Question for people 35+ who have never been married

[Weezy1973]

Interesting fact; the older people are when they get married, the more likely the marriage is to last. Also, people that have been divorced are far more likely to have subsequent marriages end in divorce.

 

In other words, at least statistically, you should be looking for 35+ year old men that have never been married and are now looking to as that would give you the greatest chance of a long term marriage.

 

Of course the fact that you're divorced might cross you off many of their lists. That is only if they have the same hyper-vigilant criteria due to abandonment issues that you do.

 

Most rational adults without these issues actually get to know people before discarding them based on statistics or whether or not the potential mate has ever been married...

[RedRobin]

Interesting fact; the older people are when they get married, the more likely the marriage is to last. Also, people that have been divorced are far more likely to have subsequent marriages end in divorce.

 

In other words, at least statistically, you should be looking for 35+ year old men that have never been married and are now looking to as that would give you the greatest chance of a long term marriage.

 

Of course the fact that you're divorced might cross you off many of their lists. That is only if they have the same hyper-vigilant criteria due to abandonment issues that you do.

 

Most rational adults without these issues actually get to know people before discarding them based on statistics or whether or not the potential mate has ever been married...

 

 

I'm going back to what XXOO said earlier...

 

 

If people either view marriage as a hindrance, a burden, or a source of control on them... or they have a mindset that they can solve their problems by moving on to someone new... THOSE are the people who are not likely good bets for marriage. The ones who also believe there is a 'perfect person' for them, and won't commit unless every single item on their checklist is met... those seem unlikely candidates for marriage either. Those are the people who likely aren't all that adaptable to the inevitable changes that occur throughout one's life.

 

 

As far as the statistics go... poverty and financial stability is a bigger indicator of marital health than age when first married. Add to that, any stresses put on couples with children or incompatibilities with extended family... In other words, if they don't have a support network around them of people who can help them weather the difficulties that any marriage faces at any age.

 

 

This trend you speak of... waiting till much later to get married... has not born out amongst my family and friends. They married relatively young and stayed married. Those make up the vast majority of people I know. Of those who were divorced... two of them remarried. Both are still married 10+ years later.

 

 

I get it that it appears I have these impossible checklists too. I get it that there is a risk that I'm discarding people based on arbitrary criteria to avoid dealing with my own issues. Yep. But when I DO dig in, and attempt to get to know most of these people.... what I see is the above.

 

 

Or, the flip side, I see a crop of men who are congratulated for running through strings of women and patted on the back for it... The Warren Beatty, George Clooney types. Those men disgust me. You have to wonder about the women who go along with it too.

 

 

There is absolutely one area where I've shoved a good portion of men aside... and that is older men. This is one area I won't budge. I'm doing my part to eliminate that bit of hangover from days past. I'm doing MY part to not give those guys any incentive to drag out their bachelorhood.... no matter how they ended up there.

 

 

If they didn't believe their 'prime' was 35+, you better believe they'd figure it out sooner. Just like lots of women are obliged to.... not that those guys care. But, there is one less woman feeding the 'demand'... or the perception of such.

Edited March 26, 2014 by RedRobin

[salparadise]

I get it that it appears I have these impossible checklists too. I get it that there is a risk that I'm discarding people based on arbitrary criteria to avoid dealing with my own issues. Yep. But when I DO dig in, and attempt to get to know most of these people.... what I see is the above.

 

RR, I'm pretty well convinced that the problem most of us have is not so much one of finding the right person as being the right person. Once we've had our heart broken a couple of times, been betrayed or severely disappointed, we naturally adopt conscious and subconscious defensive strategies to avoid an encore. What we often don't realize is that somewhere in the subconscious we decide in a vague sort of way that the higher priority is avoiding risk. We are then at odds with ourselves; we seek and avoid at the same time. We invent all kinds of ways to rationalize such that it becomes the universe's problem rather than our own.

 

Humans are predisposed to classify, generalize and judge. A huge portion of what we consider knowledge is based on doing this well. Rational personalities with advanced education are probably even more prone to it. But in matters of the heart, it takes exactly one exception out of millions who fall into various categories, so I think it's important to view every individual as unique and full of potential rather than a member of a set that we've discounted either rationally or intuitively. The more rational we become, the more we narrow our possibilities.

 

One of the concepts in transactional analysis is specificity of expectation... the narrower the range of acceptable responses the less likely we are to receive an acceptable response, therefore a person who is open to a broad range of responses will have more satisfactory interactions than one who has specific expectations. The parallel is pretty obvious I think.

