Still hearing 'I don't know'

[i am gutted]

He could get away with it because I was a stupid moron who let everyone walk all over me. For years.

 

Sometimes the self hatred really comes on strong and today is one of those days.

 

the problem I have now is how to be strong instead of bitter and a mean old bitch while I try to get some pride back.

 

same! mirror image of me right there.

[waterwoman]

same! mirror image of me right there.

 

 

Me too!

 

I thought it was good to be the generous giving sort who doesn't think of themselves. I thought it was good to trust him implicitly, to not make a fuss when he went out all the time, to joke about his 'harem' in work (my words for all the young women he worked with), to give of myself all the time, to have nothing left for me. I thought that was a good thing. I learned it wasn't for several reasons:

 

1. I wasn't giving him when he wanted even when I tried to be a good wife.

2. He wanted to put first even before his own children

3. It wore me down and made me less appealling as a partner.

 

Of course if he had once clearly told me i was wasting my time and energy and that he still wasn't happy in spite of all my efforts maybe we could have fixed things before the crash. It was as if I was desperately working CPR on a dying patient while all along the patient was bleeding to death from a severed artery in his leg. And the only person who could have told me this was H - who didn't because he probably didn't know how to tell me. Hey ho. Live and learn.

[confusedandhurt2002]

Do you know how much I love the "save a ho" reference? Because, guess what...that IS EXACTLY what happened here and I've felt that from sometime in the beginning. She was always coming to him to rescue her. She did the same thing when they dated years ago. She ran around on him would get her heart stomped and come back to him. This time around she needed money and he'd gotten money from his grandfather's estate and he could support her and her kids. He was like the damn knight in shining armor. I've always been independent. I don't need some man to ride in and save me. I worked for my own money and had a good savings when we got married. he and I drained it but I still worked and never relied on him to support me until a couple years ago when I decided to stay home with our son. But still, I did not NEED him and he knew it. I think it pissed him off. I needed him in other ways but for him it was the need to support her financially. He bought her TVs, phones, jewelry, CDs, furniture, airplane tickets, stays at spas, hotel rooms, you name it he bought it for her ass. We are $5,000 down in our savings because of her and last week we were scrapping for food so I didn't have to dip into that money. Do you know how pissed that made me?

 

IT also pisses me off that I am married to a weak ass man. A man who is so weak that a woman says "I need help! Boo-hoo!" and he drops everything to support her. That is so pathetic. He never progressed pass his 20s and she did the same thing to him now that she did back then. he fell for it all over again. I have never used him, I have never asked him to buy me things or sacrifice anything for me. Yet, that's apparently what he'd rather have. He doesn't want a strong woman, he wants a weak one he can wait on and who can walk all over him and treat him like **** when he does all she asks.

WTF? Who can compete with that ****? And who would want to....it has me asking myself a lot what the hell am I still doing here....if that's what he wants he isn't getting it from me.

 

 

Still, these are initial thoughts and I know he is working on himself. I just have to ask if I am patient enough to wait for him to do that and since I see a glimmer of hope and of the real him in there, I think I am.

 

But damn...really? How the hell did I marry such a sad, pathetic man?

 

At least that's what I feel at the moment, but I know no one and no man is perfect and we ALL have faults, me included!

 

ConfusedandHurt2002:

I know it sucks to be in your shoes and I am really sorry that you are going through this. As to "why" he would do this, well there are all kinds of different possibilities for this. Truthfully he may have a few different reasons, or he may not actually know fully himself. Another thing you have to consider is that even if he is telling the truth would you believe it? I know myself I would have a hard time believing anything a WS says to me.

 

I know as a man myself that being single their are all kinds of reason to try out a ride with another woman. It can be an ego thing for one, for men increasing the number of women that you have been with is often an ego boost. It can be looks (sorry if this is painful), if she is attractive then having that fantasy sex is tempting. It could be jealousy, often times men are jealous because the wife can have multiple "O"'s were he can't. Curiosity can do it also, he may have just wanted to see what it was like to be with her.

