Question for FWW or anyone who has an answer

[revelations]

Myself I have an XWW that did sexual acts for another man that she refused to do for me. Likewise I have seen quite a few posts by BH's and some BW's that talk about this problem. I have heard all kinds of reasons for this and will list them out along with my reply to the reason.

 

 

Reason: I was living out a fantasy, I was excited because it was forbidden.

Me: So there is no way I will ever be able to turn you on the way he did?

 

This is one that probably stings the most. With this reason xOM is part of a fantasy that a BH will never be able to compete with or duplicate.

 

 

Reason: It is my body to do with and give to however I wish. You nor the xOM owns my body.

Me: Okay then does that mean I can do with my body as I wish and give it to who I wish?

 

The statement that it is her body to do with as she pleases is true. However same thing holds true for him. This sets up conflict and is a double edge sword.

 

 

Reason: He was not as large as you so I could do that without pain.

Me:........Do you think so good lube would work? No?? *sniff*

 

This is probably one of the reasons that is the most tolerable. However it still does not take away the sting that xOM got to go where it is off limits to you.

 

 

I would think that as an XWW you would be more than happy to do something so small to make your BH feel like he is not missing out or less than the xOM. I understand that most people will be against the BH getting a threesome if that is what xOM got. However I am sure that most people could understand why the BH would want one then and figure out something.

 

I would like to know mainly from the XWW that have been through this in there recovery.

 

Question: How were you able to justify to yourself that giving your self to the xOM in a certain way and denying it to your BH is okay?

 

 

Question: If your BH had to accept that he will never get from you what you gave the xOM, then how did you help your BH work through this?

 

 

Question: How do you feel about yourself now knowing that you gave of yourself to the xOM that you choose not to give yourself to your BH?

(I am sorry I know this questions sounds a bit cold, I am just trying to see what the thinking is. This is not an attack or to berate).

 

Any input will be helpful. Even though I am no longer with my XWW to this day it is still something that has a negative impact on me and how I view the risk of relationships. I do my best not to view women as being cold and manipulative. However it is difficult for me not to view romantic relationships with women as a bad thing since any feelings I have are dismissed as being trivial. Looking back at all my romantic relationships with women at the end I felt like I was no better than her accessory.

 

These are serious questions and I thank you in advance for your honest responses.

[Buckeye2]

Sigmund Freud first identified the Madonna–wh0re complex. This psychological complex develops in men who see women as either a saintly Madonna or a debased prostitute.

 

Freud wrote: "Where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love."

 

A variation of this is a woman who wants her life partner to see her as respectable. By having an affair she is already a bad girl by definition.

 

That’s the way the OM sees her and that is the way she sees herself in the affair environment. She is free to be wild and it feels right in that environment.

 

She can’t let the bad girl out with the man who accompanies her and her kids to church or school functions.

 

The following thread by Mattzeo is a classic example of this. Just read the posts by the OP (mattzeo).

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/cheating-flirting-jealousy/349853-my-wife-had-long-term-affair

[revelations]

Wow thanks Buckeye2 I did not even remember the Madonna–wh0re complex. However I would still think that once MC and IC starts that eventually a woman would recover from this. I mean I may be wrong on this, however i would think that a woman would understand the effect this has.

Maybe it could be something psychological such as narcissism? From what I have experienced voicing that I was dissatisfied only resulted in a dismissal of my feelings. Truthfully like I was nothing to the woman I was with for so many years. I have accepted the fact that I probably was little more than a paycheck to her. This is why I was wondering with the FWW what is the thinking of this being okay years later post D-Day. For me my XWW could have done everything right (which she was not even close to) and I still would have left her due to this. It is understandable to me that some men may not see this as important as the number of times or something else. Showing love is something that is unique to how an individual will perceive it.

 

However thanks it points me in the right direction..

[HPrynne]

Can't relate to what Buckeye2 said at all, thought no doubt it is true for some/many as all experiences differ.

