Whether or not to confess [Infidelity]

[fellini]

You've never had the choice to not be told.

Your wife isn't a mind reader.

She couldn't possibly hope to know whether or not you would prefer to live in the dark.

 

Those are truly unthought out words. You do not know my marriage. My wife (to my knowledge) or our way of communicating. I know that she is perfectly capable of making decisions about what things she thinks I need to know, or not know. And this has nothing to do with being a mind reader, but rather, sharing a life together for more than 15 years. What is unbelievable is that people who do not know me, and certainly nothing like my wife, think they know me better than myself, and what I think.

[JamesM]

All this talk about denial....

 

Reminds me of the AA thinking...if you say you are not an alcoholic, then you are in denial. So me....I say I am not an alcoholic...and must be even though I have one drink a week.

 

So if you deny being in denial.....you are in denial about being in denial. No one can accept the fact that denying something isn't the same as being in denial.

 

I can deny killing someone and be correct, but I can also be in denial due to shock or a mental illness about committing the murder and actually did it. So I can say that I don't want to know about any past affairs simply because I don't think the confession will actually help rebuild the marriage ...FOR ME AS THE BS. This does not mean I am in denial about the reality, but I simply am saying that if we are serious about dealing with issues and the affair is a sympton and not the real issue, then confessing the affair will not resolve the issues. It will only cloud what truly needs to be resolved.

 

Having said that, there are many times that a WS will confess simply for selfish reasons. Confession clears his or her conscience. The motive is not about bettering the marriage but simply about clearing his/her own mind and heart. And when confronted, the confession is simply said due to being caught.

 

Personally, I am saying that if an affair (or brief rendezvous or one night stand) is in the past, then there are times that moving forward can be better done by leaving it in the past.

[Owl]

I am one who hasn't (to the best of my knowledge) been cheated on. As stated before and after reading so many stories on LS, I still affirm that I don't want to know provided it was in the past and she regretted it.

 

 

How far in the past makes the difference for you?

 

She ended it an hour ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it yesterday, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it last week, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it two weeks ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it a month ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it six month ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it a year ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it five years ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

10? 20?

 

When does it become irrelevent to today, to right now?

 

Realize, I can understand what you're saying to a degree...I'm not sure I'd care to hear about something that happened 20 years ago myself.

 

But something that ended a year ago? Certainly.

 

When we have people here that are posting about having just recently (say less than a year) ending an affair...that's highly relevent to today's relationship, and the vast majority of folks would want to know since it DOES impact the current situation.

 

The choice to tell about an affair that ended five years ago with NC established ever since...could be different.

 

But the choice to tell or not really usually ends up in the hands of the WS, who is the most biased person to not to want to disclose the truth anyway...which makes an unbiased choice to tell or not highly unlikely.

[fellini]

All this talk about denial....

Having said that, there are many times that a WS will confess simply for selfish reasons. Confession clears his or her conscience. The motive is not about bettering the marriage but simply about clearing his/her own mind and heart. And when confronted, the confession is simply said due to being caught.

 

Exactly. Selfish reasons. In my case, a weakness. The inability to end her affair, so she told me about it so that I would make her end it. And of course to end it for her to end her guilt. All she had to do was LISTEN to her IC, or her best friend and confidant, and end it. But no, she had to involve me in her ****.

 

Personally, I am saying that if an affair (or brief rendezvous or one night stand) is in the past, then there are times that moving forward can be better done by leaving it in the past.

 

It doesnt even have to be in the past, it only has to be completely over (it can be an awareness while in bed with the AP) and understood by the WS. Not all WS's need their BS to wake them up. With just enough time in an A, they wake themselves up, realize that this new R has no future and more importantly, they don't want that future. They want back in 100% a marriage.

 

Some posters her think this is a joke. That only if a WS sees the pain, the suffering, the torture they have caused through confession, are they TRULY able to pass. This sounds like so much Catholic Confession to me. Why can't a WS just get back on track and forgive themselves for their absolute stupidity, and then return the wiser to the place they left. What difference does it make is a BS forgives or doesn't forgive if true healing begins for the WS when he/she forgives him/herself in order to improve.

