Why do men do this?

[nutcracker]

I joined work, fresh out of college almost two years ago. I'm a very reserved person, and everyone at work was male and married, so I mostly kept to myself. There was one man in my team who I would frequently work with, who was married too, but his behaviour always puzzled me.

 

He would sometimes sit with me at my desk, to guide me through a task. Sometimes his leg would touch mine, I never understood if it was intentional but I would pull away. We soon became friends since we seemed to think alike, and go out shopping or to watch a movie.

 

The first time we went to a movie I was very apprehensive. A single woman going out with a married man? But then people did this sort of thing at my place all the time so I thought it wouldn't be a great deal if I stayed within limits.

 

But the first time, he kept his hand on mine. I kept trying to remove it, realizing this man was upto no good but he persisted. Finally I tersely told him we would leave. I'm a very soft-spoken person so I couldn't speak up, and I also was scared because he was my mentor at work. The next time, his behaviour got further unacceptable and I cried for two days, because what he did could be called the equivalent of groping/sexual abuse.

 

Then I stopped talking to him even at work. He finally apologized and said he would not do it again, and I believed him. He usually would drop me off at the bus stand and one time, he kissed me. I told him I did not want to do this, hoping he would understand why. But he said it was ok because we weren't cheating anybody. What? If this isn't cheating, what is?

 

He has helped me out a lot, and I still maintain a good relationship with him although I don't work there anymore, because he is a good person otherwise. But I cannot understand for the life of me how one can deny that it is cheating. He gives compliments on my clothes and once actually said I was looking sexy. I told him not to say something like that because it was wrong, but he still said it was alright.

 

I am scared now of getting married. Are all men like this? I'm sure his wife is a very loving person and that he means the world to her. Why should he do this, and then deny that he is doing something wrong?

Edited March 21, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[David87]

I joined work, fresh out of college almost two years ago. I'm a very reserved person, and everyone at work was male and married, so I mostly kept to myself. There was one man in my team who I would frequently work with, who was married too, but his behaviour always puzzled me.

He would sometimes sit with me at my desk, to guide me through a task. Sometimes his leg would touch mine, I never understood if it was intentional but I would pull away. We soon became friends since we seemed to think alike, and go out shopping or to watch a movie.

The first time we went to a movie I was very apprehensive. A single woman going out with a married man? But then people did this sort of thing at my place all the time so I thought it wouldn't be a great deal if I stayed within limits.

But the first time, he kept his hand on mine. I kept trying to remove it, realizing this man was upto no good but he persisted. Finally I tersely told him we would leave. I'm a very soft-spoken person so I couldn't speak up, and I also was scared because he was my mentor at work. The next time, his behaviour got further unacceptable and I cried for two days, because what he did could be called the equivalent of groping/sexual abuse. Then I stopped talking to him even at work. He finally apologized and said he would not do it again, and I believed him. He usually would drop me off at the bus stand and one time, he kissed me. I told him I did not want to do this, hoping he would understand why. But he said it was ok because we weren't cheating anybody. What? If this isn't cheating, what is?

He has helped me out a lot, and I still maintain a good relationship with him although I don't work there anymore, because he is a good person otherwise. But I cannot understand for the life of me how one can deny that it is cheating. He gives compliments on my clothes and once actually said I was looking sexy. I told him not to say something like that because it was wrong, but he still said it was alright.

I am scared now of getting married. Are all men like this? I'm sure his wife is a very loving person and that he means the world to her. Why should he do this, and then deny that he is doing something wrong?

 

He's not a good person becaues what he did with you is wrong and some might say that he cheated on his wife with you. All he wanted was to get in toyour pants. He's a douchebag.

 

To answer your question, not all men are like this. I'm telling you because I know a bunch of them who'd never cheat on their wives. I'm one of them, I never cheated on any of my long term girlfriends. Don't lose your hope.

[Eggplant]

To answer your question, not all men are like this. I'm telling you because I know a bunch of them who'd never cheat on their wives. I'm one of them, I never cheated on any of my long term girlfriends. Don't lose your hope.

This is exactly what I need to hear too.