 

 

Reasons that make more sense to me, but may be ones a WW does not want to share with her BH (because she might think they would be more hurtful to you that the reasons you listed):

 

 

(1) OM makes her feel less self-conscious or judged in sexual situations, because of his attitude, manner and comments;

 

 

(2) WW feels safer with OM because he is a more attentive or considerate sexual partner;

 

 

(3) OM is not as self-conscious or insecure in bed as BH - may come across as confidence, as acceptance, or both;

 

 

(4) OM is better at pleasing WW in bed.

 

 

I would think any of those could occur in combination as well.

[revelations]

Thanks HPrynne...

 

I can see were those would be a major factor. I also know that right after D-Day that all of these things would totally be in the toilet for the BH. I don't know about others, however for myself expecting these traits from me would be like asking me to grow a foot taller.

 

I can see that your answers are honest, however I can also see that by not admitting to this it will prevent the BH from becoming that better or more attentive lover.

 

Thanks again for your honest answer. Anything more you think of please feel free to share it with me.

[Furious]

Very rarely does a woman give of herself physically without being emotionally wooed. This wooing consists of being told how special they are, how beautiful they are....having the OM hanging on their every word....it's about feeding their ego. Words are powerful and the OM is more than willing to say whatever it takes to get whatever he wants.

 

She wants to please him, wants the love bombing to continue and she will do with him whatever it takes to continue feeling special.

[toolforgrowth]

My experience has shown me that this is a two way street. After my xWW and I separated and I had confirmation of her PA, I began dating again. Met my current GF, who gladly does things to me that my xWW NEVER did without some major begging and bargaining.

 

I get where you're coming from, it's hard to imagine your spouse freely cavorting with another person when all you got was scraps. BUT...when you let them go, you also let yourself go to find someone who will gladly cavort with YOU.

 

When my xWW found out I was with someone new, she went kinda crazy. Sent my GF all kinds of weird messages on FB from an alias account. She knew I was very unhappy with the state of our married sex life, and when I met someone who was much prettier than her (and who rocks my world), she probably knew that I was getting better sex from my GF than she ever gave me.

 

Think of it this way. I'm sure my xWW had rad sex with her xAP. Now imagine her imagining me having that same rad sex, ONLY WITH ANOTHER WOMAN. And when my xWW came sniffing around more than once, I metaphorically slapped her away with everything I had. She knew. She knew my world was getting rocked in ways that she never did for me, and that she just couldn't compare to what I'm getting now.

 

Never settle for scraps. There are women out there who will happily rock your world, and I found one. And she's all mine.

[drifter777]

I'm a BH so I can only guess but I do know something about psychology so here goes. Women want an alpha man to screw for the sheer joy of it and they want a beta man to vacuum the floor and change diapers. If you are the kind of man who loves being a husband and father then you are at grave danger of being a BH. Your natural behavior in the bedroom is putting her to sleep and she's always tempted to say yes to that bad boy and get her brains pounded out. I'm really not overstating - this is the opinion of many, many learned human sexuality experts.

[veritas lux mea]

I always assumed if a woman actually does things with her AP she directly turned down with her H it was because she wasn't as sexually in to her husband. But I see another side now.

 

Think of those young girls who get attatched to someone. That person realizes that they have that power. They can get her to do anything and have the attitude that they can take or leave the person. The person becomes desperate and pathetic. That happens in affairs too. Not a very flattering personality.

 

But this is just speculation. I'd do anything my H wanted to do at least once.

[drifter777]

I always assumed if a woman actually does things with her AP she directly turned down with her H it was because she wasn't as sexually in to her husband. But I see another side now.

 

Think of those young girls who get attatched to someone. That person realizes that they have that power. They can get her to do anything and have the attitude that they can take or leave the person. The person becomes desperate and pathetic. That happens in affairs too. Not a very flattering personality.

 

But this is just speculation. I'd do anything my H wanted to do at least once.

Sounds reasonable to me. It's pretty much the "alpha" theory don't you agree?

