Question for people 35+ who have never been married

[Better]

I'm in my forties but was married in the past. After my divorce, I dated a woman for about a year and a half that was in her mid-forties but had never been married and didn't have children. I wouldn't say that she was desperate to get married, but it was certainly her goal to get married soon. She also wanted children, either naturally (unlikely due to age) or through adoption.

 

What I noticed about her over time was that she had been on her own for so long that she had a hard time compromising on anything. She was so used to making all of the decisions for herself that she could come off as overbearing and inflexible when it came to me. She just hadn't had the experience of having to give and take in a relationship. Looking back, she had a long string of very short relationships and I now understand at least part of the reason why she wasn't finding a lasting boyfriend that led to marriage.

 

I wouldn't say that finding someone in her age range who had never been married would be a red flag to me, but I would definitely try to figure out what it is about them that has led them to where they are now. The "why" is the most important part in this case.

[RedRobin]

^^ Yes, I do see a lot of single people who do end up stuck in their ways and having some problems even thinking about compromising.

 

I once dated a 35+ never married guy who said he'd never leave his job at a local library. WHAT?!

A good male friend of mine just broke up with a woman with children who said she'd never move out of the duplex she shared with her parents. I mean, to her moving across town was even against her principles... well, in her case I understood it because her parents were retired and provided day care.

 

As long as people are upfront about the things they can and can't compromise on, then it's ok. But overall... I do find that as people get older they tend to want to compromise less. That IS one of the challenges.

[gaius]

Meh. I still think Annette Bening is an idiot.

 

She could have gotten a guy her own age to raise a family with... or do what Michelle Pfeifer did... start a family THEN find the guy.... if she thought she was running out of time.

 

Warren Beatty is the perfect example of an over the hill player dude who finally 'settled down'. Exactly the kind of never married guy I'd avoid like the plague.

But doesn't she have what you say you want? A commited relationship that's lasted a long time, even past the point where he could have traded her in for a younger model. I know you're not into older guys but other than that it seems exactly like what you're looking for.

 

Do you not believe you could find a guy who would find you more stimulating than every other woman before and make you the one he marries? It's almost like your gameplan is all about setting yourself up to find a guy who wants a lifetime commitment no matter what, and you being the one he grabs. Like a gallon of milk among many other gallons of milk. That you don't feel you could keep a guy's attention unless he has some zealot like dedication to commitment. Which might be smart for some women but I think you underestimate yourself Red.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I think rational and aware are men just generally realize the sacrifice as well as they get older and just not willing to throw it all away for any damsel, as they look at marriage as a whole, if they lay out a map on the table like a battlefield general it's easy to see the statistics and that the casualties are high among men (just like it's in your best interest as a woman to look at the female side of things it works the other way around) and the majority of men at the least can look left to right and see people they know personally get crushed into the typical box of what men would call "slavery" (an obvious exaggeration of course but the point reflects the feeling/attitude) or "yes" men, it seems the men who thrive the best in marriage are the men without a backbone, nearly entirely dependent on women for support, are willing to submit under the final say of the woman, or are delusional in the fact that they are in control when they're in fact under the woman's thumb because he might be starring as the lead role but the woman is directing the entire movie. As long as he reads the from the script and plays the role within the confines of his character then he'll be fine.

 

I think initially women compromise and even bend over backwards entirely to establish the relationship initially, so that's mostly to solidify it, but it's a slow methodical and clever trap where she sling-shots back in slow motion into an upright position and then starts bearing down on the man after she recognizes the commitment he is obligated to, especially with children. I do not see men maintain any freedom/independence, they can't go and come as they please, they always need to check-in, they always need an excuse, they're always being over-watched by this eye in the sky who analyzes their every move and gesture and one little thing out of line and snap, she's riding his @ss in a second for it. As long as he plays by the rules he'll be fine, but some men aren't "built" for that.

 

I've seen men pine over women, usually unavailable women and unsuccessful/limited options in the dating world kind of men in a situation where the woman wasn't even that in-love or invested in him emotionally but if they were successful and provide a better life/future for them then that women might have finally submitted because she desires family and security that this man seems too willing and eager to provide because he is reliable and consistent, and some women can't bend even knowing their true emotions or lack of, although the temptation is there and may continue to be if she doesn't find any other more ideal bachelors, she still feels she can bag a better man, she obviously feels she has an option at this point, otherwise without options she'd likely have settled.

