Art_Critic Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Oh boy, youre missing the point. Let people know you have kids BEFORE you schedule a date. Dont waste peoples time. Luckily I found out before the date. I dont need to cut strangers slack. Im trying to use my dating time efficiently. She must've been pretty hot for you to be this upset 3
Els Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) But as a woman all I see is men assuming that women with children did something wrong. When it reality the likeliness it he gets her pregnant and then ditches them both. Not their fault at all. What are mothers supposed to do. Wait until their kids are 16 and start dating again? That's an awful lot of time to be alone I don't think women with kids did anything wrong, but other people are within their rights to choose relationships with fellow childfree people. I wouldn't want a R with a man with kids, not because I think worse of him, but because it would affect our R significantly. That being said, I don't see why someone owes you all that information before they've even met you, OP. It may be just me being a traditional old fuddy duddy, but I believe talks like that are best done in person if possible. Edited March 15, 2014 by Elswyth 3
Els Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Don't justify yourself to Ninja's post, it was bloody rude. Yes. Especially the glaring loophole about how she has to 'take responsibility' for what she did at 19, but she 'can't expect the guy she was with back then to accept such a huge responsibility'. 7
NJtoDC Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 One downfall of tindr is you don't check of a list of things like: children, smoker, height, build, etc. I can see how having kids might not come up from that app. Perhaps she wasn't trying to conceal them at all. You like something about her enough to ask for a date but you never asked if she has kids? Why not? That's a natural part of conversation on day one for me, not even because it's a deal breaker, but because I want to get to know a bit about a potential date. If this topic has bearing on your interest you should ask up front. Now if you were on POF and a woman checked "NO" under children, that is clearly a lie. 1
fujidabruin Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I feel that any parent looking to create a new LTR should be upfront about being a parent..... However, a parent should not be expected to post or privately send photos of their kids to anyone that they are not sure about. To me, it seems obvious that there are serious privacy and security issues at stake for childrens well-being. 2
kiss_andmakeup Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I've never used Tinder, but my impression is that it's a relatively casual dating app aimed at the teen and 20-something set. It doesn't strike me as something people use to really look for lasting, quality relationships. I'm not saying that those can't be formed from it, I'm just saying that the site doesn't really frame itself as a "relationship matcher" like Match, eHarmony, and etc. So from that standpoint, I do understand her not putting anything about her kids in her profile. My impression is that Tinder is largely photo-based, and I completely understand not wanting to show off photos of your kids to thousands of unidentified strangers. I'm also surprised that you expected her to tell you this before even meeting. Maybe she wanted to tell you in person? Maybe she doesn't like to give out a ton of personal information to someone she's never met? Maybe she wanted to be in a setting where she'd be able to give you a bit of background so as not to be judged? Coming from the standpoint of someone who would prefer not to date a guy with kids, if I went out on a date with a guy and he admitted on the first date that he did have children, I would not feel deceived just because he didn't tell me before meeting. If we went out on a few dates and he waited until date 2, 3, 4 or later to tell me, then that's a different story. I guess the point here is that online dating has kind of shifted how we date and get to know people. If you had met this girl in a bar, exchanged a few quick words, decided she was cute and asked her on a date, would you have expected her to say "sure, but I have kids, just FYI!" To me, that would be a weird thing to say. Now that people largely meet each other online, there is more pre-date chatter in the form of messaging, e-mailing, and texting. So I suppose the floor is open for discussion of these things a bit earlier. Just realize that not everyone feels comfortable disclosing all of their personal life details in this format. I myself favour face-to-face contact, and when I did do online dating, I tried to keep messages and texts to an absolute minimum before meeting the person. All of this was a very long way of saying that it's likely that she wasn't trying to deceive you. I think you could've given her one date, and if she didn't mention it then, then it's a bit dishonest on her part. But everyone communicates differently, and if this is your expectation, there's not really a whole lot anyone can say to change it. 5
WrinkledForehead Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I think it's quite unusual to be a never married, or divorced, single mom at 25. I can think of exactly 0 people I know/have known who fit that criteria. Wait, no, my former roommate had a kid w/ a guy she was barely dating at 26. However, most 25 yr olds who have children are either married or in a relationship w/ the dad, I'd think. Most 25 yr olds aren't divorced or never married w/ kid(s!?). It is not the norm, whatsoever. This girl KNOWS that is a dealbreaker for lots of guys her age, I'm sure of it. So why not just put it out there to weed those guys out? Easy enough. Also her casual dating life? OP said she is looking for something serious, not casual dating. Hi. Nice to meet you. I was a single mom of a toddler who was pregnant with another (same father) at the age of 26. I left my kids' father (who I never married) when I was 3 months pregnant with my youngest. It happens.