[veritas lux mea]

Sounds reasonable to me. It's pretty much the "alpha" theory don't you agree?

 

Not really. More of the doing what you can to keep things going and not lose your A partner. It isn't even enjoyable being like that if you are honest. It isn't about an Alpha male either. The other reason which I believe happens is about being attracted and enjoying that dominant personality. This is fear.

 

 

Affairs make people very unhealthy.

[RightThere]

Question: How were you able to justify to yourself that giving your self to the xOM in a certain way and denying it to your BH is okay?

 

The WW lives in fantasy land during the affair. They are more open because it's part of the fantasy that they are no longer a wife or a mother or someone who will be judged by performing crazy sexual acts. They do it with their OM because it's secret and romantic and there are no repercussions of kids in the next room or dirty dishes that really should be done.

 

These women WANT to do these dirty things. They don't do it with their husbands because they feel they'll shatter their image of the wife/mother that they think their husband is accustom to.

 

Coming back to a BH, they do feel somewhat like they are back in the old relationship (and subject to punishment) so with more strings attached, they feel further under your thumb, so still don't want to do those things.

[badkarma2013]

Lurked here for awhile.....This subject is one i cant wrap my head around,as happened to me. After DDay i convinced my ww if i was to stay she must tell me everything...The things she told me made me break out in a cold sweat. She did things with OM ,for years she said was DISGUSTING and could not or would not explain to me why. After 1 year of looking for answers and confronting Om and his BW, I found more truth than i could ever forgive and filed for d....She still doesnt understand what that did to me.

[drifter777]

Not really. More of the doing what you can to keep things going and not lose your A partner. It isn't even enjoyable being like that if you are honest. It isn't about an Alpha male either. The other reason which I believe happens is about being attracted and enjoying that dominant personality. This is fear.

 

 

Affairs make people very unhealthy.

This is alpha.

[drifter777]

Lurked here for awhile.....This subject is one i cant wrap my head around,as happened to me. After DDay i convinced my ww if i was to stay she must tell me everything...The things she told me made me break out in a cold sweat. She did things with OM ,for years she said was DISGUSTING and could not or would not explain to me why. After 1 year of looking for answers and confronting Om and his BW, I found more truth than i could ever forgive and filed for d....She still doesnt understand what that did to me.

Congratulations for living the strength of your convictions! You have become one of my hero's! Stay here on LS - the BH's that come here need to hear stories from men who chose not to accept a cheater. That divorce is not the end but can be a new beginning. They hear plenty of "don't throw away a marriage over one mistake" crap on here and need to know their is another path to recovery.

[veritas lux mea]

This is alpha.

 

Sorry, my post was not well writ. I meant what you described is alpha. What I was talking about is out of fear.

 

What I think is crazy is a WW who afterwards won't give it to their BH if the BH wants to try those same things. I know I would have been willing to do anything sexually for my husband after. But I was willing before so...? I don't know. I can understand trying new things with the AP during the affair. I just can't say you are wanting to R and not doing those things with your BH.

[badkarma2013]

When i told the BW of the affair (about 3 months after DDay)...the OM came to my office and showed me 12-15 pics (on his phone) of my wife doing sex acts that we so offbase for me she wouldnt talk about them.....His wife since divorced him as well....I did not let my anger go toward because we as BH's want to beat the man to a freakin pulp....But it was my wife of 22 years who CHOSE to become WHORE and break our marriage vows....again still have trouble understanding the events that she let herself do really sick S^&T.

[toolforgrowth]

the BH's that come here need to hear stories from men who chose not to accept a cheater. That divorce is not the end but can be a new beginning. They hear plenty of "don't throw away a marriage over one mistake" crap on here and need to know their is another path to recovery.

 

I think it all depends on how remorseful the WW is, but even then, I agree with this 100%.

 

The marriage was thrown away as soon as another sexual partner was brought into the mix. Placing the onus on the BS for choosing to divorce after that is absolutely ludicrous. And yes, recovery and reconciliation are not tied together.