 

For many women a man who is willing to fulfill her every need and desire, to do her bidding is an attractive situation to consider passing up, for men it's not so much, a woman is more likely to get married in that scenario than a man is...after all men pass women like that up all the time (if they have the options), but we're not just looking for a slave ourselves.

 

At any rate RR, you claim men in their 30's or 40's are just looking to settle down with a hot piece of @ss after they've played the field, then what are they doing going after you? how is this even a concern for you? you're not in your 20's anymore right? So are you referring to older men trying to do this with you? and do you think older men have the same agenda as their younger compadres?

 

I don't know how women stay so positive and assured in marriage, having examples or not seems to make no difference and their main prerogative unchanged no matter how bad it gets out there, even for women in married with men who just laze around and do nothing, care not at all, completely uninterested and dazed out in that marriage, she still insists on "saving it", so how clear is the perception from a woman of a happy marriage, when all too often even in the worst case scenario she sees the light at the end of the tunnel? it must be quite foggy to say the least, most of that appears to be idealistic and most importantly unrealistic, after akk how many women really delve into the details about marriage or even consider the risk or sacrifices? they don't for the most part because it's mostly irrelevant, like a child wants a toy many women want a marriage and that's that, there's no if and's or but's about it, doesn't matter what you say nothing can change their mind.

 

Men have more than a few reasons to be wary over marriage, the examples are there to see all around you which aren't looking too hot unless you think you live in your own little bubble world where all the rules are different and "special" just for you, after all everyone is special and unique little butterflies, that is until you end up in the same gutter....sneaking into your "man office" at night, with your hidden porn stash, logging onto LS while your wife is asleep who probably comes into every day to "clean up" while you cry about your sexless marriage or whatever else..but in her mind its not so bad, in fact everything could be just fine, and maybe even other people are holding your marriage up like a beacon of hope because they think you're so "in-love" because you've been going at it for 10 years by now.

 

I mean and after a while, who is really going to get divorced at that point? you've been out of the game so long, you might have children, you might have obligations and all the financial reasons in the world to stay married and yet you make it out to be about "love"? are you kidding me? that's why many men just take it up the butt and make the best of it. What else can they do? get up and leave? by then men are more aware and rational about those consequences as well, better be for a good reason to ignite that firestorm.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Ninjainpajamas

[thefooloftheyear]

I think rational and aware are men just generally realize the sacrifice as well as they get older and just not willing to throw it all away for any damsel, as they look at marriage as a whole, if they lay out a map on the table like a battlefield general it's easy to see the statistics and that the casualties are high among men (just like it's in your best interest as a woman to look at the female side of things it works the other way around) and the majority of men at the least can look left to right and see people they know personally get crushed into the typical box of what men would call "slavery" (an obvious exaggeration of course but the point reflects the feeling/attitude) or "yes" men, it seems the men who thrive the best in marriage are the men without a backbone, nearly entirely dependent on women for support, are willing to submit under the final say of the woman, or are delusional in the fact that they are in control when they're in fact under the woman's thumb because he might be starring as the lead role but the woman is directing the entire movie. As long as he reads the from the script and plays the role within the confines of his character then he'll be fine.

 

I think initially women compromise and even bend over backwards entirely to establish the relationship initially, so that's mostly to solidify it, but it's a slow methodical and clever trap where she sling-shots back in slow motion into an upright position and then starts bearing down on the man after she recognizes the commitment he is obligated to, especially with children. I do not see men maintain any freedom/independence, they can't go and come as they please, they always need to check-in, they always need an excuse, they're always being over-watched by this eye in the sky who analyzes their every move and gesture and one little thing out of line and snap, she's riding his @ss in a second for it. As long as he plays by the rules he'll be fine, but some men aren't "built" for that.

 

I've seen men pine over women, usually unavailable women and unsuccessful/limited options in the dating world kind of men in a situation where the woman wasn't even that in-love or invested in him emotionally but if they were successful and provide a better life/future for them then that women might have finally submitted because she desires family and security that this man seems too willing and eager to provide because he is reliable and consistent, and some women can't bend even knowing their true emotions or lack of, although the temptation is there and may continue to be if she doesn't find any other more ideal bachelors, she still feels she can bag a better man, she obviously feels she has an option at this point, otherwise without options she'd likely have settled.

