The Last Loner Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 Hey to all - THIS IS LOOOONG - Firstoff, I apologize for the length, but sometimes I feel that leaving out even the smallest details can alter the perception of the plot and therefore change the way you guys receive it - The saga begins... I work in a corporate enviroment in a building with 8 floors. I work on floor 4. The girl, Amy, I was casually dating last spring started working at my company last summer and she works on the 5th floor. I was getting over a 4 1/2 year relationship when I met Amy. Ok, now follow me here....Amy is my sister's best friend's sister-in-law. Still with me? Amy asked my sister to set us up on a date. This girl is damn cute, but emotionally I still felt like Dracula. Dead and empty. I felt an attraction with her, but I didn't feel the chemistry I was looking for, so I refrained from getting too touchy-feely. I didn't EVEN kiss her! I figured I had my reasons and besides, why am I going to get involved with a person I don't feel a tremendous amount of sparks with knowing how close they are to my family. It's just asking for problems. I told her my reasons for us just to remain friends and she listened to what I had to say. That was last summer. We kept in touch sporadically and our short-lived romantic exploration became more of a brother-sister friendship. I would go up to visit her since she works right above me - literally! Fast forward to mid-November.. I am in her office just visiting and in comes this breathtaking brunette, "Jackie", asking Amy if she would like to accompany her to lunch. My eyes almost rolled out of my head! I felt like Kevin Arnold in "The Wonder Years"...humuhna-humuhna-humuhna!! I asked Amy who that was and she told me that's her friend Jackie that's been working there since last spring. I asked her why she never introduced me before! Now, at the end of November, I go up to visit Amy and there sitting with her is, you guessed it - Jackie. I asked them to come join me for breakfast and they agreed. Once we got downstairs, I tried to find out more about this Jackie girl. She seemed friendly, but a bit aloof as well. It wasn't like pulling teeth, but she didn't seem like the most bubbly, open woman I've ever met. A week later I go see Amy again and she told me to pop in and see Jackie cuz she's right across the hall. When I did, Jackie was very friendly and seemed as if she was letting her guards down a bit. [i get complimented on my looks and body quite often and consider myself an extremely confident and realistic person.] Suddenly as we were talking, I had an epiphany. So it wouldn't seem so forward of me, I told Jackie that since the year was winding down, I wanted to take a few friends out to dinner in the city (Seattle of course). She said,"Sure, I'd love to." And it was set. Now, the first week of December, I had made the plans for a Tuesday night. The day before I am online and Amy IM's me to tell me Jackie can't make it. I asked her,"How come?". She answers with,"she has a date". Immediately, I felt like an arrow just went through me. Which is quite amazing considering I have felt emotionless for almost a year and a half. The next day I went to visit her and she told me that Amy told her I was upset. How did Amy know that??? All I said on the IM was,"No problem, we'll do it another time". Jackie then shows me a pic of her friend (female) and says,"My friend and I are going to hang out with these two guys...sorry I can't make it, this night was planned a while back." The following Monday, I saw Amy online and told her I was headed for the gym. She asked to join me and off we were! We had a goodtime working out together and I noticed her slightly flirting with me. I made it a point NEVER to bring up Jackie around Amy. The main reason is I didn't want my feelings being broadcasted from one girl to another. Just out of the blue - Amy tells me that Jackie is seeing this guy and he is in his late-thirties. Jackie is 23. Finally, the night of the dinner rolls around and I decide to take my sister, her best friend, Amy and Jackie. The whole day I was running around doing errands and I even dropped a nice bottle of champagne off at the restaurant. Amy called me giving me drama about what time this girl gets out of work, etc. I was to the point where I said,"You know what Amy, we should just cancel the whole thing". (I was figuring what's the use, the girl I like could care less that I even exist) then Amy quickly replies,"Noooo, don't cancel, Jackie REALLY wants to go!". I thought,"Hmmm, that's funny". I finally just told them to be ready and at my house at 7:30pm. As I was in the shower, I'm thinking,"You know, why exert all my energy on a girl that doesn't seem that into me and obviously is dating someone else. I should not even pay any attention to her at the dinner and focus on Amy." I was looking all good, smelling all good and dressed to kill. The girls got to my house and I started up my car. I figured either Amy or my sister would jump in the front seat. As I looked to my right, it was not Amy, not my sister Liz and not my sister's best friend Natalie - it was Jackie! It was like a different person!! She looked me over with these eyes and said,'You look amazing!" I was stunned. I said,"You clean up pretty well yourself." We were headed to the restaurant "Mistral" in Belltown, Seattle and she was teasing and flirting with me the whole way. We get to the