 

If a BH decides to reconcile with his WW, that's his choice. But the WW must be very remorseful and do everything right to prove to the BH she would never do it again. And be the kind of wife the BH deserves going forward for the rest of their lives. Anything short of that is completely meaningless.

 

I never once regretted my divorce. I worked on myself, got a promotion at work, forged an even better relationship with my daughter, and found myself a stunningly beautiful woman with a very high drive who wants only me. If that isn't a happy ending, I'm not sure what is.

[badkarma2013]

I Agree....Do not confuse Forgiveness with Reconciliation ....For the are not the same thing!!

[Vega57]

Myself I have an XWW that did sexual acts for another man that she refused to do for me. .

 

 

I have 2 other possibilities...

 

 

1. Just like many WS husbands tend to see their spouse as someone who only wants them for their wallet, a WS wife may see her husband as someone who only wants her for sex. Much of this perception is formed during the 'demonizing' process in order to justify their affair.

 

 

If you harp on the issue of sex ("You did 'it' for HIM; why not for ME?") it confirms what she may have believed.

 

 

And/or...

 

 

2. Freedom. Quite often, once people get married, the dynamic of the relationship changes and freedom seems to be 'lost'. For example: If a woman cooks for her live-in boyfriend, she's doing it freely and out of 'love'. She's doing it because she WANTS to and not because she HAS to. But once she's married, she may be EXPECTED to.

 

 

The same principle can be applied to sex. A woman may be expected to have sex with her husband. The expectation makes sex something that she no longer looks forward to (like she may have done during courtship). It's now a 'duty' as opposed to something that's freely given.

 

 

A number of WS men have this same issue. They often tend to see the love of their wives as something they HAVE to do, and not something that's freely given. They see their AP's "love" as more 'genuine' because there's nothing that's 'forcing' the AP to "love" (such as marriage!).

 

 

People can get caught up in the 'duties' of marriage. They begin to see their partner as doing things out of 'duty', and not voluntarily. And sex is no different. Once married, sex is EXPECTED and no longer 'freely given'.

 

 

Might explain a lot...

 

 

Just my 2 cents

 

 

Vega

[toolforgrowth]

I have 2 other possibilities...

 

 

1. Just like many WS husbands tend to see their spouse as someone who only wants them for their wallet, a WS wife may see her husband as someone who only wants her for sex. Much of this perception is formed during the 'demonizing' process in order to justify their affair.

 

 

If you harp on the issue of sex ("You did 'it' for HIM; why not for ME?") it confirms what she may have believed.

 

 

And/or...

 

 

2. Freedom. Quite often, once people get married, the dynamic of the relationship changes and freedom seems to be 'lost'. For example: If a woman cooks for her live-in boyfriend, she's doing it freely and out of 'love'. She's doing it because she WANTS to and not because she HAS to. But once she's married, she may be EXPECTED to.

 

 

The same principle can be applied to sex. A woman may be expected to have sex with her husband. The expectation makes sex something that she no longer looks forward to (like she may have done during courtship). It's now a 'duty' as opposed to something that's freely given.

 

 

A number of WS men have this same issue. They often tend to see the love of their wives as something they HAVE to do, and not something that's freely given. They see their AP's "love" as more 'genuine' because there's nothing that's 'forcing' the AP to "love" (such as marriage!).

 

 

People can get caught up in the 'duties' of marriage. They begin to see their partner as doing things out of 'duty', and not voluntarily. And sex is no different. Once married, sex is EXPECTED and no longer 'freely given'.

 

 

Might explain a lot...

 

 

Just my 2 cents

 

 

Vega

 

Of course there's going to be an expectation of sex. When a person gets married, they don't go into it believing that sex will stop. If the sex stopped after marriage, nobody would get married. And since infidelity is socially immoral, where else is a person supposed to get sex unless it comes from their spouse?

 

You actually hit on a major problem in marriages without even realizing it: wants become expectations because when many people get married, they stop trying. Why bother keeping your husband happy when you know he's expected to pay the bills now that you're married? And why bother keeping your wife happy when you know she's expected to continue having sex with you now that you're married?

