Folks with kids, are you upfront?

[Els]

Comparing sleeping in separate beds to having children? Yeah so similar. Youre trying WAY to hard now to excuse what this woman tried to do.

 

Frankly, even though both are dealbreakers to me, if I absolutely had to choose between a man who had children and a man who wanted to sleep in separate beds all our lives, I would choose the former. Yes, I'm in my 20s.

 

The point is that different people prioritize different things, and frankly your time isn't so precious that you should be exempted from needing to talk to people IRL to find out who they are and whether or not you want a relationship with them. Like how, you know, everyone else does. It's not others' duty to save you from that.

[kaylan]

Frankly, even though both are dealbreakers to me, if I absolutely had to choose between a man who had children and a man who wanted to sleep in separate beds all our lives, I would choose the former. Yes, I'm in my 20s.

 

The point is that different people prioritize different things, and frankly your time isn't so precious that you should be exempted from needing to talk to people IRL to find out who they are and whether or not you want a relationship with them. It's not their duty to do that.

You are not a man. MEN are well known for not wanting to deal with the spawn of another man, let alone raise them. Some men do it, but most men dont want anything to do with such a situation.

 

And yes, time is precious, and its why people list things like height, age, etc in a profile. You list this info because youre not meeting in person. If I met a girl in person for the first time without ever seeing her profile, Id figure out most profile details rather quickly.

 

If you think its ok to withhold info on kids, I guess its ok to withhold info from women in their 30s looking to settle down. I guess I can show up on dates and tell them Im not 35, Im really in my late 20s and Im still just looking to have fun. I was just hoping theyd like me enough to give casual dating a try and that my age wouldnt be a deal breaker.

 

How would that be any different from a woman looking for a long term relationship withholding info regarding kids while she talks to a man not looking for an LTR?

[pickflicker]

Comparing sleeping in separate beds to having children? Yeah so similar. Youre trying WAY too hard now to excuse what this woman tried to do.

 

And actually, when it comes to kids, most people want to know that right away. And most women online seem smart enough to state it in their profile, or in the first few conversations...that way they dont have to waste their own time on guys who arent cool with it.

 

You want to sleep in a separate bed to your partner during the course of your relationship?

 

I can understand if they're sick and the best solution is separate beds until they're well, but I don't see how this deal breaker is worse than not immediately spilling the beans on kids.

 

They both seem fairly on par, actually.

[Els]

The analogy you listed is similar to the woman stating that she doesn't have kids on her profile, then meeting you and saying she actually does. Obviously that would be wrong.

 

Why are you so resistant to suggestions of you stating up-front that you don't want to date women with kids? If it is so important to you, then you owe it to yourself to do the legwork to weed it out right away. Similarly a woman who desires a LTR should talk about it and state that she doesn't want to do casual dating, not assume that every man must state that he is only into casual dating prior to meeting her and without having any conversation about it.

 

Regardless, I have a feeling that you aren't really looking for advice, but rather looking for people to help you pile on the woman for what you perceive to be a wrong that she did you. Unfortunately, not many people agree with you, and you can't accept that, so you are getting hostile.

 

I'm not interested in wasting MY precious time on that, so I'm leaving this thread. Given your recent proclivity for such posts as of the last 1-2 years, I'm also blocking you so I don't give in to temptation to try and help you for old times' sakes.

 

Have fun, kaylan.

[kaylan]

You want to sleep in a separate bed to your partner during the course of your relationship?

 

I can understand if they're sick and the best solution is separate beds until they're well, but I don't see how this deal breaker is worse than not immediately spilling the beans on kids.

 

They both seem fairly on par, actually.

Lmao...anyone with half a brain cell can see why that comparison is hard reaching and basically an attempt to let another off the hook for withholding important info.

 

Its not the same because its a WELL KNOWN FACT that most men in their 20s avoid dating single moms. Sleeping in seperate beds is not something most single men in their 20s run from like the plague...so no they are not similar situations that can be compared. Because we can say with a good sense of certainty why a woman would not tell a guy she has kids before a date.

The analogy you listed is similar to the woman stating that she doesn't have kids on her profile, then meeting you and saying she actually does. Obviously that would be wrong.