restaurant and she makes every attempt in a non-clingy way to be close to me. She sits alongside the table and I'm at the end of it so naturally our knees were grazing each other. She says,"You don't mind my knee hitting yours, do you?" My retort was,"No....that's the most action I got all year!" She laughs hysterically, THEN puts her hand under the table and grabs my knee rubbing my thigh above the knee. We had a wonderful time and of course I was in heaven, because this girl seemed like a different person outside of work. She made some complementative comments to me throughout the dinner and made many references to me having hoards of women chasing me. When my sister's best friend asked Jackie if she had a boyfriend, they both made some humorous comments and she replied with,"No..I don't have a boyfriend." Since my original plan was to pay attention to Amy and not Jackie, when I finally realized how long I was flirting with Jackie, I totally forgot about Amy! She looked a bit disappointed and discontent, but assured me she was having a great time. The girls and I leave the restaurant and we go to take Jackie home. When I let her out she gives me this great big LONG hug and looks in my eyes with this "I want you to be the father of my children" gaze and says,"I'll see you tomorrow" very slowly and sensually. I went home that night and had some tea with my sis. She told me that Jackie practically dashed to be in the front seat and the prior weekend Amy took Jackie to the place where my sister works and introduced her. My sister said she got the same vibe from Jackie, that she's very aloof and not very animated when you first meet her. That is...up until the point where Amy tells Jackie that I am her brother. It was then that Jackie face lit up, she smiled and was very receptive to my sister. Every girl in that car thought Jackie was on my like "white-on-rice". I tried to play it smooth, so I didn't visit Jackie for a few days after the dinner. I said in my mind not to get my hopes up or count my chickens, because people have a tendency of being very flighty, fickle or capricious. I thought I would go to see her and she would be back to the same poker-faced beauty that I first met. I was wrong! She was even MORE smitten with me and I couldn't believe it. I took out a book of photos with my 5 nieces and said to her,"You wanna see my women?" She said,"Noooo" very softly in a tone that meant "It's gonna hurt me too much to see them." I showed them to her anyway and she got my joke. She thought they were the most precious lil' things. We had a lovely conversation and the way we were looking at each other with such intensity, there was no way this was an act. Her pupils were fully dilated and the chemistry was so unreal, it was like I was remembering what once felt like to fall in love. I said we should do something, just her and I. She didn't even hesitate to type her number in my phone. Before I left she says,'You're not going to wait 3 weeks to call me, are you?" I said,"Of course not.....I can't tell you when exactly, but you'll be hearing from me." This was just days before Christmas. On Christmas morning about 2am, I decided to hand deliver a Christmas card to her house. It was more thoughtful then sending in the mail and she would receive it on Christmas Day. As I put it in her door, I thought I was homefree, but as I left her development, my phone rang. "Sam...where are you?" We talked and laughed for a bit and she was asking me to come back to her place to see her. I told her I had to get home (besides, I looked like trash at 2am with my sweats on) She told me to call her during the week and we can get together. I did just that. Monday rolls around and she answers her phone and tells me she might have to go away for New Years. I told her to get back to me and two days later she was prompt with responding. She sent a text msg saying she was in California seeing a relative. You guys might think I am horrible, but had a source check for me if there was a person by her full name that went to California in the last few days, since I used to work for Air Traffic Control and he told me there was 3 people with her last name that went to California and it checked out to be Jackie, her sister and her mom. I don't usually make untrusting snoop attempts, but I figured how often do people have the connections to find out how trustworthy someone is in the beginning. Hey, I'm not sorry - it's why jobs give a background check...ha! The following week came and I called her once, waited a few days, texted her, and still no response. I went to see her on a Friday and she yanked me towards her and gave her this passionate hug and kiss (on the side of the lips) and flirted with me some more. Now obviously, I know already she is seeing someone. She ALWAYS goes out of her way to NOT bring up a guy. What she does however is think that I am this womanizer because she can't see how a guy like me can be happy with one girl if I get all this attention. She doesn't know I grew up chubby and awkward looking and am not used to this attention. So.....I see her a week later and she still continues with the flirtiness, the touching and toffee/goo-goo eyes. She tells me that I'm a stranger!?!? I guess meaning I don't pursue her enough or something. Hello? She never returns my calls, RARELY returns or sends me a text, but HONESTLY can't keep her hands off of me when I'm around her. I thought I left something at her