My story, as requested. :)

[Speakingofwhich]

I even went to IC where I presented my perfect, charming facade and never really did any REAL work or introspection.................................................

when you go to IC, make sure you reveal all the warts and wrinkles in you, not just the perfect and charming parts.

 

I, too, did IC before my M got into trouble. And was too ashamed to open up so basically sat there and kind of talked about my M in general watered-down terms until I realized I was accomplishing nothing so quit going.

 

Wonder if a lot of people do this? If so it seems counselors would figure that out and learn how to break through it.

 

OP, hope you're able to open up to your counselor, as Spark put it, warts, wrinkles and all! (can't remember if you wrote you're able to do this or not now).

[BetrayedH]

Come on, greeneydgrl. Don't be afraid to engage in further dialogue. We're just anonymous internet posters and it's just a conversation. Take what works for you and leave the rest. But keep talking and learning. It can't hurt and you can only benefit from the introspection.

[gettingstronger]

Its interesting on how you describe yourself- all externally motivated descriptions- accomplishments of yourself and those around you- I see this a lot as a teacher- the kids that struggle with esteem issues and therefore make poor choices often are more externally motivated- the problem with this (and so many people are this way so its not an indictment on you personally) is that you will never measure up-

 

No one is the top of the top- there is always someone better-when this realization hits the externally motivated person tends to try to gain power in one way or another only to find out they are still not the top- it becomes a cycle of self-soothing, a cycle of disillusionment-

 

When healthy and kept in perspective externally motivated people can be very successful as it drives them to better themselves-when coupled with esteem issues it can be quite destructive to them and those around them-

 

Just as an aside- I am internally motivated which in some cases makes me stagnate/complacent as a person so there is up and downsides to every personality type-

[greeneydgrl]

Hi, All!

 

Thanks again, so very much for all of your heartfelt comments. I've been otherwise focused but have thought about all your words. I'm certainly not ignoring you or afraid of you (BetrayedH or my own little nickname, *couch flamer*), just haven't had the chance to sit with any measure of peace. I will respond in the time I have here, and will get to the rest ASAP. Fair enough? I'm smiling as I type, as I can't believe complete strangers have taken the time and care to engage in my story.

 

Hope Shimmers: You are a sweetheart. If your ex is like my ex, I feel for YOU. I didn't want to negate his positive traits. I focus on the good as often as possible, but it isn't easy. I hate when his deep seated anger is taken out on the kids. Ugh.

 

JWI71, you're very wise, thank you for your thoughts. Worth much more than. .02.

 

Speaking of Which: I adored your analogy. And also appreciate your understanding the complexity and multi-facets of human personality. I will very much look forward to reading about your situation.

 

Lady2016, whew, I will have to read more of your story, but your early years are heartbreaking. You sound wonderful and strong. And so honest.

 

Spark1111. The times I was on this board reading the stories…your posts resonated with me deeply. I LOVE how your replies are so fair, understanding, well thought through and truly insightful. Many things you have said I felt could come directly from me. (Because I am so smart and helpful. ha.) Now I see we are quite the *same*. The counseling part. Let's see. I come from a long line of physicians. Let's say one of them is a psychiatrist. Let's say I know more about how therapy works than most therapists. Let's say I am, like you, a brilliant performance artist. On occasion, I have come out of a session and wanted to say, "Thanks, that will be $450, and I don't accept insurance." I can, should I choose, get them to tell me every single problem they might be facing, while revealing absolutely nothing about myself. I'm no longer doing this. Obviously while perhaps entertaining for me, NOT HELPFUL! And don't worry about the wrinkles, I have a sensational dermatologist. Couldn't resist that, but I absolutely understand what your saying. I'm getting there. And when I am open and honest...I'm really, really open. Can even exaggerate the "problematic" to a point of somewhat ridiculousness. I'm VERY aware I have the ability to put head in sand and say "Everything is fabulous!", so I can tip the scales far in the other direction trying to make up for that.