[gettingstronger]

Makes me sad you have to ask this question because your first introduction to the workforce has been one where men are being pigs-to answer your question-NO, not all men are like that- I believe in some industries this type of behavior is more rampant but I have never experienced it in my 25+ years in the workforce-

 

As an aside- its not a good idea to go to a movie with a MM that has shown interest in you if you are not looking to be an OW-what was OK in college- men and women hanging out and being casual is so different in the workforce-be careful and protect your reputation-

[IfWishesWereHorses]

He is a predator, he does not respect boundaries, report him to HR or get a new job, that is sexual abuse and he will continue to push the boundaries.

[stillafool]

Do not go out shopping and to the movies with a MM unless it is your brother or cousin. That's called dating. You dated a MM.

[carhill]

I am scared now of getting married. Are all men like this? I'm sure his wife is a very loving person and that he means the world to her. Why should he do this, and then deny that he is doing something wrong?

 

The good news is, at a relatively young age, you're more aware of what particular people can do, the signs, the behaviors, the progression.

 

Men are men. The most successful amongst them *can* do this, and well. That's why they're successful; they have ability and style. Some of them have been doing it for a long time, in some cases since childhood. They may have learned how from a male role model. Others find their own path. Each is individual.

 

Denial, along with charm, is part of success. Best line I ever heard, though from a MW, was 'you must have misunderstood'. Repeating it now makes me smile. People are who they are. You met one. There will be others. You have a long life to live, hopefully. Other men will cross your path. The information you learned here will help you make healthy decisions in the future. Good luck!

[nutcracker]

Thank you everyone for understanding my situation. I really regret what I have done in many ways because I did not speak up... also I come from a really traditional family and I had to lie to my parents about who I was going with, saying I was going with a bunch of people. It definitely makes me a bad person.

 

But what surprises me is that he does not even acknowledge he is cheating. Or that what he is doing is wrong. And when I said he is a good person otherwise, I meant he is friendly with everybody, helpful, patient and seems to be a good family man. This, however, is such a black mark on all of this. I don't mean to support him, I'm just presenting him as I see him.

Thank you for your help !

[Quiet Storm]

He knows it's cheating. He just said that to manipulate you into thinking it was okay.

 

All men are not like this.

 

He was grooming you, similar to how pedophiles groom their victims. He used his position as a mentor and coworker to foster a "friendship" with you. He did this to make you feel comfortable with him. He wanted you to trust him, because then you will be more willing to lower your boundaries.

 

But what surprises me is that he does not even acknowledge he is cheating. Or that what he is doing is wrong. And when I said he is a good person otherwise, I meant he is friendly with everybody, helpful, patient and seems to be a good family man.

 

The person that he portrays to the world is his "ideal self". He shows what he wants other people to see.

 

He showed you his "real self". His dark side. His actions towards you do not fit with his good guy image. He knows this, which is why he is making an effort to reassure you that he is still a good guy, with his "this isn't cheating" line. It is a very common tactic that pedophiles & predators use. Priests will tell little boys "God told me this was OK", coaches will tell kids "we are friends, friends do nice things for each other", they will show kids porn and say "Look everyone does this, it's OK".

 

He's trying to normalize his behavior, in order to get you to be OK with it. Your instincts are screaming "THIS IS WRONG", but he wants you to ignore those feelings.

 

This man is not your friend. He was exploiting you. He is taking advantange of the fact that you are young, naive and trusting. He was using your respect for him, your admiration of him to manipulate you.

 

In the future, do not go to movies or on outings with married men. It is very unlikely that married guys are going to take out single women with only friendship in mind. Read up on manipulation and the various tactics. You can avoid situations like these by keeping your boundaries strong.

 

But the first time, he kept his hand on mine. I kept trying to remove it, realizing this man was upto no good but he persisted.

 

You realized at this moment that his intentions were not innocent. This was your red flag to STAY AWAY. You heard warning bells, but you ignored them and continued to have contact with him. You are still viewing him as a good person. It sounds like you are still taking his words at face value, because you believe that he feels this isn't wrong.

 

I am not saying that what happened is any way your fault- IT'S NOT. But there were clues that told you that he wasn't a good guy. In the future, listen to your instincts! Heed the warnings. We have those inner alarm bells for a reason- to keep ourselves out of harms way. If you have to lie to your parents about a guy, it's not a good sign.

