Strongly considering giving up on girls

[SongOfMySelf]

I agree with the original poster. He should give up on meeting women. Its just not worth it, all the time, effort, money, and emotion he'll spend trying to find one woman who'll give him the time of the day.

 

Why should he give up? Well, to start with. When I was in college I was surrounded by the vast majority of the student body which happened to be female, but the women were in competition for the better-looking/taller man, and they'd rather be one in a dozen to the more attractive man than to the be the only one in the life of a more normal looking/average height/short man.

 

He doesn't even need to be one of those guys who chases after the more attractive women to be rejected.

 

It could be a case of aiming for the stars when you don't have the qualifications to become the next Neil Armstrong, but I would watch very respectful young men be shot down by very average/below average women for no reason at all, other than there was no sexual attraction felt for the guy, by the young woman.

 

Most of the men I met in college who were successful with women(due to looks: Charm and charisma will get you many lady friends, but you won't get any girlfriend or hooks-up.) are still quite in demand now that we are in our 30s, regardless of how much money they have or not, whereas the average-looking/short men who couldn't get women in college still can't get women.

 

Sure, many of them could find a wife. But there are women who marry their own dogs, and many, many women are more interested in a second paycheck than they are in having a husband, and as you grow older the vast majority of decent women(no emotional issues, no abortions, no stds, no promiscuity, women looking for marriage etc) dwindle more and and more, resulting in the existence of very few women past the age of 28 who are worthy of investiment, and with so many women having stds and mental problems it becomes quite risky to have casual sex if you ever manage to have that.

 

I know that its terrible to be 20-something and to spend your days surrounded by women who even if they are below average can be perceived by the average man as to be very attractive, and they don't make it easy when they go around in yoga pants and with their assets in plain view, but trust me on this.

 

As you grow older your sexual desires smoulder and die away. I'm in my 30's and I've gone back for a Masters. I am surrounded by very attractive women and I don't feel anything. I don't desire them. I don't notice women at all, and now that women are approaching their 30s and are looking for a guy to marry, many of them are beginning to become aware of my existence(More like my bank account) and are trying to get me to approach, but my sexual desire has retired, probably moved itself away to a tropical island, and my body will be doing the same 10 years from now when I manage to retire at the age of 42 after decades of saving, to spend the rest of my days fishing, drinking expensive whiskey, and readng books .

 

I'm going to give you two pieces of advice.

 

The most important is that many, if not most women very much enjoy male attention, regardless of the guy who gives it to them. They'll provoke the guy, try to get him to dote on them and to provide that attention. don't pay attention to ''signals of interest''. does she blush when you compliment her, when you flirt with her? She's enjoying the attention, not the man who is giving it to her. She'll be interested in the tall, broad-shouldered man who barely speaks, not in you.

 

Its biological. Women desire tall men, or men who have social dominance over other men, they very rarely feel genuine sexual desire for men who are average, and the only way they'll feel sexual desire for below average(short/skinny) men is if the guy is called Tom Cruise.

 

My second piece of advice is to not get married. Many of the men who aren't sexually attractive finally find a woman who is willing to marry them, but they never receive any respect, are denied sex, are stuck paying bills, and will have their butts handled to the divorce court when the woman grows bored and decides to divorce him and to take him to the cleaners via alimony and child-support.

 

Every time I wonder if I'm missing on anything by not dating or talking to women(I have a group of female friends from High school, other than that I'm not interesting in giving free attention/protection etc) I meet up with a married man and more often than not I go home to count my blessings for being born short .

 

Honestly, a lot of people just meet their SO at work, through friends, at some function. I'm questioning the value of so much cold approaching.

 

I wouldn't advice looking for women in your workplace. Sexual harrasment charges, for one. Very Awkward if you date her and the relationship ends, second. Social groups are a terrible place to try and find a girlfriend. I still have my high school lady friends in my life, and I would meet many different women by hanging out with my friends, and most of the talks was how they hooked-up with x guy(Think of Randy Orton from the WWE) and how hot this and that guy was. Of course all of the guys were the elite of the male population, the women commenting on the men ranged from below-average to cute.

 

I interacted with these women because they were terrific friends but it does get a bit tiring after you spend your time hearing about guys, and if you think guys are more sexually active than women you are dearly mistaken. Men have much higher levels of Testosterne, but women have enormous access to very good-looking men and they take full advantage of it(as I would probably do if I had been born hot).

Edited March 22, 2014 by SongOfMySelf

[SongOfMySelf]

I have a friend who is, frankly, ugly and unkempt. He doesn't brush his teeth, rarely cuts his hair or shaves. He is 26 and *was* still a virgin up until a month ago. He had given up on girls and ever having sex.