 

Couch Flamer: Like the lovely Spark, I've greatly admired your views and intelligence. I didn't originally come here to share my "plan" or even the great details of my story. I simply posted because several people asked me to. The situation with my husband (ex, legally) is far more complex than posted here. I need to be careful what details are shared for privacy reasons. I do understand how you might empathize with him. I will read further into your story as well…I WANTED others to be able to see his point of view. My coming on here and saying I found someone else because I married a ruthless, power-thriving, fear-inducing, condescending *ss&ole is not the whole story, either. I will be back to engage in further conversation.

 

GettingStronger: Interesting thoughts, and I believe you are really on to some things!

 

THANKS again, all of you so much. BTW, in times past, both of my "others" have been here. Briefly. I hesitated for so long to join in the fun, but..Here I am. Good times!

Edited March 24, 2014 by greeneydgrl

[BetrayedH]

I have to say that your jovial approach took me off-guard a bit.

 

Still, I'm glad you returned and you've probably noticed that I decided to play along.

 

Fair warning, I probably won't keep it up long as it's not really my favorite memory. But I do look forward to continuing our conversation when you've got the time and inclination. Welcome to LS.

[nais]

Husband changed just like that? Sounds like he knew what he was doing wrong and just refused to change until you had someone else. Be careful... Leopard doesn't change its spots, you have been there done that and it would not change for love but under the threat of leaving. Other situation has shown you love, now could he be violent, its possible but you are trading a known for an unknown.

[BetrayedH]

Yeah nothing like a bit of competition to get an interest in you again

 

A man should never be in competition for his wife. That's a boundary she never should have crossed.

 

which will quickly wane when he realises there is no competition anymore sadly.

 

This is a pretty big assumption. Her own assertion is that he is a changed man. Are people incapable of change? Is she then destined to become a serial cheater? The reality is that an affair is many times a wake-up call for both spouses that their marriage needs to be a higher priority. In this case, the BH has done just that, despite the fact that his wife has had an affair. It's a pretty tall order to take responsibility for marital problems in the face of your spouse's decision to have an affair. Sounds to me like he deserves some credit for that.

[Realist3]

BH, whether he has truly changed will be determined over time. Sure people can change, but more often than not they revert to the same ole' same ole' person they were. Secondly, he didn't change on his own, he was forced to change because of his wife's affair.

 

IMO, it is very difficult for two people not to fall into the same patterns if they do not spend significant time apart and create a new outlook, deal with other people, new relationships, etc.

[greeneydgrl]

BetrayedH, I love your new Avatar!! How could I not respond with something like that up? Coolest thing ever. That said, I will not refer to you as "couch flamer" again. I'm really sorry. Here's what happened. I commented to someone that you really seemed to have it together, wondered why you were posting on here so frequently. I was then made aware that while you were mostly very composed, you'd torched a couch. I couldn't believe it, but it gave me even more respect for you. You're human, had been PUSHED TO THE MAX, and lost it. These situations are what drive many to the mental ward, or worse. There have been times where I have wanted to burn down THE WHOLE DAMN HOUSE. However, the fear of life in the big house (and not this big house) has prevented that action. What I have done, in a state of rage, is cut up VERY EXPENSIVE clothing with my best kitchen shears, and put other very expensive belongings in a dumpster. These days, I usually stick to jeans and flip flops. You are not alone. I could not find the particular story for myself in your posts. I am in somewhat of a time crunch. Did see you have been through a tremendous amount of pain and heartache. I'm touched by your honesty and determination, as I'm sure are so many others. Thank you.

 

three characteristics that seem consistent anongst waywards, many times in combination. First is conflict-avoidance. While many times well-intentioned (no one wants to be a nag), eventually it builds great resentment which contributes to using affairs as a coping mechanism. Does this sound like you? Second is needing external validation. Right now you have two men pining over you and seem content with leaving them in this limbo. It must be quite an ego feed. Third is a sense of entitlement. My guess is that your privledged background may have contributed to this. Further, you focused on others for a long time in your life and now are overcompensating and it gets manifested by thoughts like, I deserve to be happy.