 

You did not give in, which shows what a strong & good person you are! But you could have protected yourself sooner if you had heeded those early warnings.

 

Take this as a lesson learned and have no further contact with him. Think of a plan for how you will respond in the future when married guys or other obvious players hit on you. Pay attention to those gut feelings!

[LoveTKO]

Be careful with this individual. He has all the hallmarks of a predator grooming his next victim in order to satisfy his desires. It's quite obvious that the positive work relationship that he established belies the fact that it's all a big ruse so that he can gain your trust and take advantage of you.

 

You feel beholden to him because he helps you out at work and gives you compliments, but it's just a way to manipulate you with the FOG of fear, obligation, and guilt. He's highly manipulative and you need to report him to human resources because he's creating a hostile work environment for you.

[jellybean89]

Thank you everyone for understanding my situation. I really regret what I have done in many ways because I did not speak up... also I come from a really traditional family and I had to lie to my parents about who I was going with, saying I was going with a bunch of people. It definitely makes me a bad person.

 

But what surprises me is that he does not even acknowledge he is cheating. Or that what he is doing is wrong. And when I said he is a good person otherwise, I meant he is friendly with everybody, helpful, patient and seems to be a good family man. This, however, is such a black mark on all of this. I don't mean to support him, I'm just presenting him as I see him.

Thank you for your help !

 

You are not a bad person. You were naive and innocent.

 

Now you know -- he is looking for a hook up. I hope you are done 'seeing' him and I really think you need to stop being in contact with him.

[tornado]

Hello nutcracker, I noticed one thing you said: "I am a very reserved person".

 

Bingo. Me too. Some men take advantage on shy females.

 

They think it will be easy, and that they are perfect for a hidden relationship.

 

Try to be more assertive with him next time you see him. He will run away.

[nutcracker]

This same man came to CA (where our head office is located), and I am currently in AZ, at grad school. Last week he told me he was coming and wanted to meet me, but knowing what kind of a person he was, I tried my best to tell him I couldn't make it. I said I had exams, assignments, and a basically tight schedule---anything that would make him back off. But he persisted. Finally I had to give in, but only if he would not do anything he had done before. I reiterated the same statement a thousand times and let him know I was staying away from my parents (I am an international student), that they trusted me and I could not break that trust. He said he understood and respected what I was saying, but I was still extremely uncomfortable.

 

One day he said he could not come to AZ and told me he would pay for my trip to CA instead. I asked him where I would be staying, and he said at his room. I denied his suggestion and said I would not come in that case, but he said there were two beds in his room. Despite my saying I was simply not comfortable with the whole arrangement, he did not relent and finally I had to give in.

 

When I get there, I found that there was only one bed. I got pretty furious, but politely told him I would sleep on the couch. He did not listen again, and said he would move to the couch later if I fell asleep. I must have repeated my statement atleast thrice, still negative. Finally I told him he had to maintain distance. But I have a problem sleeping, and at night, he began to sleep on me, and then made me sleep on him, despite my protests to not do anything. I even got up to go off the couch but he pulled me back. Finally I jumped off and started to sob, and told him he was a married man who shouldn't be doing this. At this point I was seriously contemplating leaving, but it was the middle of the night and there was no possiblity of booking a bus, the one thing that I can take home. He apologized fervently and I thought things were ok.

 

The next night, I had the same argument with him, ending in him sleeping on the far edge of the bed. I woke up in the middle of the night and came back only for him to start kissing me, and then gave me oral. For awhile I didn't even realise what was happening. Then I told him to stop. I said I would sleep on the couch. He wouldn't let me. He must have repeated the oral 3-4 times till morning, with me being completely powerless and not being able to make him stop... although I was constantly saying "no" and telling him this was wrong.

 

Finally, in the morning I went to take a shower, and opened the door ever so slightly to ask him a question. Seeing this, he forced the door open, begging me to take a shower with him, and entering the tub with me. At this point I was crying, asking him to stop. It took him a awhile to realise what he was doing wrong.

 

I am broken now. And I am blaming myself so much. Why did I let him give me oral? Why couldn't I have said "no" more assertively? It was not like I wanted him to do it, I didn't. He has a wife and I am sick to the stomach now, and I have been crying since this am. Please... please tell me I'm not the other woman.