desk when I went to visit, so I went back up and saw this guy (hair a bit receded, mid-thirties, average height, average looks) sitting in her chair all comfortable talking to her. (She was on the other side of the desk and didn't see me) Earlier that day she said that she will be free next friday and that we can get together. I text her on Monday, but no reply. She comes to the cafeteria the next day with the SAME dude. This must be the guy that Amy was taking about. She sees me in her peripheral vision and looked stiff, with her back towards me, hoping I wouldn't see. So to sum it all up.... Sam casually dates Amy Sam and Amy decide to stay friends Sam meets Amy's friend "Jackie" many months later Sam thinks she can care less about him Amy tells Sam early on that Jackie is seeing someone Jackie comes out to dinner and seems animalistically attracted to Sam Jackie STILL acts flirty, touchy and makes EVERY attempt not to mention the mystery man that Sam "secretly" knows about Jackie gives Sam her number Jackie doesn't call or return calls Jackie and average guy have lunch and Jackie notices Sam and freeze up So where it concludes (for now) is I call her early in the week to get a vibe about our Friday date. I call Jackie at her desk and she answers very moody as if she was laying the groundwork for trying to cancel our date. She says she had a bad weekend and I told her I'll let her go....she says,"Call me later" Well folks....I never called her back. I decided right then and there to pull back 100% and walk off into the sunset. 4 days later she returns to the Cafeteria with this guy and seems as if she keeps turning around to see if I notice her, but I don't give her the time of day...she goes ALL the way around the tables to either a.) avoid me or b.) hope that I won't notice her or c.) hope that I will notice her... Now is this girl just playing games, is she dangling the carrot in front of my head, is she keeping me at arms length in case is doesn't work out with this guy or WHAT?!?!?!? Would a girl be all over and touch a guy like that if she really wasn't interested in him? Did I do the right thing by backing off??? Input....Input...Input.... Thanx!
mt_joy Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 That sounds so strange. She obviously likes you. But not returning phone calls and seeing someone else (maybe) are not good signs. I would at least be a man and tell her why you are not calling or coming around anymore. Be strong and don't let her sway you. Even if she gets all teary or all touchy-feely, let it go. Find out what is going on with her and then make a decision. Don't play her games. Joy
Author The Last Loner Posted January 28, 2005 Author Posted January 28, 2005 Thanks Joy- I have such strange luck sometimes....I can have 100 girls chasing me at once and all I want is one that I have an undeniable chemistry with and it seems like it's too much to ask. I get into relationships based on initial chemistry and if my intuition tells me from the first few minutes of meeting them if I can see myself with them. Unfortunately, this only happens to me once every few years, and the odds have been against me because of timing. (i.e. At least one of us were taken) Anyone else with input, comments.....I am all 'eyes'!
Curt Posted January 28, 2005 Moderators Posted January 28, 2005 Fact is, when I read your story, it sorta sounded like what happened to me with a gal. All I'm left to conclude is that, as you have indicated in the following comment... Now is this girl just playing games, is she dangling the carrot in front of my head, is she keeping me at arms length in case is doesn't work out with this guy or WHAT?!?!?!? Would a girl be all over and touch a guy like that if she really wasn't interested in him? Did I do the right thing by backing off???... Yes! She is playing games OR, what is happening could more accurately be explained as follows: She is very indecisive as to whom she wants to be with, and is using yourself (or him or both of you) as stop-gap measures to ensure she has someone. Long story short, it appears that you're being strung along. Do just what you have been doing. Move on. Have no more contact with her. I did it too. I will not be some chew toy in a woman's multiple relationships game. Needless to say, be prepared for a bit of possible "blowback" from one of the other gals in the mix. The girls will be talking about Jackie and yourself at some point. Deal with it. DO NOT pander to Jackie's ego. Recognize that this kind of thing happens. When she realizes her game has been matched, and it is essentially screwed, she'll try her damnest to get your attention. Hey, do you need that grief? No. Move on. Also, remember, BLOWBACK can come from her too. Listen to this: I was in a local coffee shop last night with two friends, and the gal that was showing me interest was there with her friend too. Her BF was nowhere to be seen again, but I digress... I wouldn't even so much as give her the time of day, and just talked to my other friends. For yourself: DO NOT GIVE HER THE ATTENTION! It's selfish of her to expect you to just "feed her emotional need," and not be thoughtful of what YOU feel like as a result. You would only cheapen yourself. In the end, you deserve a woman that cares for you as much as you care for her. A woman that could never string you along, for fear of hurting you. Find a new date my friend. ANNNND.... That's all I have to say about that.