 

Yes, I am conflict avoidant. 90% of the time. Except when I lose it, I LOSE IT. When I've been pushed just too far, I will confront aggressively. It's all or nothing. So yes, sounds like me. Yes again to question #2. I do need a fairly good deal of public applause. Third. I suppose I do have a little thought of entitlement. It doesn't bleed into all areas of my life, however. Ie, I do not feel entitled to cut someone off in traffic if I am late. I respect others time immensely and am prompt, I normally put the needs of those I care about first, etc. Overall sense though... perhaps.

 

It's not so much that my thought process was "I deserve to be happy" (I do believe we all deserve this, IF WE WANT IT and CHOOSE it. Some people truly do not desire to be happy. Misery is more comfortable, habitual.) My thoughts were more along the line of, "I want to get the hell out of THIS god awful situation" And, "I will show you who is in control NOW." Healthy? No, of course not. Best decision I've made? Nope. Painful for a zillion reasons? YEP.

 

Reading this seems incredibly unflattering and hard to post. I do have other, more positive traits than simply being a raging narcissist with a grand sense of entitlement. Let's hope! (And I'm working on all the not so attractive things. Really.)

Greeneydgrl

Edited March 25, 2014 by greeneydgrl

[BetrayedH]

Here's a link to one of my earliest threads (different username). I got a (not so) brilliant idea at one point to have my own affair and that's when I started posting as BetrayedH. I'll warn you that it's one of the lengthiest threads on LS. It's also a bit disjointed because several posters (mostly the same person) were banned (and their posts subsequently deleted) due to their lack of civility. There are a couple of earlier and later threads (and many relevant ones under my current username) so I'll have to leave it to you to decide how much you want to invest in that undertaking. I will say that it was a remarkable thing to go through and book-worthy should I ever decide to compile it.

 

But no worries about bringing up my past. I actually have no regrets about the damn couch but I'm not proud of the next decision to toss my wife out the front door. Just like you, I'm not a big fan of looking so closely at the poor choices I've made. But I'm a grown up so don't beat yourself up about it.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/282823-next-steps

 

My point in asking you about conflict-avoidance, needing external validation, and entitlement is that those are very internal characteristics. Our family of origin and experiences during childhood do a lot to form how we respond to stress and how we handle interpersonal relationships. The choice to cheat is a remarkably personal one. There are tons of people in 'bad' marriages that never cheat. And then we read one poster after another on these forums that talk about their 'good' spouses and marriages but that they cheated anyway. Again, this just tells me that the choice to cheat has much more to do with the wayward than it does to do with the BS or marriage.

 

This is not to say that your husband isn't to blame for his problems in the marriage. He gets to own half of the problems in the marriage. Hell, he may own more than half. He seems to be owning some of that.

 

But, he doesn't own any of your choice to cheat. That's entirely in your arena. That was a decision that you made all on your own. I think that IF you want to reconcile with your H, you each have to own your separate parts. He has to commit to resolving his anger issues (and whatever else you may agree are his issues) and he needs you to own your choice to have an affair, without blameshifting it onto him or the marriage. You need to determine your own personal 'why.' It's not logical to have an affair (it doesn't exactly fix marital problems), it's not ethical to keep your spouse committed to you while you play single, it not healthy, and it's probably against your own moral values to engage in an affair. So why the heck would you make such a choice? I really don't mean to beat you up about this so please don't take it that way. It's about being introspective. Why would this be your coping mechanism? Why would you be so conflict-avoidant that you'd build up enough resentment to have an affair? Or perhaps ask why you would need external validation so much that a man could get your attention even when you're married. Or maybe think about that sense of entitlement. Or all of them.