 

You're looking at the symptoms, not the disease itself.

 

All it takes to ruin the relationship is for one partner to stop trying.

[revelations]

Thank you, all of you have given some very good perspectives on this subject. veritas lux mea that willingness to do anything for your husband at least once goes a long ways. Truthfully a man or a woman is responsible for their own self-esteem. However the person closest to them such as a WW or a WH has great effect on their self-esteem. For example if a man is having a one night stand and the woman says "You got a small d***" he may say something in retort, however he will largely dismiss what she has said. However take the same guy years later that is married and those same words will him very badly. I think a lot of it has to do with being attached to the person their opinion means much more to us. The subject of a FWW giving her self to an xOP and refusing to do that to her husband is much the same thing. However instead of using words it is using actions. By your willingness to do anything for your BH it has probably headed off a lot of problems.

 

toolforgrowth I totally agree with you on that. I did try for a short while to stay with my XWW however in the end she made it very clear that my only role was to take care of her financially. The sexual side of things she was only going to do the minimum that she thought was required of her. So being alone is a much better outcome for me than to be with someone like that. Finding someone else is not a problem. For about a year or so after we divorced I had a bunch of ONS mostly with strippers, so I made sure to have some fun. I have started a couple of relationships, however I broke those off at the first red flag I seen. Right now I have started seeing another woman that seems pretty cool, no red flags or anything. My worry is that even finding that woman, such as you did, that I would not believe it and run from her. Major reason for asking these questions is to find out personality traits to be aware of so that I can minimize the damage done to me and maybe even prevent it.

 

I can see were a since of expectation and duty verses doing it out of love or designer are major factors in this. Likewise the Madonna wh0re complex and fantasy land would also be major factors. Like any BH one of the things you would expect is that your wife to preform all these acts for you without question. On her side she sees it as she is being placed under your thumb. So it would be a problem that would keep building rather than being solved. The alpha lays and beta pays example I have seen is true with some women, very similar to the Madonna wh0re complex. She compartmentalizes her husband and her lover/s into different rolls in her life. The husband gets standard boring vanilla sex from her and is expected to maintain a certain lifestyle for her. The other men are expected to have that wild hot monkey sex with her. The husband never really gets seen as a human with sexual needs and wants. What really defines the Alpha lays and beta pays is that the beta will never be looked at as anything else than a provider. The beta husband may ask or request for the sexual favors she has given the OM, however they will never happen. Often times I have seen were the WW would dismiss the request and reason as just being insecure. The beta provider is expected to stay in his box and any feelings are dismissed because they do not matter. I have noticed myself that women who are caught up in the Alpha lays and beta pays are often very narcissistic.

 

With all this being said, I would still think that any FWW that had been in IC would have changed their perspective and be more than willing to do these acts with their BH. In a case were the FWW did a threesome for her xOM I can see were most would say it is not a good idea for her to do that for her BH. However I would still think that some sort of middle ground could be reached on something like that. I would also think that if a FWW had performed sexual acts with the xOM that would be very damaging in a marriage that she would be doing what she could to raise the bar in other ways with her BH. Sadly this seems to almost never happen. From what I have noticed that this is largely to do with the FWW's perspective of her BH husband and also the BH's reaction. When the BH goes from demanding to begging then he is often times digging himself farther into that beta hole the FWW has placed him in. However if the BH is able to display confidence and show that the FWW does not have him in the right box, these sexual acts can still be off the table because then the FWW is not in her own box in the FWW's mind.

 

The sad part is that I have seen these traits a lot in the women I have had interactions with. It seems to be that the common perspective among women under 45 is that their men are treated like an accessory or a pet. I have dated a couple of women that by what they said and their actions I could see that they were anthropomorphizing me. Wow you talk about an insult. Their have been times that I have sat at a table with a group of women and kept my mouth shut and just listened. Hearing how they talked about their husbands and boyfriends was a very rude awaking for me. With most of these women it was very clear that the love for their spouses was only equal to what they could provide for them. I understand that not all women or FWW are like this, I am just saying that this is what I have largely witnessed myself.