Almond_Joy Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Oh boy, youre missing the point. Let people know you have kids BEFORE you schedule a date. Dont waste peoples time. Luckily I found out before the date. I dont need to cut strangers slack. Im trying to use my dating time efficiently. I think this depends on what the premise of the dating situation is. If you and the woman are looking for something short term or casual, I don't see why she needs to tell you about her kids. Most responsible moms aren't gonna bring you around their kids if they're not serious about you so it's not like you'd have to get involved in the kids lives. It's just you and her (assuming you're both exclusive). If on the other hand you're both looking for long term or she wants long term, she does need to mention the kids upfront, because anything long term or serious will involve the kids at some point. So really it's not about cutting anyone slack, it's about clarifying what you're looking for before you start dating.
RonaldS Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Kaylan, how do you know she didn't want to just hang out and then bang? Just because she has a kid doesn't mean she is automatically looking for a serious relationship. Maybe she just wanted to mess around a little. I mean, dude....you met her on Tinder, not ChristianMingle.com. Now, if you're concerned about the status of her parts post childbirth...ok, that's another issue.
Author kaylan Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) To be fair she also wasn't hiding them, they were in her pictures on instagram in full view. I will say though I never ran into this when I was dating but would expect a woman to have kids to make it known to me unless we met someplace not dating related like a gas station. The instragram she shared days later AFTER the scheduling of the date.I don't think women with kids did anything wrong, but other people are within their rights to choose relationships with fellow childfree people. I wouldn't want a R with a man with kids, not because I think worse of him, but because it would affect our R significantly. That being said, I don't see why someone owes you all that information before they've even met you, OP. It may be just me being a traditional old fuddy duddy, but I believe talks like that are best done in person if possible. Why should I have my time wasted? Why should I drive an hour just for that?One downfall of tindr is you don't check of a list of things like: children, smoker, height, build, etc. I can see how having kids might not come up from that app. Perhaps she wasn't trying to conceal them at all. You like something about her enough to ask for a date but you never asked if she has kids? Why not? That's a natural part of conversation on day one for me, not even because it's a deal breaker, but because I want to get to know a bit about a potential date. If this topic has bearing on your interest you should ask up front. Now if you were on POF and a woman checked "NO" under children, that is clearly a lie. Ive seen women on tinder mention kids in the paragraph of space youre allowed to write about yourself. Ive seen them put pictures up. And I have even had girls upfront ask me how I felt about kids during our conversation, long before scheduling a date. Why are people making excuses for a woman willfully hiding her offspring? Kids ARE NOT the norm for women in their 20s. I shouldnt have to ask every woman that right off the bat, especially when there are no early indicators she has any. If we were over 30, sure I should ask that. But women in their early to mid 20s especially dont have kids usually. Look up the stats, they are the low low minority. Edited March 15, 2014 by kaylan
xxoo Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 If you met her on Tinder, she is probably looking for fun and screening for more. It would makes sense to divulge about personal things like kids somewhere between the "fun" and the "more". No reason to exclude an opportunity for fun because he wouldn't be a candidate for more. 1
Author kaylan Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 Kaylan, how do you know she didn't want to just hang out and then bang? Just because she has a kid doesn't mean she is automatically looking for a serious relationship. Maybe she just wanted to mess around a little. I mean, dude....you met her on Tinder, not ChristianMingle.com. Now, if you're concerned about the status of her parts post childbirth...ok, that's another issue. ^She specifically said she didnt want to just hook up. When a chick says, it says to me she wants a bf out of potential meetings. Girls do use that app to find decent guys for a relationship with. One of the girls who works at the gym that I talk to actually found her boyfriend on Tinder and things have been going well.