 

The point is that if you can identify your personal 'why' then you may be more apt to recognize when you start yo use that coping mechanism again; you may be able to avoid it. And from your husband's standpoint, he may be able to have more confidence about not suffering a repeat performance. This is really critical to a betrayed spouse. If you're unwilling to dig deep into yourself about that poor decision and just blame the affair on him, he's going to have no confidence that you would do any differently in the future the next time you experience an emotional distance, have an argument, get bored, and so forth. IC is an excellent place to be doing that. I think if you can show growth when it comes to owning that decision without blameshifting and show a lot of introspection about why you let yourself do it, you may find a much more receptive betrayed spouse on the homefront.

 

Anyway, enough rambling from me today. I gotta go be productive.

[Spark1111]

Again, if the situation was so GAWD awful, why not separate go to MC, and see if there was a marriage worth saving?

 

Why not agree to see others while separated, to see if both you and your x spouse would find someone better suited to fill your needs.

 

Do you know what your needs are? Do you know what need you had that your AP filled for you but your H did not?

 

Did you express this need to your xH before embarking on your affair?

 

Are the answers to all the above questions, no, no, no, no, no?

[greeneydgrl]

Spark, I cannot answer your first statement with a "yes or no." The answer to the following three would be yes, yes, and yes.

[BetrayedH]

Spark, I cannot answer your first statement with a "yes or no." The answer to the following three would be yes, yes, and yes.

 

The first one is not a yes or no question.

 

My wife lacked the courage to communicate her 'needs.' I think that a lack of courage is a factor a lot of the time. Alone, it's not the worst of crimes. But it sure leads to a lot of poor decisions. A good therapist will lead you to discuss your fears.

[greeneydgrl]

With all due appreciation and respect for you here, I do not feel this forum to be the healthiest or most productive situation for me at this time. I wish you all the best, and most of all PEACE.

Greeneydgrl.

[Spark1111]

With all due appreciation and respect for you here, I do not feel this forum to be the healthiest or most productive situation for me at this time. I wish you all the best, and most of all PEACE.

Greeneydgrl.

 

So, please explain.....

 

You clearly expressed your needs and the desire to go to counseling to fix the marriage or you were divorcing and you were about to walk out the door and were told no?

 

is that what you are claiming?

 

I begged my fWS to go to counseling BEFORE he embarked on an affair and was asked: WHAT? I'm suppose to go and cry about how my parents treated me? (Like it was childish and unmanly) ...and I said YES!

 

He refused to go, so I took the advice that you go, alone, anyway, and I did.

 

one year later, he embarked on his affair that would last 18 months. Go figure.

[BetrayedH]

With all due appreciation and respect for you here, I do not feel this forum to be the healthiest or most productive situation for me at this time. I wish you all the best, and most of all PEACE.

Greeneydgrl.

 

It's just a conversation. And it's one that is both healthy and productive. I encourage you to reconsider.

[Realist3]

With all due appreciation and respect for you here, I do not feel this forum to be the healthiest or most productive situation for me at this time. I wish you all the best, and most of all PEACE.

Greeneydgrl.

 

 

I do hope you come back, but I can understand what you are saying. It can be intimidating and having a bunch of people with strong opinions jumping down your throat is not necessarily much fun or productive. Just brush off what doesn't apply to you. Best of luck.

[Realist3]

It's just a conversation. And it's one that is both healthy and productive. I encourage you to reconsider.

 

Good job, BH, you scared her off.

[Spark1111]

It's just a conversation. And it's one that is both healthy and productive. I encourage you to reconsider.

 

Those who cannot stand the heat run out of the kitchen. Why is that?

 

No way to fix anything, no matter which partner you are running from or to, IMHO.

[BetrayedH]

Good job, BH, you scared her off.

 

Hmm. Well, I try not to do that. But there's really only so much responsibility I can take. If you can't take anonymous online conversations about having had an affair, I can only imagine how difficult it must be at home with your actual BS in front of you.

[greeneydgrl]

I apologize for my abrupt exit and do realize it came off somewhat rudely. Not my intention.