 

Why are you so resistant to suggestions of you stating up-front that you don't want to date women with kids? If it is so important to you, then you owe it to yourself to do the legwork to weed it out right away. Similarly a woman who desires a LTR should talk about it and state that she doesn't want to do casual dating, not assume that every man must state that he is only into casual dating prior to meeting her and without having any conversation about it.

 

Regardless, I have a feeling that you aren't really looking for advice, but rather looking for people to help you pile on the woman for what you perceive to be a wrong that she did you. Unfortunately, not many people agree with you, and you can't accept that, so you are getting hostile.

 

I'm not interested in wasting MY precious time on that, so I'm leaving this thread. Given your recent proclivity for such posts as of the last 1-2 years, I'm also blocking you so I don't give in to temptation to try and help you for old times' sakes.

 

Have fun, kaylan.

I didnt want advice. No I did not. Where did I ask for any? The title of the thread clearly asks people how and when they disclose the fact that they have children.

 

I didnt need advice here. I already knew Id cancel the date. I dont deal with women who are not upfront, and I dont deal with women who have young kids. No thanks. If a woman with kids is able to tell a guy upfront shes not down for flings, then doesnt it make sense for her to also let a man know about her children? And if you accurately read the thread, yes many people here agree that she should be upfront.

 

Go back and read the thread.

Edited March 16, 2014 by kaylan

[pickflicker]

I think this thread had served to highlight your hypocritical attitude to acceptable behaviour for men and women when dating. It's ultimately going to stand in your way. She should have been upfront. But you're hardly a saint in that department either.

[kaylan]

I think this thread had served to highlight your hypocritical attitude to acceptable behaviour for men and women when dating. It's ultimately going to stand in your way. She should have been upfront. But you're hardly a saint in that department either.

Hypocritical how? I dont think men should hide the fact that they have kids either. So dont even try that. I dont hide important things from women when dating. All the girls Ive been talking to lately, I let them know upfront my intentions and what I want. And I let them know anything important about me that I know is important to a womans dating decisions.

[pickflicker]

Hypocritical how? I dont think men should hide the fact that they have kids either. So dont even try that ish here sister.

 

Elswyth detailed a few things that might be worth telling women. Particularly the fact that you think so lowly of women in general.

 

Is it true you don't want to sleep in the same bed as your partner?

[kaylan]

Elswyth detailed a few things that might be worth telling women. Particularly the fact that you think so lowly of women in general.

 

And don't "sister" me - it's patronising.

I dont think lowly of quality women, but Id have no problem saying to a woman I just met that many women arent worth dating. Im sure it would be met with the retort that many men are low quality, and then Id agree with her and we'd keep things moving.

[pickflicker]

I dont think lowly of quality women, but Id have no problem saying to a woman I just met that many women arent worth dating. Im sure it would be met with the retort that many men are low quality, and then Id agree with her and we'd keep things moving.

 

Oh boy. You are screwed. Good luck with that. I'm not surprised most women think you're a d***. They're probably just to polite to say it.

[kaylan]

Elswyth detailed a few things that might be worth telling women. Particularly the fact that you think so lowly of women in general.

 

Is it true you don't want to sleep in the same bed as your partner?

 

And look at my old thread about my sleeping habits. I clearly said that depending on the bed Id be using with a girlfriend, that some nights I may have to sleep alone because I have lower back issues sometimes. Hardly worth comparing to the issue of kids. Generally I deal with the back pain when sleeping with someone new.

 

But I imagine that in the future, when living with a woman, Id be able to have more of a say over the type of bed we have since I have a health issue. Plus they do have beds that can have different firmness on each side. So long as Im able to keep my back healthy, and a girl doesnt want to constantly be on top of me cuddling, sleeping in the same bed wont be an issue. I dont see that being a problem, as my experience has shown me women dont want to be all on top of you all night, every night.

Oh boy. You are screwed. Good luck with that. I'm not surprised most women think you're a d***. They're probably just to polite to say it.

