confusedandhurt2002 Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Let's see....we are eight months past D-Day and WH has been very open for the most part, I have all passwords to all accounts, he is remorseful and we are both in counseling, though we can't currently find a marriage counselor in our area because we are in a very rural area. We are trying to find a counselor now and have individual counselors we meet with twice a month, if not more often (depends on how rough a month we're having). What WH is not as open about is my questions about the why. I guess that's because the "why" is so complicated, even for him. In the beginning he blamed my failure as a wife for a lot of the whys, but he's gotten better at that. about a month ago he tried to do that again but quickly apologized and said he was falling into old traps of trying to push the blame on someone other than himself. Believe me, the fact he recognized that was a HUGE step for him. Still, even when I think I'm OK, these horrible thoughts pop into my head about it all -- like some of the things he's told me about it all don't add up. And how he often says "I don't know" when I ask him why he slept with this person and then, if he was so horrified by what he'd done, why he continued to send her gifts, money, etc. for another 6 months after that. They also stayed in constant contact on the phone even after she moved across the country and until the day I found everything out. I believe he knows, but doesn't want to say why. I don't want to keep bringing it up and beating him over the head with it, because he says it kills him everyday to remember what he did, but this part really bothers me. She was essentially a prostitute -- he had sex with her and then bought her phones, TVs, furniture, airplane tickets for her family, paid for hotel rooms and spas, and whatever else she asked for. HE said he bought all those things for her because... "she asked." Ick. Never realized how spineless he is. She is married too with three kids. Her life is screwed up completely so it wasn't like she was some kind of escape from his life. Her husband was accused of sleeping with a 17 year old and fathering that child's baby and her daughter is 17 and pregnant and ....etc., etc. their life is waay more messed up than ours, even with this affair to deal with. I'm not condemning her for the difficulties in her life, I'm just saying it's not like going to her could have been an escape from the pressures of life.... I still have these lingering questions and he's tried to answer them, but most of the time he says "I don't know why I did those things..." and seems to want it left at that. The problem is, when I try to leave it at that, a few months later, I'm still sitting there thinking, "but he never answers me..."
RightThere Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the "why" is "because he liked it". It sounds like he recognizes that it was wrong. But I think you're looking for an answer to "why" that will give you some kind of thing you can say "Ahh, so that was the why. Well let me fix/remove that and we'll be OK going forward." You won't ever get a good answer to "why" that will give you good closure I suspect. You just need to decide if you can let it go that there isn't a good "why" and just accept that he knows it was wrong. It wasn't as simple as a cause and effect type thing. It was just something bad that happened. And you'll never resolve it, only move on from it. Edited March 21, 2014 by RightThere 6
Author confusedandhurt2002 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Posted March 21, 2014 Good advice. The thing is....I don't know if he liked her because he said she only complained about her husband and all her problems. I think he liked the attention more than anything. He claims he had sex with her one time last year....I have gone over and over and over and over it with him and even when he is the most vulnerable and broken he has insisted to me he only did once and has even given me the month, but not the day. He's told me where it happened, but not what led to it. I know he doesn't want to hurt me, but once offered to give me all the details if I really thought I needed that. I knew it would only hurt my recovery more and told him 'no.' I was very sick during the time he was having the affair, trying to figure out some health issues that crippled me. Thank God I have some answer to those now and am on the mend physically at least. Emotionally I'm only slightly better than I was at that time and, of course, after I found out what was going on. I actually, sort of knew when I was sick, but I was too weak and out of it to confront him. When I started to get my health back the proverbial **** hit the fan because I finally went searching for the evidence and found it. Sometimes I know I can't ever get a real answer to why so I can "fix" it but some days I just get obsessive over wanting to figure it all out. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the "why" is "because he liked it". It sounds like he recognizes that it was wrong. But I think you're looking for an answer to "why" that will give you some kind of thing you can say "Ahh, so that was the why. Well let me fix/remove that and we'll be OK going forward." You won't ever get a good answer to "why" that will give you good closure I suspect. You just need to decide if you can let it go that there isn't a good "why" and just accept that he knows it was wrong. I wasn't as simple as a cause and effect type thing. It was just something bad that happened. And you'll never resolve it, only move on from it.