 

He works in retail and at a leaving party for temps he made out with one of the female temps. She most certainly came onto him. He has zero confidence is his ability to attract women.

 

How did this happen? Because she saw him every day while he was in the zone, confident, dealing with the public.

 

He's been seeing her for about 6 weeks. She's into artsy films and they get together and watch different films and they are slowly falling into each other's world. He hasn't been out much recently because he's probably obsessed about this girl.

 

All he did was be available and, even without looking, he found someone. Imagine what you could do if you were proactive?

 

When I was 25 I was working in retail. There was this guy who worked in the next door store, he was obese, but tall. He was dating a cute, thin girl. She worked with him. It was a combination of the lack of men in that store/mall, the fact that he was tall, and that he didn't care about being rejected. Obviously he was dumped when a better-looking man showed up, but if the guy is interested in being a woman's back-up plan, be my guest, I guess.

[Ryan R.]

1. Don't beat yourself up. I didn't get laid until 21.

 

Ok.

 

2. Getting women has nothing to do with looks. It has all to do with being able to converse with them and bring them into your world.

Sounds believable.

 

3. Hit the gym hard and become an alpha male, albeit a nice one. Girls who say the want a sensitive guy, yada yada. It's all BS. They want a man who does manly things. Not a needy douche bag.

I go to the gym 3 or 4 days a week. I've been making some gains but it isn't enough.

 

I agree with the original poster. He should give up on meeting women. Its just not worth it, all the time, effort, money, and emotion he'll spend trying to find one woman who'll give him the time of the day.

 

If you say so.

 

Why should he give up? Well, to start with. When I was in college I was surrounded by the vast majority of the student body which happened to be female, but the women were in competition for the better-looking/taller man, and they'd rather be one in a dozen to the more attractive man than to the be the only one in the life of a more normal looking/average height/short man.

Well, according to my female friends and contemporaries, I'm above average looking and I'm 6'3 in height. So...

 

It could be a case of aiming for the stars when you don't have the qualifications to become the next Neil Armstrong, but I would watch very respectful young men be shot down by very average/below average women for no reason at all, other than there was no sexual attraction felt for the guy, by the young woman.

I'm not attracted to every girl I meet either.

 

Sure, many of them could find a wife. But there are women who marry their own dogs, and many, many women are more interested in a second paycheck than they are in having a husband, and as you grow older the vast majority of decent women(no emotional issues, no abortions, no stds, no promiscuity, women looking for marriage etc) dwindle more and and more, resulting in the existence of very few women past the age of 28 who are worthy of investiment, and with so many women having stds and mental problems it becomes quite risky to have casual sex if you ever manage to have that.

Yeah, well you seem to have your eyes on the wrong women. Of course it's risky to have sex. It's also risky to drive a car.

 

 

As you grow older your sexual desires smoulder and die away. I'm in my 30's and I've gone back for a Masters. I am surrounded by very attractive women and I don't feel anything. I don't desire them. I don't notice women at all, and now that women are approaching their 30s and are looking for a guy to marry, many of them are beginning to become aware of my existence(More like my bank account) and are trying to get me to approach, but my sexual desire has retired, probably moved itself away to a tropical island, and my body will be doing the same 10 years from now when I manage to retire at the age of 42 after decades of saving, to spend the rest of my days fishing, drinking expensive whiskey, and readng books .

The retirement sounds like a nice life but the rest sounds pretty sad.

 

The most important is that many, if not most women very much enjoy male attention, regardless of the guy who gives it to them. They'll provoke the guy, try to get him to dote on them and to provide that attention. don't pay attention to ''signals of interest''. does she blush when you compliment her, when you flirt with her? She's enjoying the attention, not the man who is giving it to her. She'll be interested in the tall, broad-shouldered man who barely speaks, not in you.

I am the tall, broad-shouldered man who barely speaks...

 

My second piece of advice is to not get married. Many of the men who aren't sexually attractive finally find a woman who is willing to marry them, but they never receive any respect, are denied sex, are stuck paying bills, and will have their butts handled to the divorce court when the woman grows bored and decides to divorce him and to take him to the cleaners via alimony and child-support.

Yeah because those guys sound like Average Joes with no testosterone. I am neither.

 

 

To be honest man, you sound really negative. I can be a bit pessimistic at times but never like this. You don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I don't know what you look like or how you act but you sound like you've never even talked to a female before. This whole thing makes you sound like a bitter virgin. I'm a virgin too but I've never expressed this bitterness.

 

If I ever get this bitter I will PM my address to someone on this forum so they can come to my apartment and shoot me dead point blank. **** that.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Ryan R.

[ThaWholigan]

There's life in the kid yet

[topaMAXX]

I agree with the original poster. He should give up on meeting women. Its just not worth it, all the time, effort, money, and emotion he'll spend trying to find one woman who'll give him the time of the day.