 

Now mind you that in no way do I say these are good reasons or an excuse to do what he did. He should be nothing short of grateful that you have chosen to stay with him. You are suffering a lot over a small amount of pleasure that he was able to get. Since laws are based on one persons rights ending were another persons nose begins, then you have been punched squarely in the nose by your WH (figuratively speaking). However I will let you in on something that you may or may not know. Truth is that the OW felt no better in bed comparatively. I've been lucky enough to date some really good looking women and I can tell you. They feel no different from any other woman. So if your WH was thinking it was going to be better, he had a big let down.

 

Now I kind of went over the sex thing because that is what most men will cheat for. However on the romantic side of things, he may have built up a false image of her. This can be cause by him thinking he is saving her from something. You may want to look up the phrase "save a ho" some men get attracted to the idea of saving a woman. Bottom line is that as he has learned more and more about her, the image changes. She is no longer that damsel in distress, but just a mistake.

 

There are many reason as to the question of "why?", and probably just one reason is not all of it. However the answer to this will never be enough to be okay with it. The problem any of us BS has is that we have had our self-esteem and pride damaged beyond all comprehension. We have been betrayed by the one person we trusted the most. Realizing that we have a totally different perspective of our WS is shocking. Make sure and take care of yourself. Get plenty of rest, eat healthy, indulge in simple pleasures in life. Establish actions that you need from your WH in order to feel secure. You may be feeling low about yourself, however you need to know that you should be treated good. I hope this helps you out and you recover no matter what you end up doing.

[fellini]

Because you think of control in a completely militaristic way.

 

People make decisions based on much more than just personal issues, I have read GLASS and about a dozen others.

 

We control people to the extent that our actions, our behaviours, and what we say and believe forms part (and in a marriage, we could say, a bigger part) of what others filter when making "their own decisions".

 

To think that all of us on this planet operate out of some ideal "I control me and only me" makes no sense. To say that does not mean we are not responsible for our decisions. But anyone with a thinking mind will know that if I have a partner who is beginning to cross boundaries, consciously or not (yes, Glass also mentions it can be very unconscious) that if I am aware of this I can use my influence to CHANGE (and what is change if not a form of control?) their behaviour before its too late?

 

Absolute control over someone? I don't see the point in having a discussion in which the definition of "control" is so extreme, and frankly goes against all personal and relational experience.

 

Yeah.

 

I disagree. Probably because marital issues don't cause affairs. Personal issues do. Read up on Glass, Gottman, Fisher and Pittman for further information.

 

In the end, and even in your scenario, we do not control other people. They make decisions based on their reactions to the world, healthy or not.

 

Frankly? Your line that we control other people? Is frightening and unhealthy in itself. You may want to examine why you have that worldview.

[Ap22]

Us BS spouses are in constant search for the answer to the question "Why?".

 

Sadly, what we dont realize is the answer wont matter. It wont satisfy whatever it is you're looking for. We think the answer to the question will allow us to make sense of the situation or find some clarity, but it wont.

 

No matter what a WS says or doesnt say when asked that question is irrelevant. The answer is that they thought of no one else but themselves. They were weak and risked it all to satisfy their desires.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Us BS spouses are in constant search for the answer to the question "Why?".

 

Sadly, what we dont realize is the answer wont matter. It wont satisfy whatever it is you're looking for. We think the answer to the question will allow us to make sense of the situation or find some clarity, but it wont.

 

No matter what a WS says or doesnt say when asked that question is irrelevant. The answer is that they thought of no one else but themselves. They were weak and risked it all to satisfy their desires.

 

And this is the most difficult thing. My husband kept asking why. I couldn't give him a reason. I always answered (and knew) it was about me - never about him - but that answer didn't help. Now a few years down the road it all had to do with my abandonment and insecurity issues and even though I was deeply religious (at the time - no more) I let my boundaries become soft - I allowed a good friendship to cross the lines because I didn't have the strength to walk away and admit to myself what was happening. I thought I could handle it - I couldn't. Neither could my xmom.

 

But even though that revelation is there it doesn't help the pain for the bs. It is hard for them to let go and realize it never had anything to do with them.

 

So so sad.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Because you think of control in a completely militaristic way.

 

People make decisions based on much more than just personal issues, I have read GLASS and about a dozen others.