excusememister Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Sometimes I know I can't ever get a real answer to why so I can "fix" it but some days I just get obsessive over wanting to figure it all out. Confusedandhurt - I'm in the same boat with you. I just want this to all make sense - maybe that would help start the "getting closure process"...or at least do away with some of my obsessive behavior over the affair 1
RightThere Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Sometimes I know I can't ever get a real answer to why so I can "fix" it but some days I just get obsessive over wanting to figure it all out. As a BS, I was doing that a lot too. I thought everything could be broken down into a step by step handbook of where it fell apart, and the steps the occurred which led to the infidelity. I guess what I've realized is (1) it's not that simple and (2) it really doesn't matter as much as I want it to. Not sure if you feel the same way, but I always viewed the world as very black and white. People were good or bad. Things followed a simple cause and effect. But the more I've reflected on my own STBXW's affairs, it isn't just some simple "I left the toilet seat up, she went and had an affair. Next time leave the toilet seat down." There is a lot of grey. Bad things happen and there isn't an explanation for it. And to my second point, it really doesn't matter as much as we want it to. I could have done everything right to prevent one affair from happening, but that doesn't mean everything was affair proof. Some of that was out of your control and totally with your husband. And he made the choice (or sometimes didn't make a decision but just did it) and you couldn't have prevented it. My advice would be that you need to stop asking why. It won't ever give you an answer you are satisfied with. A better question is "What am I going to do now?" 4
excusememister Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 My advice would be that you need to stop asking why. It won't ever give you an answer you are satisfied with. A better question is "What am I going to do now?" Greatest conspiracy theories of my time... *Area 51 - the Roswell UFO crash *Who shot JFK *What am I going to do now Oh, how I wish I knew "what I was going to do"???? A little more time I'm told - take a little more time
RightThere Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Oh, how I wish I knew "what I was going to do"???? A little more time I'm told - take a little more time You are allowed to take as much time as you need. I guess a better question would be "What do you need before you can decide what you are going to do?" I'd bet what you think you need, is not actually what you need. 4
excusememister Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 RightThere... You've given me something to think about. I think you're spot on! Thank You!! 2
oldshirt Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Is there an answer that he can give where you would say to yourself, "ok that makes sense." ?? Probably not. There probably isnt anything that he can say that you would accept as an adequate reason. If he said it was because she was a blond would you accept that or would say that she wasn't much blonder than you and she even has darker roots? If he said he liked her purple toenail polish would you say yeah but she also has bunions? If you are 60 years old, 300 lbs, covered in warts and need to shave every day and the other woman was 22 years old, perfect body and a model's face, then it's probably somewhat self-evident. But I am going to assume that you and she are probably within a few years of each other and probably neck-and-neck in overall attractiveness and desirability. The reason he did it was because something about her gave him a hormone rush, she was willing and he thought he could get away with it. He may have simply wanted 'more'. He may not have wanted her to replace you. He may not even find her anywhere as attractive or as nice as you, she was simply someone else. How DO you explain that? I kind of agree this may rank up there with Roswell and the Kennedy assassination, there may not be a reasonable explanation and he may not know the specific reasons of why and how he got pulled in. People are just simply not hardwired to be lifelong monogamous to only one person. Being monogamous to one person till death is a conscious choice that takes a lot of hard work and determination and sacrifice. Sometimes that choice breaks down and the dark side and the beast come out for awhile. Sometimes the beast just liked that purple sweater and the hard work of keeping the beast contained broke down. 4
frogss29 Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 I can completely understand the frustration and despair of hearing "I don't know". For me, I keep thinking, "You DO know....but just don't want to hurt me more" And I think if I KNEW, then I could get over it/move on/understand. All the answers above make perfect sense and sort of make me see things a little plainer. Problem I have is when everything is going perfectly.......husband organises a lovely date night, we have a great time and then, out of nowhere, something triggers me. A smell. A sound. A memory It is sort of like the worst fight ever that we can never really get over.