 

Why should he give up? Well, to start with. When I was in college I was surrounded by the vast majority of the student body which happened to be female, but the women were in competition for the better-looking/taller man, and they'd rather be one in a dozen to the more attractive man than to the be the only one in the life of a more normal looking/average height/short man.

 

He doesn't even need to be one of those guys who chases after the more attractive women to be rejected.

 

It could be a case of aiming for the stars when you don't have the qualifications to become the next Neil Armstrong, but I would watch very respectful young men be shot down by very average/below average women for no reason at all, other than there was no sexual attraction felt for the guy, by the young woman.

 

Most of the men I met in college who were successful with women(due to looks: Charm and charisma will get you many lady friends, but you won't get any girlfriend or hooks-up.) are still quite in demand now that we are in our 30s, regardless of how much money they have or not, whereas the average-looking/short men who couldn't get women in college still can't get women.

 

Sure, many of them could find a wife. But there are women who marry their own dogs, and many, many women are more interested in a second paycheck than they are in having a husband, and as you grow older the vast majority of decent women(no emotional issues, no abortions, no stds, no promiscuity, women looking for marriage etc) dwindle more and and more, resulting in the existence of very few women past the age of 28 who are worthy of investiment, and with so many women having stds and mental problems it becomes quite risky to have casual sex if you ever manage to have that.

 

I know that its terrible to be 20-something and to spend your days surrounded by women who even if they are below average can be perceived by the average man as to be very attractive, and they don't make it easy when they go around in yoga pants and with their assets in plain view, but trust me on this.

 

As you grow older your sexual desires smoulder and die away. I'm in my 30's and I've gone back for a Masters. I am surrounded by very attractive women and I don't feel anything. I don't desire them. I don't notice women at all, and now that women are approaching their 30s and are looking for a guy to marry, many of them are beginning to become aware of my existence(More like my bank account) and are trying to get me to approach, but my sexual desire has retired, probably moved itself away to a tropical island, and my body will be doing the same 10 years from now when I manage to retire at the age of 42 after decades of saving, to spend the rest of my days fishing, drinking expensive whiskey, and readng books .

 

I'm going to give you two pieces of advice.

 

The most important is that many, if not most women very much enjoy male attention, regardless of the guy who gives it to them. They'll provoke the guy, try to get him to dote on them and to provide that attention. don't pay attention to ''signals of interest''. does she blush when you compliment her, when you flirt with her? She's enjoying the attention, not the man who is giving it to her. She'll be interested in the tall, broad-shouldered man who barely speaks, not in you.

 

Its biological. Women desire tall men, or men who have social dominance over other men, they very rarely feel genuine sexual desire for men who are average, and the only way they'll feel sexual desire for below average(short/skinny) men is if the guy is called Tom Cruise.

 

My second piece of advice is to not get married. Many of the men who aren't sexually attractive finally find a woman who is willing to marry them, but they never receive any respect, are denied sex, are stuck paying bills, and will have their butts handled to the divorce court when the woman grows bored and decides to divorce him and to take him to the cleaners via alimony and child-support.

 

Every time I wonder if I'm missing on anything by not dating or talking to women(I have a group of female friends from High school, other than that I'm not interesting in giving free attention/protection etc) I meet up with a married man and more often than not I go home to count my blessings for being born short .

 

 

 

I wouldn't advice looking for women in your workplace. Sexual harrasment charges, for one. Very Awkward if you date her and the relationship ends, second. Social groups are a terrible place to try and find a girlfriend. I still have my high school lady friends in my life, and I would meet many different women by hanging out with my friends, and most of the talks was how they hooked-up with x guy(Think of Randy Orton from the WWE) and how hot this and that guy was. Of course all of the guys were the elite of the male population, the women commenting on the men ranged from below-average to cute.

 

I interacted with these women because they were terrific friends but it does get a bit tiring after you spend your time hearing about guys, and if you think guys are more sexually active than women you are dearly mistaken. Men have much higher levels of Testosterne, but women have enormous access to very good-looking men and they take full advantage of it(as I would probably do if I had been born hot).

 

While I do agree that women generally have it easier than men in the dating sphere, it is nowhere near as bad for men as you make it seem.

 

As a short guy that completely tore it up in college, I can attest to the fact that it's not just the 6'3 model looking guys that do really well with women. To this day, I have no problem having casual sex if I want it (which I don't).

 

I find that it is much more difficult to get into a relationship. However, I'm starting to realize that it's more of an issue of me not being able to connect with American women (in general), as opposed to foreign women, who I connect with much better for some reason.

[ThaWholigan]

While I do agree that women generally have it easier than men in the dating sphere, it is nowhere near as bad for men as you make it seem.