 

For many women a man who is willing to fulfill her every need and desire, to do her bidding is an attractive situation to consider passing up, for men it's not so much, a woman is more likely to get married in that scenario than a man is...after all men pass women like that up all the time (if they have the options), but we're not just looking for a slave ourselves.

 

At any rate RR, you claim men in their 30's or 40's are just looking to settle down with a hot piece of @ss after they've played the field, then what are they doing going after you? how is this even a concern for you? you're not in your 20's anymore right? So are you referring to older men trying to do this with you? and do you think older men have the same agenda as their younger compadres?

 

I don't know how women stay so positive and assured in marriage, having examples or not seems to make no difference and their main prerogative unchanged no matter how bad it gets out there, even for women in married with men who just laze around and do nothing, care not at all, completely uninterested and dazed out in that marriage, she still insists on "saving it", so how clear is the perception from a woman of a happy marriage, when all too often even in the worst case scenario she sees the light at the end of the tunnel? it must be quite foggy to say the least, most of that appears to be idealistic and most importantly unrealistic, after akk how many women really delve into the details about marriage or even consider the risk or sacrifices? they don't for the most part because it's mostly irrelevant, like a child wants a toy many women want a marriage and that's that, there's no if and's or but's about it, doesn't matter what you say nothing can change their mind.

 

Men have more than a few reasons to be wary over marriage, the examples are there to see all around you which aren't looking too hot unless you think you live in your own little bubble world where all the rules are different and "special" just for you, after all everyone is special and unique little butterflies, that is until you end up in the same gutter....sneaking into your "man office" at night, with your hidden porn stash, logging onto LS while your wife is asleep who probably comes into every day to "clean up" while you cry about your sexless marriage or whatever else..but in her mind its not so bad, in fact everything could be just fine, and maybe even other people are holding your marriage up like a beacon of hope because they think you're so "in-love" because you've been going at it for 10 years by now.

 

I mean and after a while, who is really going to get divorced at that point? you've been out of the game so long, you might have children, you might have obligations and all the financial reasons in the world to stay married and yet you make it out to be about "love"? are you kidding me? that's why many men just take it up the butt and make the best of it. What else can they do? get up and leave? by then men are more aware and rational about those consequences as well, better be for a good reason to ignite that firestorm.

 

Very well said....and very insightful..

 

As much as I hate to admit it, it does seem like the only marriages that really hold up over the long run are with the "yes dear" type of men coupled with an overbearing and domineering wife...

 

TFY

[Weezy1973]

^^ Yes, I do see a lot of single people who do end up stuck in their ways and having some problems even thinking about compromising.

 

I once dated a 35+ never married guy who said he'd never leave his job at a local library. WHAT?!

A good male friend of mine just broke up with a woman with children who said she'd never move out of the duplex she shared with her parents. I mean, to her moving across town was even against her principles... well, in her case I understood it because her parents were retired and provided day care.

 

As long as people are upfront about the things they can and can't compromise on, then it's ok. But overall... I do find that as people get older they tend to want to compromise less. That IS one of the challenges.

 

And of course you, RR, come across as someone completely incapable of compromise. Couple that with your black and white worldview and your abandonment issues and it's highly likely that those good quality, marriage oriented men are staying as far away from you as possible.

 

Having been in a relationship with a woman with abandonment issues before I can tell you it's not pleasant. Never again...and I suspect many men in my age range have similar experiences...

[xxoo]

What I noticed about her over time was that she had been on her own for so long that she had a hard time compromising on anything. She was so used to making all of the decisions for herself that she could come off as overbearing and inflexible when it came to me. She just hadn't had the experience of having to give and take in a relationship. Looking back, she had a long string of very short relationships and I now understand at least part of the reason why she wasn't finding a lasting boyfriend that led to marriage.

 

Or the unwillingness to, or disinterest in, give and take led to her not choosing long term relationships. She chose singlehood. Even if she claimed to want a relationship, her actions may show a different priority. Independence and control were always her priorities.