2.50 a gallon Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) One of the hardest things for a BS to understand is that sometimes the WS truly "does not know" why they did what they did. One rule of thumb is that in most cases, cheaters cheat down. From what I understand this is more prevalent in women. Quite often the BH will find out that his WW has fallen for an OM who has little to no education, is totally beneath her league in their social circle, has no job, cannot support himself and in fact at age 30 - 40's is still living with his parents. And believe it or not quite often the sex is sub par, not even coming close to what they had at home. I have even heard of the OM had severe ED and can barely function sexually, and yet the WW is willing to throw away her family, her home and her career for this POS. And when asked why. The only answer she can come up with is "I don't know?" Which makes it all the more worse for the BH as he can not understand that the WW truly does not know. And as in your case, he gets to thinking she is trying to hide something for some reason. The best explanation is that whatever it was that it filled a need within their soul. My best analogy would be for me is food. I am retired and now that I have gotten older, there are certain foods that are definite no-no's. such as good hot Mexican food. As I will pay for the next couple of days. Beer is another problem. For me giving up on beer was not a problem. However, good hot Mexican food is another matter. There are great Mexican food dishes that I can eat with no problem. But every once in awhile, I just can't resist the hot stuff, even though I know what the results will be. Then I spend the next several days, mad at myself for once again being so stupid. Edited March 22, 2014 by 2.50 a gallon 2
Tayla Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 99.9% of the betrayed spouses willnot and cannot be satisfied with the genuine answer.For to do so would mean that they would need to bear some responsibility for the part they played in the health of the marriage or lack there of. One thing thru counseling that came to light was , while the "act" of betrayal was entirely the responsibilty of the other persons, the catalyst was a mixture of symptoms seeping thru the marriage itself. It took alot to accept that and as another poster said...How can one move forward once knowing that? There comes a cross road, turning point in healing the marriage or moving on when one does finally say...okay I accept that this person (spouse) did a deed that violated our marital vows, Do I continue to dwell or do I pick up the pieces and re-invent the marriage on stable grounds. Please understand in counseling one does not BLAME the other and that is not the point in this post. Its coming to terms without the "whys" having to be foundation for rebuilding. Healing can happen..separately or thru unity... I sincerely feel compassion for the spouse who was betrayed...its a hard pill to swallow...It challenges trust, faith and respect....
BetrayedH Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 99.9% of the betrayed spouses willnot and cannot be satisfied with the genuine answer. Wow. That is a lot. Whew. I had no idea. In my view, the genuine answer has already been said: because he liked it and thought he could get away with it. That is why he did it. And I am totally satisfied with that answer. 6
Author confusedandhurt2002 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Posted March 23, 2014 He could get away with it because I was a stupid moron who let everyone walk all over me. For years. Sometimes the self hatred really comes on strong and today is one of those days. the problem I have now is how to be strong instead of bitter and a mean old bitch while I try to get some pride back. Wow. That is a lot. Whew. I had no idea. In my view, the genuine answer has already been said: because he liked it and thought he could get away with it. That is why he did it. And I am totally satisfied with that answer.
Author confusedandhurt2002 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Posted March 23, 2014 If I had been smarter maybe I wouldn't have put our family through this. My kids, me, my parents, everyone. I could have stopped it and stopped him from destroying me from the inside out. he's probably reading this too. Damnit I hate bad days.