Yet somehow, I say exactly what I just told you to women, and they still date/sleep with me. So yes, I am screwed

 

I think any smart woman would be able to agree with me that quality people to date are rare. So considering how I date smart women, thats why my statement hasnt run me into any trouble. When a girl asks about my past, I straight up tell her "Im picky, and a lot of girls arent worth dating. My previous relationships have showed me not to rush, and I commit when Im sure I see a good future".

 

I havent received any flack for saying that. They usually agree with me, and say the same thing about men. And then I get a response like "well hopefully I can be an exception ;)"

Edited March 16, 2014 by kaylan

[pickflicker]

And look at my old thread about my sleeping habits. I clearly said that depending on the bed Id be using with a girlfriend, that some nights I may have to sleep alone because I have lower back issues sometimes. Hardly worth comparing to the issue of kids. Generally I deal with the back pain when sleeping with someone new.

 

But I imagine that in the future, when living with a woman, Id be able to have more of a say over the type of bed we have since I have a health issue. Plus they do have beds that can have different firmness on each side. So long as Im able to keep my back healthy, and a girl doesnt want to constantly be on top of me cuddling, sleeping in the same bed wont be an issue. I dont see that being a problem, as my experience has shown me women dont want to be all on top of you all night, every night.

Yet somehow, I say exactly what I just told you to women, and they still date/sleep with me. So yes, I am screwed

 

I think any smart woman would be able to agree with me that quality people to date are rare. So considering how I date smart women, thats why my statement hasnt run me into any trouble.

 

Smart women would agree. But smart women don't like bitterness in a man. If they're flocking to you because of your bitterness, that suggests to me that they're woefully insecure. Which means you both have something in common.

 

Good luck.

[kaylan]

Smart women would agree. But smart women don't like bitterness in a man. If they're flocking to you because of your bitterness, that suggests to me that they're woefully insecure. Which means you both have something in common.

 

Good luck.

Pickflicker, its not bitterness at all. Youre obviously misinterpreting my demeanor...but its hard to read emotions in a wall of text. Im just a realist. When I say these things to women, Im usually jovial or matter of fact about it. No negative emotions at all.

 

Generally Im just "meh" about it (indifferent). Im not upset that great women who Id want to date long-term are rare. I accept it for what it is, and enjoy the women available to me and try to make new friends. So in actuality, the women who do like me, like that Im easy going, cheerful, and practical about things.

 

Thanks for the well wishes.

[894hjk]

Some woman don't like to say they have kids to strange men in case they r peudos.

 

Women should b upfront

[Ninjainpajamas]

I actually deleted my initial post, which was a lot more indirect towards the other poster and instead about the perceptions of women with children among men in their early to mid 20's; but instead tried and make a point/example about how women can play the victim in their previous relationships which is one way that emotion is perpetuated within men that makes them create these assumptions that single moms in their 20's don't like men to make.

 

And then some women feel basically innocent of any choice or wrong doing because they feel the failure and complete responsibility ultimately rested on the shoulders of the man, the scale becomes tipped dramatically and oversimplified which in itself reeks of someone who thinks in very black and white terms who's judgment and accountability serves as a warning to any men wanting to avoid becoming apart of the same scenario which is the last thing many of these young men want, and therefore this is a circumstance some women feel provides them a level of excusable leeway to use certain benefits or opportunities to omit the truth towards men, because they feel the victim, not the participant who carries any load for her decisions in the past other than how she acts as a mother today which is completely beside the point. Which unlike things you may be able to hide that are common in OLD, children are not something that should be hidden if what you're looking for is an open, honest and compatible relationship.

 

If you desire something out of someone else, then you should probably represent the similar qualities and expectations within yourself...if we're really talking about fair is fair here and like attracting like.

 

In terms of deal-breakers, children is a pretty well known one in the 20's for many men, but not all, some men are very sympathetic towards that due to their own up-bringing, however for most men it's a definite fast-track to commitment or a situation they are completely not comfortable or ready for. I think it's important for any parent in their 20's to make that known to anyone they would consider dating for a serious relationship, otherwise it's a gamble and a gamble that might blow up in your face with a cold rejection and you should accept that reality if it's something you weren't initial clear about.