 

it seems the men who thrive the best in marriage are the men without a backbone, nearly entirely dependent on women for support, are willing to submit under the final say of the woman, or are delusional in the fact that they are in control when they're in fact under the woman's thumb because he might be starring as the lead role but the woman is directing the entire movie. As long as he reads the from the script and plays the role within the confines of his character then he'll be fine.

 

Strong men often desire marriage and family. Having a successful marriage evidences strength, not weakness.

 

You present marriage as a competition for power and control. That's a losing approach. A successful marriage is partnership, with each partner valuing the other's happiness.

 

I'm not saying that bad marriages don't exist. They do, with crappy immature wives, crappy immature husbands, or both. But good marriages also exist. Good marriages require TWO mature partners, both with the ability to trust and support the other. Men who desire marriage, have the maturity to be a good partner, and choose a woman with similar desire and maturity are the men who thrive best in marriage.

[RedRobin]

And of course you, RR, come across as someone completely incapable of compromise. Couple that with your black and white worldview and your abandonment issues and it's highly likely that those good quality, marriage oriented men are staying as far away from you as possible.

 

Having been in a relationship with a woman with abandonment issues before I can tell you it's not pleasant. Never again...and I suspect many men in my age range have similar experiences...

 

 

Ok. Let's talk about compromise... What I observe amongst single men a certain age is that they expect the woman to make all or most of the compromises and themselves...little or none.

 

 

These same guys view compromise as weak and unmanly. I see it here everyday on LS. Ninja's post kind of illustrates that kind of thinking (see quoted post above).

 

 

It's based on outdated thinking and outdated gender roles.

 

 

... as far as my abandonment issues. I can think of two guys that I dumped prematurely. The rest fit the description above, lied to me, or held double standards about conduct. *shrug*

 

 

I know what healthy relationships look like.. and feel like I'm more clear than ever what traits to look for very early on...

Edited March 28, 2014 by RedRobin

[thefooloftheyear]

Ok. Let's talk about compromise... What I observe amongst single men a certain age is that they expect the woman to make all or most of the compromises and themselves...little or none.

 

 

These same guys view compromise as weak and unmanly. I see it here everyday on LS. Ninja's post kind of illustrates that kind of thinking (see quoted post above).

 

 

It's based on outdated thinking and outdated gender roles.

 

 

... as far as my abandonment issues. I can think of two guys that I dumped prematurely. The rest fit the description above, lied to me, or held double standards about conduct. *shrug*

 

 

I know what healthy relationships look like.. and feel like I'm more clear than ever what traits to look for very early on...

 

Please elaborate...

 

TFY

[Woggle]

I can assure people here I am not weak and I have a backbone yet I have a strong and successful marriage. My wife knows there are certain things like cheating that are complete dealbreakers and she has the same kind of dealbreakers herself. We have a true partnership. I know they are rare but it can be done.

[RedRobin]

Please elaborate...

 

TFY

 

 

Alright...

 

 

Have dated numerous men who have exhibited one or more of the following...

 

 

own their own home... as do I. They expect that, if things go well, I will move into their home and sell mine.

 

 

They expect me to learn and enjoy their hobbies, but they won't learn or tolerate mine.

 

 

They expect me to play hostess to him and his friends (along with his friend's wives), but when I invite MY friends and their H's over... he expects to disappear.

 

 

He expects his career/job take precedence... no matter what it is.... over mine. I dated one guy who refused to ever leave his job as a librarian at a local library. Ever. No compromise.

 

 

These are attitudes I flush out early on.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Strong men often desire marriage and family. Having a successful marriage evidences strength, not weakness.

 

You present marriage as a competition for power and control. That's a losing approach. A successful marriage is partnership, with each partner valuing the other's happiness.

 

I'm not saying that bad marriages don't exist. They do, with crappy immature wives, crappy immature husbands, or both. But good marriages also exist. Good marriages require TWO mature partners, both with the ability to trust and support the other. Men who desire marriage, have the maturity to be a good partner, and choose a woman with similar desire and maturity are the men who thrive best in marriage.

 

Strong men often desire marriage and family? says who? do you just make this stuff up?

 

According to my observations, plenty of married men cheat, physically/mentally/emotionally abuse their wives, have multiple wives and multiple children and those are just the major things, and you call those men strong because they desired marriage and children?

 

You learn something every day, wouldn't want to be apart of that world...if that's what strong is.