Author The Last Loner Posted January 28, 2005 Author Posted January 28, 2005 Curt, my man... That's gotta be some of the wisest and perceptive comments I've ever received. I feel in my gut that I have to do what you said and drop her like pancake batter. It's bad enough when you meet a girl you are overly smitten with and the affection is unrequited, but what's even WORSE, is when someone comes along with ALL the looks, wit, charm, chemistry and sense of humor that you've been waiting for AND to top it off, they're crazy about you as well!! But it just seems that the cards never seem to fall your (our) way. It feels like so much more of a waste when that happens... This is great stuff guys, Thanks... All are welcome to comment...
Fritz Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 I'd definately move on. She's playing games and its not worth your time.
iceisles Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 It seems like you're just a puppet on a very long string here. Grab some scissors and cut yourself free. Send a message that you won't play that game.
Lolita Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 I'm sorry to hear about all the drama. The first thing that comes to mind when I read your story is that this girl is probably quite intimidated of you. You are very obviously quite the alpha-male, and look, she's only 23. This doesn't mean that she's immature, more likely, she's afraid of getting hurt 'cause probably she's used to getting hit on by good looking older men, and perhaps ditched pretty quick when they get bored. So you've probably got this negative vibe of mistrust running between you. Meanwhile, she's finding security in an older man whom she knows is reliable. She's probably learning a lot from him about life and maturity, and she appreciates him for it. Perhaps deep down she knows it can't last forever, but meanwhile it is more comfortable than the unknown. She's probably feeling as confused as you are right now, if not more so. I don't think she's playing with you, I think she's decided to back off. That's always painful. I'm suspecting that if you really feel strongly about her, then leave her space for awhile. Later on, ask her for coffee every now and then, and just be her friend. I think she'd appreciate it.
iceisles Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 Originally posted by Lolita I'm suspecting that if you really feel strongly about her, then leave her space for awhile. Later on, ask her for coffee every now and then, and just be her friend. I think she'd appreciate it. This can't hurt. Sometimes people just need a little breathing room.
Stylin22 Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 One question...This girl is flirting with you and obviously letting it be know that she is into you, or at least having you think that. So, if she broke it off with this guy and you started dating or whatever, would you be okay with her doing that to you? The flirting and making other guys think she is interested...
Author The Last Loner Posted January 29, 2005 Author Posted January 29, 2005 Thanks guys for the great comments! I have quite an interesting update. In my department I work with these three drop dead gorgeous [and when I mean drop dead] women. One is a blonde haired, blue-eyed girl from the south, another is a very exotic looking blonde from Denmark and the last one is a Catherine-Zeta Jones clone from Spain. These girls are my co-workers, and over the past 3 years have become like my sisters. We work in separate areas but visit each other from time to time. When people in the lunch hall see me with these women they think I have this "Jedi-Don Juan" mindpower. They are mesmerized by these women. What is quite funny is that Jackie has been coming down to the area where I have lunch for the past week or two, bringing her "older friend" along. It is like she wants me to see her with him or something. I was talking with my 3 hot friends and it occurred to me (as immature as it sounds - I'm still in my 20's as well and instinctively needed to even the score) so I told my 3 hot friends to join me for lunch on Friday. They agreed, but when lunch time came, there was no sign of 'em. What had happened was they got stuck at another site doing a presentation... So to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the story; my plan was to very subtlety let Jackie see me with my female friends to see what her body language or initial reaction would be like. If her body didn't change a bit or no expression on her face, I would either consider her to be a wonderful actress or that would be my test to know if she was ever really that interested. About halfway into lunch (before I knew my 3 hot friends weren't going to make it that day) I told my co-worker Mike to look on the line and tell me if he sees my 3 hot female friends. After a few minutes he goes,"Oh, who is that....uh oh...I think that's your Jackie friend. I'm thinking to myself "What a plan, it's all bust now!" So as I'm looking at Mike I feel a tap on my shoulder. It was Amy! Jackie was right behind her and when I said hi to both of 'em, it seems as if Jackie was back to her aloof self. My friend Mike was leaving and I asked them if they wanted to sit with me...Jackie said she didn't want any people to hear what she had to say, so she