Poppy's sister Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Hi, I am new to LS, and want some advice on what others think might be going on with my situation. Background: 3 year affair, met online, meant to be for fun , fell deeply in love, him first, me a bit later. Never once discussed leaving to be together, though we had some vague conversations about "forever" and both secretly day dreamed about the possibility. We are both married with 2 children each. Ages 14 to 8 . D day for him 12 months ago, we talked that day, and he admitted he thought about a life with me, how this might be his chance , I said I had similar thoughts. That first week we talked more about this, he stood to lose his children , she would take them to other part of country and he would have second weekends only. That was too hard , so we agreed he would go home and try to repair things. I said goodbye , well, within 3 days we were txting. We kept low contact for a few months, often I would lash out and be vile, he kept going despite that. We met again after 4 months and very slowly pieced it back together, it has been a hell of a roller coaster, good times and bad times. We get an hr or so together for breakfast or lunch every week and in the 12 months have managed a handful of evenings, but only when his wife is at their holiday home and even then he goes home by 19:30. There are a million things he has done that make me believe he loves me. Recently after a particularly heartbreaking time, we talked frankly , we agreed that we are both staying in marriages to try and provide normal , happy homes for our children, and we would work with all the restrictions to achieve this. He said he knew a second d day and his marriage would be over, but the small risks we take are worth it. I have offered over and over to stop this affair if he wants to. He doesn't. So I have just presumed we are on same page , we love each other, I am not desparately unhappy at home and we will sit it out until children are older and then we can decide if we want to be togther properly and plan it . However since Christmas his wife has been more , I am not sure what word to use, do not want to be blasted by BS, controlling, and obsessed again with his phones and were he is. So restrictions tighter . He has not said out loud he loves me since d day, he has occasional written it , and he talks about and writes "forever" often. It is linked to our nicknames for each other. I am getting unsure and insecure and need to hear it....so after being upset last week, he phoned and asked me to tell him what was wrong, so I did. And his reply was " I am really struggling with everything, I am not used to not having a goal and a plan to get to it, I can't say it, because I don't know what it means to me, you, us, I am being asked by others as well, ( I presume he meant wife) and I don't know what it means to them. I spend every day thinking about how to separate my life, financially what I could afford to do ( we are both high earners ) what that would mean financially . I am wondering why I am staying to be emoticon ally beaten up everyday but right now I just don't what it all means "He went on to talk about how hard it is to not be able to see me for longer, how he hates leaving me after an hour, how it kills him that when I am upset we won't be able to kiss and make up at the end of the day like a normal couple. I have plainly told him I love him and I want at some point to have a normal,life with him. He has no doubts or insecurities on that front. However, I have never put a time frame on this, I have never asked him to leave his wife, I have supported his decision and infact encouraged it, to stay for his children. All I wanted was some reassurance we were in this togther with the same reasons.We ended the conversation with him saying the most important thing is we keep talking so we can figure it out together.... But I am so confused.....and feel like I might be a stupid cliche ....falling for all this....but why continue something which fundamentally is risky, does not involve much sex anymore and often makes us both upset , if he didn't love me? Is it men equal saying I love you, means moving the relationship on ? Is he just trying to figure out how he gets out of his marriage ? If he wants to stay married and keep me....well thats what we are doing now and I have never said that would change..... Anyone's thoughts welcome X Edited March 17, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