 

As a short guy that completely tore it up in college, I can attest to the fact that it's not just the 6'3 model looking guys that do really well with women. To this day, I have no problem having casual sex if I want it (which I don't).

 

I find that it is much more difficult to get into a relationship. However, I'm starting to realize that it's more of an issue of me not being able to connect with American women (in general), as opposed to foreign women, who I connect with much better for some reason.

It's ridiculously easy to have sex nowadays for everyone. On the rare occasions I've been out recently, I've seen all kinds of guys copping off with girls. Some of my friends are having more sex than they have ever had before - I seem weird to everyone because apart from that period of time where I had a couple of girls I was seeing, I am not involved in any of it .

 

I don't think it's weird if you're not, but if you're blaming it on girls being picky, there's something else going on there. At least with me, I can admit that it's all on me as to why I currently don't get laid and I'm pretty much at peace with it.

 

(general you/you're)

[EasyHeart]

It's ridiculously easy to have sex nowadays for everyone.

I hate you damn kids!!!

[SongOfMySelf]

Ok.

 

Sounds believable.

 

I go to the gym 3 or 4 days a week. I've been making some gains but it isn't enough.

 

 

 

If you say so.

 

Well, according to my female friends and contemporaries, I'm above average looking and I'm 6'3 in height. So...

 

I'm not attracted to every girl I meet either.

 

Yeah, well you seem to have your eyes on the wrong women. Of course it's risky to have sex. It's also risky to drive a car.

 

 

The retirement sounds like a nice life but the rest sounds pretty sad.

 

I am the tall, broad-shouldered man who barely speaks...

 

Yeah because those guys sound like Average Joes with no testosterone. I am neither.

 

 

To be honest man, you sound really negative. I can be a bit pessimistic at times but never like this. You don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I don't know what you look like or how you act but you sound like you've never even talked to a female before. This whole thing makes you sound like a bitter virgin. I'm a virgin too but I've never expressed this bitterness.

 

If I ever get this bitter I will PM my address to someone on this forum so they can come to my apartment and shoot me dead point blank. **** that.

 

Where exactly am I bitter? And where is the need for the aggression? There aren't any women here to impress, ''bro.'' Not a virgin. dabbled in sex when I was in my early 20s, worked like a dog for it, she wasn't even considerable average(she was thin, but facially comparing her with other women she was more manly) and she found herself a 6'2'' Brad Pitt interested in her, so I figured no matter what I did I couldn't compete with that.

 

You're 6'3'' and you're above average and you can't get women? Are you aiming for women who are Angelina Jolies? Maybe you lack content in your social skills. A combination of charm and charisma can get you women if you are also good-looking or tall. But I'm really having doubts. I've seen pretty ugly/deformed tall men who were dating very beautiful women with great personalities and brains. A 6'3'' guy with good-looks finding it hard to date. Yeahh..

 

As for my life making you sad. How so? I'm happy. I'm not sexually frustrated and I'm free and wealthy enough to do whatever I want to do. My 20s were a bit hard to deal with but I'm past that now and I'm happy with my life.

 

This is one of the things I've never understood about men. You tell them that you've dropped from the game. This means that for every man that gives up, the more women are ''open'' for the men who are still in the dating world. In reality, I'm making it easier for the men who want to date, to date the women they want to date, but instead of accepting it they call me gay or bitter or something else.

 

Is it a case of wanting other men to prove to you that your choices to not give up are valid? I mean, if I'm mining for gold and everyone else who wants to become rich gives up on that mountain and goes to find gold somewhere else then there must something wrong with the mountain or with the tools, right?

 

 

It's ridiculously easy to have sex nowadays for everyone. On the rare occasions I've been out recently, I've seen all kinds of guys copping off with girls. Some of my friends are having more sex than they have ever had before - I seem weird to everyone because apart from that period of time where I had a couple of girls I was seeing, I am not involved in any of it .

 

I don't think it's weird if you're not, but if you're blaming it on girls being picky, there's something else going on there. At least with me, I can admit that it's all on me as to why I currently don't get laid and I'm pretty much at peace with it.

 

(general you/you're)

 

 

Its ridiculously easy to buy expensive stuff when your name is Cristiano Ronaldo and you make 1M $ per month. Its not that easy to get sex when you are a man. Back in college very few guys had relationships or casual sex. When I left college and joined the grown-up world it was still the same. Men would toll away, spend tons of money and they'd come home with nothing. Why do parks exist? Because people enjoy being around forests, lakes and such. Why is prostitution legal(I don't support it) in Europe? Because its very hard for the average man to have sex with women, even if the women are below average. I've seen pretty good-looking men/tall with obese women. I've never seen exceedingly hot women with below average men.

Edited March 22, 2014 by SongOfMySelf

[ThaWholigan]

I hate you damn kids!!!