Edited March 31, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Bootsie]

Did you have full on sexual intercourse with him, and if so was protection used. If not, the first thing is to get to a doctors for the morning after pill, assuming your religion allows this. If not go to a doctor anyway to discuss your options as you may be pregnant.

 

 

Your post is all over the place as to whether or not a rape occurred. The key issue is "consent". Normally "no means no" as they say, but it doesn't sound as though your "no" was as clear and emphatic as it could have been. Nor apparently did you remove yourself from the situation as soon as you could, unless I'm missing something. The fact that you stayed at least one additional night, could tell against you, but again if you feel you were raped I suggest you discuss it with the doctor and get the police involved sooner rather than later.

 

 

You sound very young, so I'd advise in future do not get yourself into this sort of ambiguous situation again. Agreeing to stay the night with a man, who is clearly expecting sex, is very dangerous and risky behaviour for you. Even if the law says it was rape due to lack of consent, the fact that he may get into trouble over it, is no consolation to you, who has endured the rape. I'm not saying you were asking for it or anything, but you do have a responsibility, if only to yourself, to take care of yourself.

Edited March 31, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed whole quoted post

[Arieswoman]

Bootsie,

 

but he said there were two beds in his room.

^^^^^^^^

At this point you should have flat-out refused to go.

 

When I get there, I found that there was only one bed.

 

^^^^^^

At that point you should have demanded another room, or walked out.

 

Please do all the other things that have been suggested, such as being tested for STDs etc. going to the police.

 

You made some unwise choices, due I believe, to being young and naiive. Please also embark on a course/programme of assertiveness training.

 

I am sorry that this happened to you.

[Bootsie]

Bootsie,

 

 

^^^^^^^^

At this point you should have flat-out refused to go.

 

 

 

^^^^^^

At that point you should have demanded another room, or walked out.

 

Please do all the other things that have been suggested, such as being tested for STDs etc. going to the police.

 

You made some unwise choices, due I believe, to being young and naiive. Please also embark on a course/programme of assertiveness training.

 

I am sorry that this happened to you.

 

 

Arieswoman, it was not me but nutcracker.

[eye of the storm]

Ok...This has so many issues, it is hard to know where to start.

1. You keep saying he forced you to agree to let him come visit and he forced you to visit him. He didn't. It was a choice you made. He can buy all the plane/bus tickets he wants but he cannot force you to use them unless he physically uses force then he can be charged with kidnapping.

2. If he is already bullying you to do things you are uncomfortable, why are you engaging him in conversations about where you would be staying?

3. Since we are already down the rabbit hole, once you got there and saw one bed, why did you stay. You have already shown you cannot/will not tell him no and he has shown he will push boundaries to get what he wants.

4. Why did you open the bathroom door while you were naked and taking a shower?

 

I know I'm going to be flamed for this...but yes you are the other woman. You knowingly went to stay with a married man who you knew wanted to sleep with you and you made it as easy as possible for him.

 

If you don't want to sleep with someone, don't crawl into their bed. If they actually force you into their bed, do not stay with them another night, you call the cops and have them arrested for rape.

 

Again, this is just my opinion. but this sounds more like guilt and regret for your actions than rape on his part.

 

I have friends from cultures that are not known for the women standing up for themselves but when protecting their virtue, they are more than capable of saying no and standing firm. One calls an adopted cousin if men bother her as she is uncomfortable standing up for herself. She calls her cousin, gives her cousin the info, the cousin calls the offending male and tells him to stop contacting her. Or you could just block his number and stop engaging him. You don't even have to say no, just stop being available to him. He cant "force" you if he cant talk to you.

 

Look, I was the OW for years, and the odds are I'm going to slip back with him again. But it is my choice and my consequences. I don't blame him for my choices. Accept responsibility for yours and if you don't like them, don't do them again.

 

Good luck.

[Arieswoman]

Apologies, Bootsie, I read the wrong post.

[italianjob]

Did he force intercourse on you? You might go to the police if you think you have the grounds for a rape charge.

 

You should also think about your decisions, anyway. From what has been going on with this man, it was quite obvious he was trying to get you to have sex with him. Why did you let him get you in a position that would make it easy for him to try again and difficult for you to back out?