 

However thank you everyone for you input and I look forward to more. Also any suggestions for me to help overcome my own fears is greatly appreciated.

[toolforgrowth]

My worry is that even finding that woman, such as you did, that I would not believe it and run from her.

 

I'd by lying if I said I didn't do this myself. My GF and I actually stopped seeing each other for around 7-8 months. Neither of us were ready for a relationship at the time; we were both still reeling from things that had happened in our failed marriages that carried over. I was very afraid of relationships and trusting things, and she had her share of issues also. It wasn't until we had both been single for a while and worked on ourselves that were able to reconnect on a much healthier level. I truly believe that we are both in a much better position to move forward now...but we're doing that slowly. Takes all the pressure off.

 

This fear is completely natural. Someday you'll be able to overcome it. The best advice I can give you is to not be afraid to go at the pace you're most comfortable with. Anyone who really wanted to be with you would understand that and allow things to flow naturally.

 

I can see were a since of expectation and duty verses doing it out of love or designer are major factors in this. Likewise the Madonna wh0re complex and fantasy land would also be major factors. Like any BH one of the things you would expect is that your wife to preform all these acts for you without question. On her side she sees it as she is being placed under your thumb. So it would be a problem that would keep building rather than being solved. The alpha lays and beta pays example I have seen is true with some women, very similar to the Madonna wh0re complex. She compartmentalizes her husband and her lover/s into different rolls in her life. The husband gets standard boring vanilla sex from her and is expected to maintain a certain lifestyle for her. The other men are expected to have that wild hot monkey sex with her. The husband never really gets seen as a human with sexual needs and wants. What really defines the Alpha lays and beta pays is that the beta will never be looked at as anything else than a provider. The beta husband may ask or request for the sexual favors she has given the OM, however they will never happen. Often times I have seen were the WW would dismiss the request and reason as just being insecure. The beta provider is expected to stay in his box and any feelings are dismissed because they do not matter. I have noticed myself that women who are caught up in the Alpha lays and beta pays are often very narcissistic.

 

There is so much win in this paragraph that I'm seeing stars. You described the exact situation that happened with me. I was the beta provider, and my xWW was extremely narcissistic. Looking back, I can see exactly when and why I became so beta: when i started to place her happiness before my own. It became all about her. And I allowed it to happen. That is a mistake that I will never make again, and if that means any relationship I'm currently in needs to end, then it will end. That would be preferable to the alternative (and deep down, our xWW's knew this too! And yet we put up with it, which made them disrespect us even more).

 

With all this being said, I would still think that any FWW that had been in IC would have changed their perspective and be more than willing to do these acts with their BH. In a case were the FWW did a threesome for her xOM I can see were most would say it is not a good idea for her to do that for her BH. However I would still think that some sort of middle ground could be reached on something like that. I would also think that if a FWW had performed sexual acts with the xOM that would be very damaging in a marriage that she would be doing what she could to raise the bar in other ways with her BH. Sadly this seems to almost never happen. From what I have noticed that this is largely to do with the FWW's perspective of her BH husband and also the BH's reaction. When the BH goes from demanding to begging then he is often times digging himself farther into that beta hole the FWW has placed him in.

I agree, especially during hysterical bonding. Which is something I've never experienced personally (the thought of touching my xWW has disgusted me ever since d-day), but I've read about it. And yes, begging for sex is always a very bad idea.

 

However if the BH is able to display confidence and show that the FWW does not have him in the right box, these sexual acts can still be off the table because then the FWW is not in her own box in the FWW's mind.

i disagree with this. After we split and my xWW was knee deep in her A, she pulled out some stops to try to seduce me once she began to suspect I was seeing someone (my GF, but didn't know it was her specifically). My counselor even agreed that she was trying to seduce me. I honestly have a feeling that I could have literally had my way with her if I had wanted. Nothing raises a man's sexual rank in a woman's eyes more than knowing she has competition.