Seriously, I hear some of these guys talking about short/fat/ugly/balding/broke men having problems and I think "I know an equivalent who is probably having sex right now and you're here talking about how hard it is".

 

Hell, I find it difficult to get laid a lot (autism and all that) but if I really wanted it bad enough and was desperate, I could probably quite easily find a girl who would have sex with me - without paying for it either. To put it crudely and crassly - pussy is abundant.

[Ryan R.]

Where exactly am I bitter? And where is the need for the aggression? There aren't any women here to impress, ''bro.'' Not a virgin. dabbled in sex when I was in my early 20s, worked like a dog for it, she wasn't even considerable average(she was thin, but facially comparing her with other women she was more manly) and she found herself a 6'2'' Brad Pitt interested in her, so I figured no matter what I did I couldn't compete with that.

 

You're 6'3'' and you're above average and you can't get women? Are you aiming for women who are Angelina Jolies? Maybe you lack content in your social skills. A combination of charm and charisma can get you women if you are also good-looking or tall. But I'm really having doubts. I've seen pretty ugly/deformed tall men who were dating very beautiful women with great personalities and brains. A 6'3'' guy with good-looks finding it hard to date. Yeahh..

 

As for my life making you sad. How so? I'm happy. I'm not sexually frustrated and I'm free and wealthy enough to do whatever I want to do. My 20s were a bit hard to deal with but I'm past that now and I'm happy with my life.

 

This is one of the things I've never understood about men. You tell them that you've dropped from the game. This means that for every man that gives up, the more women are ''open'' for the men who are still in the dating world. In reality, I'm making it easier for the men who want to date, to date the women they want to date, but instead of accepting it they call me gay or bitter or something else.

 

Is it a case of wanting other men to prove to you that your choices to not give up are valid? I mean, if I'm mining for gold and everyone else who wants to become rich gives up on that mountain and goes to find gold somewhere else then there must something wrong with the mountain or with the tools, right?

 

Sounds like bitterness to me, "bro". If you want to go mine your gold on another mountain, then fine. If you only had sex with one woman in your early 20s, you have no right to paint everyone with a such broad brush. According to you, she wasn't even that attractive. How could you let a girl like that take you for a spin? Anyway, have a great life. Doesn't sound too unlike the MGTOW stuff I've had the displeasure of being exposed to over the years.... "If you want to drop out...then drop out".

[SongOfMySelf]

Seriously, I hear some of these guys talking about short/fat/ugly/balding/broke men having problems and I think "I know an equivalent who is probably having sex right now and you're here talking about how hard it is".

 

Hell, I find it difficult to get laid a lot (autism and all that) but if I really wanted it bad enough and was desperate, I could probably quite easily find a girl who would have sex with me - without paying for it either. To put it crudely and crassly - pussy is abundant.

 

I know guys who survived getting hit by cars and coming out of it fine. I'm not so sure the majority of the men who get hit by a car leave the scene without a problem. Sex is not abundant, it is one of the most hard-to-get commodities/gifts/emotional whatever out there for men to accquire. Men spend their lives and their savings trying to get some and when they get some, they dedicate themselves even more into getting it.

 

Check out the body-builders relationship forum. Its filled with 6'6'' 20-sometihng Greek gods who can't get any sex.

 

I've even seen obese women reject the advances of average-looking men. If sex is so easy to get why are there so many men who are desperate for it?

 

 

Sounds like bitterness to me, "bro". If you want to go mine your gold on another mountain, then fine. If you only had sex with one woman in your early 20s, you have no right to paint everyone with a such broad brush. According to you, she wasn't even that attractive. How could you let a girl like that take you for a spin? Anyway, have a great life. Doesn't sound too unlike the MGTOW stuff I've had the displeasure of being exposed to over the years.... "If you want to drop out...then drop out".

 

 

That's because you are very young. My original post details valid motives to give up on a game that is rigged against me. The words are not words composed out of bitterness. It was a statement of how it is out there, and why I gave up. I'm not one of those guys who bangs his head against the wall hoping it breaks. I went out and found out something else I was really good at and became even better at it.

 

 

woman in your early 20s, you have no right to paint everyone with a such broad brush. According to you, she wasn't even that attractive. How could you let a girl like that take you for a spin?

 

 

I actually consider that girl to be one of the greatest teachers I've ever had. I couldn't keep a below-average looking woman, that means that I'm not attractive myself and that women will always have the upper hand. Which means that the good-looking women are as distant from me as the other side of the galaxy is from the man who works construction for a living. Think about it. If a below-average woman can find herself a Brad Pitt, what can the good-looking women we see everyday in college get? No chances with them, and to be cheated on by a below-average woman, that's something that is not going to happen again.