Els Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Why should I have my time wasted? Why should I drive an hour just for that? How would she know that it was to be a dealbreaker to you, before she has even met you? Or that you were even looking for anything beyond a quick lay to begin with? Put it this way. How much do YOU disclose about yourself before you meet? Should a woman who desires men with few previous partners blame you for not telling her about your ONSs prior to the first date and causing her to 'waste her time' driving an hour to see you before finding that out? How about a woman who desires men who pay for dates? Or a woman who isn't cool with your desire to sleep in separate beds? Or a woman who isn't okay with you wanting her to continue to work full-time after having kids? Or a woman who isn't okay with how bitter you've turned about helping other people? Or any of your other threads... Are you 'wasting their time' by not disclosing all potential dealbreakers about you before any dates have even been arranged? 3
xxoo Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Put it this way. How much do YOU disclose about yourself before you meet? Good point. Put your feelings about women in their 20s with kids in your Tinder profile paragraph. That should sort it out. 6
waiting4u Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Single mums have the worst time dating. Likely she didn't bring her kids up immediately because you would have made a bunch of assumptions and immediately dismissed her. She wouldn't have even gotten a first date.
Michael91 Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 So trying to hoodwink a guy so he can get emotionally attached 1st. How nice. Of course since her experience has taught her that men, that otherwise would accept her, reject her when they find she has children. However, like with you it probably doesn't work since it is not something that can be hid long enough to get the man committed. Although I don't believe it is advisable, I'm not critical of her. And, men will do similar things. For example, if they have a very low paying job, the may answer in a way that makes them appear to have a better job. Or, if they have been arrested and placed on a sex-offender list for having sex at age 17 with their 15 year old girl-friend, the man is not going to reveal that because he knows, the moment he does, he is going to be rejected.
lollipopspot Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Why are people making excuses for a woman willfully hiding her offspring? Without more information, I don't think the reason why she didn't talk about the kid is clear. I think you are perhaps making some assumptions. 3
pickflicker Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Without more information, I don't think the reason why she didn't talk about the kid is clear. I think you are perhaps making some assumptions. Agreed. The OP is only highlighting his own insecurities this thread. We are not obliged to share intensely personal things with anyone before we go out on a date. Unless you get invested in the first 5 minutes (which I'm now starting to wonder if that's the actual problem), it's just a date. Let the poor girl decide when tell you certain things. 2
RonaldS Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 ^She specifically said she didnt want to just hook up. When a chick says, it says to me she wants a bf out of potential meetings. Huh? No. That's one of those things girls like to say so they don't feel trashy when they meet you and then hook up.