 

Furthermore I don't present marriage in any way other than the observation that it appears to reflect as whole, you wish to reflect to marriage as a whole based off the tiny fraction of marriages that actually work, and then you pitch that "ideal scenario" like a teenager pitches to his parents that they want to become a rock star because so and so did it and he was from the same town too! It's just an unrealistic and idealistic approach to a situation in which for most people...seems to be anything but what you claim.

 

And then you claim men who desire marriage have the maturity to be a good partner?.....really?

 

You know...just...forget it...forget it.

 

Happy bears eat gummy clowns that taste like oregano and salami, that is my counter-argument.

 

Alright...

 

 

Have dated numerous men who have exhibited one or more of the following...

 

 

own their own home... as do I. They expect that, if things go well, I will move into their home and sell mine.

 

 

They expect me to learn and enjoy their hobbies, but they won't learn or tolerate mine.

 

 

They expect me to play hostess to him and his friends (along with his friend's wives), but when I invite MY friends and their H's over... he expects to disappear.

 

 

He expects his career/job take precedence... no matter what it is.... over mine. I dated one guy who refused to ever leave his job as a librarian at a local library. Ever. No compromise.

 

 

These are attitudes I flush out early on.

 

I think the more you itemize these differences in which you claim single men differ from married minded men only reveals that a lot of your problems aren't really with that issue, the bigger issue just seems you can't seem to find any decent men to date period...judging from at least any post I've seen you make about a man you are dating.

 

And I think this generalization of a married minded man doesn't really resonate with men themselves because none of them know what the hell you're talking about, maybe women do, but I think men essentially see these things as qualities a man has or not...maybe to you, you feel those are exclusive to married minded men but I can't rationalize or understand how anyone but a selfish man would just expect you to pick up, sell your house and move in with him, I think those guys would be on both sides of the fence, does it make you happier that one guy versus the other offers marriage? is that simply the difference? I do think men are generally a little more selfish in that department a bit more territorial.

 

And then with expecting to learn and enjoy their hobbies and not yours, again nothing I see as a quality in which married men exclusively would adhere to, I think any man truly interested in a woman would be interested in her hobbies as well. Yes, men are proud in general and typically like to impress you with their toys or ability, that's what a lot of guys do period though, I'm not one of them personally and would be more into thinking what hobby we could start together, instead of just a separate interest.

 

When they expect you to play hostess to him and his friends, seems a bit rude as well but again for men I can understand how they'd be a bit more traditional and want to show what an amazing woman/hostess they are seeing...but is he just inviting himself over? did you even offer? do you got a really kick-@ss pool or wonderful house where he'd rather do things at your place than his? otherwise I can't see why a normal guy wouldn't want to host at his own if it was just as reasonable. Also him just merely side-stepping your mentioning of having friends over his place and him avoiding that, just means to me that the guy isn't that serious and wants to keep his own residence private.

 

Also the librarian, why did he have to quit his job or leave it anyway? Yes, a guy is tied to his career and what he does but in the event of being serious he should be as considerate as you are being in willingness to assess the best option, but again with the above, just sounds like a guy that wasn't that serious about it and didn't want to jeopardize or make any big moves in the event that things didn't work out (hell I don't know, maybe he just liked the damn job). There is a lot of mojo for a man tied to his job, it's part of men's identity/worth/value than it is for women so I can understand how men are sensitive about that, look at how often women hold that up high on the pillar in the dating world...so I do believe that in general men would ask you to do something they wouldn't in that respect.

 

That also might have to do with the men you are dating being a bit more traditional in that respect, expecting to be the "man", expecting you to be the "woman" maybe some of those men you seek for their traditional qualities are rubbing you the wrong way because they actually expect you to be traditional in the sense where they're the one mostly calling the big shots in the beginning and the woman makes a lot of those sacrifices to be with him. That's how a lot of traditional relationships from back in the day work don't they? I couldn't see Mary Tyler Moore asking Dick Van Dyke to quit his job, sell his house and move into hers, then join her in the kitchen or knitting.