Edited March 22, 2014 by SongOfMySelf

[ThaWholigan]

I know guys who survived getting hit by cars and coming out of it fine. I'm not so sure the majority of the men who get hit by a car leave the scene without a problem. Sex is not abundant, it is one of the most hard-to-get commodities/gifts/emotional whatever out there for men to accquire. Men spend their lives and their savings trying to get some and when they get some, they dedicate themselves even more into getting it.

 

Check out the body-builders relationship forum. Its filled with 6'6'' 20-sometihng Greek gods who can't get any sex.

 

I've even seen obese women reject the advances of average-looking men. If sex is so easy to get why are there so many men who are desperate for it?

 

 

 

 

 

That's because you are very young. My original post details valid motives to give up on a game that is rigged against me. The words are not words composed out of bitterness. It was a statement of how it is out there, and why I gave up. I'm not one of those guys who bangs his head against the wall hoping it breaks. I went out and found out something else I was really good at and became even better at it.

 

 

 

 

 

I actually consider that girl to be one of the greatest teachers I've ever had. I couldn't keep a below-average looking woman, that means that I'm not attractive myself and that women will always have the upper hand. Which means that the good-looking women are as distant from me as the other side of the galaxy is from the man who works construction for a living. Think about it. If a below-average woman can find herself a Brad Pitt, what can the good-looking women we see everyday in college get? No chances with them, and to be cheated on by a below-average woman, that's something that is not going to happen again.

These excuse-making guys probably don't even talk to women - either that or they completely neuter themselves and their actual personality when they do.

 

Like I said - I do not know any man who struggles to get laid. Granted, I live in London. Must be different in other places. But here, take a trip to the hot spots. Brick Lane, Dalston, Camden - you could be the nerdiest motherf*cker in the spot, you can get girls there.

 

But, like I said in the other thread, perception is reality. If you perceive that sex is scarce, then it will be. I believe the PUAs call that "scarcity mentality".

[SongOfMySelf]

These excuse-making guys probably don't even talk to women - either that or they completely neuter themselves and their actual personality when they do.

 

Like I said - I do not know any man who struggles to get laid. Granted, I live in London. Must be different in other places. But here, take a trip to the hot spots. Brick Lane, Dalston, Camden - you could be the nerdiest motherf*cker in the spot, you can get girls there.

 

But, like I said in the other thread, perception is reality. If you perceive that sex is scarce, then it will be. I believe the PUAs call that "scarcity mentality".

 

These guys don't talk to women? how would that be possible? Everywhere you go there are women. Even the army has tons of women and for the longest of times its was man-only. Women very rarely date the men they see on a daily-basis. They'll get the treatment of the bro, while being women, getting attention, but having sex with men they find attractive, which tend to be men who fulfill the universal requirements for what the attractive man is.

 

London might just be different. In the US and in Europe men spend hundreds on women, regular women, non-prostitutes women just for the honor of their company. Why would they spend that much money if sex was a guarantee, that every guy can get it? They wouldn't. Money isn't cheap to get.

 

And women approach attractive men, they do. I've seen it . I see it daily. Tall, broad-shouldered Surfer kid gets sex all day. doesn't have to talk or to approach women. That's just how things are.

[hotpotato]

I agree, but a lot of problems that I see guys running into (and run into myself) is that you only have a limited number of women you can meet through work and friends (if you have any at all), while most of these women have limitless options (with methods like online dating) so you have to be absolutely perfect to get the girls.

 

Dating as a woman is totally not what you think it is...

[SongOfMySelf]

Dating as a woman is totally not what you think it is...

 

I have many lady friends. Back in college it would be a treat to listen to the adventures of these young ladies. Want a ONS with a hot guy? Check. Want a relationship? Check. Might not be with the hottest guy, but it will happen, and they'd have many, many guys for that protection and for the attention. dating is much, much easier for women.

[topaMAXX]

Dating as a woman is totally not what you think it is...

 

While I obviously don't know you or your dating experiences, I have to agree with the poster below you.

 

From what I've seen with my female friends in real life (and what many women have admitted on here), women have a ton of options and get approached regularly. HOWEVER, if they don't feel that the guy is up to par that approaches them, they won't consider that an approach. They only consider approaches by certain guys as legitimate approaches.

 

I have had situations with women run very smoothly (or situations where very minor mistakes were made on my part). Then they seemingly lose attraction out of nowhere. This is likely because they met another guy through various channels.

 

So, yeah, you pretty much have to be a perfect combination of not needy, fun, and witty to keep a girl interested. If you break frame even once, then it's done. This is likely due to the vast amount of options that they have coming from every direction (so once they find out the guy isn't perfect, he becomes expendable in favor of a new guy that seems perfect).