 

No criticism implied as we all have our checklists; just something to think about.

[Trapp-er]

I'm in my late 30s and never been married. Earlier in life I was pursuing a dream of being a professional athlete--that required a huge time commitment and required regular travel. When it became clear that I'd topped out in my chosen sport, I went to University (at the age of 31) and then onto a become a professional. In my field, the hours required to remain in good standing are significant. And I've learned that many women are not interested in dating someone who works as much as I was working.

 

I have since made some career changes that afford me much more free time while retaining a decent salary. I recently had my most serious relationship to date end, but not because I was unwilling to commit. Indeed, I was very excited about my ex and the potential I thought we had for a lifelong partnership.

 

My point is that even though I am older and have never been married, it's because it wasn't a huge priority for me originally to be married and even though it is a large priority for me now, I'm not willing to marry the wrong person just to be married and have a family. I'd much rather be single and happy than married and miserable, which seems to be the norm more often than not.

[ponchsox]

I'm in my late 30s and never been married. Earlier in life I was pursuing a dream of being a professional athlete--that required a huge time commitment and required regular travel. When it became clear that I'd topped out in my chosen sport, I went to University (at the age of 31) and then onto a become a professional. In my field, the hours required to remain in good standing are significant. And I've learned that many women are not interested in dating someone who works as much as I was working.

 

I have since made some career changes that afford me much more free time while retaining a decent salary. I recently had my most serious relationship to date end, but not because I was unwilling to commit. Indeed, I was very excited about my ex and the potential I thought we had for a lifelong partnership.

 

My point is that even though I am older and have never been married, it's because it wasn't a huge priority for me originally to be married and even though it is a large priority for me now, I'm not willing to marry the wrong person just to be married and have a family. I'd much rather be single and happy than married and miserable, which seems to be the norm more often than not.

 

Good for you and amen to that.

[RedRobin]

I'm in my late 30s and never been married. Earlier in life I was pursuing a dream of being a professional athlete--that required a huge time commitment and required regular travel. When it became clear that I'd topped out in my chosen sport, I went to University (at the age of 31) and then onto a become a professional. In my field, the hours required to remain in good standing are significant. And I've learned that many women are not interested in dating someone who works as much as I was working.

 

I have since made some career changes that afford me much more free time while retaining a decent salary. I recently had my most serious relationship to date end, but not because I was unwilling to commit. Indeed, I was very excited about my ex and the potential I thought we had for a lifelong partnership.

 

My point is that even though I am older and have never been married, it's because it wasn't a huge priority for me originally to be married and even though it is a large priority for me now, I'm not willing to marry the wrong person just to be married and have a family. I'd much rather be single and happy than married and miserable, which seems to be the norm more often than not.

 

 

You are talking to someone who has a PhD and dated a fellow PhD student who was also an Olympic athlete.

 

 

I work in a hyper competitive field where the work hours are long.

 

 

Nearly all of my co-workers are happily married... most of them with children. Most CEOs, presidents, and others with demanding careers are as well. Most of the highly successful people I know married young and stayed married.

 

 

Any guy who gives me the reasons you mentioned isn't going to get far with me.

 

 

What *I* see are men who think they have forever to make relationships/marriage a priority... then make up for lost time on the woman's back. I'm not playing that.

[RedRobin]

RR, I'm pretty well convinced that the problem most of us have is not so much one of finding the right person as being the right person. Once we've had our heart broken a couple of times, been betrayed or severely disappointed, we naturally adopt conscious and subconscious defensive strategies to avoid an encore. What we often don't realize is that somewhere in the subconscious we decide in a vague sort of way that the higher priority is avoiding risk. We are then at odds with ourselves; we seek and avoid at the same time. We invent all kinds of ways to rationalize such that it becomes the universe's problem rather than our own.

 

Humans are predisposed to classify, generalize and judge. A huge portion of what we consider knowledge is based on doing this well. Rational personalities with advanced education are probably even more prone to it. But in matters of the heart, it takes exactly one exception out of millions who fall into various categories, so I think it's important to view every individual as unique and full of potential rather than a member of a set that we've discounted either rationally or intuitively. The more rational we become, the more we narrow our possibilities.

 

One of the concepts in transactional analysis is specificity of expectation... the narrower the range of acceptable responses the less likely we are to receive an acceptable response, therefore a person who is open to a broad range of responses will have more satisfactory interactions than one who has specific expectations. The parallel is pretty obvious I think.