 

You also have to understand there is a biased tone here, where you are allowed to have deal-breakers...as long as they fit within the acceptable conditions of the person who is making the judgment, so if she desires a man who is 6'3, athletic build, six figures, well-educated preferably rich or well-off who would make an excellent husband and father whether he wants that or not because she feels she has the right to like what she likes and her expectations are completely reasonable, there's absolutely nothing wrong for it never should she feel judged for it...however, if your desire is to date someone who is not overweight, has certain physical/beauty requirements, who doesn't have any baby daddies then you're essentially a dirt bag who represses women with social media expectations, who clearly only views women as sex objects, are judgmental and you don't deserve any good woman because the real woman is underneath...it's easy to see the contradiction there, but for many women, that is ok because ultimately they state they are more forgiving and their argument is that men don't often meet those expectations either so why should they? regardless of the fact that some men do meet or exceed them, those situations are ignored because there's no excuses to make to put it back on men...it's like walking into a bar of sports fans who are all rooting for the same team and asking them how the referring is going when their team is losing, that's how transparent your replies will be from the individual.

 

It was within your right to cancel the date, I could argue this for 150 pages in so many ways but it's not even worth it. Unfortunately this is LS, the background is pink and it's not necessarily a haven for the honest answers and opinions of men, and any man who is honest about something that women don't like, he pretty much gets what you'd expect him to get. It's why men do the "smart" thing and keep their mouths shut about opinions that will clash, that way they retain that "respect" in a woman's eyes, because men today typically nod in agreement to women on the surface lest be painted as a criminal and then go and do what they really want to do behind the scenes. You see, as a man as long as your silent about your opinion women will simply give men the benefit of the doubt and would like to believe they are the man they say they are, if you open your mouth about something "negative" then that just makes you a jerk, the other guys might believe in the exact same thing you do, but they won't out themselves, they'll stay in the closet and therefore you're a jerk but they're fine in that woman's eyes.

 

You sleeping in separate beds or buying a bed that has one side hard the other soft or whatever is not on the same level as having a child, that's a helluva stretch for a parallel example.

 

As far as the argument I always see by some women that states "Only unintelligent women make stupid romantic decisions or fall for men who are doing dumb things" I have no idea what they tell themselves when they fall for it, or if they think of themselves as unintelligent when they've had the wool pulled over their eyes by a man...who knows. I guess you just deny the fact it ever happened to you, or that the guy was actually a good guy with a good agenda and things just didn't "work out"....little do they know the whole truth.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Ninjainpajamas

[kaylan]

Speaking of men nodding along...

 

 

xD Bill Maher is funny

[irc333]

Yeah, there is something that's a bit off putting about a woman who had kids outside of marriage, esp. if it was by choice.

 

When I was in my 20's, most 20-something (esp early 20 somethings) , would avoid women their age that had kids, because there were so many women their age that didn't get knocked up.

 

 

Im about to cancel a date with this mid 20s chick because she didnt let me know about kids anywhere during conversation the last few days. We have a date for the middle of next week, but I just found out about the kids today because I asked her who the kids were in a few of her instagram pictures. Plus during our convos shes mentioned how she doesnt wanna just hook up. So Im thinking, if your possibly looking for something more serious than casual, mention the damn kids upfront please.

 

We started talking on Tinder, but her Tinder profile, nor her pictures, dont say anything about children. I was turned off because it felt like she was not being upfront, and Ive seen other women on Tinder put up pictures of their kids or state it in that little profile paragraph.

 

Whats also odd is my perception of single moms based on their age. Im talking to a different woman in her 30s who has kids, but theyre from a previous marriage, and shes got her ish together. Plus usually a woman in her 30s doesnt usually have small kids, so her situation didnt bother me much.

 

For some reason a woman in her 20s just screams "I didnt get married before I had these kids, and we will have a hard time dating because of my small children". Also, itd be too much hassle having more than 1 person in my dating life with kids. I need room for typical young fun stuff.

 

Thoughts?

[ltjg45]

What? There isn't a lot of women in the 20s age range that is single mothers?