Author kaylan Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) How would she know that it was to be a dealbreaker to you, before she has even met you? Or that you were even looking for anything beyond a quick lay to begin with? Put it this way. How much do YOU disclose about yourself before you meet? Should a woman who desires men with few previous partners blame you for not telling her about your ONSs prior to the first date and causing her to 'waste her time' driving an hour to see you before finding that out? How about a woman who desires men who pay for dates? Or a woman who isn't cool with your desire to sleep in separate beds? Or a woman who isn't okay with you wanting her to continue to work full-time after having kids? Or a woman who isn't okay with how bitter you've turned about helping other people? Or any of your other threads... Are you 'wasting their time' by not disclosing all potential dealbreakers about you before any dates have even been arranged? I cant believe these posts. Its well known kids are deal breakers in dating, especially for young people in their 20s. For her to not be upfront about it before scheduling a date is very deliberate. To compare having kids to those other things you mentioned is ridiculous.Huh? No. That's one of those things girls like to say so they don't feel trashy when they meet you and then hook up. Meh, either way, she said what she said, and then withheld the kids info. Either way, Im not a chump nice guy who gets roped into things with single moms that like to omit important info.Of course since her experience has taught her that men, that otherwise would accept her, reject her when they find she has children. However, like with you it probably doesn't work since it is not something that can be hid long enough to get the man committed. Although I don't believe it is advisable, I'm not critical of her. And, men will do similar things. For example, if they have a very low paying job, the may answer in a way that makes them appear to have a better job. Or, if they have been arrested and placed on a sex-offender list for having sex at age 17 with their 15 year old girl-friend, the man is not going to reveal that because he knows, the moment he does, he is going to be rejected. Why are people comparing having children to these other silly things? Yikes. Id say the male equivalent is not being upfront with a woman that he has kids. Edited March 16, 2014 by kaylan
Els Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 I cant believe these posts. Its well known kids are deal breakers in dating, especially for young people in their 20s. For her to not be upfront about it before scheduling a date is very deliberate. To compare having kids to those other things you mentioned is ridiculous. Different people have different dealbreakers; there are people in their 20s who are fine with kids but find things on my list to be dealbreakers. The fact that you can't understand this and expect her to read your mind prior to having met you is quite worrisome. 1
Author kaylan Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Agreed. The OP is only highlighting his own insecurities this thread. We are not obliged to share intensely personal things with anyone before we go out on a date. Unless you get invested in the first 5 minutes (which I'm now starting to wonder if that's the actual problem), it's just a date. Let the poor girl decide when tell you certain things.Also, Theres nothing for me to be insecure about. I dont need to date women with baggage. I can do better. The only person insecure, is the person witholding important info. Im an open book to be honest...I wouldnt be ashamed of letting chicks know important info about me upfront. I dont want to waste time, and I dont want to waste someone elses.Different people have different dealbreakers; there are people in their 20s who are fine with kids but find things on my list to be dealbreakers. The fact that you can't understand this and expect her to read your mind prior to having met you is quite worrisome. Yes different people have different deal breakers....but its a well known fact that most American men in their 20s dont want to date single moms. And of the guys that do date them, many do so just for sex and wont realistically date them long term unless the guys have their own baggage. These women know this...so there is no mind reading required what so ever. To purposefully withhold that info is whats worrisome. My aversion to the situation isnt. Edited March 16, 2014 by kaylan
Els Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Also, Theres nothing for me to be insecure about. I dont need to date women with baggage. I can do better. The only person insecure, is the person witholding important info. Im an open book to be honest...I wouldnt be ashamed of letting chicks know important info about me upfront. I dont want to waste time, and I dont want to waste someone elses. Yes different people have different deal breakers....but its a well known fact that most American men in their 20s dont want to date single moms. So there is no mind reading required what so ever. To purposefully withhold that info is whats worrisome. My aversion to the situation isnt. Most women would also not be okay with sleeping in separate beds from their spouse all their lives. Do you have this up in your profile? No? Why are you purposefully withholding this info!?! I think you have quite different definitions of what 'up front' means compared to most people. Usually it means within the first few dates, not prior to date #1. 1
Author kaylan Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 Most women would also not be okay with sleeping in separate beds from their spouse all their lives. Do you have this up in your profile? No? Why are you purposefully withholding this info!?! I think you have quite different definitions of what 'up front' means compared to most people. Usually it means within the first few dates, not prior to date #1. Comparing sleeping in separate beds to having children? Yeah so similar. Youre trying WAY too hard now to excuse what this woman tried to do. And actually, when it comes to kids, most people want to know that right away. And most women online seem smart enough to state it in their profile, or in the first few conversations...that way they dont have to waste their own time on guys who arent cool with it.
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