 

The sad part is that I have seen these traits a lot in the women I have had interactions with. It seems to be that the common perspective among women under 45 is that their men are treated like an accessory or a pet. I have dated a couple of women that by what they said and their actions I could see that they were anthropomorphizing me. Wow you talk about an insult. Their have been times that I have sat at a table with a group of women and kept my mouth shut and just listened. Hearing how they talked about their husbands and boyfriends was a very rude awaking for me. With most of these women it was very clear that the love for their spouses was only equal to what they could provide for them. I understand that not all women or FWW are like this, I am just saying that this is what I have largely witnessed myself.

You are correct, this is very prevalent in today's society. However, you are also correct in that not all women are like this. I've elicited very interesting reactions from women by telling them that I will never allow a woman to have access to my bank accounts, co-sign on my mortgage, or in any way have any say in my finances beyond me paying my share of the household bills. And no marriage without a pre-nup. It's my money; I worked for it, and nobody has any claim to it but me. Bottom line: what's mine is mine, and what's hers is hers, for both income and debt. I will not finance so much as a pencil with another living being. I want a woman who wants to be with me and not my money, and I have no desire to split assets again should the need ever arise. I've lived the life of being married to a woman with that attitude, and if I've learned anything, it's that in this day and age a man's gotta protect himself and I have no interest in giving anyone a free ride. Most of them looked angry that I would dare say such a thing. Thankfully, my GF gets all of this and equally agrees, which makes things so much easier.

 

True story: there's a woman in my office building who's pregnant with her second child. Her husband is a SAHD. She said she devotes all of her time and attention to her current child and will continue to do so when the second baby is born. A buddy of mine who works with her said he disagrees, that in order for a family unit to function properly, the marriage should be placed first, and that healthy kids stem from their parents having a healthy marriage (and I TOTALLY agree with this). She looked at him and said, "My husband is a grown ass man, he can take care of himself."

 

Imagine the uproar if a husband told his wife, "You're a grown ass woman, you can take care of yourself." It's different when the shoe's on the other foot, isn't it?

 

Personally, that is exactly how I feel. I want a partner, not an obligation. And I'm so grateful for a woman who's independent, strong, can take care of herself, and chooses to be with me.

[veritas lux mea]

Before this gender stereo typing goes too crazy I would like to remind you two bonding males that perspective and what you are looking for go a long ways in seeing bad behaviour. I have seen women belittle their men in groups. I am not denying it. Though individualy these women would not all do so. And I have hears men belittle their wives. Even though individually they may not do that. The group setting bashing can get out of hand. Peer pressure isn't just a teenage thing. So for every observation made about women husband bashing, men are bashing their wives.

 

Just as not all women do this. Not all men do either. And many who do do it, don't really mean it. It is just an expected norm. Not a good one but expected.

 

Just as many men are cheating as women. So infidelity isn't a one gender only problem. For every man (you two for example) who doesn't ver cheat, there is a woman who never cheats either.

[atreides]

I am not sure i buy into all of this.... I mean as to say it is the "norm." First I know of many Affairs were the sex was described as less than thrilling, the OM could not satisfy himself or largely the WW or that it was only a few times... as details go for as much that can be said i suppose of what is revealed in A's

 

Clearly there is a percent of women that have done more with the AP and then there are those that have not.

 

Largely, I find it odd that there are many who do not sexually explore with their now wives or then fiancee/girlfriend... what is the conflict of why and how this occurs and is that part of the problem?

 

Is it part of the problem that this has to be asked as to "minimize the damage", do you realize how much is already assumed and then biased i that statement?

 

Lastly, this thread seems to be playing the role of the BS doing something wrong as to be part of the context for the infidelity, which is a travesty.... that squarely lies with the WS... so really is this thread in a way trying to find the traits of a "cheater?"

Edited March 21, 2014 by atreides