 

I can tell you this much: down here, that is COMPLETELY false. In fact, I am catching hell trying to find any woman within my age range that didn't already get pregnant. And after babysitting my family for the past decade, I definitely don't want to deal with any kids for a while.

[xxoo]

You are not a man. MEN are well known for not wanting to deal with the spawn of another man, let alone raise them. Some men do it, but most men dont want anything to do with such a situation.

 

And yes, time is precious, and its why people list things like height, age, etc in a profile. You list this info because youre not meeting in person. If I met a girl in person for the first time without ever seeing her profile, Id figure out most profile details rather quickly.

 

If you think its ok to withhold info on kids, I guess its ok to withhold info from women in their 30s looking to settle down. I guess I can show up on dates and tell them Im not 35, Im really in my late 20s and Im still just looking to have fun. I was just hoping theyd like me enough to give casual dating a try and that my age wouldnt be a deal breaker.

 

How would that be any different from a woman looking for a long term relationship withholding info regarding kids while she talks to a man not looking for an LTR?

 

If age was not listed online, and did not come up on conversation before the first date, there is nothing wrong with revealing that you are 20s on the first date. I don't see how that is misleading anyone --especially if she had no age requirements on her profile. It's just a first date.

 

If the issue is that important to you, be upfront on YOUR profile, or bring it up yourself. You can't control what others do, and you'll be less frustrated if you are proactive.

[waiting4u]

You are not a man. MEN are well known for not wanting to deal with the spawn of another man, let alone raise them. Some men do it, but most men dont want anything to do with such a situation.

 

If you think its ok to withhold info on kids, I guess its ok to withhold info from women in their 30s looking to settle down. I guess I can show up on dates and tell them Im not 35, Im really in my late 20s and Im still just looking to have fun. I was just hoping theyd like me enough to give casual dating a try and that my age wouldnt be a deal breaker.

 

How would that be any different from a woman looking for a long term relationship withholding info regarding kids while she talks to a man not looking for an LTR?

 

1) Not all women in their 30's are "looking to settle down." Some of them have settled down and are looking to break free and have fun.

2) You sound like an unbelievable as*hat.

3) I would tell women up front that kids are a deal breaker. God forbid you actually get involved with a woman who has children and she finds out you feel THIS way.

4) You are 35 and kids are a deal breaker? Good luck. The majority of women in their 30's already have children and aren't looking to have more.

[veggirl]

waiting, OP isn't 35. He is mid 20s, iirc.

 

Kaylan I'd just put in your profile "no single moms, please", I guess. Hopefully that won't offend but will rather just weed them out.

[Shepp]

I think it's quite unusual to be a never married, or divorced, single mom at 25. I can think of exactly 0 people I know/have known who fit that criteria.

 

It might not be the norm but its definitely not unusual! I know quite a few girls (admittedly factor in that with 4 month old boys myself me and my gf are currently mixing with more young parents than the average 20 year old does) but I know quite a few who got pregnant, guy didn't want to be involved, they decided to keep the baby and there doing the single mum thing.

 

 

Cause if there'd planned to get pregnant then yeah, that would of been quick to break up, but a lot of people get pregnant accidently - my girlfriend definitely didn't mean to get pregnant!

[WrinkledForehead]

Also,

 

I dont need to date women with baggage. I can do better.

 

Yes. You can do better by staying single. People without baggage don't exist. Hell, you have your own. You're reaching for perfection and until you open your mind and learn to be a compassionate person you'll likely stay bitter and miserable, and especially in regards to dating.

[soccerrprp]

As a single father with young children, the existence of children should be mentioned in your online profile and/or the very first date you have. No reason why that information should be withheld from the beginning imho.

[carhill]

Thoughts?

 

Unclear how things have evolved in the younger generation; when I was meeting and greeting women, I can't recall one whom was childless, save for the lady I married, and *every* one disclosed that they had children, either at first meeting/date, or even before, during the later period of interacting online. Even today, when I've met women, they naturally talk about their children, with most today being adults, and grandchildren, as appropriate. So my anecdote/datapoint, with hundreds of interactions over the decades, would be that single/divorced women have been upfront about their children.