[fellini]

As I said above, for me it isn't about time, its about the conscious realisation that this A has no future. And that the marriage has. This can happen even as the WS is lying in bed, for the last time, with their AP.

 

 

 

How far in the past makes the difference for you?

 

She ended it an hour ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it yesterday, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it last week, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it two weeks ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it a month ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it six month ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it a year ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

She ended it five years ago, and she regrets it. Would you want to know?

 

10? 20?

 

When does it become irrelevent to today, to right now?

 

Realize, I can understand what you're saying to a degree...I'm not sure I'd care to hear about something that happened 20 years ago myself.

 

But something that ended a year ago? Certainly.

 

When we have people here that are posting about having just recently (say less than a year) ending an affair...that's highly relevent to today's relationship, and the vast majority of folks would want to know since it DOES impact the current situation.

 

The choice to tell about an affair that ended five years ago with NC established ever since...could be different.

 

But the choice to tell or not really usually ends up in the hands of the WS, who is the most biased person to not to want to disclose the truth anyway...which makes an unbiased choice to tell or not highly unlikely.

[JamesM]

Very good questions, Owl.

 

How far in the past makes the difference for you?

When does it become irrelevent to today, to right now?

 

And to answer that question...when it DOES become irrelevant to today. When that is...I cannot say. It depends on a number of factors.

 

If my wife regretted it and was able to move and decided that our marriage was important enough to rebuild and could do so without letting the affair effect her ability to rebuild, then that is probably when I can say that I don't want to know. Yes, living in ignorance may be better.

 

If she tells me simply to get it off her chest and is not doing so with the purpose of bettering our marriage, then I don't want to know.

 

If she tells me because that is the only way she and I can rebuild our marriage, then as painful as it is, it must be dealt with.

 

If it is a symptom of our bad marriage and not the cause, then perhaps it is better left in the past and unsaid. If it is the cause, then it must be revealed and resolved.

 

Realize, I can understand what you're saying to a degree...I'm not sure I'd care to hear about something that happened 20 years ago myself.

 

But something that ended a year ago? Certainly.

 

Really? If it isn't necessary to rebuilding the marriage, why?

 

When we have people here that are posting about having just recently (say less than a year) ending an affair...that's highly relevent to today's relationship, and the vast majority of folks would want to know since it DOES impact the current situation.

 

And we have people here who have begun rebuilding their marriage and then out of the blue, the spouse feels the need to unload about an affair. The purpose of the confession is only to feel better. And the marriage is torn apart again needlessly. We have people who have lived happily in their marriage, and then a spouse tells of an affair a year ago or ten years ago. Suddenly, they no longer love that person and the marriage seems to be a lie....when it isn't.

 

Isn't the past better left there?

 

 

But the choice to tell or not really usually ends up in the hands of the WS, who is the most biased person to not to want to disclose the truth anyway...which makes an unbiased choice to tell or not highly unlikely.

 

The choice is with the WS always unless the past is discovered. Unfortunately, a WS cannot ask a BS if he or she wants to know, so the WS will have to decide. And sadly, not many WSs tell for unselfish reasons. Most tell because they were discovered or they want to free themselves of the guilt. And doing so only tears apart a marriage and family. Who gets hurt in the long run? Everyone no matter the results.

[Owl]

Very good questions, Owl.

 

Thanks, and thanks for not taking it as a personal attack.

 

And to answer that question...when it DOES become irrelevant to today. When that is...I cannot say. It depends on a number of factors.

 

If my wife regretted it and was able to move and decided that our marriage was important enough to rebuild and could do so without letting the affair effect her ability to rebuild, then that is probably when I can say that I don't want to know. Yes, living in ignorance may be better.

 

If she tells me simply to get it off her chest and is not doing so with the purpose of bettering our marriage, then I don't want to know.