janedoe67 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 The simple answer is: because I wanted to The blameshifting answer is: because my BS wasn't doing/giving/being ______ The real answer is somewhere in the vicinity of: I was selfish and thought only of me The "from this day forward answer" should be: Because I made a completely wrong choice, and I am going to do whatever inward and outward work it takes to be a better, trustworthy, and faithful partner." 5
HermioneG Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 99.9% of the betrayed spouses willnot and cannot be satisfied with the genuine answer.For to do so would mean that they would need to bear some responsibility for the part they played in the health of the marriage or lack there of. One thing thru counseling that came to light was , while the "act" of betrayal was entirely the responsibilty of the other persons, the catalyst was a mixture of symptoms seeping thru the marriage itself. It took alot to accept that and as another poster said...How can one move forward once knowing that? There comes a cross road, turning point in healing the marriage or moving on when one does finally say...okay I accept that this person (spouse) did a deed that violated our marital vows, Do I continue to dwell or do I pick up the pieces and re-invent the marriage on stable grounds. Please understand in counseling one does not BLAME the other and that is not the point in this post. Its coming to terms without the "whys" having to be foundation for rebuilding. Healing can happen..separately or thru unity... I sincerely feel compassion for the spouse who was betrayed...its a hard pill to swallow...It challenges trust, faith and respect.... People don't control other people. Using the marriage as an excuse is blame shifting and will lead to further trouble. I like to think I am might and powerful. It sure as heck would feel a lot safer in my life if I could "affair proof" a relationship or twist myself into a pretzel to control another person's problems. Unfortunately- life doesn't work that way. I wanted to take responsibility for the affair my spouse had- I tried. Because if it was something I did- that offered an element of control. But the first step to true healing and peace is to understand we do not control other people, and we certainly don't empower their uhealthy decisions. 4
HermioneG Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 The simple answer is: because I wanted to The blameshifting answer is: because my BS wasn't doing/giving/being ______ The real answer is somewhere in the vicinity of: I was selfish and thought only of me The "from this day forward answer" should be: Because I made a completely wrong choice, and I am going to do whatever inward and outward work it takes to be a better, trustworthy, and faithful partner." Quoting for truth. Perfectly stated. Perfectly. 1
HermioneG Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 If I had been smarter maybe I wouldn't have put our family through this. My kids, me, my parents, everyone. I could have stopped it and stopped him from destroying me from the inside out. he's probably reading this too. Damnit I hate bad days. Stopped it? Are you a magician? Are you a wizard? We do not control other people. You cannot accept responsibility for someone else's choices. 1
Author confusedandhurt2002 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Posted March 23, 2014 I know. It was a moment of "woe is me" and "pity me" on my part I think. if I was to blame I have some of control, as mentioned in a comment above, but everyone is right...I had no control. Even if I had asked him to stop talking to her, which I did, more than once, he did what he wanted to. he didn't respect me enough to even honor me at the time. I believe he's trying to change that now but...I have to ask if it's too late. Stopped it? Are you a magician? Are you a wizard? We do not control other people. You cannot accept responsibility for someone else's choices. 2
fellini Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Stopped it? Are you a magician? Are you a wizard? We do not control other people. You cannot accept responsibility for someone else's choices. No we do not have to accept responsibility, but surely we do have some control over what people CAN and WILL do! Look at today's poster who has LUCKILY discovered his wife MIGHT be crossing into an affair because he got WISE real fast. (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/468179-my-wife-cheating Now he has a choice. Sit back and let his wife continue to cross the line, or STAND in front of her and ADDRESS the issues so that new lines get drawn that do not involve a third party. Yes of course we can control other people. We control through our interactions with others. But it is not always negative control, it's called a wake up call, and its called love. And we can use those things to change our partner's decision making, and to burst the bubble before it is too late. Edited March 23, 2014 by fellini
HermioneG Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 No we do not have to accept responsibility, but surely we do have some control over what people CAN and WILL do! Look at today's poster who has LUCKILY discovered his wife MIGHT be crossing into an affair because he got WISE real fast. (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/468179-my-wife-cheating Now he has a choice. Sit back and let his wife continue to cross the line, or STAND in front of her and ADDRESS the issues so that new lines get drawn that do not involve a third party. Yes of course we can control other people. We control through our interactions with others. But it is not always negative control, it's called a wake up call, and its called love. And we can use those things to change our partner's decision making, and to burst the bubble before it is too late. Yeah. I disagree. Probably because marital issues don't cause affairs. Personal issues do. Read up on Glass, Gottman, Fisher and Pittman for further information. In the end, and even in your scenario, we do not control other people. They make decisions based on their reactions to the world, healthy or not. Frankly? Your line that we control other people? Is frightening and unhealthy in itself. You may want to examine why you have that worldview.