 

No criticism implied as we all have our checklists; just something to think about.

 

 

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

 

 

You reminded me of another observation...

 

 

Commitmentphobes and users both have one thing in common...

 

 

They expect the other person to take most of the risks so that they don't have to.

 

 

Shared risk. It's a quality I've observed in my parent's marriage and many others. The willingness and desire to negotiate so that both people's needs are met.

 

 

I'm ok taking a risk... but I refuse to be the only one doing it.

[Woggle]

RR with all due respect your parents days are another time so we can't judge today's relationships based on their marriage.

[RedRobin]

RR with all due respect your parents days are another time so we can't judge today's relationships based on their marriage.

 

 

Ok. Explain to me why most of my family (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) are not divorced.

 

 

I mention my parent's marriage because I know their marriage from the inside... they have always been very up front with us kids about all of their struggles. They never hid anything from us.

 

 

... and they could still get divorced if they wanted to. They aren't shackled into a life of painful servitude to each other. They and other members of my family clearly have some kind of mindset... a 'secret sauce', as it were, that has shielded them from the worst of the worst.

 

 

I'm telling you what that 'secret sauce' is from my perspective. A couple of very happily married people weighed in too. Seems we agree on a few things that way.

[Woggle]

Ok. Explain to me why most of my family (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) are not divorced.

 

 

I mention my parent's marriage because I know their marriage from the inside... they have always been very up front with us kids about all of their struggles. They never hid anything from us.

 

 

... and they could still get divorced if they wanted to. They aren't shackled into a life of painful servitude to each other. They and other members of my family clearly have some kind of mindset... a 'secret sauce', as it were, that has shielded them from the worst of the worst.

 

 

I'm telling you what that 'secret sauce' is from my perspective. A couple of very happily married people weighed in too. Seems we agree on a few things that way.

 

Your family is not the norm these days.

[ponchsox]

A lot of my college buddies got married early, got fat, and became "yes" men. Sorry, ain't happening here

[InnocentMan]

No sane man of any age actually wants to get married. It takes years of social conditioning and grinding down before they finally give up on life and fall into line. Women on the other hand, are literally born in a white dress. The stats for successful marriages are awful. Half end in divorce, most of the rest end in resigned acceptance that they have a made a terrible mistake. I would imagine the actual percentage of happy marriages is very small. Probably around 10%. So about a 1/10 chance of it not ruining your life. Great odds.

 

I have no clue why anyone under 35 would even consider it. Well I do, but it makes no logical sense to me.

[Woggle]

No sane man of any age actually wants to get married. It takes years of social conditioning and grinding down before they finally give up on life and fall into line. Women on the other hand, are literally born in a white dress. The stats for successful marriages are awful. Half end in divorce, most of the rest end in resigned acceptance that they have a made a terrible mistake. I would imagine the actual percentage of happy marriages is very small. Probably around 10%. So about a 1/10 chance of it not ruining your life. Great odds.

 

I have no clue why anyone under 35 would even consider it. Well I do, but it makes no logical sense to me.

 

This I don't agree with. A sane man can very much want a happy marriage but most sane men don't want an unhappy marriage or to be divorced and be lucky to see his kids once every two weeks. Most men don't want that and I don't blame them. I think most men deep down would want what I have.

[InnocentMan]

This I don't agree with. A sane man can very much want a happy marriage but most sane men don't want an unhappy marriage or to be divorced and be lucky to see his kids once every two weeks. Most men don't want that and I don't blame them. I think most men deep down would want what I have.

 

 

I think you may be confusing a happy relationship, with a happy marriage. We all would like the former, the latter, most men barely understand what a marriage entails.

[RedRobin]

This I don't agree with. A sane man can very much want a happy marriage but most sane men don't want an unhappy marriage or to be divorced and be lucky to see his kids once every two weeks. Most men don't want that and I don't blame them. I think most men deep down would want what I have.

 

Yea, most women don't want to be married to a guy who takes her for granted, neglects her and treats her like a live in maid, nanny, and eff hole that she is supposed to 'obey'. Or routinely treats her needs with disrespect.

 

 

Unfortunately, that is a lot of men's idea of a dream woman. Life is great as long as his own needs are being met, but god forbid the woman he's with has any.

[Emilia]

Commitmentphobes and users both have one thing in common...

 

They expect the other person to take most of the risks so that they don't have to.

I think that was his point exactly.

[RedRobin]

I think that was his point exactly.