 

I can understand that last point to a degree. If she doesn't want to better the marriage...then simply put, shouldn't that be cause to end the marriage?

 

If she tells me because that is the only way she and I can rebuild our marriage, then as painful as it is, it must be dealt with.

 

If it is a symptom of our bad marriage and not the cause, then perhaps it is better left in the past and unsaid. If it is the cause, then it must be revealed and resolved.

 

I simply do not believe that infidelity is a symptom only...infidelity is both symptom and cause. It's like a high fever during illness...left untreated, high fever is a 'symptom' that will kill the patient. It has to be treated right alongside the underlying cause (infection, for example). Ignore it, treat the infection itself, and the patient could die long before the infection has the chance to clear.

 

Infidelity has the same effect on a marriage. It may be a symptom, but it's one that has to be addressed directly.

 

Really? If it isn't necessary to rebuilding the marriage, why?

 

As I stated above....from my viewpoint, it is absolutely critical to rebuilding a marriage successfully...always.

 

And we have people here who have begun rebuilding their marriage and then out of the blue, the spouse feels the need to unload about an affair. The purpose of the confession is only to feel better. And the marriage is torn apart again needlessly. We have people who have lived happily in their marriage, and then a spouse tells of an affair a year ago or ten years ago. Suddenly, they no longer love that person and the marriage seems to be a lie....when it isn't.

 

Isn't the past better left there?

 

Not if it has direct effect on the present, or the future.

 

As many have stated, infidelity is a 'deal-breaker'. Given that, I simply do not understand how someone can view it as a deal breaker and yet insist that its so ONLY if they're told about it.

 

I prefer a relationship built on truth, and honesty. I don't want one built on hidden secrets, lies by ommission, and by keeping my head in the sand to avoid knowing things that might hurt me.

 

Get them out in the open, address them, or identify them as deal breakers and find someone who more closely matches your own moral compass.

 

The choice is with the WS always unless the past is discovered. Unfortunately, a WS cannot ask a BS if he or she wants to know, so the WS will have to decide. And sadly, not many WSs tell for unselfish reasons. Most tell because they were discovered or they want to free themselves of the guilt. And doing so only tears apart a marriage and family. Who gets hurt in the long run? Everyone no matter the results.

 

But are the hurt because the BS was told...or were they hurt because the WS cheated?

 

Who really is to blame for the pain here?

 

Sure...people are hurt by affairs...I certainly was.

 

But being able to address it, deal with it, deal with the causes of it, and make changes and improvements in our marriage based off of what I learned as a result have greatly improved my marriage from where it would have been had I not known about it.

[ThatMan]

What is unbelievable is that people who do not know me, and certainly nothing like my wife, think they know me better than myself, and what I think.

Maybe it'll be a good idea to forget about denial entirely and look at the situation differently.

 

Ask yourself how would a mature person handle what you are experiencing right now? I'm not sure the question is whether or not it's mature/immature to be left in the dark, but instead, how can you be mature in your thoughts and actions regarding this recent situation? What does handling this in a mature way look like to you?

 

Does a mature person handle difficult by assessing the situation to make a decision that's good for their own health?

Does a mature person let other people decide what's best for them?

[KathyM]

When an affair is not disclosed, the underlying reasons for the affair are not dealt with openly by both parties (WS and BS). This means that those underlying reasons will continue to cause problems in the marriage, and the marriage will continue to be at risk of an affair in the future. Also, by not disclosing, the WS has suffered no real consequences for the affair and learns that he can get away with it, which also makes it more likely that he will engage in infidelity in the future. An undisclosed affair also creates a wall between the WS and BS that does not lead to true emotional intimacy and honesty. Huge secrets like this, kept from a loved one, often takes a toll on the marriage, and often manifests itself into other dysfunction in the relationship.

[JamesM]

Thanks, and thanks for not taking it as a personal attack.

 

I know where you come from.