Betterthanthis13 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I know. It was a moment of "woe is me" and "pity me" on my part I think. if I was to blame I have some of control, as mentioned in a comment above, but everyone is right...I had no control. Even if I had asked him to stop talking to her, which I did, more than once, he did what he wanted to. he didn't respect me enough to even honor me at the time. I believe he's trying to change that now but...I have to ask if it's too late. I would change the last part of that sentence to read "he didn't respect himself enough..." People that don't respect themselves and hold themselves to some sort of moral code (whatever that is to them personally, and when no one is monitoring them) aren't even capable of respecting other people. It's just not your fault at all, there is/was something fundamentally wrong with HIM. 2
Speakingofwhich Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 ConfusedandHurt2002, like you, I wouldn't be satisfied with his answer of, "I don't know," in response to why your H had an affair. I also wouldn't be satisfied if he responded with, "Because I liked it," or, "Because I wanted to." It seems to me there are deeper reasons even the most simple of people sabotage their lives with addictions and misbehaviors and I'd want to know what would cause someone who was my closest friend on earth to betray our relationship in any way, and especially in this way. Or why they would allow themselves to do it. I would need to know in order to be intimate with that person. If he did it because he liked it I would want to know what it was that appealed to him so much about it. Was it the secretive nature? Was it because she was physically appealing? Was it because it made him feel independent or gave him a sense of freedom? Was it the romance? Was it because he felt like her savior? Was it because he was bored? Was it all of the above? Was it because he wanted more sex or to experience sex with someone different? If so, I'd want him to own it and to tell me. I would want to know and face every single reason head on and deal with it. I doubt that I could stay, though. Even if he said the reason he did it was because he'd always wanted to bed an ugly woman. LOL. I would just need to hear more than "I don't know" as an answer.
revelations Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 ConfusedandHurt2002: I know it sucks to be in your shoes and I am really sorry that you are going through this. As to "why" he would do this, well there are all kinds of different possibilities for this. Truthfully he may have a few different reasons, or he may not actually know fully himself. Another thing you have to consider is that even if he is telling the truth would you believe it? I know myself I would have a hard time believing anything a WS says to me. I know as a man myself that being single their are all kinds of reason to try out a ride with another woman. It can be an ego thing for one, for men increasing the number of women that you have been with is often an ego boost. It can be looks (sorry if this is painful), if she is attractive then having that fantasy sex is tempting. It could be jealousy, often times men are jealous because the wife can have multiple "O"'s were he can't. Curiosity can do it also, he may have just wanted to see what it was like to be with her. Now mind you that in no way do I say these are good reasons or an excuse to do what he did. He should be nothing short of grateful that you have chosen to stay with him. You are suffering a lot over a small amount of pleasure that he was able to get. Since laws are based on one persons rights ending were another persons nose begins, then you have been punched squarely in the nose by your WH (figuratively speaking). However I will let you in on something that you may or may not know. Truth is that the OW felt no better in bed comparatively. I've been lucky enough to date some really good looking women and I can tell you. They feel no different from any other woman. So if your WH was thinking it was going to be better, he had a big let down. Now I kind of went over the sex thing because that is what most men will cheat for. However on the romantic side of things, he may have built up a false image of her. This can be cause by him thinking he is saving her from something. You may want to look up the phrase "save a ho" some men get attracted to the idea of saving a woman. Bottom line is that as he has learned more and more about her, the image changes. She is no longer that damsel in distress, but just a mistake. There are many reason as to the question of "why?", and probably just one reason is not all of it. However the answer to this will never be enough to be okay with it. The problem any of us BS has is that we have had our self-esteem and pride damaged beyond all comprehension. We have been betrayed by the one person we trusted the most. Realizing that we have a totally different perspective of our WS is shocking. Make sure and take care of yourself. Get plenty of rest, eat healthy, indulge in simple pleasures in life. Establish actions that you need from your WH in order to feel secure. You may be feeling low about yourself, however you need to know that you should be treated good. I hope this helps you out and you recover no matter what you end up doing.
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