wanted to sit in the back corner and Amy was all into telling me,"Hey Sam, you can come sit with us." It looked like Jackie didn't really want that because of what she had to talk to Amy about. While I sat with them for about 10 minutes, it was a bit awkward with me and Jackie, but not with me and Amy. Amy was all innocent and she looks at me and says,"Oh, we're talking about guys". I said to myself in my head,"Ahhh, no wonder why Jackie isn't saying anything". Even at this point, Jackie will not bring up other guys around me. So of course there were many silences and Jackie was only giving eye contact to Amy. Jackie only looked at me occasionally. I might not've mentioned in my first post that about a week and a half ago, I asked Jackie out and she said,"yes", but when I would call her cell, she wouldn't answer and when I called her at her desk a few days later, she said she had a bad weekend and acted a bit moody. That's when she said to call her later and I never did. It was at that point where I figured she was laying the groundwork to cancel the date. That's when I decided to refrain from ever contacting her again. It is pretty humorous that I had planned to have lunch with my 3 supermodel-looking friends and wound up having it with Amy and Jackie instead. After all those times of her grabbing and hugging me, her pupils dilating as she was looking in my eyes...now she was almost pretending I wasn't even at the table. Pretty typical situation? Is this the "blowback" that Curt had mentioned in his previous post? Is she now intimidated or feeling guilty that she is avoiding the date? Does she think I'm mad at her? What do you guys think???
Stylin22 Posted January 29, 2005 Posted January 29, 2005 Dude, seriously, she has a man she is interested in...why don't you just move it along and stay out of her games here...Starting to sound like junior high school type stuff, no offense intended. Once you try the one upping each other stuff, it's all preschool...
Curt Posted January 29, 2005 Moderators Posted January 29, 2005 Originally posted by Stylin22 Dude, seriously, she has a man she is interested in...why don't you just move it along and stay out of her games here...Starting to sound like junior high school type stuff, no offense intended. Once you try the one upping each other stuff, it's all preschool... Thanks Stylin', well put! Oh, and on your question, where you said ...Pretty typical situation? Is this the "blowback" that Curt had mentioned in his previous post? Is she now intimidated or feeling guilty that she is avoiding the date? Does she think I'm mad at her? Yes, it is typical of the game, and of course, this is likely part of the blowback. Hey, I had some too ... just last night in fact ... but there it goes. Think your situation through carefully, Loner. Consider what's been happening between Jackie, Amy, yourself, etc. See if you can't see what I'm saying here... The attention at lunch was all part of the "keep him wondering, and therefore, giving us ATTENTION" game. In some part of my brain, I wonder if Jackie wanted to see your reaction to her being there with Amy. Else, why would she even come to the table, where you were? Think of the comment she made...Jackie said she didn't want any people to hear what she had to say..."Hmm...Now, I wonder why that is? Perhaps, given her quietness at lunch afterwards, the stuff she had to say might have been about ... oh ... hmm ... I dunno ... Maybe .... YOU? I'm sorry ... according to what was said at the table when you three sat down, it was just about "guys" in general. (Loner, you know I'm being facetious here, but seriously, do ya get what I'm pointing to here ?) I know you wanted to have the company of two attractive young women, one of which is a really close friend of yours. To be honest, however, IMHO, if you were there eating, even alone waiting at your own table, you should have stayed there, alone, waiting, and not gone on to participate in the game. It only pandered to their egos, and gave them emotional stimulation from you that they clearly enjoy. Incidentally, it also keeps you on the string. Do you want to be there? My friend, it is all part of the game. Jackie is wanting the attention from you, but at the same time, is either not wanting anything more than that, or, is not willing to give up the other guy to form a real relationship with a guy {you}, who by your own words, she is attracted to. Either way, the end result is the same. It is a game that tears you up, strings you along, and plays fast and loose with your heart. Drop her like a hot potato! As iceisles notes above,Sometimes people just need a little breathing room.Time will tell if she's willing to reciprocate feelings with you on a meaningful, honest, adult level. She will make it abundantly clear if she is. Don't settle for anything less than forthright reciprocated affection, devoid of having another (or many other) guys in her close company, at the same time. At best, she's confused about what she wants. Leave the junior high games, to the junior high mentalities. Move on! I shall follow my own advice, attempting to do the same. Please, forget the games. You're above that. Find a woman who is also beautiful in the way she interacts with you as a mature woman. Curt
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