 

I can understand that last point to a degree. If she doesn't want to better the marriage...then simply put, shouldn't that be cause to end the marriage?

 

No, my point was that if the motive to confess is selfish, then it is better to keep it quiet. It does not mean she doesn't want to better the marriage.

 

I simply do not believe that infidelity is a symptom only...infidelity is both symptom and cause. It's like a high fever during illness...left untreated, high fever is a 'symptom' that will kill the patient. It has to be treated right alongside the underlying cause (infection, for example). Ignore it, treat the infection itself, and the patient could die long before the infection has the chance to clear.

 

Actually, you can give a patient antibiotics and have the fever go away with the infection without treating the fever. The assumption is that the cheating can be compared to a life threatening high fever, when it could be related to a lower grade fever.

 

Infidelity has the same effect on a marriage. It may be a symptom, but it's one that has to be addressed directly.

 

I would have to disagree that this is always the case. Besides, too often (and I see it here alot) the affair which is actually a symptom, becomes the issue and then nothing truly gets resolved, causing the marriage to breakup.

 

But are the hurt because the BS was told...or were they hurt because the WS cheated?

 

I will answer this with a question....would they be hurt if never told?

 

 

If the affair is treated as a symptom and both individuals look at what caused the affair (and not treat the affair as a choice by the WS with no connection to the state of the marriage), then it is good to confess.

 

However, my opinion is that the marriage can be fixed (sometimes... but certainly not all times) without disclosure of the affair.

 

The question is....is the affair compared to a cancer that must be surgically cut out before the body can heal, or can it be compared to a headache that will go away when the source of the discomfort is resolved (ie hunger, high blood pressure).

[JamesM]

When an affair is not disclosed, the underlying reasons for the affair are not dealt with openly by both parties (WS and BS).

 

Not necessarily true. If the reason for cheating (ie sex) is resolved, then the desire for extramarital sex is gone. The affair does not have to be disclosed to resolve the sexless issue.

 

This means that those underlying reasons will continue to cause problems in the marriage, and the marriage will continue to be at risk of an affair in the future.

 

I would disagree. Again, if the issue is resolved, then the desire is taken away.

 

Besides, EVERY marriage is at risk for an affair. To say that once a cheater always a cheater is true is to say that once divorced always will divorce is true. Just because someone chose divorce instead of resolving the marriage once does not mean they will leave the next marriage any easier, does it?

 

Also, by not disclosing, the WS has suffered no real consequences for the affair and learns that he can get away with it, which also makes it more likely that he will engage in infidelity in the future.

 

Maybe. Depends on the situation. Again, the once a cheater, always a cheater thought.

 

An undisclosed affair also creates a wall between the WS and BS that does not lead to true emotional intimacy and honesty.

 

Again, depends on the person. If it is an affair that involves another person in an emotional and lengthy relationship, perhaps. If it is a one night stand all about sex, then I don't agree.

 

But if it does, then the reason for confessing is guilt which is selfish. The BS has no clue about the cheating and it only affects the WS.

 

Huge secrets like this, kept from a loved one, often takes a toll on the marriage, and often manifests itself into other dysfunction in the relationship.

 

Again, depends on the "hugeness" of it. See above.

[Owl]

No, my point was that if the motive to confess is selfish, then it is better to keep it quiet. It does not mean she doesn't want to better the marriage.

 

Even things done for selfish reasons can have a positive outcome for everyone. Just because it was done for a selfish reason that doesn't negate the possibility (or even probability) of a positive result.

 

Actually, you can give a patient antibiotics and have the fever go away with the infection without treating the fever. The assumption is that the cheating can be compared to a life threatening high fever, when it could be related to a lower grade fever.

 

Note I said "high grade fever". Granted, a low level fever likely requires no additional treatment.

 

I'd state that from my own experience, and that of all the folks we've seen posting here (to include yourself), it seems to me that infidelity is more comparable to a high grade fever/cancer than a lesser concern.