 

We control people to the extent that our actions, our behaviours, and what we say and believe forms part (and in a marriage, we could say, a bigger part) of what others filter when making "their own decisions".

 

To think that all of us on this planet operate out of some ideal "I control me and only me" makes no sense. To say that does not mean we are not responsible for our decisions. But anyone with a thinking mind will know that if I have a partner who is beginning to cross boundaries, consciously or not (yes, Glass also mentions it can be very unconscious) that if I am aware of this I can use my influence to CHANGE (and what is change if not a form of control?) their behaviour before its too late?

 

Absolute control over someone? I don't see the point in having a discussion in which the definition of "control" is so extreme, and frankly goes against all personal and relational experience.

 

And I agree with you here as well. In the end we do not control anyone. People can only be controlled for so long. I look at both my xmom and my husband (my husband had an affair too although I kept his quiet). They are much alike. Very much about reputation. Not to say that family doesn't mean something - it does and I do believe my husband loves me. However, he also cared about his xmow (even though he says otherwise) - I know he did (does) because of the kind of man he is. But because of his reputation, his status in the community, his parents who are aging, his kids, (finances - he knows I would get half) etc., he would not make a decision to leave. My xmom was the same way. My husband, although i do believe he loves me, would not make that leap. I look at my husband sometimes and wonder - it really is sad - affairs really suck.

[confusedandhurt2002]

Just realized...my husband may have White Knight Syndrome (Captain Save a Hoe) but I think I have a Savior Complex. I think I have to save everyone and now that I feel I failed at saving him from himself I feel like a failure. Well, darn it all to hell, this will be something to bring up to my counselor and work on. I just wanted to tell him he's screwed up and not me too. Hahaha (joke, joke!...the wink icon won't work for me today)

[Furious]

99.9% of the betrayed spouses willnot and cannot be satisfied with the genuine answer.For to do so would mean that they would need to bear some responsibility for the part they played in the health of the marriage or lack there of.

 

This line of reasoning is absurd. No marriage is perfect...smooth sailing at all times.

 

To have this viewpoint would suggest that every single married person at one time or another had cause to cheat and point part of the responsibility unto the spouse whom is in the very same marriage but didn't cheat.

 

If a spouse chose to gamble, become an alcoholic, cheated on taxes, etc...., would a wife or husband share in the responsibility of those actions? Why is cheating not seen in the same light?

 

 

Ironically, a great majority of betrayed spouses agonize over what they could have or not done to have prevented being cheated on. The truth is, no one owns someone's free will to chose to lie and cheat if lying and cheating is what they want to do.

 

The "why" is not about blaming other's for your choices, the "why" comes from truly owning ones own actions.

[waterwoman]

To have this viewpoint would suggest that every single married person at one time or another had cause to cheat and point part of the responsibility unto the spouse whom is in the very same marriage but didn't cheat.

 

I have had cause to be unhappy with my marriage at times. I have no doubt H did too. As I am sure have many other married people. The issue for me is why anyone who does not actively want to end their marriage would chose that particularly destructive and self-serving route, rather than something helpful to the marriage.

[fellini]

99.9% of the betrayed spouses will not and cannot be satisfied with the genuine answer.For to do

so

would mean that they would need to bear some responsibility for the part they played in the health of the marriage or lack there of.

 

A huge red flag goes up when anyone tries to use a number like that for something as incredibly complex as to how a BS is going to deal with a major betrayal. We know, for example, that the "why" as in "Why did you have an affair" might not be available to the WS anymore than asking someone to explain why they love another, nor is it necessarily the same thing as "What is the meaning of the affair".

 

Reducing the why of an betrayal to simple "selfishness" is not going to help a BS. The why can be a need to reconcile a deep seated and long term trust that suddenly finds itself adrift on a sea of lies, deceptions, and emotional withdrawals. It's almost as if we (BS's - and I don't pretend to say 99.9%) are asking, more precisely, WHY ME? Why did you do this to ME! Why did you do this to US, to what WE had! We want back the security and safety of the original commitment, and somehow asking WHY seems to be the way to get it. But I think it can rarely achieve that because what is gone, is gone, and the asking about something that is gone is not going to be very fulfilling.