PurpleCardigan Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 Hi, I am new to LS, and want some advice on what others think might be going on with my situation. Background: 3 year affair, met online, meant to be for fun , fell deeply in love, him first, me a bit later. Never once discussed leaving to be together, though we had some vague conversations about "forever" and both secretly day dreamed about the possibility. We are both married with 2 children each. Ages 14 to 8 . D day for him 12 months ago, we talked that day, and he admitted he thought about a life with me, how this might be his chance , I said I had similar thoughts. That first week we talked more about this, he stood to lose his children , she would take them to other part of country and he would have second weekends only. That was too hard , so we agreed he would go home and try to repair things. I said goodbye , well, within 3 days we were txting. We kept low contact for a few months, often I would lash out and be vile, he kept going despite that. We met again after 4 months and very slowly pieced it back together, it has been a hell of a roller coaster, good times and bad times. We get an hr or so together for breakfast or lunch every week and in the 12 months have managed a handful of evenings, but only when his wife is at their holiday home and even then he goes home by 19:30. There are a million things he has done that make me believe he loves me. Recently after a particularly heartbreaking time, we talked frankly , we agreed that we are both staying in marriages to try and provide normal , happy homes for our children, and we would work with all the restrictions to achieve this. He said he knew a second d day and his marriage would be over, but the small risks we take are worth it. I have offered over and over to stop this affair if he wants to. He doesn't. So I have just presumed we are on same page , we love each other, I am not desparately unhappy at home and we will sit it out until children are older and then we can decide if we want to be togther properly and plan it . However since Christmas his wife has been more , I am not sure what word to use, do not want to be blasted by BS, controlling, and obsessed again with his phones and were he is. So restrictions tighter . He has not said out loud he loves me since d day, he has occasional written it , and he talks about and writes "forever" often. It is linked to our nicknames for each other. I am getting unsure and insecure and need to hear it....so after being upset last week, he phoned and asked me to tell him what was wrong, so I did. And his reply was " I am really struggling with everything, I am not used to not having a goal and a plan to get to it, I can't say it, because I don't know what it means to me, you, us, I am being asked by others as well, ( I presume he meant wife) and I don't know what it means to them. I spend every day thinking about how to separate my life, financially what I could afford to do ( we are both high earners ) what that would mean financially . I am wondering why I am staying to be emoticon ally beaten up everyday but right now I just don't what it all means" He went on to talk about how hard it is to not be able to see me for longer, how he hates leaving me after an hour, how it kills him that when I am upset we won't be able to kiss and make up at the end of the day like a normal couple. I have plainly told him I love him and I want at some point to have a normal,life with him. He has no doubts or insecurities on that front. However, I have never put a time frame on this, I have never asked him to leave his wife, I have supported his decision and infact encouraged it, to stay for his children. All I wanted was some reassurance we were in this togther with the same reasons. We ended the conversation with him saying the most important thing is we keep talking so we can figure it out together.... But I am so confused.....and feel like I might be a stupid cliche ....falling for all this....but why continue something which fundamentally is risky, does not involve much sex anymore and often makes us both upset , if he didn't love me? Is it men equal saying I love you, means moving the relationship on ? Is he just trying to figure out how he gets out of his marriage ? If he wants to stay married and keep me....well thats what we are doing now and I have never said that would change..... Anyone's thoughts welcome X With my xMM, he said similar things about love, future, being confused, wanting to stay for his kids but still talking trying to figure it out --- and we are well on our way to crashing and burning as "friends" after a period of NC after the relationship ended. We have the same circular conversation over and over, and it hurts us both. To me, these actions are classic conflict avoidance and the inability to make a decision. However, only YOU know the answers here and they come from asking him DIRECTLY instead of presuming. Also, be clear with what you want -- on the one hand you are encouraging him to stay married and be with his kids but yet you are clearly wanting some kind of reassurance and timeline for him to leave. Those two things are incongruous. Do you only want a long-term affair to keep both your marriages or do you want to be married to him? I learned the most from my ex when we actually talked about the hard stuff. Those conversations were rare and, in hindsight, we *might* be in a better place if they took place more often. The more the both of us presumed, the more we were not the same page. Ask the tough questions on timeline, love for his spouse/kids, open marriages, etc., and really listen to the answers. Sidenote: I should have listened better...I might not be hurting so much right now. So take my comment, with that lens. YMMV.