 

But sometimes I think you're talking about entirely different things time to time RR, because what you often say when you spell it out seems pretty basic and just respectful, otherwise it just sounds like you're asking or demanding something grandiose, this whole "marriage quality man" just kind of makes you come off bitter and like maybe you're entitled or just complaining about men in general for not being what you want them to be, it just sounds crazy and over the top when you pitch it in that way, only to find out it's something freaking basic.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Ninjainpajamas

[xxoo]

Strong men often desire marriage and family? says who? do you just make this stuff up?

 

According to my observations, plenty of married men cheat, physically/mentally/emotionally abuse their wives, have multiple wives and multiple children and those are just the major things, and you call those men strong because they desired marriage and children?

 

You learn something every day, wouldn't want to be apart of that world...if that's what strong is.

 

Furthermore I don't present marriage in any way other than the observation that it appears to reflect as whole, you wish to reflect to marriage as a whole based off the tiny fraction of marriages that actually work, and then you pitch that "ideal scenario" like a teenager pitches to his parents that they want to become a rock star because so and so did it and he was from the same town too! It's just an unrealistic and idealistic approach to a situation in which for most people...seems to be anything but what you claim.

 

And then you claim men who desire marriage have the maturity to be a good partner?.....really?

 

You know...just...forget it...forget it.

 

Happy bears eat gummy clowns that taste like oregano and salami, that is my counter-argument.

 

I did not say that desiring marriage makes a man strong. I said that some strong men desire marriage. My point is that the men who succeed at marriage ARE strong men, not doormats. Doormats make bad spouses, no matter what gender they are. Other strong men may prefer not to marry, and that's fine.

 

I also didn't say that men who desire marriage are mature. I said that the men who make good spouses are mature men who also desire marriage. Remove either of those (maturity, or the desire to be a good spouse), and he/she will not be a good spouse.

 

Clearer?

[RedRobin]

...and I'll add that there might be some strong men out there who prefer not to marry...

 

 

I'd have a hard time trusting them though. For the same reasons I have a hard time with vague or wishy washy guys who can't commit.

 

 

... and nice essay Ninja.

 

 

Someone asked me about my possible commitment phobia or what appeared to him as a manifestation of my abandonment issues.

 

 

I spelled out the things that have made me dump those guys. Whether they claim to be marriage minded or not. So I'm glad you agree that it comes down to basic respect... because so do I.

 

 

... and anytime a guy asks ME to do something HE wouldn't do, the answer is no. That's double standard gender crap I hate. That was my point.

Edited March 29, 2014 by RedRobin

[Don't]

There is no point to generalize about those two types of men. There are so many variables in this equation.

 

 

From the perspective of divorced man:

 

He might be tired of being in a relationship with the same person, not a commitment type of person and could be the boring routines made him want to quit. Also it could be the wife who wanted out because of same reasons. She could be crazy who knows. Some men are annoying and immature, sometimes takes time for the other side to realize. You can't judge a person who got divorced for whatever the reason is. It might be more complicated than you could imagine. However there are divorced men out there, must be a avoided at any cost, which you never know. Divorced men are experienced true, but this could be good or bad.

 

From the perspective of a man who never got married:

 

Like someone else mentioned here he could be picky and haven't found the one yet, because of certain circumstances or maybe he is not ready to commit,no job, not enough money, and loving the idea of being single longer than some other men. He could have been hurt by someone and took a while for him to get back to the relationship scene. It doesn't mean that he is a loser. I think it's a choice and luck. It's not always easy to find someone that you are physically and emotionally attracted to. Those people are cautious, so maybe they won't be ending up divorced like some other people who got married at early age.

 

 

I am almost thirty, live in North America and more than 50 percent of my friends got married and engaged, but couple of them got already divorced. I have been in a few relationships, but haven't met the one I want to marry yet. I personally prefer to be broken up rather than being divorced which has a more colossal damage to your heart as well as your wallet; and furthermore divorced with kid doesn't make it any easier in some cases. My friends brother has been divorced over four years and his ex wife is crazy. He has been paying her the half of whatever he makes, trying to survive. He says he gets paid under the table sometimes so his ex wife won't be able to claim it. He loves his kid though, picks him up from day care everyday and communicates with him nicely etc..

Edited March 29, 2014 by Don't

[gaius]

Bill Gates, married for the first time at 39. Still married 20 years later.

[salparadise]

Alright...

 

Have dated numerous men who have exhibited one or more of the following...