 

 

Yes, I think I understood his point.

 

 

I've opened up myself to all kinds of men since I became single again. I HAVE dated men who had gotten to a certain age and never married. Most of them don't have the ingredients that make a lifetime commitment possible... for all of the reasons I mentioned. Does that mean they never will? No. Just when I met them they had those ideas of marriage or had one excuse or another for not finding someone. Yes, I realize I'm in the same boat now. The only thing that is different is that I have proven I can be committed AND I don't have a negative opinion of marriage and commitment.

 

 

Regarding his take on transactional analysis... I have another approach called 'Design of Experiments'.

 

 

It's a method by which you do your best to identify the variables that are most likely to lead to the outcomes you want... You find the links between those most critical variables and ones that are less critical...

 

 

This allows you to do much fewer experiments... and the results of the experiments you have actually do have some bearing on the final outcome. They aren't random. It is used as a method of risk reduction and it is proven to work.

 

 

The guy who did the mathematical analysis of the OkC answers might be one example in the dating world. He ought to sell his services if you ask me... quite an accomplishment. Let people tweak the screens themselves instead of relying on the matching service.

 

 

As it is, I have a pretty good idea (NOW!) of why my parent's marriage succeeds while mine didn't. I seem to have pretty good examples of good relationships all around me. I just need to search for those ingredients in the men I date now... as few and far between as they may be... and if I only come across one of those per year that even come close to that 'recipe' so be it. Lord knows I've done my time being open to all comers... or trying to be.

[Anela]

No sane man of any age actually wants to get married. It takes years of social conditioning and grinding down before they finally give up on life and fall into line. Women on the other hand, are literally born in a white dress. The stats for successful marriages are awful. Half end in divorce, most of the rest end in resigned acceptance that they have a made a terrible mistake. I would imagine the actual percentage of happy marriages is very small. Probably around 10%. So about a 1/10 chance of it not ruining your life. Great odds.

 

I have no clue why anyone under 35 would even consider it. Well I do, but it makes no logical sense to me.

 

Oh, come on. Enough with the stereotypes, and men being forced into this slavery called marriage.

[carhill]

Yeah, unless there's been a huge uptick in women asking men to marry them, history is generally replete with men *asking* for a woman's hand in marriage and offering a symbol of his desire for that in the form of an engagement ring. Is a man socialized into that mindset? Perhaps. Still, we men have free will. No one makes us ask someone to marry us. That's on us. Are fewer asking? Apparently. I did my part.

[Anela]

Yeah, unless there's been a huge uptick in women asking men to marry them, history is generally replete with men *asking* for a woman's hand in marriage and offering a symbol of his desire for that in the form of an engagement ring. Is a man socialized into that mindset? Perhaps. Still, we men have free will. No one makes us ask someone to marry us. That's on us. Are fewer asking? Apparently. I did my part.

 

It isn't slavery, though - I know men who are actually happy being married to their wives. They love their children, and will always be there for them. I know of one man, who wanted to marry one young woman so badly, and let her know that he would be there for her, no matter what, that he put her name on the deed of his house.

 

There is no socialized mindset there. Hormones, love chemicals, an actual connection with another human being - it's usually a little thing called love.

[InnocentMan]

Oh, come on. Every rom-com ever made ends with the man on his knees begging some pain the ass, whiny woman to marry him. Rom-coms that incidentally, men are forced to watch by females. Add to that the constant asking by family/friends when they will get hitched, it's a pretty potent mix.

 

The message is out there, in music, literature, poetry, film/tv. It's a non stop barrage that men don't even see coming. Then they wake up 5 years later and realise they haven't had sex for 6 months and think wtf just happened. Only now they can't escape without losing everything they ever worked for, and probably losing meaningful contact with their children.

 

I'm not totally against marriage, but only once you've lived your life, and don't have the energy to make your own dinner.

[Anela]

Oh, come on. Every rom-com ever made ends with the man on his knees begging some pain the ass, whiny woman to marry him. Rom-coms that incidentally, men are forced to watch by females. Add to that the constant asking by family/friends when they will get hitched, it's a pretty potent mix.

 

The message is out there, in music, literature, poetry, film/tv. It's a non stop barrage that men don't even see coming. Then they wake up 5 years later and realise they haven't had sex for 6 months and think wtf just happened. Only now they can't escape without losing everything they ever worked for, and probably losing meaningful contact with their children.

 

I'm not totally against marriage, but only once you've lived your life, and don't have the energy to make your own dinner.