 

I've noticed that I have more leeway with girls that I know through social circle and foreign women though.

[SongOfMySelf]

While I obviously don't know you or your dating experiences, I have to agree with the poster below you.

 

From what I've seen with my female friends in real life (and what many women have admitted on here), women have a ton of options and get approached regularly. HOWEVER, if they don't feel that the guy is up to par that approaches them, they won't consider that an approach. They only consider approaches by certain guys as legitimate approaches.

 

I have had situations with women run very smoothly (or situations where very minor mistakes were made on my part). Then they seemingly lose attraction out of nowhere. This is likely because they met another guy through various channels.

 

So, yeah, you pretty much have to be a perfect combination of not needy, fun, and witty to keep a girl interested. If you break frame even once, then it's done. This is likely due to the vast amount of options that they have coming from every direction (so once they find out the guy isn't perfect, he becomes expendable in favor of a new guy that seems perfect).

 

I've noticed that I have more leeway with girls that I know through social circle and foreign women though.

 

Indeed. I know of several women who aren't perfect-looking themselves but complained about the beauty standards that men(the Ryan Gosling type) have for the women they date or hook-up. Meanwhile, they were complaining about having no male attention/men interested in them. Plenty of these guys were interested in them, its just that women don't consider average-looking/below average males to be men, and are only open to the advances of the better-looking men, and even if you can get the average woman/below average interested in you for a few hours you're running against the clock because someone taller/better-looking will arrive and he'll get the woman.

 

A few years I went to Greece with some friends and their girlfriends. One of those friends brought along her lady friend. The woman was 5'11'', nothing special to look at, and while we were in Greece we had a whole bunch of very attractive Greek men with tons of money asking the woman to marry them, that they'd pay for the woman's studies and that they'd give her anything she wanted.

 

How do you compete with that? You don't. You drop out of the game or you end up burned out or poor, trying to get a date, let alone ''commitment'' from women when the truth of the matter is that all women are genetic Helens of Troy and can have a thousand warships launched over them.

[hotpotato]

I have many lady friends. Back in college it would be a treat to listen to the adventures of these young ladies. Want a ONS with a hot guy? Check. Want a relationship? Check. Might not be with the hottest guy, but it will happen, and they'd have many, many guys for that protection and for the attention. dating is much, much easier for women.

 

Well, it's easy to get sex out of a man. That's a no brained

I could see maybe women have a lot of options they don't want. I could go find an extremely unattractive man to date right now, but I don't consider that as being necessarily successful.

 

Maybe because I don't date for the sake of it. I only have a few options when it comes to dating.

 

I will agree that many women have orbiters but that doesn't mean they are after relationships.

[SongOfMySelf]

Well, it's easy to get sex out of a man. That's a no brained

I could see maybe women have a lot of options they don't want. I could go find an extremely unattractive man to date right now, but I don't consider that as being necessarily successful.

 

Maybe because I don't date for the sake of it. I only have a few options when it comes to dating.

 

I will agree that many women have orbiters but that doesn't mean they are after relationships.

 

Yeah, that's what I mean. Most women have at least one guy who is interested in having sex with them, and when women decide they want casual sex there are always attractive guys they can call, and the ego-boost provided from average/below average men is always there. Most men don't live in that reality.

 

Most men have to be always in the prowl or begging for female attention. There are billions of porn videos to be found on the internet, and there are thousands upon thousands of webcam girls making fortunes out of the sexual frustration of the average man.

 

You say you have a few options for dating at the moment? I know of many men who are decent-looking without any option for dating, and no chance in getting casual sex. See? Women win. Always.

[hotpotato]

While I obviously don't know you or your dating experiences, I have to agree with the poster below you.

 

From what I've seen with my female friends in real life (and what many women have admitted on here), women have a ton of options and get approached regularly. HOWEVER, if they don't feel that the guy is up to par that approaches them, they won't consider that an approach. They only consider approaches by certain guys as legitimate approaches.

 

I have had situations with women run very smoothly (or situations where very minor mistakes were made on my part). Then they seemingly lose attraction out of nowhere. This is likely because they met another guy through various channels.

 

So, yeah, you pretty much have to be a perfect combination of not needy, fun, and witty to keep a girl interested. If you break frame even once, then it's done. This is likely due to the vast amount of options that they have coming from every direction (so once they find out the guy isn't perfect, he becomes expendable in favor of a new guy that seems perfect).

 

I've noticed that I have more leeway with girls that I know through social circle and foreign women though.

I guess I missed that train. I only get stalkers. Men rarely ask me out. No guy asked me out in high school or college. The guys that do ask are the Johnny Bravos of the world who will hit on any warm body with a vjayjay. Even that is rare.