 

If it were a lesser concern...why wouldn't you care if she told you? If it doesn't matter that it happened...why avoid being aware of it? If it's not a big deal, then why not let her confess, even if it is just to ease her guilt...it'll make her feel better, and it's no big deal, right?

 

I will answer this with a question....would they be hurt if never told?

 

My experience is...yes! They still suffered a bad period in their marriage, in their relationship, for which they have no true explanation or understanding of.

 

Additionally, there's no onus for the WS to undergo any true introspection...or change...if the BS remains unaware. The WS is only going to look at the affair as much as it is comfortable to do so...which means they'll probably never spend much effort understanding WHY they did it, nor changing their own behaviors that led to it. Additionally, if it remains untold, and they don't make changes...it greatly increases the odds of it becoming their recourse AGAIN if they feel like doing so later.

 

So yes, the marriage will suffer even if the affair is never disclosed.

 

If the affair is treated as a symptom and both individuals look at what caused the affair (and not treat the affair as a choice by the WS with no connection to the state of the marriage), then it is good to confess.

 

However, my opinion is that the marriage can be fixed (sometimes... but certainly not all times) without disclosure of the affair.

 

The question is....is the affair compared to a cancer that must be surgically cut out before the body can heal, or can it be compared to a headache that will go away when the source of the discomfort is resolved (ie hunger, high blood pressure).

 

See above. If it's a minor headache...then why not let her confess? Why not open that door for free communication? If it's not a big deal...then being aware of it should be no big deal. Since being aware of it is a big deal to you, that indicates to me that even you actually DO feel that it's more than just a minor inconvenience.

 

And if the affair isn't addressed...it can't possibly be dealt with or recovered from.

[veritas lux mea]

I will admit I hate all these accusations that confessing is selfish. I had an affair. That was selfish. BH was my best friend. How could I kiss him and let him inside me knowing I had betrayed him. How could we share out innermost feelings with one another while I was holding back one of the biggest lies I could have against him. It may be selfish of me to want a fully honest and intimate marriage at the cost of no marriage at all. But it is also selfish to ask someone who is dying inside from their wrong doings to merely swallow their guilt. I was obviously not the sort of person who could keep major betrayals a secret forever.

 

 

I am sure there are one time cheaters or even one affair cheaters but from all the stories they are rare. Every WS on here who justifies not telling keeps coming back saying how they broke NC. If you are weak enough to have an affair you usually aren't strong enough to end it on your own.

[KathyM]

Not necessarily true. If the reason for cheating (ie sex) is resolved, then the desire for extramarital sex is gone. The affair does not have to be disclosed to resolve the sexless issue.

But how is that issue going to be resolved (lack of sex) without disclosure of the affair? Do you think it will miraculously just change on its own? That suddenly the withholding spouse will decide to change her attitude about sex for no reason at all? Just on a whim? What about the men who cheat because they want more variety in sex partners? Do you think that is suddenly going to go away permanently, just on its own? No, likely those types of men who believe they need variety will just repeat the infidelity again at a later time. The underlying issues that led to an affair need to be dealt with. It can't just be swept under the rug, or it will likely lead to infidelity in the future. Both partners need to be on the same page about improving the marriage (if the marriage was the issue), or supporting the WS in his path of treatment for his underlying issues that led to the infidelity. If he never gets treatment, the issues that contributed to the infidelity will still be there.

 

 

I would disagree. Again, if the issue is resolved, then the desire is taken away.

My point was that the issue is not going to be resolved unless both parties are aware of the reality of the situation.

Besides, EVERY marriage is at risk for an affair. To say that once a cheater always a cheater is true is to say that once divorced always will divorce is true. Just because someone chose divorce instead of resolving the marriage once does not mean they will leave the next marriage any easier, does it?

If issues are not openly dealt with that led to the affair, those issues will likely not be resolved, and will contribute to the likelihood that infidelity will happen in the future. Just like someone who divorces for other reasons than infidelity, if those reasons that contributed to the breakdown of the marriage are not dealt with, the person is likely to repeat them in subsequent marriages, which is one of the reasons why second, third, plus, marriages are more likely to end in divorce, because issues were not dealt with that led to the demise of the first marriage, and they bring those same issues to the subsequent marriage.