Edited March 24, 2014 by fellini

[confusedandhurt2002]

I told him today I want to feel about him the way I used to...before all of this, but unfortunately I will never feel that way again. That's what I mourn the most: that completely free feeling of love. Now it's something I have to work to get, not something that comes freely. Maybe it will someday.

 

We had a good talk. He's working hard.

 

 

I just don't know how long it will take me to ever feel safe with him again.

 

 

99.9% of the betrayed spouses will not and cannot be satisfied with the genuine answer.For to do

so

would mean that they would need to bear some responsibility for the part they played in the health of the marriage or lack there of.

A huge red flag goes up when anyone tries to use a number like that for something as incredibly complex as to how a BS is going to deal with a major betrayal. We know, for example, that the "why" as in "Why did you have an affair" might not be available to the WS anymore than asking someone to explain why they love another, nor is it necessarily the same thing as "What is the meaning of the affair".

 

Reducing the why of an betrayal to simple "selfishness" is not going to help a BS. The why can be a need to reconcile a deep seated and long term trust that suddenly finds itself adrift on a sea of lies, deceptions, and emotional withdrawals. It's almost as if we (BS's - and I don't pretend to say 99.9%) are asking, more precisely, WHY ME? Why did you do this to ME! Why did you do this to US, to what WE had! We want back the security and safety of the original commitment, and somehow asking WHY seems to be the way to get it. But I think it can rarely achieve that because what is gone, is gone, and the asking about something that is gone is not going to be very fulfilling.

[frogss29]

I told him today I want to feel about him the way I used to...before all of this, but unfortunately I will never feel that way again. That's what I mourn the most: that completely free feeling of love. Now it's something I have to work to get, not something that comes freely. Maybe it will someday.

 

We had a good talk. He's working hard.

 

 

I just don't know how long it will take me to ever feel safe with him again.

 

I think that is the saddest thing......we can work hard to repair the damage to our marriage but I doubt a BS will ever feel 'safe' again.

[Fluttershy]

I think that is the saddest thing......we can work hard to repair the damage to our marriage but I doubt a BS will ever feel 'safe' again.

 

Depends on the person. I feel 100% safe. But I also feel stronger and though I hope he doesn't cheat again know I will be okay if he does. My happiness comes from me. I love him and I want him but I don't need him. Need is something you die without. I won't die if he dies or leaves me. I have family friends, my children. I would miss him but I am my own person now.

[confusedandhurt2002]

the more I think about it, the more I have to agree. I don't "need" him to survive. I love him and want him, but I don't NEED him, like you said. God fills that need for me more now than He ever did before (yeah, I just got 'religious' on ya..lol. I know I don't sound like a good christian when I'm having my breakdowns in here, but I am one...imperfect and all).

 

I think that's what bothers him sometimes. He knows I'd survive if he ever left, but apparently he wants to be here with me because if he didn't he would have left with her. Sometimes I wonder if he wanted me to find out so he had an excuse to end it all and cut her off. He told me so many weird lies it was like he wanted me to call him out and tell him he was a liar and I knew. When I finally did he seemed almost relieved, yet crushed by what he'd done.

 

Depends on the person. I feel 100% safe. But I also feel stronger and though I hope he doesn't cheat again know I will be okay if he does. My happiness comes from me. I love him and I want him but I don't need him. Need is something you die without. I won't die if he dies or leaves me. I have family friends, my children. I would miss him but I am my own person now.

[Speakingofwhich]

If a spouse chose to gamble, become an alcoholic, cheated on taxes, etc...., would a wife or husband share in the responsibility of those actions? Why is cheating not seen in the same light?

.

 

You make some good points, Furious; however, better be sure your spouse isn't cheating on taxes because the IRS can hold both spouses accountable for one of them signing a fraudulent tax return!

[Tayla]

Wow. That is a lot. Whew. I had no idea.

 

In my view, the genuine answer has already been said: because he liked it and thought he could get away with it. That is why he did it. And I am totally satisfied with that answer.