 

I want to know where all these women are willing to trade up. Most of the women I know have been married for almost a decade and they are late 20s. There are plenty of men who will trade up a woman. Women have to work to keep men interested, too. Dating for women is not as fun or easy as you think it is.

[topaMAXX]

Well, it's easy to get sex out of a man. That's a no brained

I could see maybe women have a lot of options they don't want. I could go find an extremely unattractive man to date right now, but I don't consider that as being necessarily successful.

 

Maybe because I don't date for the sake of it. I only have a few options when it comes to dating.

 

I will agree that many women have orbiters but that doesn't mean they are after relationships.

 

I know you were replying to the other poster, but I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about relationships.

 

What's your definition of "extremely unattractive"? That's important.

 

I'm a late 20's short guy with a good-looking face, successful career, and fun personality (so I'm told). Meeting girls to hook up with is relatively easy (as long as I approach). Meeting girls to get into relationships with is very difficult.

[SongOfMySelf]

I guess I missed that train. I only get stalkers. Men rarely ask me out. No guy asked me out in high school or college. The guys that do ask are the Johnny Bravos of the world who will hit on any warm body with a vjayjay. Even that is rare.

 

I want to know where all these women are willing to trade up. Most of the women I know have been married for almost a decade and they are late 20s. There are plenty of men who will trade up a woman. Women have to work to keep men interested, too. Dating for women is not as fun or easy as you think it is.

 

For every woman who isn't popular with the opposite sex, there's 10 I know of who are having the time of their lives. Saying that one soldier or two who fought in the western front didn't die doesn't take away from the fact that most of the men who fought in the western Front died.

 

The men who trade up women are the men who can do it, the men who are either Orlando Blooms or have the money to be selected by women. Most men can't trade up, and I don't think men would trade the woman - its already hard to get one, let alone start it all over again by trading the woman they for a better-looking/younger one. I know a woman who by the age of 21 had already had 6 sexual partners and 3 boyfriends. Now compare that to the average man, and let me tell you that she was below-average .

[hotpotato]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Most women have at least one guy who is interested in having sex with them, and when women decide they want casual sex there are always attractive guys they can call, and the ego-boost provided from average/below average men is always there. Most men don't live in that reality.

 

Most men have to be always in the prowl or begging for female attention. There are billions of porn videos to be found on the internet, and there are thousands upon thousands of webcam girls making fortunes out of the sexual frustration of the average man.

 

You say you have a few options for dating at the moment? I know of many men who are decent-looking without any option for dating, and no chance in getting casual sex. See? Women win. Always.

 

I guess I don't understand the emphasis on sex. Sex is a lowest common denominator activity anybody can do.

 

I've been on the receiving end of guys who want that porn I graphic type loving. It's not a good feeling. A lot of men who watch porn or have transactional porn are not hard up. They just want something g fast, uncomplicated, and don't want to mix in any emotions.

 

No, I don't have any options for dating right now except hypothetical ones. Oh I guess I could call up my 60 year old stalker and see if he wi take me on a date? Dating for women is not all roses.

 

My ex is moderately attractive at best and dorky. Yet he hasn't been single in probably a decade. He has always found somebody. Maybe your friends need to get out more.

[topaMAXX]

I guess I missed that train. I only get stalkers. Men rarely ask me out. No guy asked me out in high school or college. The guys that do ask are the Johnny Bravos of the world who will hit on any warm body with a vjayjay. Even that is rare.

 

I want to know where all these women are willing to trade up. Most of the women I know have been married for almost a decade and they are late 20s. There are plenty of men who will trade up a woman. Women have to work to keep men interested, too. Dating for women is not as fun or easy as you think it is.

 

I'm not saying that married women are trying to trade up. I'm saying that I believe that single women have many options (between social circles and especially online dating) and, thus, either aren't considering decent guys or do consider these guys, but eliminate them over any hint of imperfection.

 

I don't think guys that want relationships cold approach though because they're either shy or realized that it really doesn't work (I'm in that class).

 

But, as I said, you always have online dating, which strongly favors women. If OLD didn't exist, I might be more on your side of this argument. But OLD objectively gives women FAR more options and actively limits the options of normal, decent guys (because girls that they would normally date are meeting multiple guys from OLD).

 

If you don't believe my last paragraph (and have not tried OLD yourself), just look around at threads on this forum.

[hotpotato]

I know you were replying to the other poster, but I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about relationships.

 

What's your definition of "extremely unattractive"? That's important.

 

I'm a late 20's short guy with a good-looking face, successful career, and fun personality (so I'm told). Meeting girls to hook up with is relatively easy (as long as I approach). Meeting girls to get into relationships with is very difficult.

 

A lot of attention from men is for the physical. I'm trying to explain that.

 

It's hard for a lot of people to find someone compatible. That's not an exclusively male problem.