 

 

Maybe. Depends on the situation. Again, the once a cheater, always a cheater thought.

People who have cheated in the past, if their issues are not dealt with that caused them to cheat, are more likely to cheat in the future than someone who does not have those issues.

 

 

Again, depends on the person. If it is an affair that involves another person in an emotional and lengthy relationship, perhaps. If it is a one night stand all about sex, then I don't agree.

 

But if it does, then the reason for confessing is guilt which is selfish. The BS has no clue about the cheating and it only affects the WS.

Guilt is not selfish. Guilt is the natural consequence of doing something which you know is wrong. I think it's very important and cathartic to own up to the guilt, confess it, and open up the opportunity to be forgiven for the wrong. And as I mentioned in my prior post, oftentimes guilt, not confessed, will manifest itself in other ways in the relationship, which are negative.

Again, depends on the "hugeness" of it. See above.

All infidelity is a huge secret, whether it's a ONS or a longer-term affair. All infidelity is a huge betrayal of trust. For some reason, you seem to think that a ONS is not that big of a deal. I don't agree. It's a huge deal that also stems from underlying issues within the marriage and/or within the WS himself.

[fellini]

There is no handbook to what a mature person has to do.

And I certainly wouldn't want to live up to YOUR definition of maturity because that makes it a unresolvable dilemna.

 

Your definition of mature includes "not letting other people decide what is best for me") But if I accept your definition, then I am doing just that. You tell me what it means to be mature, (a definition I did not share) and now by accepting YOUR DEFINITION - I become the very person that your definition excludes from membership.

 

Your approach to telling others THAT they are in denial, THAT if they let others decide what is best for them, is immature, smacks of Life of Brian:

 

Brian

: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!

The Crowd:

Yes! We're all individuals!

Brian:

You're all different!

The Crowd:

Yes, we ARE all different!

 

Ask yourself if its really true that as social beings its possible, even DESIRABLE that as a community we should live our lives entirely not letting other people decide what's best for us?

 

There are times, there are circumstances and there are key moments in our lives when we trust others to make decision for us, and for the better. Both inside and outside the matrimonial home.

 

It's a typical strategy in LS for some posters to POUNCE on a statement made by another gets exaggerated in its application.

 

I didn't want to know about my wife's affair. Period. This does not mean I don't EVER want to know ANYTHING about ANYTHING for the rest of my life!

 

You cannot tag a definition of what is mature this way, Im sorry.

 

To bring it to the present topic, for example, how many times have we heard the dilemna from a BS:

 

Am I a coward for staying? Or am I a coward for leaving?

Am I showing my strength in living up to my mantra "infidelity is a deal-breaker" or am I showing my strength staying in this mess and trying to resolve it in spite of my reflex to divorce?

 

or how about:

 

Am I behaving maturely by NOT wanting to obsess about an infidelity that had little or nothing to do with me, and I recognise my S is a flawed human being just like me, or am i immature by not wanting to deal with the mess she created.

 

There is no black and white here, Im sorry. You need to be more flexible and you certainly need to have more faith that a man of 50 + years, with 4 university degrees, who has been through sufficient numbers of relationships, and who is in a marriage of 18 years, has managed to provide for a downs syndrome child for 25 years and another for 9 actually knows what he is doing, and especially is able to think for himself. None of us is perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe it'll be a good idea to forget about denial entirely and look at the situation differently.

 

Ask yourself how would a mature person handle what you are experiencing right now? I'm not sure the question is whether or not it's mature/immature to be left in the dark, but instead, how can you be mature in your thoughts and actions regarding this recent situation? What does handling this in a mature way look like to you?

 

Does a mature person handle difficult by assessing the situation to make a decision that's good for their own health?

Does a mature person let other people decide what's best for them?