I greatly appreciate all your comments and the time, energy, etc., that everyone has expended commenting on this thread. I spent a good chunk of time yesterday reading many of your stories, "both sides". What I see is a lot of misery, raw anger and deep sadness that for many, has continued for years. Somewhat vomit worthy. I firmly believe we create "more" of whatever we choose to put our attention on. My thought is that by participating in a regular fashion on a board such as this, it may be unproductive for MYSELF moving forward. This is not a judgement, just a personal preference. If it is beneficial to others, wonderful.

 

This, btw does not mean I am not introspective or avoiding certain issues. Just that perhaps this may not be the best way for me to resolve said issues.

As for those of you insisting that it is like talking to total strangers, it doesn't seem that way when the topic is such a real, deep, and personal issue. AND, with such frequency and extreme length.

Maybe with time to process comments already given and additional time to deal with issues in real life, I will return in limited capacity. Regardless, I wish you all wellness and peace.

Gratefully I am,

Greeneydgrl

Edited March 26, 2014 by greeneydgrl

[Speakingofwhich]

I apologize for my abrupt exit and do realize it came off somewhat rudely. Not my intention.

I greatly appreciate all your comments and the time, energy, etc., that everyone has expended commenting on this thread. I spent a good chunk of time yesterday reading many of your stories, "both sides". What I see is a lot of misery, raw anger and deep sadness that for many, has continued for years. Somewhat vomit worthy. I firmly believe we create "more" of whatever we choose to put our attention on. My thought is that by participating in a regular fashion on a board such as this, it may be unproductive for MYSELF moving forward. This is not a judgement, just a personal preference. If it is beneficial to others, wonderful.

 

This, btw does not mean I am not introspective or avoiding certain issues. Just that perhaps this may not be the best way for me to resolve said issues.

As for those of you insisting that it is like talking to total strangers, it doesn't seem that way when the topic is such a real, deep, and personal issue. AND, with such frequency and extreme length.

Maybe with time to process comments already given and additional time to deal with issues in real life, I will return in limited capacity. Regardless, I wish you all wellness and peace.

Gratefully I am,

Greeneydgrl

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This. Thanks for posting.

 

Wishing you all the best, Greeneydgrl!

[Spark1111]

I apologize for my abrupt exit and do realize it came off somewhat rudely. Not my intention.

I greatly appreciate all your comments and the time, energy, etc., that everyone has expended commenting on this thread. I spent a good chunk of time yesterday reading many of your stories, "both sides". What I see is a lot of misery, raw anger and deep sadness that for many, has continued for years. Somewhat vomit worthy. I firmly believe we create "more" of whatever we choose to put our attention on. My thought is that by participating in a regular fashion on a board such as this, it may be unproductive for MYSELF moving forward. This is not a judgement, just a personal preference. If it is beneficial to others, wonderful.

 

This, btw does not mean I am not introspective or avoiding certain issues. Just that perhaps this may not be the best way for me to resolve said issues.

As for those of you insisting that it is like talking to total strangers, it doesn't seem that way when the topic is such a real, deep, and personal issue. AND, with such frequency and extreme length.

Maybe with time to process comments already given and additional time to deal with issues in real life, I will return in limited capacity. Regardless, I wish you all wellness and peace.

Gratefully I am,

Greeneydgrl

 

Well, good luck to you!

 

I personally came to love LS despite the bricks and vitriol hurled at me by some. Even those who challenged me made me introspect. All good.

 

It was like a big rangy mob of public opinion based on personal experiences that would not, could not be spoken of anywhere else on the planet. A form of group therapy. With all the educating of myself, the reading of some great books too, my IC started writing them down.

 

how often have you met someone who introduced themselves as HI! I had an affair on my wife. Glad to meet you....Or, Hi! I cheated on my H, so nice to see you again.

 

Sorry you find some of the threads vomit worthy, but pain stuffed is much more destructive than pain communicated.

 

And happiness, true happiness, comes from within, no matter what is focused on.

 

I wish you peace.