 

pardon if I respectfully disagree with your condescending remark. The reality is and has been as I stated. To know the truth is too much , so as the deceived and betrayed one, its easier on you to down cast the perpetrator. which you illustrated quite well. If you read my comment in its entirety you would have an open mind to the dynamics. I sincerely do have compassion for marriages that goes thru the healing stage...Its not an easy path.

[RightThere]

He told me so many weird lies it was like he wanted me to call him out and tell him he was a liar and I knew. When I finally did he seemed almost relieved, yet crushed by what he'd done.

 

They do that as the affair continues on without you figuring it out. I know my STBXW almost started resenting me for not figuring out she was having an affair. The clues were everywhere. But when I would ask about things, she would straight up lie to me.

 

I think some WS do start going down a rabbit hole, and really struggle to figure out how they will get out of it. The affair isn't ending, but neither is their marriage. And the are too chicken to actually change anything in their lives. They just go on autopilot and hope their life figures itself out.

[Ap22]

I still have these lingering questions and he's tried to answer them, but most of the time he says "I don't know why I did those things..." and seems to want it left at that. The problem is, when I try to leave it at that, a few months later, I'm still sitting there thinking, "but he never answers me..."

 

 

Maybe they dont really know why. Maybe because they wanted to just because. When you tell a kid to leave something alone, most of the time they wont. Why? They dont know...curious, forbidden, exciting....who knows?

 

I got the I dont knows too. Us BSs are looking for answers to questions thinking they will make us feel better. Truth is, it wont. We think it will, but it wont. Reason being is that there is no answer they could give that would be good enough. We would rationalize there answer from our point of view and nothing would be good enough to consider betraying ourselves.

[fellini]

First issue for me is NOT getting an answer. And I agree with other posters as well, the WHY might not be available to the WS either. Had they THOUGHT about what they were doing (I mean really thought about it) they would have had the WHY figured out. But for many, they literally drift into the open arms of a co-worker/close "friend" without thinking.

 

Another possible reason for not getting a clear answer is the WHY might be such a mess of reasons (some to do with personal issues, some to do with marital issues, some to do only with bad timing (an AP makes him/herself available at just the right moment when things are on the edge), some have to do with mind games, some have to do with chemicals suddenly being activated in the brain... etc. etc. The thing is, analyzing any ONE of each of these "mini whys" is not going to help you see that the BIG WHY is the puzzle that includes all of them simultaneously and thus cannot be "taken in" all at once. In these cases I am quite tempted to acknowledge when a WS says "I never thought I would ever do this, it's not like me, and I abhor As. I have no idea what came over me."

 

The other issue is IF the answer WHY was forthcoming, would it be enough. Enough for what? A lot of BS's, myself included, want to stay and want to go.

 

If this is where a BS is at, then it makes sense that getting an answer as to WHY is not going to solve anything. The division is in our hearts and minds, and like happiness, love, or any other genuine emotion, the answers to your questions are not OUT THERE, they are inside. Always have been.

 

Maybe they dont really know why. Maybe because they wanted to just because. When you tell a kid to leave something alone, most of the time they wont. Why? They dont know...curious, forbidden, exciting....who knows?

 

I got the I dont knows too. Us BSs are looking for answers to questions thinking they will make us feel better. Truth is, it wont. We think it will, but it wont. Reason being is that there is no answer they could give that would be good enough. We would rationalize there answer from our point of view and nothing would be good enough to consider betraying ourselves.

Edited March 26, 2014 by fellini

[HermioneG]

Because you think of control in a completely militaristic way.

 

People make decisions based on much more than just personal issues, I have read GLASS and about a dozen others.

 

We control people to the extent that our actions, our behaviours, and what we say and believe forms part (and in a marriage, we could say, a bigger part) of what others filter when making "their own decisions".

 

To think that all of us on this planet operate out of some ideal "I control me and only me" makes no sense. To say that does not mean we are not responsible for our decisions. But anyone with a thinking mind will know that if I have a partner who is beginning to cross boundaries, consciously or not (yes, Glass also mentions it can be very unconscious) that if I am aware of this I can use my influence to CHANGE (and what is change if not a form of control?) their behaviour before its too late?

