for someone who is submissive, then just say so. Seems a lot more straightforward.

You assume too much, which again falls nicely in the general misandristic tone.

 

 

Where I come from, people don't even talk in these terms. Neither is 'submissive' or 'dominant'. They have strengths and weaknesses and they balance each other out, according to their likes and dislikes... and they aren't gender based.

I don't know where you come from.

And i will not assume.

 

You are again assuming too much; they are just words, nobody is pure submissive and pure dominant.

Most men like women who are somewhat submissive.

In fact a degree of submissiveness enters what we refer to 'femininity', and defines it.

Being submissive does not mean however that you get taken for a ride, which does seem to be a misconception.