 

I'm referring to real life, not movies or television shows. You don't get to speak for all men. I grew up not being that interested in marriage, unless I met the right person. I didn't grow up, chomping at the bit for a wedding ring on my finger. If it happens, it will be with someone that I want to live with for the rest of my life, who has shown that they are trustworthy - and can make their own dinner when they're hungry, instead of relying on me to make it.

[carhill]

It isn't slavery, though - I know men who are actually happy being married to their wives.

 

I agree. Even when my M wasn't good, it in no way reflected anything close to be slavery, as describing it that way would insult those who actually were slaves and owned by other humans.

 

They love their children, and will always be there for them. I know of one man, who wanted to marry one young woman so badly, and let her know that he would be there for her, no matter what, that he put her name on the deed of his house.

Yes, I've seen some men like that too. Again, that free will thing.

 

There is no socialized mindset there. Hormones, love chemicals, an actual connection with another human being - it's usually a little thing called love.

 

IME, the socialization part came, at a young age, being exposed to marriage being *the* partnership between man and woman, being surrounded by married couples, family and friends both, of my parents, and being indoctrinated into being married as the 'proper' way to have a family of my own. Was that right? IDK, but it was what it was. Family, social circle and religion all supported and advocated for marriage from a very young age, essentially since memory began. Love and attraction certainly were and are an impetus but marriage was and remains the 'vehicle' for taking that impetus on the road of life.

 

I'll bet, if I went to a reunion of my private high school, nearly all of the 125 of we alumni would be married. It's been awhile but the last time I went, 20th IIRC, they certainly were. Back then, I wasn't married so was 'odd man out', which was normal for me.

 

I personally think that people should prosecute their love life in a manner which they feel is healthy for them. They can certainly love, be loved, commit and be committed to/by another person without being married. If they don't want to commit, that's fine too. Overall, if one is transparent about one's style of loving, things usually work out OK. Like minds meet and enjoy life.

 

I see signs of aspects of this topic in my age group/demographic amongst the few women who are unmarried, whether widowed or divorced, whom I meet, and amongst female friends. Their style of loving generally differs from mine so our minds don't meet. I prefer marriage as the goal of long-term interpersonal romantic relationships. They, so far, don't, if I'm to take their 'I'll never get married again' at face value. I'm good with that.

[Frank2thepoint]

So, I guess my question is... If you are 35+ and never married, then why not? Do you see yourself ever being married, or are you just philosophically against it? What would make you want to marry someone?

 

I just turned 35, single, never married, and have no children. I came close twice to being almost manipulated into it, but luckily I had my wits about me to stop it from happening. I do have a vision of getting married, but it has to be to a woman that complements me. Unfortunately I have not met such a woman yet. I'm not looking for some young chick, with perfect tits and ass, extremely beautiful, and can service me anyway I want. I'm looking for a woman that wants to share in working with me to building a relationship. It's not rocket science or something complex. Unfortunately, the string of women I've met and dated have been, to simplify it, flakes. Not dependable, not serious, lost, confused, reluctant, and lots of baggage. Kind of similar to the Argentinian woman from the video RedRobin shared in the first page of this thread (sh*t I wouldn't even date such a woman with the mess she has in her home).

 

But to be frank, I can't even think about marriage and give a definite answer of "yes I want it" because I haven't found a woman that has the endurance for such a milestone in life. Maybe, and hopefully, in a few years I can come back on here and say I'm on my way, or maybe I'll still be single. As other men have said on here, I'm not looking to settle down just for the bragging rights of being married or out of desperation. I want something long lasting with a woman that is dependable, that wants the same thing as I do. Sounds like a fairy tale, but for me its pragmatic.

[RedRobin]

I agree with you about the woman in the video... Lacks focus... Impulse driven...

 

All of the things I am trying to avoid with the men I date. It has taken me awhile to tease out the more subtle tells of men who only claim to be looking for a commitment vs those who sincerely are.

 

...and when I say commitment I mean marriage... Not the overblown, rather dramatized version of 'commitment' that lots of people these days attribute to simple monogamy.

 

To me... That's just agreeing to be one persons steady eff buddy. That's not a commitment.

 

When I hear the words 'partner in crime' that is what comes to mind. It's the anthem of every dyed in the wool permabachelor. I feel the same way about the phrase 'soul mate'. That's the overly romantized version for those who are living in fairy tale world with hearts and flowers.

 

I am neither.

 

Anyway... Just a few thoughts your post inspired....