 

Absolute control over someone? I don't see the point in having a discussion in which the definition of "control" is so extreme, and frankly goes against all personal and relational experience.

 

I think of control in a militaristic way? Just because I realize that I do not have the ability to control other people? Because you expanded what I said to create a strawman? Or beause I can be Mother Theresa for all intents and purposes, but if someone chooses to do bad, that is on them, and not me?

 

That's hilarious. LOL!!!!!

 

And thanks for the insinuation that I do not have a " thinking mind", and that I am going against "personal and relational experience". I'd beg to differ, but in general, when a person resorts to tactics like that, I realize they've got nothing to actually differ with me about, and are grasping.

Edited March 26, 2014 by HermioneG

[Ap22]

And this is the most difficult thing. My husband kept asking why. I couldn't give him a reason. I always answered (and knew) it was about me - never about him - but that answer didn't help. Now a few years down the road it all had to do with my abandonment and insecurity issues and even though I was deeply religious (at the time - no more) I let my boundaries become soft - I allowed a good friendship to cross the lines because I didn't have the strength to walk away and admit to myself what was happening. I thought I could handle it - I couldn't. Neither could my xmom.

 

But even though that revelation is there it doesn't help the pain for the bs. It is hard for them to let go and realize it never had anything to do with them.

 

So so sad.

 

In my case, I knew with 100% certainty that it wasnt about me. Her AP made that completely obvious. I also knew that no matter who her husband was and not matter who the AP was, it would have happened. She cheated because of a design flaw on her part. She was selfish, insecure, and absolutely required external validation.

 

All that being said, i guess it feels somewhat better knowing it wasnt a failure on your part. The pain isnt so much that we never had anything to do with it. The pain is that the WS thought so little of the BS to just throw them away like that.

[fellini]

It's not about strawmen. It's about common sense.

To say that we cannot control others is completely against common sense and the evidence of everyday life. We all have some control over many others in our lives. It's pretty simple. We all know it to be true.

 

It would be very difficult to find anyone who can say they are 100% free of control of another human being.

 

I think of control in a militaristic way? Just because I realize that I do not have the ability to control other people? Because you expanded what I said to create a strawman? Or beause I can be Mother Theresa for all intents and purposes, but if someone chooses to do bad, that is on them, and not me?

 

That's hilarious. LOL!!!!!

 

And thanks for the insinuation that I do not have a " thinking mind", and that I am going against "personal and relational experience". I'd beg to differ, but in general, when a person resorts to tactics like that, I realize they've got nothing to actually differ with me about, and are grasping.

[janedoe67]

It's not about strawmen. It's about common sense.

To say that we cannot control others is completely against common sense and the evidence of everyday life. We all have some control over many others in our lives. It's pretty simple. We all know it to be true.

 

It would be very difficult to find anyone who can say they are 100% free of control of another human being.

 

I think you are confusing control with influence.

[confusedandhurt2002]

It's really hard to convince yourself it wasn't you when the WS tells you everything you did wrong that caused him to have the affair and also tells you "Our marriage was over before I ever had the affair..."

 

he told me this about two months ago when I had a bad day and cried about it all.

 

I told him I wished he had told me it was over because he sure as hell told her by sleeping with her and buying her a bunch of gifts worth $5,000.

 

 

I would have preferred being told it was over versus being shown.

 

 

Still, I know that he would have cheated no matter what because, yes, I do believe he has a character flaw that predisposed him to do this. It stems from his childhood. I know that.

 

I'm not saying I'm better than him and didn't make mistakes. I'm not saying I could never cheat... I believe anyone can make that poor decision, as much as it pains me to admit that, but I do believe he would have cheated no matter who he was married to.

 

In my case, I knew with 100% certainty that it wasnt about me. Her AP made that completely obvious. I also knew that no matter who her husband was and not matter who the AP was, it would have happened. She cheated because of a design flaw on her part. She was selfish, insecure, and absolutely required external validation.

 

All that being said, i guess it feels somewhat better knowing it wasnt a failure on your part. The pain isnt so much that we never had anything to do with it. The pain is that the WS thought so little of the BS to just throw them away like that.