 

I don't like strict adherence to traditional gender roles either, but I do like feminine women who can appreciate me just for who I am as opposed to what I can do for them and how I make them feel about themselves. I don't want a scorekeeper, and I especially don't want a tit for tat type of person.

 

Relationships should be about positive, selfless giving. The healthiest are where each person's pleasure is derived more from giving to and appreciation of the other. Of course, being able to receive graciously is important too.

[RedRobin]

I don't like strict adherence to traditional gender roles either, but I do like feminine women who can appreciate me just for who I am as opposed to what I can do for them and how I make them feel about themselves. I don't want a scorekeeper, and I especially don't want a tit for tat type of person.

 

Relationships should be about positive, selfless giving. The healthiest are where each person's pleasure is derived more from giving to and appreciation of the other. Of course, being able to receive graciously is important too.

 

 

 

Lots of guys definition of 'feminine' is that women give... and men take (except for money, that is).... and that women are supposed to derive their pleasure from giving... endless time and energy usually... and women are supposed to be ok with guys doing nothing but taking... our time and energy...

 

 

while men throw women cash like hired help... They aren't friends, they aren't companions. That's the women's job. It's women's job to listen to men... pump them up and stroke them... but when it's the woman's turn... well, that's what her friends are for.

 

 

That's my take on guys who believe in traditional gender roles.

 

 

As for me... I believe in balance. It's not tit for tat. I have needs. He has needs. We figure out together how we can meet each others needs...

[RedRobin]

Bill Gates, married for the first time at 39. Still married 20 years later.

 

 

Yep... I guess if I were ok marrying someone 10+ years older than me (like Melinda) , I could probably get one of those too... or someone similar.

 

 

But I won't. *shrug*

 

 

I'd rather be single than be with a man that much older than me. Don't care how much money he has.

 

 

FYI... My dad is one year older than my mom. Their 50th anniversary is next month. All of my relatives are married to people close to their own age.

 

 

I refuse to sell off what remains of my youth.

[gaius]

Danny Devito. Married age 38" currently with his wife over 30 years.

[RedRobin]

Danny Devito. Married age 38" currently with his wife over 30 years.

 

 

You finally picked a couple who were more age appropriate. Thank you. She was 34.

 

 

Here's one for the... "second and subsequent marriages more often end in divorce" folks.

 

 

Paul Newman. First marriage at age 24.

Second marriage at age 33. Married to Joanne Woodward till he died. He was 5 years older.

 

 

Note that he died before her. She is still alive.

[xxoo]

Danny Devito. Married age 38" currently with his wife over 30 years.

 

But they moved in together two weeks after meeting, in 1971. They married 12 years later, in 1983.

[salparadise]

Lots of guys definition of 'feminine' is that women give...

That's my take on guys who believe in traditional gender roles.

 

As for me... I believe in balance. It's not tit for tat. I have needs. He has needs. We figure out together how we can meet each others needs...

 

Femininity is not the same as belief/adherence to traditional gender roles, and you can't possibly characterize men who like feminine women (the vast majority) as selfish takers who expect all the giving and compromise to be one way. I just don't see how you rationalize such correlations.

 

Of course balance is good, but the problem lies in being hyper-vigilant and creating a stressful, competitive type of dynamic. I believe a good relationship should be free-flowing with lots of gratitude and acceptance, and very little accounting to make sure things are always precisely equal.

 

As others have alluded in this thread, you seem to be operating on the assumption that being more rigid and demanding is the way to get what you want. That may be effective in ensuring that you don't get what you don't want, but perhaps at a terrible cost of overall potential. I think the answer to finding love at an older age lies in becoming more open and accepting. I like to concentrate on a positive flow of energy rather than an exclusion strategy.

[gaius]

But they moved in together two weeks after meeting, in 1971. They married 12 years later, in 1983.

Only 1 out of 3 examples. And if she had gotten hit by a car or whatever before they got married he would have single, over 35 and never married.

[xxoo]

Only 1 out of 3 examples. And if she had gotten hit by a car or whatever before they got married he would have single, over 35 and never married.

 

Possibly.

 

Bill Gates is another "odd" example, though. Did he date before Melinda? I found this cute story about their first date, and it doesn't sound like he was any ladies' man:

 

Bill Gates recalls his 'spontaneous' first date with wife