jwi71 Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 That first week we talked more about this, he stood to lose his children , she would take them to other part of country and he would have second weekends only. That was too hard , so we agreed he would go home and try to repair things. His lawyer told him this? I find it highly unlikely that she can legally, once D is filed, move the kids w/o his consent for the express purpose of keeping him from them. In my state, she would be committing several crimes - jeopardizing her own custody actually if memory serves me well. Actually, does he have a lawyer? Sought real legal advice? Have you? I said goodbye , well, within 3 days we were txting. We kept low contact for a few months, often I would lash out and be vile, he kept going despite that. We met again after 4 months and very slowly pieced it back together, it has been a hell of a roller coaster, good times and bad times. We get an hr or so together for breakfast or lunch every week and in the 12 months have managed a handful of evenings, but only when his wife is at their holiday home and even then he goes home by 19:30. There are a million things he has done that make me believe he loves me. Recently after a particularly heartbreaking time, we talked frankly , we agreed that we are both staying in marriages to try and provide normal , happy homes for our children, and we would work with all the restrictions to achieve this. What things has he done that say "I love you"? Sneaking a quick text in every now and again when the spouse is away? The odd breakfast? Evening? A quickie at a hotel? He said he knew a second d day and his marriage would be over, but the small risks we take are worth it. Well, he can't then complain, when he gets busted again, that she "takes him to the cleaners" now can he? And lets hope she never figures out a way to contact your H...then you're busted too. However since Christmas his wife has been more , I am not sure what word to use, do not want to be blasted by BS, controlling, and obsessed again with his phones and were he is. So restrictions tighter . Sounds like she is on to him again. Gotta be extra careful in our secret rendezvous lest my W catch me...don't want to get caught again. Normal behavior from the BS. He has not said out loud he loves me since d day, he has occasional written it , and he talks about and writes "forever" often. So how do you know he loves you if he has stopped saying it? I mean,, its one thing to text it...another to look into your eyes and say it. I spend every day thinking about how to separate my life, financially what I could afford to do ( we are both high earners ) what that would mean financially . I'm thinking not. Step 1 is to hire a lawyer. Step 2, if applicable, hire a CPA. Step 3 is locate counselors for the kids. Step 4 is, with their professional advice in hand, file for D and move forward. Has he done ANY of that? Or is it more of a wishful thinking? I have plainly told him I love him and I want at some point to have a normal,life with him. He has no doubts or insecurities on that front. Maybe you should file for D first to show him how much you love him - how sincere you are. I'm sure he has had thoughts of - what if I file and she doesn't? So, file first...give him something concrete to hold on to....What's stopping you? However, I have never put a time frame on this, I have never asked him to leave his wife, I have supported his decision and infact encouraged it, to stay for his children. All I wanted was some reassurance we were in this togther with the same reasons.We ended the conversation with him saying the most important thing is we keep talking so we can figure it out together.... Do you want to be together NOW or in ten years? Do you think your spouse's will be more or less angry knowing that each of you lied and strung them along for a decade - with this plan of yours? Isnt it more "fair" to file now, be together NOW, and allow your spouses the same chance for love? And not "Steal" ten years when they could have cried, healed and hopefully found a person who TRULY loves them? Really, it sounds FAR better to D now, be happy now...whilst simultaneously NOT stealing ten years of life from the spouses...what's wrong with that? And...go talk to a family counselor about the impact of D on kids. Its virtually NIL provided everyone puts the kids first. I strongly encourage you to have a few meetings with trained, experienced counselors - I'm virtually positive they echo what I said. But I am so confused.....and feel like I might be a stupid cliche ....falling for all this....but why continue something which fundamentally is risky, does not involve much sex anymore and often makes us both upset , if he didn't love me? How do you know he loves you - he isn't even saying it anymore? Is it men equal saying I love you, means moving the relationship on ? We men will say ANYTHING for nookie. Is he just trying to figure out how he gets out of his marriage ? Has he taken any real steps to getting out? What about you? What steps have YOU taken? See above... D-day as the perfect chance to leave - and he didn't. Further, you haven't even filed for D yet (or maybe you forget to mention it). I'm seeing a generic affair with lots of future faking. No one is actually doing anything to be with the other (based on this post anyway). I predict he gets busted again...more drama...rinse and repeat. Maybe you get busted too. Lots of stress, pain and heartache. My opinion. 1
sunburned Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 Poppy's Sister, I read something really insightful a couple of months ago here that might be helpful to you. The poster who goes by "awkward" said: Married men looking to date do not have the same type of dating pool that single men have. They have a liability that many women just can't overlook. But they do have something that a lot of single men don't, and that is the ability to quickly be committed to another woman. They can jump right in with the ILY's etc. because they don't have to follow through. At the end, they get to say to the other woman, well you knew I was married. This was in January. I'm sorry I couldn't copy the original thread link for some reason.
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