Edited March 31, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed quote of first post

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Nutcracker,

 

You refuse to take any accountability for your actions. If he couldn't come to you, you were off the hook. If you choose to be a victim then be it. In all of these situations you say, "I didn't want to but he made me." That's just not true, in every situation you agreed and put yourself right there. I don't understand your need to blame him for your choices.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

This whole post just sounds so outrageously unbelievable to me. Why would you fly to see a married man and stay in a hotel room with him if you did not want to have any romantic kind of relationship with him?? I'm sorry, I have to call bullsh*t on this one. Just makes no sense whatsoever for someone to try to paint a sob story of a situation they repeatedly put themselves in, and then say, "Why would he do this??" The real question is, "Why did YOU do it?"

[stillafool]

I agree also. LS members warned you what this man was up to and still you engaged him. Do you have romantic feelings for him? Why would you go out of town to meet a MM that you have no romantic interest in? I don't think you are as naive as you say. Why didn't you tell him (the first time he called you) that you didn't want to get involved with a MM? That you were uncomfortable with his suggestions and to please not contact you anymore?

[nutcracker]

I agree also. LS members warned you what this man was up to and still you engaged him. Do you have romantic feelings for him? Why would you go out of town to meet a MM that you have no romantic interest in? I don't think you are as naive as you say. Why didn't you tell him (the first time he called you) that you didn't want to get involved with a MM? That you were uncomfortable with his suggestions and to please not contact you anymore?

 

Thank you for your replies everyone.

Please believe me when I say that I did not want to get romantically involved with him. I cannot count the number of times I told him I was uncomfortable with the arrangement, that it was wrong and I could not accept it. But he did not listen to me. I know travelling ultimately might sound like my choice, but it is not a choice I made willingly. I kept replaying what LS members said here about this not being the case of "friendship" but a date. Even at the last minute I tried all possible ways not to get on the bus, but I got on because I felt guilty about wasting a bus ticket. Please. understand. I am just the kind of person who gives way too much of importance to other people and myself last. I DID NOT want to do anything romantically with him. Even when he was speaking on the phone with me and trying to make romantic advances, I fielded all of them. Please do not think I had an inkling of interest.

No, I did not have sex with him. And when I went there and saw the one bed, I seriously contemplated the second room, but wondering about the monetary implications that he would have to bear, did not push it. That is my problem.... I am not an assertive person and I am very soft. Please please believe me when I say absolutely had no intention of romancing him. Whenever he even touched my hand the first day I would pull away and tell him I was not comfortable and made it clear not to touch me.

Please believe me, I tried. I tried every possible way. Before I went there I planned all possible ways to walk out on him if something like this happened. But when I got there, whenever I said I wanted out, or was not comfortable, I was put on the spot. Really, please understand that I tried. Later when he broke down and apologized for everything he did accept that it was totally his fault.

[italianjob]

This same man came to CA (where our head office is located), and I am currently in AZ, at grad school. Last week he told me he was coming and wanted to meet me, but knowing what kind of a person he was, I tried my best to tell him I couldn't make it. I said I had exams, assignments, and a basically tight schedule---anything that would make him back off. But he persisted. Finally I had to give in, but only if he would not do anything he had done before.

 

The point is there, nutcracker, you could just say no and not meet him, it was quite obvious what was going to happen.

What do you mean when you say you had to give in?

[Owl6118]

To answer your question, not all men are like this. I'm telling you because I know a bunch of them who'd never cheat on their wives. I'm one of them, I never cheated on any of my long term girlfriends. Don't lose your hope.

 

Agreed. Nor have I, nor have most of the men I call friends.

 

Hint: look for men who demonstrate kindness and empathy for their own sake to all they meet. Is he courteous? Thoughtful? Does he treat people from all walks of life decently? When someone has these qualities in depth, you know it.

 

By contrast, any man who shows up front that he is willing to betray a vow, or force attention on you that you do not what, is not demonstrating these qualities. He may have charisma, or magnetism, or passion, or be exciting, but he is not a kind and empathetic man.

 

While there are now ironclad guarantees in life, a man who has kindness and empathy is a very, very good bet.